pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Jul 24, 2016 16:29:25 GMT
The Daily Show interviewed various people to ask - when was America great? What made America great?
What does it mean to make it great AGAIN - what things have to change, presumably back to the way they 'used to be' since the word AGAIN makes it clear that there are things that used to take place but no longer do, hence the loss of greatness.
This is not meant to be a discussion of the candidates or their platforms - there are plenty of other threads for that if you wish to do so. It's meant to be a discussion of what it means to be great and what we should do to get there.
Obviously, 'great' is going to mean different things to different people. If the majority of people agree that there are certain things that define greatness, perhaps we should work towards those things no matter who is in charge of the country.
I personally think it would be difficult to point to a particular time period as a definition of great, because for every thing that was better back then, there are going to be some things that are worse. For example, the whole "leave it to Beaver" idealized era - sure, it was great to have home-cooked meals and very few broken families. But there were likely a lot of cases where abusive relationships continued because the women couldn't leave because they were scared and didn't have any place to go. Maybe you love the 1970's and think that was the greatest era - because disco was great and pantsuits were amazing. But there was the hostage crisis and oil embargo and high mortgage rates to deal with it.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 24, 2016 16:34:21 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others.
I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great."
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SabrinaP
Pearl Clutcher
Busy Teacher Pea
Posts: 4,350
Location: Dallas Texas
Jun 26, 2014 12:16:22 GMT
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Post by SabrinaP on Jul 24, 2016 16:46:44 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great." I totally agree. The phrase makes it sound like we want to move backward. Our country has come a long way and we still have a long way to go! No going back, let's just keep making it better!
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Post by myboysnme on Jul 24, 2016 16:46:54 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great." That is a wonderful slogan and philosophy, Sock! Make America Great Again means it is no longer great, and it has always been great for some people (white men) and not great for others. And of course there are the women who always vote against their own interests. But we are only 100 years from when women got the vote so things do take time.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 24, 2016 16:49:23 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great." That is a wonderful slogan and philosophy, Sock! Make America Great Again means it is no longer great, and it has always been great for some people (white men) and not great for others. And of course there are the women who always vote against their own interests. But we are only 100 years from when women got the vote so things do take time. I'll be running in 2020. Hahaha! Me vs. Kanye. And you aren't really going to find any dirt on me, other than being the occasional bitch. SaveSave
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Post by lucyg on Jul 24, 2016 16:53:12 GMT
I think America is pretty great now, but there's always lots of room for improvement.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 24, 2016 16:54:00 GMT
I think the phrase is not accurate. For every period in history that was 'great' I can point instantly to 3 things that were wrong, not great, some even shameful. So the phrase is pretty meaningless to me.
And right now we have a crap ton of stuff to work on as it is so I'm not looking to dredge up old problems because I guarantee the positives won't come back with it.
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Post by myboysnme on Jul 24, 2016 16:54:48 GMT
That is a wonderful slogan and philosophy, Sock! Make America Great Again means it is no longer great, and it has always been great for some people (white men) and not great for others. And of course there are the women who always vote against their own interests. But we are only 100 years from when women got the vote so things do take time. I'll be running in 2020. Hahaha! Me vs. Kanye. And you aren't really going to find any dirt on me, other than being the occasional bitch. SaveSaveI can't run. I had too wild of a youth. It was the 70's afterall....................
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Post by hop2 on Jul 24, 2016 16:55:58 GMT
That is a wonderful slogan and philosophy, Sock! Make America Great Again means it is no longer great, and it has always been great for some people (white men) and not great for others. And of course there are the women who always vote against their own interests. But we are only 100 years from when women got the vote so things do take time. I'll be running in 2020. Hahaha! Me vs. Kanye. And you aren't really going to find any dirt on me, other than being the occasional bitch. SaveSaveCare to throw your hat out there now?
