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Post by chaosisapony on Sept 14, 2016 1:35:01 GMT
I haven't watched part 2 yet but in part 1 he comes off as being super creepy and socially awkward. Not necessarily surprising considering everything he went through as a kid.
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Sept 14, 2016 1:37:03 GMT
My son has Asperger's and is very socially awkward, but he isn't creepy like that. Even during the interviews as a child 18 months after, he laughs when asked about her death. Is all too weird, I agree.
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Post by annabella on Sept 14, 2016 1:37:57 GMT
They showed a picture of it. The pane of glass was broken out, like a big hole in the middle. I would think it would have made the house colder with it broken. There was a metal crate in front of the window so it wasn't immediately obvious as the window was underground, not ground level. Also, I assume their basement had a door to the stairs which they kept closed so it wouldn't affect temperature in the house. Yes, it is strange that John said he broke the window weeks ago when he didn't have a key but never fixed it. Why was it so urgent he enter the house anyway? Was he sneaking in after an affair? They had an open house to the public a week prior for their Christmas decorations, so strangers got in there and got a sense of the layout. I read a sketchy news article that said their housekeeper thought Patsy did it based on a number of things. When JonBenet was found her pajamas were removed and she was placed in other clothing. The clothes were something Patsy would have had to taken out of the dryer. I don't remember the other specifics, but there were a few things only someone very familiar with the family would notice.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 1:38:31 GMT
I have the two episodes recorded but have not watched them yet. I am not too trusting of this interview since attorney Lin Wood facilitated in setting up this interview. Wood is the Ramsey lawyer who threatens to sue anyone that publicly suggest any of the Ramsey family committed this crime. Dr. Phil also uses Wood. I have a feeling this three-part series is going to end in the same Ramsey spin. The A&E special was also backed by Ramsey and co. Dateline special that ran last Friday was very unbiased and I think is the best one yet to air. The CBS three-part miniseries will be the most informative of all the specials. I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey dealt the initial blow to the head with the Maglite flashlight. I believe she and John both assisted in the cover-up. I have been studying this case inside and out for the past six months. It took me about four months to come to this belief. Oh and to cover my bases, this is all simply my own opinion which I'm entitled to buy the Constitution of the United States.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 14, 2016 1:39:49 GMT
I don't think anyone has ever suggested that 9 year old Burke wrote the letter or acted alone. The speculation was his parent(s) covered up his killing her with a staged kidnapping. I haven't heard about the case for years - since the Boulder DA extradited that guy from Asia. I thought then there was wide discussion about the DNA being touch DNA, not blood or semen, so could have been transmitted by someone other than the killer. But that's been 10+ years.... the case was so mishandled initially, I don't think we'll ever see a conclusion. I know some people over the years have said Burke did it which is so incredibly stupid. I watched the first part of that series last week about the case. One of the things they pointed out was that the police had evidence that the ramseys were not guilty 2 *weeks* after Jon Benet died and hid it. I don't believe they did it for a second. There's never been a rationale explanation for the ransom note. It was just too bizarre- especially with the $118,000 ransom which just happened to be exactly John Ramsey's bonus. Stranger intruder doesn't make any sense either.
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Sept 14, 2016 1:40:21 GMT
Like I said, so many strange facts with this case. The more that was revealed, the more it looked like a huge cover up.
The note handwriting and the handwriting on the photo were very similar. It's not hard to fake different handwriting but certain patterns can't be faked. I think she wrote the ransom note as well.
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imsirius
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Post by imsirius on Sept 14, 2016 1:44:23 GMT
I've always thought she did it too. She was so controlled. Even at the funeral it looked forced.
If Burke knows it was Patsy, it would make sense to try to cover it up for her..it's his mother.
I truly believe Burke knows who did it.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 14, 2016 1:49:37 GMT
I have the two episodes recorded but have not watched them yet. I am not too trusting of this interview since attorney Lin Wood facilitated in setting up this interview. Wood is the Ramsey lawyer who threatens to sue anyone that publicly suggest any of the Ramsey family committed this crime. Dr. Phil also uses Wood. I have a feeling this three-part series is going to end in the same Ramsey spin. The A&E special was also backed by Ramsey and co. Dateline special that ran last Friday was very unbiased and I think is the best one yet to air. The CBS three-part miniseries will be the most informative of all the specials. I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey dealt the initial blow to the head with the Maglite flashlight. I believe she and John both assisted in the cover-up. I have been studying this case inside and out for the past six months. It took me about four months to come to this belief. Oh and to cover my bases, this is all simply my own opinion which I'm entitled to buy the Constitution of the United States. What do think was her motive? I just have a hard time seeing her killing her daughter. I know moms do this kind of thing, but I don't see it in this case. Today they talked about hearing another male voice after Patsy thought she had hung up from the 911 operator. I don't know, every time I think I know who might have done it, it seems like there is other evidence pointing another direction. We were in Boulder that Christmas and it was all over the news for months and months.
