peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Aug 18, 2016 17:19:07 GMT
Do they have to sign a behavior policy/contract to be in the Olympics? I'm wondering if they violated that by trashing the bathroom door and panicked.
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Post by brina on Aug 18, 2016 17:19:42 GMT
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Post by missmiss on Aug 18, 2016 17:21:23 GMT
It is an anonymous source but ESPN is reporting: A Brazilian police official has told The Associated Press that American swimmer Ryan Lochte fabricated a story about being robbed at gunpoint in Rio de Janeiro. The official said Lochte's teammates Jack Conger and Gunnar Bentz, who were pulled off a plane going back to the United States late Wednesday, told police that the robbery story had been fabricated. Of course they did. They want to leave the country and come back home. Jack Conger is 21 and Gunnar is 20. Could the story be false yep. No idea but there always 3 sides to a story and the truth is somewhere in there. Could Lochte influence them to lie. Of course he could. But I will come back to BODY PARTS washed up on the beach. news.vice.com/article/the-murder-rate-is-down-in-rio-but-its-cops-continue-to-kill |
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sueg
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Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Aug 18, 2016 17:24:13 GMT
Do they have to sign a behavior policy/contract to be in the Olympics? I'm wondering if they violated that by trashing the bathroom door and panicked. From the start, I thought this was a story to cover a behaviour violation. I thought maybe breached curfew, or something similar though, not criminal damage to property. |
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Post by kernriver on Aug 18, 2016 17:28:20 GMT
As more of the story comes out all I can think is 'what a bunch of frat boy dick heads"
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Aug 18, 2016 17:36:02 GMT
So the premise is what? Four guys colluded to report a crime that didn't happen to make the host country somehow look worse than it already does? To get their name in the news? To make themselves laughing stocks if the truth came out? As for stories not matching, eye witness/victim testimony is notoriously unreliable. They had been partying and were in shock. Frankly, Lochte has never struck me as overly observant or bright anyway (that might just be his persona). As for the video in which they are returning to the village and not acting like victims or people in fear of their lives, I haven't seen it. But I have seen a near-death adrenaline rush turn into giddiness at being alive and people laughing at what a close call they had. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt for now. I also question why, given all the agencies that supposedly interviewed them, it's this judge that seems to have the biggest issue. What's his angle? Brazil is notoriously rife with crocked cops and judges (and they were supposedly held up by cops) so pardon me for not buying he really is concerned about finding someone to prosecute here. I've heard before that Rio cabbies don't stop, even at lights, because they are likely to get robbed so I have issues with that part of the story as well. I also have concerns about a judge in a foreign country being able to essentially to hold a US citizen hostage on so little evidence. As of right now we only know him as a crime victim not a criminal (and what would the crime be, a false report? Also not worth potentially ruining his life or the shit storm of PR this nightmare could be for all of them). What a way to keep tourists from reporting crimes by making them fear that they will be the ones locked up. This has the makings of a bad movie right here. Frankly, no athletes shouldn have been allowed to leave the village and should've had their own security if doing so. I'm surprised we haven't heard more stories like this to be honest. At this point, even if Lochte and the others were to recant, I'd wonder if they were forced into it by law enforcement, to avoid further issues, or by the USOC and IOC that were so eager to deny it ever happened in the first place. Even if Lochte did make it up, a false report is not worthy of forcibly keeping someone in your country or seizing their passport to me. I hope this judge is as vigilant at tackling the serious crime, corruption, and cartels in Rio as he is at this. When you go to a foreign country, you have to follow the laws of that country. Imagine if someone came here and thought they did not have to cooperate with the police because they weren't American. You can't expect things to be like they are in the USA when you are in another country. It is ridiculous to expect that the athletes would not leave Olympic Park. Of course they are going to want to see the country they are competing in. I saw Simone Biles and Aly Raisman interviewed saying they were going to see the sites. I agree the whole thing seems odd, why they would need to lie about being held up? The video I saw did not show wallets but did show cell phones. Cell phones are easily traced so it makes sense to me that if there was a theft they might only want money. Perhaps the boys exaggerated what happened. Apparently Lochte admitted that he originally said that a gun was pointed at his head, and later recanted saying pointed in his direction. It is also reasonable to think the Brazilian police did not