flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 25, 2016 19:38:53 GMT
It's left such a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like an America that is great is one where there's a wall to keep Mexicans out, a registry so we can track Muslims, where it's okay to make fun of people with disabilities, where "I'm sure some of them are good people" but the rest of them are rapists and criminals, where it's OK not to pay the architect that designed a space for you that you loved but you paid too much for the building so you want to make sure to increase your profit margin, where you can make fun of women for how they look - because the person who says make America great again is the person who does that stuff. "Make America great again" in and of itself has so many misstatements in it. It both assumes that America isn't great now, and that it once was great - when in its many ways America has been tremendously great and has been unbelievably mediocre if not worse. For that reason "Make America better together" resonates with me so much more. Attorney General
I've about got my whole candidate/party list filled here. Who wants to be the finance guy?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 25, 2016 19:51:39 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great." Sock for President!! Ha! So sweet, but I prefer our president have political experience. SaveSave
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jul 25, 2016 19:57:28 GMT
to me it means a place where we make a product instead of importing everything. Where you can have a have a job your whole life and retire with a pension. Where you can work and your spouse can be at home and take care of kids and you can all make it (if that's what you want). Where health care is reasonable priced. Where you're not taxed to the nth degree.
I also acknowledge that this is not ever been an option for some people in this country.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 25, 2016 20:31:58 GMT
My answer was personal, as the question asked. Not sure why you can't accept that because of Trump, but OK I guess. I was responding to other's comments within the thread. Is that not allowed? I suppose I need to read updated thread rules. You quoted me. I responded. You've got your knickers in a twist over nothing.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Jul 25, 2016 21:53:40 GMT
Ha! So sweet, but I prefer our president have political experience. SaveSaveWhy? Apparently it's not necessary.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 25, 2016 22:31:01 GMT
The Great Carpezio : thank you for posting this link!
When Did Optimism Become Uncool?
As a 'glass-half-full' optimistic person who lives with a 'glass-mostly-empty' pessimist, I totally agree with the sentiments posted in the article, and I'm glad to see it's not 'just' me, but that there is real, valid evidence to back up my feelings. I think the 24-hour global news cycle and the push to be first with 'news' (that may or may not be true but is put out there anyway, for the sake of ratings) is mostly what fuels the mindset of 'oh, the horror of everything going horribly wrong in the world.'
Whether things are 'great' or not depends on your viewpoint so it's a meaningless phrase, to me-- there is good, and better, but nothing is ever perfect for everyone- or anyone.
(my BF and I are watching the HBO miniseries John Adams right now, and the same sorts of things were happening-- regarding political maneuvering, optimism and pessimism, etc. I mean-- even then.)
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 25, 2016 23:01:25 GMT
Still one of my favorite TV moments of all time. m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zabb3fxGTPkThe character agrees with Trump that the US is not the greatest country in the world, but he has a very different idea of what greatness is, I think. perfect
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 25, 2016 23:49:50 GMT
The Great Carpezio : thank you for posting this link!
When Did Optimism Become Uncool?
As a 'glass-half-full' optimistic person who lives with a 'glass-mostly-empty' pessimist, I totally agree with the sentiments posted in the article, and I'm glad to see it's not 'just' me, but that there is real, valid evidence to back up my feelings. I think the 24-hour global news cycle and the push to be first with 'news' (that may or may not be true but is put out there anyway, for the sake of ratings) is mostly what fuels the mindset of 'oh, the horror of everything going horribly wrong in the world.'
Whether things are 'great' or not depends on your viewpoint so it's a meaningless phrase, to me-- there is good, and better, but nothing is ever perfect for everyone- or anyone.