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 24, 2016 16:58:22 GMT
I'll be running in 2020. Hahaha! Me vs. Kanye. And you aren't really going to find any dirt on me, other than being the occasional bitch. SaveSaveCare to throw your hat out there now? Hahaha! Nah, I think 3rd party candidates will not be viable for some time. Maybe in 2024? That doesn't even sound like a real year. 2024. Omg, I'm in the future! SaveSave
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,930
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 24, 2016 17:01:58 GMT
I wrote this about six weeks ago because of some "America has lost its way" religious stuff people were posting on Facebook: America is not Lost Ok my fellow American friends. I've been reading a lot of doom and gloom about America on social media lately. I can't believe "I" am posting this. I sometimes have been a bit antiestablishment, been critical of the whitewashed American Dream, and I certainly am no jingoistic patriot. However, geez people. We have such an amazing , dynamic, innovative and diverse country that IS better in MOST ways than it was fifty or hundred years ago for most people. We won't get better if we continue to think America is "lost" or "losing all the time." I don't know about you, but I am pretty happy about living in this time and place. I have access to so much knowledge, resources and I get the bonus of sharing it (more) equally with my fellow human beings. We have problems. We have obstacles. We have inequality. We have violence. We also have control of what lenses we see our world though, and we need to turn away from the 24/7 bombardment of divisive and extremist voices yelling at us. Stop for a moment. Turn it all off. Look around you. Look at all you have---really look--material goods, loved ones, your belief system. Think of the access to information, the knowledge, the experiences you have had in this life. You are lucky. You are blessed. Don't dismiss all we have. Some of us complain about "entitlement" and the "pussification" of America, and yet, isn't that exactly what is being displayed with this constant whining about losing something you thought you had? Expecting the "others" to tow your line and believe what you believe? Isn't that entitlement? Let's focus on what we have. Let's practice what we preach to our children. Let's seek out our similarities rather than focus on differences. Let's be grateful for what we have rather than bemoan our losses (especially if those "losses" kept other people subjugated). I'm not advocating sticking our heads in the sand and ignoring our issues, but balance is imperative for healthy dialogue. I read most your articles. Maybe read this one for another point of view. mobile.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/opinion/sunday/when-did-optimism-become-uncool.html?referer=
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Post by M~ on Jul 24, 2016 17:09:11 GMT
When I hear that phrase I think that America has always been great; however, there's always room for improvement. Despite its huge societal problems, there are fundamental things about the U.S. that make people, including mine, want to come here. Those things don't wax and wane-they just get lost in all the bullshit.
From a political perspective-I think, "well, his or her great doesn't INCLUDE ME, the newcomer." Because the past doesn't include me.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jul 24, 2016 17:11:50 GMT
Meaningless to me.
I think it's already a great place. There is always room for improvement, but I think we have had a lot of advances and positive social changes in the last few years. We still need yo work on some things, so I think "make America better" would be an apt slogan.
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,751
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 24, 2016 17:15:02 GMT
Making American great again is a slogan that doesn't really work for me, either (a republican). To make America better I'd love to see less divisiveness. Less "us" vs "them" no matter what groups we are discussing - blacks and police, republicans and democrats, the 1% vs the 99%... Seems everything is groups against each other and it tears us down as a country and doesn't accomplish anything.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 24, 2016 17:58:19 GMT
I haven't read any responses.
I personally liked the 90s. The cold war was over, I didn't know about the terrorist threats, mass/school shootings weren't a big thing. The economy seemed to be going well, nobody seemed to really hate us too much (other than being filthy, egotistical americans), there didn't seem to be the racial tension daily (I know Rodney king was at the beginning of the 90s, but it seemed to not be as bad after that as it is now)... Except gay rights. Gay rights sucked in the 90s
Of course, that is a Colorado girls perspective, who knows what was going on in the world.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 6:20:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2016 18:11:53 GMT
It tells me the person who believes it struggles to accept change.
I do think the constant onslaught of negative information has an impact on the perception people have about how the world is travelling. I have known many people who have had digital detoxes for a set time period and can say without any exception that 100% of the people who did it always say it has a positive impact on their outlook.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 24, 2016 18:12:17 GMT
I haven't read any responses. I personally liked the 90s. The cold war was over, I didn't know about the terrorist threats, mass/school shootings weren't a big thing. The economy seemed to be going well, nobody seemed to really hate us too much (other than being filthy, egotistical americans), there didn't seem to be the racial tension daily (I know Rodney king was at the beginning of the 90s, but it seemed to not be as bad after that as it is now)... Except gay rights. Gay rights sucked in the 90s Of course, that is a Colorado girls perspective, who knows what was going on in the world. After twelve years of ignoring the environment people were starting to think about it again. At least some were...
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Post by papersilly on Jul 24, 2016 18:32:58 GMT
America has always been great to me. Those who don't think so should try living in a third world country, a war torn country, or any country without a democracy. It is not a perfect country but here we have freedoms and liberties that many nations will never have. As a woman, I can get an education, work, drive, dress as I please, and roam about freely. While we still have strides to make in pay and career advancement, I'd rather be a woman living here than a bunch of places around the world.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,930
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 24, 2016 18:38:10 GMT
I do think a lot has to do with the immediate bombardment of information. We are overloaded with voices, and the angry ones always rise to the top.
I think people who listen to right wing radio and read right wing websites all day long are literally feeding their brain anxiety and bitterness. The left doesn't have the same radio presence, but they do have a similar web presence.
Surrounding yourself with only one side vilifies the other side and creates mental stagnation.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jul 24, 2016 19:03:37 GMT
I saw one of those late night shows where someone said "america great again" was to send it back to the 1950's. It wasn't said in a good way, but in disparaging Trump's ideas.
When I hear that I think of attitudes not a place in time. Every place in time has it's struggles. I think of an attitude where people are proud, confident etc. General sense of unity.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Jul 24, 2016 19:03:49 GMT
I do not like the slogan at all. We are not "losers," and I find it deplorable that a serious presidential contender uses that language.
I believe that forming a more perfect union is a lifelong project, and that we should be working more on domestic tranquility and establishing justice than we currently are.