realize that this would become an international incident and when they found out that they were leaving the country wanted them to wait until they could get more information, better details. Of course once the media is on it, it became bigger than neccessary. I bet it will turn out to be nothing. I'm fully aware that one must follow the laws of the country they are visiting, thus why I am exceedingly careful where I travel. And certainly if someone is a suspect in a murder or robbery I would hope they would be thoroughly interviewed by authorities (which he claims didn't happen) and given the old, how can we reach you if we need to. I would hope the US would not actually go so far as to seize passports or remove people from planes over something like this. I don't find that to be an unreasonable expectation at all. Athletes have to know they are taking a chance in leaving the village. They must make their own risk assessments and arrangements. I would argue poor judgement was shown here. Frankly, if I was an athlete, you couldn't pay me to leave the village in a country with such a notorious reputation, whether it's been embellished by our media or not. At one time, weren't the villages supposed to have everything an athlete could need so they didn't have to leave unless they wanted to? As for not expecting things to be like they are in the states, of course not. Although I'd imagine many American tourists do. But the fact remains that I'm uncomfortable with the way this is being handled. As an athlete or parent of one, I would've gone to the host country with the expectation that there would be resources available for my use in a bad situation, either provided by the USOC, the IOC, or the American Consulate. A translator, a lawyer, something. I also have concerns about how the boxers accused of assaulting the maids was handled. This is a high profile case so I have to wonder how crazy the many we'll never know about are. It's not like they are the only people to be robbed during the games. There's no way all of them are making it up. So I'm back to wondering what's really going on and doubting we'll ever know. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 17:40:22 GMT
It's heartwarming to see the positive images some peas have of other countries.  |
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Post by missmiss on Aug 18, 2016 17:42:48 GMT
I know quite a few people who don't trust the police. I would not trust the police in Brazil. I also wouldn't have left the village but that is me. |
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smartypants71
Drama Llama
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Location: Houston, TX
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Post by smartypants71 on Aug 18, 2016 17:46:28 GMT
Do they have to sign a behavior policy/contract to be in the Olympics? I'm wondering if they violated that by trashing the bathroom door and panicked. I was wondering the same thing. Didn't the gymnast from the Netherlands get sent home for drinking? Although that just may be a policy for the Dutch team. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 18, 2016 17:48:44 GMT
I don't know if we will ever know the truth. I don't know that I trust that the swimmers are telling the truth about making it up any more than I trust that it actually happened. Seems like a far-fetched story to come up with for no apparently good reason. And both sides have more stake at this point to say that it didn't happen. The brazilians want to save face and the swimmers want to come home.
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peabay
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Aug 18, 2016 17:57:58 GMT
I don't know if we will ever know the truth. I don't know that I trust that the swimmers are telling the truth about making it up any more than I trust that it actually happened. Seems like a far-fetched story to come up with for no apparently good reason. And both sides have more stake at this point to say that it didn't happen. The brazilians want to save face and the swimmers want to come home. I have no idea if they have to sign a behavior contract or not, but I can envision a scenario where drunk kids come up with a story to cover their asses by appearing to be the victims. And the story got away from them. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 18, 2016 18:02:53 GMT
I don't know if we will ever know the truth. I don't know that I trust that the swimmers are telling the truth about making it up any more than I trust that it actually happened. Seems like a far-fetched story to come up with for no apparently good reason. And both sides have more stake at this point to say that it didn't happen. The brazilians want to save face and the swimmers want to come home. I have no idea if they have to sign a behavior contract or not, but I can envision a scenario where drunk kids come up with a story to cover their asses by appearing to be the victims. And the story got away from them. I didn't catch the whole story, but on the Olympic coverage last night, Matt Lauer said that Lochte told him that they didn't originally talk about the robbery because they weren't sure if they would have been in trouble for drinking, but later found out that since he (they?) were 21 they wouldn't be in trouble for drinking so they did end up taking about the robbery. So, according to that, they were trying to cover up the drinking by not reporting the robbery, not the other way around. Who knows. |