(my BF and I are watching the HBO miniseries John Adams right now, and the same sorts of things were happening-- regarding political maneuvering, optimism and pessimism, etc. I mean-- even then.) I really liked that miniseries
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 26, 2016 0:11:24 GMT
It's interesting how much of our experiences we bring to our comprehension. I've always seen it as "bring us back to a level where we are respected by the people who do business with us." I hear a foreign affairs slogan, a way of regaining our power in negotiating treaties and deals and in the way countries used to fear bringing the wrath of the U.S. military down on themselves. Our reputation is not what it used to be in those areas, and in terms of leadership, that's not a good thing. Mother Nature does not tolerate vacuums. If we aren't going to lead, another country or entity will, and right now ISIS is grappling for that role. But what is Trump's plan for doing that? I feel like he's a xenophobic isolationist. I feel like he wants to bully and not negotiate or cooperate. I'm worried he would do something to weaken NATO. I feel like his empty and hyperbolic threats will just piss combative world leaders off and offend countries we have been allies with for a really long time. What is it about Donald Trump's foreign policy that you like? (Honest question)
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Post by katieanna on Jul 26, 2016 0:47:58 GMT
Yeah, except in my mind one candidate at least knows how to drive a car. The other one just knows what a car looks like from the outside. SaveSaveUnfortunately, the one who knows how to drive the car is also stealing the car while ignoring the murder of the owner.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 26, 2016 1:22:23 GMT
Yeah, except in my mind one candidate at least knows how to drive a car. The other one just knows what a car looks like from the outside. SaveSaveUnfortunately, the one who knows how to drive the car is also stealing the car while ignoring the murder of the owner. Huh?
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 26, 2016 1:37:58 GMT
It's interesting how much of our experiences we bring to our comprehension. I totally agree. I was off on a weekend with my mom for my birthday this past weekend. Me, my family, my mom, my brother and his family, a couple of sisters etc. One thing she asked for the weekend was for there to be no political talk. Since it was all on her dime, we kids figured it was the least we could do. As we were are sitting around (we are SO totally the velcro family) I realized something-my mom is THE pollyanna. Those sayings about turning frowns upside down, making lemonade from lemons, about seeing the good in all people...those all could have been coined just for my mom. She taught that to all of us. We are all 'see the silver lining' kind of people. We spent a lot of time trying not to talk politics, but we did talk about this slogan. (We couldn't help ourselves.) None of us felt that Make America Great Again worked for us. None of us thought that America isn't great. Okay, sure there are some issues that need to be addressed, but over all? I thought we were pretty great to begin with. I just can't get behind the doom and gloom and the world is ending, the government is ushering in the apocalypse message that I feel Make America Great Again sends.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 26, 2016 1:39:57 GMT
Ha! So sweet, but I prefer our president have political experience. SaveSaveDoes PTO President count?? (signed, President, Vice President, Secretary, Room Mom and fundraising PTO Queen)
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Post by auntkelly on Jul 26, 2016 1:56:44 GMT
I think of one thing when I hear Trump say make America great again: JOBS!
When I was growing up I lived in a small town with lots of good manufacturing jobs. Very few people had college educations, but they could work at one of the three factories in town and make a good living and dream of an even better life for their kids. Because there were so many good manufacturing jobs, our small town of 9,000 supported two movie theatres, two ladies clothing stores, two children's' clothing stores, a small department store, a mens' clothing shop, several grocery stores and many other small businesses.
Now, there are absolutely no manufacturing jobs and virtually no small businesses. The best job that someone without a college degree can hope for is to work at Walmart or a fast food place for minimum wage. Most families are on some sort of public assistance. Drug abuse is a huge problem. My hometown was a great place to raise a family when I was growing up, but I wouldn't want to live there now.
Times were certainly not perfect when I was growing up. There was a lot of racism etc., but I personally don't think Donald Trump is talking about when he says "let's make America great again." I think he is talking about all Americans having an opportunity to work and make a decent living.
I'm not a big Trump supporter at all, but he does strike a chord with me when he talks about making America great again. I think many people have lost hope of ever rising above the poverty level.