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Post by jovifan on Sept 14, 2016 2:00:37 GMT
When is the CBS special? I also watched the specials last weekend, it's all so interesting!!
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 2:25:21 GMT
I have the two episodes recorded but have not watched them yet. I am not too trusting of this interview since attorney Lin Wood facilitated in setting up this interview. Wood is the Ramsey lawyer who threatens to sue anyone that publicly suggest any of the Ramsey family committed this crime. Dr. Phil also uses Wood. I have a feeling this three-part series is going to end in the same Ramsey spin. The A&E special was also backed by Ramsey and co. Dateline special that ran last Friday was very unbiased and I think is the best one yet to air. The CBS three-part miniseries will be the most informative of all the specials. I am of the belief that Patsy Ramsey dealt the initial blow to the head with the Maglite flashlight. I believe she and John both assisted in the cover-up. I have been studying this case inside and out for the past six months. It took me about four months to come to this belief. Oh and to cover my bases, this is all simply my own opinion which I'm entitled to buy the Constitution of the United States. What do think was her motive? I just have a hard time seeing her killing her daughter. I know moms do this kind of thing, but I don't see it in this case. Today they talked about hearing another male voice after Patsy thought she had hung up from the 911 operator. I don't know, every time I think I know who might have done it, it seems like there is other evidence pointing another direction. We were in Boulder that Christmas and it was all over the news for months and months. Short answer is she got angry and just lost it with JB that night. There were so many factors that night that all came together. She was headed to Michigan on a quick trip or she did not want to go. She had to pack the whole family for the first trip and then they were flying home and then flying again to go on a cruise to celebrate her 40th birthday. Patsy's friends were all about to have an intervention with her about her obsession with her daughter and how the pageants were taking over their lives. Patsy was also heavily medicated and stressed the last couple days without her housekeeper there. It should be noted that it's been reported that many people said that she was a horrible housekeeper and extremely lazy. Both kids still at the age of 6 and 9 still wet the bed. There was feces everywhere in the house. I think that Patty was stressed and tired and there is evidence that JonBenet could have wet the bed, or her pants, that evening. Since no one knows for sure there is a possibility that Patsy got mad and shoved JonBenet and she hit her head on the tub. There were many reports of Patsy bringing JonBenet into the bathroom after an accident and screams were heard from the bathroom. I could go on and on with this. I hope I've touched on enough of the big points to give you a picture of what may have been going on with Patsy. This information is from friends, family and Patsy herself. I am on my phone and I'm speaking this text, so if the grammar isn't correct, my apologies!
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 14, 2016 2:32:36 GMT
What do think was her motive? I just have a hard time seeing her killing her daughter. I know moms do this kind of thing, but I don't see it in this case. Today they talked about hearing another male voice after Patsy thought she had hung up from the 911 operator. I don't know, every time I think I know who might have done it, it seems like there is other evidence pointing another direction. We were in Boulder that Christmas and it was all over the news for months and months. Short answer is she got angry and just lost it with JB that night. There were so many factors that night that all came together. She was headed to Michigan on a quick trip or she did not want to go. She had to pack the whole family for the first trip and then they were flying home and then flying again to go on a cruise to celebrate her 40th birthday. Patsy's friends were all about to have an intervention with her about her obsession with her daughter and how the pageants were taking over their lives. Patsy was also heavily medicated and stressed the last couple days without her housekeeper there. It should be noted that it's been reported that many people said that she was a horrible housekeeper and extremely lazy. Both kids still at the age of 6 and 9 still wet the bed. There was feces everywhere in the house. I think that Patty was stressed and tired and there is evidence that JonBenet could have wet the bed, or her pants, that evening. Since no one knows for sure there is a possibility that Patsy got mad and shoved JonBenet and she hit her head on the tub. There were many reports of Patsy bringing JonBenet into the bathroom after an accident and screams were heard from the bathroom. I could go on and on with this. I hope I've touched on enough of the big points to give you a picture of what may have been going on with Patsy. This information is from friends, family and Patsy herself. I am on my phone and I'm speaking this text, so if the grammar isn't correct, my apologies! Thanks for your ideas. Some of those things are new to me. Never heard anything about the feces. The medication could do a number on anyone, but oh, to kill your precious little girl? That is the thing that gets me. I will be anxious to see the third show. Seems like the police did an OJ job at the time and so many things were messed up.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 2:37:29 GMT
When is the CBS special? I also watched the specials last weekend, it's all so interesting!! It is a 2 part series on CBS. The first part airs Sunday (September 18) from 8:30-10:30pmEST. The second part airs Monday ( September 19 ) from 9:00-11:00pm EST, also on CBS.