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Post by missmiss on Aug 18, 2016 18:04:08 GMT
I do not think the Police robbed them. I do think they were robbed. Lochte has been swimming internationally for over 16 years. He has been all over the world and nothing like this has happened. Could he and the others have screwed up and they are trying to cover it up? Yep But overall I bet they did get robbed. The two women were training last month on Guanabara Bay — the planned site for the 2016 Olympic sailing events — and had returned to dry land near the end of the day. “Our delightful walk back from the sailing club to the hotel turned fairly nasty when 2 guys wielding 7-inch knives ran at us, pushed us around, and grabbed everything we had,” the pair later wrote on Facebook, noting that even their Lycra sailing outfits were stolen. www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/01/16/high-crime-rate-complicates-rios-olympic-dreams.htmlIt could have happened. I would have said it didn't happen as well if I got pulled off a plane, detained, and questioned. Police are saying they can't find a witness so it didn't happen. Fine it didn't happen let me leave. I choose to believe they were robbed. Did the story get embellished? I would say it did. Why? I would say it was because Lochte was drunk off his ass. |
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Aug 18, 2016 18:05:11 GMT
I have no idea if they have to sign a behavior contract or not, but I can envision a scenario where drunk kids come up with a story to cover their asses by appearing to be the victims. And the story got away from them. I didn't catch the whole story, but on the Olympic coverage last night, Matt Lauer said that Lochte told him that they didn't originally talk about the robbery because they weren't sure if they would have been in trouble for drinking, but later found out that since he (they?) were 21 they wouldn't be in trouble for drinking so they did end up taking about the robbery. So, according to that, they were trying to cover up the drinking by not reporting the robbery, not the other way around. Who knows. I don't think they needed to cover up the drinking, but the vandalism of the bathroom door and generally disorderly behavior. But I agree with you, who knows. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 18:12:20 GMT
The two women were training last month on Guanabara Bay — the planned site for the 2016 Olympic sailing events — and had returned to dry land near the end of the day. “Our delightful walk back from the sailing club to the hotel turned fairly nasty when 2 guys wielding 7-inch knives ran at us, pushed us around, and grabbed everything we had,” the pair later wrote on Facebook, noting that even their Lycra sailing outfits were stolen. www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/01/16/high-crime-rate-complicates-rios-olympic-dreams.htmlThat didn't happen last month that happened in January last year. |
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Post by missmiss on Aug 18, 2016 18:17:07 GMT
So that means what? The police were able to stop all crime? I know when it happened in read the article.
They could be lying but I choose to believe they were robbed.
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PLurker
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Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Aug 18, 2016 18:21:04 GMT
I don't know what happen and we may or may not find out the whole story. Time will tell. I wasn't even going to read links but had time to kill.
From the ESPN story..."We have to understand that these kids came here to have fun. Let's give these kids a break," Andrada said. "Sometimes you make decisions you later regret. They had fun. They made a mistake. Life goes on."
The man (Lochte) is 32 years old. I know he may have had a sheltered/privileged life but He Is Thirty Two. At what age does the "stupid kid pass" become null and void?
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Post by missmiss on Aug 18, 2016 18:21:18 GMT
And maybe I am wrong and shouldn't trust them.
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Aug 18, 2016 18:23:19 GMT
If the story circulating now about the bathroom security guard has any truth to it all, I'd still say they were robbed, or at least they felt they were. I get that in some countries you don't ever want the cops involved because of rumored corruption or potential pitfalls being a tourist but I'm also concerned about someone being able to just demand payment of whatever amount they feel at that moment. Especially if they've notice it's an American (who many assume have lots of money) much less a possible Olympian. But given the situation I don't suppose you can exactly prove or disprove your innocence or demand an actual bill or to pay the owner directly so the guard doesn't have a chance to pocket it.
I'm trying to wrap my head around an attendant or security anywhere I go trying to demand money right then for something like that. Cops would definitely be involved.
I've said it before and I'll do so again, they were trashed so their perception was off (not an excuse so much as an explanation). Did they behave in the manner they should've? NO. I've long thought Lochte is a hot mess, and would buy the completely fabricated story easier if others weren't involved. But I can also see them being drug along against their better judgment or just not really remembering it clearly or being open to suggestion.