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Post by ntsf on Jul 26, 2016 2:36:52 GMT
factories left america due to technology and productivity. the factories are not coming back the way they were. we need to retool education to provide more technical job training... you can't go back... when high school was enough for most people. how about free community college.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2016 3:14:13 GMT
factories left america due to technology and productivity. the factories are not coming back the way they were. we need to retool education to provide more technical job training... you can't go back... when high school was enough for most people. how about free community college. I agree with this. Education is key. No one needs to go to a 4-yr college if they don't want to/aren't prepared, but some kind of advanced education or job training is imperative to pull most people out of poverty. It's not that there aren't jobs, but we need to prepare young people for the jobs that exist. Most of those factory jobs aren't coming back. Neither is coal mining, no matter what Trump says.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 26, 2016 3:21:36 GMT
Ha! So sweet, but I prefer our president have political experience. SaveSaveDoes PTO President count?? (signed, President, Vice President, Secretary, Room Mom and fundraising PTO Queen) It's how started Sarah Palin started.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,930
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 26, 2016 3:44:14 GMT
factories left america due to technology and productivity. the factories are not coming back the way they were. we need to retool education to provide more technical job training... you can't go back... when high school was enough for most people. how about free community college. That's what I am saying too. I don't know what people think Trump Is going to do. I completely understand how some areas were decimated by the mass exodus of factory/low skill jobs. But they're not coming back. We live in a different world. We live in a technological and service oriented world---that can't be based on 19th and 20th century industrial standards. Just as education can't go back to skill and drill/readin' writin' rithmatic' 19th century models. I don't want to sound mean or uncaring for those who were affected by these changes, but if anyone really thinks Trump can bring back the industrial revolution in the 21st century, they are very very wrong and will be extremely disappointed. That America is gone. We need to work on ways to reduce student debt and place people in fields that are needed. We need to train for the rapidly changing and approaching future. Anyone who doesn't see that as a priority is either blind or feeding the masses platitudes. Take your pick.
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Post by elaine on Jul 26, 2016 3:52:51 GMT
That so many who have latched onto this slogan as said by Trump as something great and hopeful are the same people who lambasted Michelle Obama for saying that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of America during Obama's 2008 campaign, says worlds to me.
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Post by peasapie on Jul 26, 2016 3:58:50 GMT
Some ignorant fool who thinks Mayberry, RFD was a real place dreamed it up.
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Post by auntkelly on Jul 26, 2016 4:12:20 GMT
I think there is going to be a new industrial revolution in the 21st century and I don't think there is any reason why America can't be on the cutting edge of it.
People are always going to need things like shoes and cars and clothes. It's just a matter of how and where these things are made. The countries that train their workforce to stay on the cutting edge of technology and make things efficiently are going to prosper and the countries that don't keep up are going to fade.
I don't understand the attitude of "we'll never have factories in the US again." The world is changing so fast. A factory which is state of the art today will probably be obsolete in ten years. There is no reason why America can't keep up with the rest of the world.
I think that the past few decades have been about cheap labor. I personally think the future is going to be about skilled labor.
I'm not a defender of Donald Trump, but I don't understand why people think that when he talks about factories he is talking about 1950s type factories. I think he is envisioning state of the art factories.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 6:27:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2016 4:22:24 GMT
I was responding to other's comments within the thread. Is that not allowed? I suppose I need to read updated thread rules. You quoted me. I responded. You've got your knickers in a twist over nothing. My comments weren't a put down of why you are voting for him. It is MY reasons for having trouble supporting him. Just as I have trouble supporting Hillary over the email scandal and the whole DNC debacle. I think there are a lot of us scratching our heads wondering just what and who we are voting for and are trying to work through it. I just read a lot of snark in your reply.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2016 4:23:47 GMT