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Post by Really Red on Sept 14, 2016 2:50:35 GMT
I lived in CO during the case and my girls were born Christmas Day - right before it happened. The Boulder police were completely inept. Completely. They should have been fired from the force. They made mistake after mistake after mistake. Imagine allowing the family to search their own house!
I am of the opinion it was an accident and they were covering it up. But whether or not that is true, the whole family paid heavily for the crime.
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Post by jovifan on Sept 14, 2016 3:00:59 GMT
When is the CBS special? I also watched the specials last weekend, it's all so interesting!! It is a 2 part series on CBS. The first part airs Sunday (September 18) from 8:30-10:30pmEST. The second part airs Monday ( September 19 ) from 9:00-11:00pm EST, also on CBS. Thank you!
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 3:05:08 GMT
I lived in CO during the case and my girls were born Christmas Day - right before it happened. The Boulder police were completely inept. Completely. They should have been fired from the force. They made mistake after mistake after mistake. Imagine allowing the family to search their own house! I am of the opinion it was an accident and they were covering it up. But whether or not that is true, the whole family paid heavily for the crime. They definitely made mistakes. I placed a lot of the blame though on the District Attorney's Office. They were telling the place from the very beginning to treat the Ramseys as victims. Alex Hunter did not want to try this case.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 3:38:10 GMT
Ruthless People could be part of the inspiration for the ransom note.
Here is the text for the ridiculous ransom note:
Mr. Ramsey,
Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our possession. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.
You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attaché to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a earlier pick-up of your daughter.
Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc.. will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with Law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. Follow our instructions and you stand 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scutiny as well as the authorities. Don’t try to grow a brain John. You are not the only Fat Cat around so don’t think that killing will be difficult. Don’t underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!
Victory! S.B.T.C.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 3:49:38 GMT
Short answer is she got angry and just lost it with JB that night. There were so many factors that night that all came together. She was headed to Michigan on a quick trip or she did not want to go. She had to pack the whole family for the first trip and then they were flying home and then flying again to go on a cruise to celebrate her 40th birthday. Patsy's friends were all about to have an intervention with her about her obsession with her daughter and how the pageants were taking over their lives. Patsy was also heavily medicated and stressed the last couple days without her housekeeper there. It should be noted that it's been reported that many people said that she was a horrible housekeeper and extremely lazy. Both kids still at the age of 6 and 9 still wet the bed. There was feces everywhere in the house. I think that Patty was stressed and tired and there is evidence that JonBenet could have wet the bed, or her pants, that evening. Since no one knows for sure there is a possibility that Patsy got mad and shoved JonBenet and she hit her head on the tub. There were many reports of Patsy bringing JonBenet into the bathroom after an accident and screams were heard from the bathroom. I could go on and on with this. I hope I've touched on enough of the big points to give you a picture of what may have been going on with Patsy. This information is from friends, family and Patsy herself. I am on my phone and I'm speaking this text, so if the grammar isn't correct, my apologies! Thanks for your ideas. Some of those things are new to me. Never heard anything about the feces. The medication could do a number on anyone, but oh, to kill your precious little girl? That is the thing that gets me. I will be anxious to see the third show. Seems like the police did an OJ job at the time and so many things were messed up. I truly do not think that the first initial blow was premeditated. I do feel though that she and John went to great lengths to cover up what happened. Patsy loved her daughter, but not enough to allow justice for her.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by inkedup on Sept 14, 2016 3:54:18 GMT
Something has always felt so off to me about this family and this case. The amount of consideration the Ramseys were shown, even after their dead daughter was found in their hard to access basement, is puzzling. Well, not really so puzzling when you consider the fact that big money affords one a different standard of justice than the rest of us receive.