Frankly, even if the original story is completely true, in their minds if not in fact, I'd still say whatever it took to get myself the hell out of there if it were me. So I'll take any recanting with a grain of salt as well.
If the new story is truer, then the gas station got paid already. So what's left for them to be held for? Filing a false report? Still a tempest in a teapot. even if the judge can feel vindicated for showing up those stupid Americans, it doesn't address all the other crime there or cleanse his nations of its reputation, justly earned or not.
No matter the results, this kind of unfortunate crazy has a way of sticking around. I suspect it will follow those boys for a while.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 18:25:44 GMT
I don't know what happen and we may or may not find out the whole story. Time will tell. I wasn't even going to read links but had time to kill. From the ESPN story..."We have to understand that these kids came here to have fun. Let's give these kids a break," Andrada said. "Sometimes you make decisions you later regret. They had fun. They made a mistake. Life goes on." The man (Lochte) is 32 years old. I know he may have had a sheltered/privileged life but He Is Thirty Two. At what age does the "stupid kid pass" become null and void? Two of the swimmers are 20 and 21, so they are still college-aged "kids" IMO. Lochte is not, obviously, nor is the 26 year old swimmer. |
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by zella on Aug 18, 2016 18:29:20 GMT
I haven't read all the responses so probably someone else has said this. It could be they made up a story in order to stay out of trouble if they weren't supposed to be out and about or missed curfew.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 18, 2016 18:31:49 GMT
If the story circulating now about the bathroom security guard has any truth to it all, I'd still say they were robbed, or at least they felt they were. I get that in some countries you don't ever want the cops involved because of rumored corruption or potential pitfalls being a tourist but I'm also concerned about someone being able to just demand payment of whatever amount they feel at that moment. Especially if they've notice it's an American (who many assume have lots of money) much less a possible Olympian. But given the situation I don't suppose you can exactly prove or disprove your innocence or demand an actual bill or to pay the owner directly so the guard doesn't have a chance to pocket it. I'm trying to wrap my head around an attendant or security anywhere I go trying to demand money right then for something like that. Cops would definitely be involved. I've said it before and I'll do so again, they were trashed so their perception was off (not an excuse so much as an explanation). Did they behave in the manner they should've? NO. I've long thought Lochte is a hot mess, and would buy the completely fabricated story easier if others weren't involved. But I can also see them being drug along against their better judgment or just not really remembering it clearly or being open to suggestion. Frankly, even if the original story is completely true, in their minds if not in fact, I'd still say whatever it took to get myself the hell out of there if it were me. So I'll take any recanting with a grain of salt as well. If the new story is truer, then the gas station got paid already. So what's left for them to be held for? Filing a false report? Still a tempest in a teapot. even if the judge can feel vindicated for showing up those stupid Americans, it doesn't address all the other crime there or cleanse his nations of its reputation, justly earned or not. No matter the results, this kind of unfortunate crazy has a way of sticking around. I suspect it will follow those boys for a while. After watching the video that was just on cnn, I could see the gas station calling police or some other form of "security", and those people demanding the money that they had on them as a form of "justice". Over spring break there were some families from the twin cities who were vacationing in Mexico. More than one person was arrested and held for no apparent reason (these were the parents, and they were arrested at different times. They didn't know each other but while in the jail cell they got to know each other). It isn't that far fetched to me that something like the scenario I described could easily happen somewhere like Brazil, whether that destruction of the bathroom door happened or not. |
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Post by Meri-Lyn on Aug 18, 2016 18:32:21 GMT