I think there is going to be a new industrial revolution in the 21st century and I don't think there is any reason why America can't be on the cutting edge of it. People are always going to need things like shoes and cars and clothes. It's just a matter of how and where these things are made. The countries that train their workforce to stay on the cutting edge of technology and make things efficiently are going to prosper and the countries that don't keep up are going to fade. I don't understand the attitude of "we'll never have factories in the US again." The world is changing so fast. A factory which is state of the art today will probably be obsolete in ten years. There is no reason why America can't keep up with the rest of the world. I think that the past few decades have been about cheap labor. I personally think the future is going to be about skilled labor. I'm not a defender of Donald Trump, but I don't understand why people think that when he talks about factories he is talking about 1950s type factories. I think he is envisioning state of the art factories. Those 21st-century factories are going to require more specialized skills than the assembly line of days gone by. I would love to see them sprouting up here. Let's train lots of workers! BUT that's not what Trump has said. He's going to bring back those factories that moved to Mexico. I still don't see any reason to think he's doing anything more than dog-whistling to all those people who are still waiting for the Ford factory down the road to reopen so they can go back to work.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 26, 2016 4:23:48 GMT
I don't understand the attitude of "we'll never have factories in the US again." The world is changing so fast. A factory which is state of the art today will probably be obsolete in ten years. There is no reason why America can't keep up with the rest of the world.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 26, 2016 4:29:33 GMT
You quoted me. I responded. You've got your knickers in a twist over nothing. My comments weren't a put down of why you are voting for him. It is MY reasons for having trouble supporting him. Just as I have trouble supporting Hillary over the email scandal and the whole DNC debacle. I think there are a lot of us scratching our heads wondering just what and who we are voting for and are trying to work through it. I just read a lot of snark in your reply. My comment had nothing to do with who I'm voting for or why. I answered what that slogan means to me. It's really just that simple.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 26, 2016 4:31:17 GMT
I think there is going to be a new industrial revolution in the 21st century and I don't think there is any reason why America can't be on the cutting edge of it. People are always going to need things like shoes and cars and clothes. It's just a matter of how and where these things are made. The countries that train their workforce to stay on the cutting edge of technology and make things efficiently are going to prosper and the countries that don't keep up are going to fade. I don't understand the attitude of "we'll never have factories in the US again." The world is changing so fast. A factory which is state of the art today will probably be obsolete in ten years. There is no reason why America can't keep up with the rest of the world. I think that the past few decades have been about cheap labor. I personally think the future is going to be about skilled labor. I'm not a defender of Donald Trump, but I don't understand why people think that when he talks about factories he is talking about 1950s type factories. I think he is envisioning state of the art factories. Here's the rub: Americans don't want to pay the higher prices that will come with the higher wages American workers need/want. Sure. Corporations are big baddies for moving their factories to Bangladesh, paying their workers poverty wages, making them work ridiculous hours in downright dangerous conditions. But we are contributing to the problem by demanding lower and lower prices. If we really want to make a difference, we can make a serious effort to only buy made in the USA or fair trade/ethical products. We need to put our $ where our mouths are....
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 26, 2016 4:34:59 GMT
I don't understand the attitude of "we'll never have factories in the US again." The world is changing so fast. A factory which is state of the art today will probably be obsolete in ten years. There is no reason why America can't keep up with the rest of the world. If we bring the factories in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc. to the US, they will not all be "state of the art." They are sweatshops. They pay poverty wages. They are dangerous. Some even employee child/slave labor. Companies use them because they are CHEAP. Because American consumers like CHEAP.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jul 26, 2016 4:37:16 GMT
If we bring the factories in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc. to the US, they will not all be "state of the art." They are sweatshops. They pay poverty wages. They are dangerous. Some even employee child/slave labor. Companies use them because they are CHEAP. Because American consumers like CHEAP. Not those factories. New factories. For new products. With new production methods.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jul 26, 2016 4:38:53 GMT
If we bring the factories in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc. to the US, they will not all be "state of the art." They are sweatshops. They pay poverty wages. They are dangerous. Some even employee child/slave labor. Companies use them because they are CHEAP. Because American consumers like CHEAP. Not those factories. New factories. For new products. With new production methods. But are we willing to pay the higher prices associated with higher wages, benefits, better conditions, etc.?
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Post by lucyg on Jul 26, 2016 4:39:58 GMT
If we bring the factories in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc. to the US, they will not all be "state of the art." They are sweatshops. They pay poverty wages. They are dangerous. Some even employee child/slave labor. Companies use them because they are CHEAP. Because American consumers like CHEAP. Not those factories. New factories. For new products. With new production methods. That would be fantastic. But that's not what he ever says. I swear he only talks to the lowest common denominator.
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