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Post by justkat on Jul 24, 2016 19:12:10 GMT
I'm originally from Bruxelles, Belgium. I have dual citizenship. It took a while and a lot of work to earn that citizenship. Personally I think America is pretty great and doesn't need to be made that way AGAIN. There is room for improvement, there always is. I don't know that there's any one time that was great. Looking back you can always point to something or other that was wrong or bad. For me it's less a time and more a way of life, for lack of a better phrasing. To me, what makes America great is: ~It's diversity. I've not been anywhere else where you can find all ages/religions/colours/nationalities/sexual orientations etc etc together. I love the fact that I can have friends from all these groups and we live within blocks of one another. ~The geographical diversity. I've not been anywhere else where you can find so many climates/cities/rural areas etc in one place. It amazes me that you can be in a super hot coastal area one moment, hop on a plane and be in a cold mountain area the next yet still be in the same country. Some states are as big or bigger than whole countries where I'm from! ~Women's rights. There is certainly room for improvement. But, compared to many places in this world (I've worked in the Sudan,traveled in the middle east), women in America can have an amazing life. Again there is room to improve but in America women are pretty much free to be who they are and to do their own thing. I'm not wording this well so hope you understand what I'm saying. ~Our government so far as the way things are done....the justice system (you get your day in court,innocent until proven guilty etc), the Constitution, people have the right to vote regardless of sex/religion etc, the system of checks and balances. ~Our freedom in general. Unlike many places, in America you can do pretty much as you please. Want to go to school and become a lawyer, you can. Want to work part time at Burger King, you can. Want to protest in the streets, sure you can do that too. You want to have 14 kids, have a purple house and travel in a refurbished school bus, no problem. You can even burn the flag and not go to jail for some crime against the government. I think that's pretty damn cool (not burning the flag but that you have the right to do so). So those are some things I think are great about America. I may not have worded them well and they can all be improved, nothing's perfect. I am glad I have dual citizenship and am proud that I am now an American.
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Post by darkchami on Jul 24, 2016 19:14:09 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I like, "Make America Better Together" instead. Because, we can always improve, but I think we need to do it together, inclusively, with respect for the diversity that is what makes this country "great." I think I love you. It couldn't be said any better.
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Post by dulcemama on Jul 24, 2016 19:18:34 GMT
Well, I take issue with the whole phrase, because I think it speaks to a nostalgia for times that were maybe great for some people (white men), but not great for others. I completely agree with this. Whenever I hear this phrase I think of the Langston Hughes Poem "Let America Be America Again" He speaks of the greatness of our ideals and although America has often failed in embodying those ideals, it is our continued striving to reach and fulfill them in the most complete way possible, for as many of our citizens as possible that makes America great. Let America Be America Again
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
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Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Jul 24, 2016 19:23:10 GMT
America is great but if we work together we could make it even better.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,978
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jul 24, 2016 19:39:45 GMT
In our neighborhood at the beach, someone with a sound front mansion had a "Make America Great Again" sign in the yard. I wondered which part of the American Dream is not working out for that individual?
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tincin
Drama Llama
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Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jul 24, 2016 19:45:44 GMT
Not a damned thing but I do think the people who believe it, are the people that Trump is campaigning directly to. When he says make America Great Again, I think he and many of his followers mean get them women back in the kitchen pregnant and barefoot, put them uppity coloreds back in their place and keep those damned Mexicans right where they belong, in Mexico. Seriously as offensive as that sounds to many of us, I have heard pretty much those exact words out of several Trump supporters.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 24, 2016 19:46:37 GMT
justkat I think you stated yourself very well. And I agree. We are very very fortunate to live in this great country.
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Jun 26, 2014 21:55:15 GMT
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Post by jayfab on Jul 24, 2016 19:49:43 GMT
Not a damned thing but I do think the people who believe it, are the people that Trump is campaigning directly to. When he says make America Great Again, I think he and many of his followers mean get them women back in the kitchen pregnant and barefoot, put them uppity coloreds back in their place and keep those damned Mexicans right where they belong, in Mexico. Seriously as offensive as that sounds to many of us, I have heard pretty much those exact words out of several Trump supporters. Yup. Unfortunately. I see remarks on my local tv's Facebook that make my jaw drop. It scares me that so many think like that and are walking amongst me. They reveal their true faces behind the computer screen. SaveSave
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Post by secondlife on Jul 24, 2016 19:56:30 GMT
It's left such a bad taste in my mouth. It feels like an America that is great is one where there's a wall to keep Mexicans out, a registry so we can track Muslims, where it's okay to make fun of people with disabilities, where "I'm sure some of them are good people" but the rest of them are rapists and criminals, where it's OK not to pay the architect that designed a space for you that you loved but you paid too much for the building so you want to make sure to increase your profit margin, where you can make fun of women for how they look - because the person who says make America great again is the person who does that stuff.
"Make America great again" in and of itself has so many misstatements in it. It both assumes that America isn't great now, and that it once was great - when in its many ways America has been tremendously great and has been unbelievably mediocre if not worse.
For that reason "Make America better together" resonates with me so much more.
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