If the story circulating now about the bathroom security guard has any truth to it all, I'd still say they were robbed, or at least they felt they were. I get that in some countries you don't ever want the cops involved because of rumored corruption or potential pitfalls being a tourist but I'm also concerned about someone being able to just demand payment of whatever amount they feel at that moment. Especially if they've notice it's an American (who many assume have lots of money) much less a possible Olympian. But given the situation I don't suppose you can exactly prove or disprove your innocence or demand an actual bill or to pay the owner directly so the guard doesn't have a chance to pocket it. I'm trying to wrap my head around an attendant or security anywhere I go trying to demand money right then for something like that. Cops would definitely be involved. I've said it before and I'll do so again, they were trashed so their perception was off (not an excuse so much as an explanation). Did they behave in the manner they should've? NO. I've long thought Lochte is a hot mess, and would buy the completely fabricated story easier if others weren't involved. But I can also see them being drug along against their better judgment or just not really remembering it clearly or being open to suggestion. Frankly, even if the original story is completely true, in their minds if not in fact, I'd still say whatever it took to get myself the hell out of there if it were me. So I'll take any recanting with a grain of salt as well. If the new story is truer, then the gas station got paid already. So what's left for them to be held for? Filing a false report? Still a tempest in a teapot. even if the judge can feel vindicated for showing up those stupid Americans, it doesn't address all the other crime there or cleanse his nations of its reputation, justly earned or not. No matter the results, this kind of unfortunate crazy has a way of sticking around. I suspect it will follow those boys for a while. Unfortunately, particularly in parts of Central and South America, that's how things worked. I've seen it a few times in Mexico. Pay us a few bucks, in this instance probably for the "damage" and you don't risk sitting in a Brazilian prison. Very sad, but true. My guess for them being detained is because there was a claim in the media that they were cops or someone disguised as cops who did the alleged robbery. This thing just did not ring right with me from the get-go. The more I am seeing and hearing, the more it seems like a bunch of drunks who got a little out of control. |
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 18, 2016 18:32:45 GMT
I do not think the Police robbed them. I do think they were robbed. Lochte has been swimming internationally for over 16 years. He has been all over the world and nothing like this has happened. Could he and the others have screwed up and they are trying to cover it up? Yep But overall I bet they did get robbed. The two women were training last month on Guanabara Bay — the planned site for the 2016 Olympic sailing events — and had returned to dry land near the end of the day. “Our delightful walk back from the sailing club to the hotel turned fairly nasty when 2 guys wielding 7-inch knives ran at us, pushed us around, and grabbed everything we had,” the pair later wrote on Facebook, noting that even their Lycra sailing outfits were stolen. www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/01/16/high-crime-rate-complicates-rios-olympic-dreams.htmlIt could have happened. I would have said it didn't happen as well if I got pulled off a plane, detained, and questioned. Police are saying they can't find a witness so it didn't happen. Fine it didn't happen let me leave. I choose to believe they were robbed. Did the story get embellished? I would say it did. Why? I would say it was because Lochte was drunk off his ass. So the possibility that they couldn't have just made up a story that seemed plausible and would get them the most sympathy, and had been getting a lot of media coverage until then, doesn't exist either? |
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PLurker
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Post by PLurker on Aug 18, 2016 18:38:30 GMT
I don't know what happen and we may or may not find out the whole story. Time will tell. I wasn't even going to read links but had time to kill. From the ESPN story..."We have to understand that these kids came here to have fun. Let's give these kids a break," Andrada said. "Sometimes you make decisions you later regret. They had fun. They made a mistake. Life goes on." The man (Lochte) is 32 years old. I know he may have had a sheltered/privileged life but He Is Thirty Two. At what age does the "stupid kid pass" become null and void? Two of the swimmers are 20 and 21, so they are still college-aged "kids" IMO. Lochte is not, obviously, nor is the 26 year old swimmer. I agree. I was referring to Lochte and also wondering if being "special" has stunted his maturity. Most his age have moved on from swimming and he has not. He still hangs with "the kids". Just a human nature observation. |
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Post by ladytrisha on Aug 18, 2016 18:50:24 GMT
As this goes on and on and on, ya gotta wonder how the 3 detained swimmers are looking at their leader Lochte now? He is gone with no plans to ever return to Rio; he got his name in the media as being the brave hero of the lot of them.
They got drunk, they vandalized, they broke curfew and had to have something good to explain where they were. This, unfortunately, was more of a Johnny Manziel move than a creative one. Lochte obviously craving attention decided he'd be the semi-hero of the group and have the cocked gun against his forehead. I'm sure somewhere Michael Phelps is going "and that is why I went in the right direction".
I'm sure US Swimming will be having lovely discussions about future adventures - or at least I hope they do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 18:50:51 GMT
So that means what? The police were able to stop all crime? I know when it happened in read the article. They could be lying but I choose to believe they were robbed. I'm not saying they weren't robbed but it didn't happen last month as was suggested in your post. No one is suggesting that crime is not rife in Brazil. The matter under discussion is why should the four of them lie about something that didn't happen just to save face at the expense of the reputation of another country. They could have avoided this totally if Lochte had acted responsibly to begin with and paid for the door that he damaged. At 30 years of age, drunk or not, you should be old enough to face the consequences of your actions. Unfortunately for him reporting a crime that did not take place has serious consequences in Brazil. But he's safely at home and has left his fellow team mates to face the music so that's OK I suppose! |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 18, 2016 18:52:13 GMT
Man this story just gets more and more inconsistent - this doesn't look like a fight or belligerent drunks like I had anticipated - and why is the one swimmer holding up his hands as he's brought off camera if there was no weapon shown? It almost looked like the security guard was showing a weapon when he approached the car, but it's hard to tell. I still say Brazil looks way worse by pulling the Americans off the plane and taking their passports. And the latest article says they didn't break down the door, but removed a poster from the wall?  www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVyQBlb5pR0 |
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Post by rmorgan22 on Aug 18, 2016 18:54:04 GMT
I agree! I think that in light of the poor sportsmanship of the Brazilian's, the pools turning green causing practices and events to be canceled and/or delayed, the info on the corrupt Brazilian official with the ticket scheme, Zika virus scares-- the Brazilian's are trying to save face!I don't think that's is the case at all and has nothing to do with all the other examples you've given.There doesn't seem to be any evidence that a crime took place. They reported to the world that they had been the victims of a crime allegedly by " two policemen". Further investigation by the federal police revealed that there was no evidence to this happening. There's CCTV's of them arriving at their accommodation three hours later than the time they told the police. According to some reports their wallets and mobile phones were clearly visible on the CCTV's. The investigation and the questioning at the airport, together with the alleged passport confiscation has now moved on to "the possible false communication of a crime" which I'm guessing is likely a crime in Brazil. They searched one of the swimmers room as part of this investigation to ascertain from his mobile phone exactly where he had been on the Sunday evening. If they have in fact made a false allegation I can see no reason that they shouldn't be detained while the police carry out their investigations. They can't seem to find the taxi driver either. What I can't understand is what possible reason did they have to make up such a story except perhaps for publicity or just for a joke that has backfired on them. Just because they're American it doesn't give them the right to make false allegations, if that is the case, against another country's police. Just because there is no evidence of a crime does not mean that a crime did not happen. You can't hold people against their will because there is no evidence. "God Bless America?" We may not be perfect but we are better than that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 19:06:25 GMT
I don't think that's is the case at all and has nothing to do with all the other examples you've given.There doesn't seem to be any evidence that a crime took place. They reported to the world that they had been the victims of a crime allegedly by " two policemen". Further investigation by the federal police revealed that there was no evidence to this happening. There's CCTV's of them arriving at their accommodation three hours later than the time they told the police. According to some reports their wallets and mobile phones were clearly visible on the CCTV's. The investigation and the questioning at the airport, together with the alleged passport confiscation has now moved on to "the possible false communication of a crime" which I'm guessing is likely a crime in Brazil. They searched one of the swimmers room as part of this investigation to ascertain from his mobile phone exactly where he had been on the Sunday evening. If they have in fact made a false allegation I can see no reason that they shouldn't be detained while the police carry out their investigations. They can't seem to find the taxi driver either. What I can't understand is what possible reason did they have to make up such a story except perhaps for publicity or just for a joke that has backfired on them. Just because they're American it doesn't give them the right to make false allegations, if that is the case, against another country's police. Just because there is no evidence of a crime does not mean that a crime did not happen. You can't hold people against their will because there is no evidence. "God Bless America?" We may not be perfect but we are better than that. You might want to slow your roll on that. This is but one of many examples of exactly that happening in the U.S.
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