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Post by debmast on Sept 14, 2016 12:18:16 GMT
That whole case is strange. I don't see how an intruder could have done everything that was done to that child PLUS written a 2-1/2 page ransom note using paper and pen from the house. All of that would have taken a long time, and one would think the perpetrator would not have stayed in the home where 3 people were sleeping for that length of time. I don't think there will ever be justice in this case - too much bungling by the police, too much evasion on the part of the family, too much cover up by the DA's office. They went out to a Christmas party that evening so if someone was watching the house, he could have entered while they were gone and sat there all night waiting for them. A flashlight that didn't belong to the Ramseys was found on the kitchen counter. They had a basement window that was broken and they demonstrated that a tall man could fit through it. I think because there was a note, they didn't think the child was still in the house and that's why they didn't search and invited people over. What is unanswered for me is that when police arrive Patsy was still wearing the evening dress from the night before. Was she up all night or did she pull it off the floor? The autopsy found pineapple in JonBenet's stomach, there was a bowl of pineapple sitting on the kitchen counter, but Patsy claimed she put JonBenet right to bed when they got home and had no knowledge of JonBenet eating pineapple. The police checked the Christmas party and pineapple was not served there. Was Patsy so distraught that she couldn't remember that detail? The pineapple was pivotal in determining the time of JonBenet's death. I had always thought it was an accident that the parents were covering up. However, I don't think they could use a stun gun on their own child and strangle her. The Ramseys stayed married for 10 years after that, I would think if one killed the child their marriage would dissolve eventually. That's why I don't believe the theory that the father was molesting JonBenet which lead to the bedwetting. I watched the first episode of one of the several part-ers (I think TLC?) - anyway, pretty sure they said Patsy's DNA/fingerprints were found on the bowl of pineapple. They showed an interview with her where they told her that and she was really pretty nasty with them. They also said she (Patsy) was wearing clothes from the night before. But not an evening dress - black pants and a sweater. She said she took them off the night before and got up at 5 a.m. and put them back on. They also seemed to think she was up all night. They mentioned it seemed odd for her "social status" to redress in clothes from the night before. She claimed she did it often.
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Post by Layce on Sept 14, 2016 12:23:58 GMT
I hope I can locate some of the more well-researched specials online somewhere to see what people make of all this 20 years post-homicide. A note about The Note.  I remember back in the 90s Patsy Ramsey released a Christmas Letter to the general public that was posted online. It had chilling similarities to the ransom note and was finally taken down. I am referring to certain usage and phrases that were unique enough to give one pause. I have always been of the opinion that there is sufficient hard evidence as well as some circumstantial evidence to build a solid case against Patsy Ramsey in the homicide of her daughter. The homicide itself was accidental, but the crime scene staging was quite deliberate. Talk about overkill. Good grief. I so wanted to see her prosecuted but it just wasn't meant to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 12:38:29 GMT
I don't have a clue what the answer is for this mystery. What I do find really distressing is the overwhelming consistency by many (here and elsewhere) to immediate use terms like weird, crazy, strange, off, etc.
Having a weird, strange, off kid? These words stand out like flashing neon lights...that could be your kid sitting there.
How about giving him the benefit of the doubt? Like others have said, consider the so called "life" he's had since the murder. It was his first interview ever. It's with a high profile, world renown interviewer. How comfortable would you be surround by all that equipment and personnel, answering questions about the worst thing that can happen to any family? How would your body betray you?
I wish something new could be learned, somehow, someway so this could be put to rest forever.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 12:38:47 GMT
I hope I can locate some of the more well-researched specials online somewhere to see what people make of all this 20 years post-homicide. A note about The Note.  I remember back in the 90s Patsy Ramsey released a Christmas Letter to the general public that was posted online. It had chilling similarities to the ransom note and was finally taken down. I am referring to certain usage and phrases that were unique enough to give one pause. I have always been of the opinion that there is sufficient hard evidence as well as some circumstantial evidence to build a solid case against Patsy Ramsey in the homicide of her daughter. The homicide itself was accidental, but the crime scene staging was quite deliberate. Talk about overkill. Good grief. I so wanted to see her prosecuted but it just wasn't meant to be. And hence Nedra and Patsy used fat cat often, about John Good southern common sense was said to John, by Patsy. Since he wasn't southern it was always a joke from wife to husband.
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Post by picotjo on Sept 14, 2016 13:30:57 GMT
If Patsy "lost it" and hit JB and accidently killed her,then tried to cover it up,how do you explain the claw marks around JB's neck that have been identified as JB trying to loosen the garote? That says she was alive when in the basement room? I just can't imagine choking my child to death.
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Post by BoilerUp! on Sept 14, 2016 13:33:46 GMT
Why does he smile all the time? It's a strange little grin. I'm in the creepy camp. Something is off with him. He is very strange and his answers are weird. Phil asked him why he stayed in bed after all the chaos and he says " I'm not a worrier" He was 9 and his parents were freaking out with police in the home and he goes back to sleep? Things don't add up....still. I haven't seen part 2 yet. I only got to see the first half hour of today's show. That smile on him is kind of creepy. He seems socially awkward, but that could be because he lived a sheltered life after the murder. i found something odd in yesterday's show. I evidently didn't see the show that Dr.Phil did with John Ramsey. What I found odd was that John said the broken basement window was from him breaking in because he forgot his key. I can see that happening, but wouldn't you have had that window fixed? It's a million dollar house and it's winter in CO. I would have thought they would have had the window fixed immediately. John said that he had broken the window 6 months prior and DID think that they had it repaired, but apparently they didn't. He even mentioned that they didn't go into the basement often, so that is why it went unnoticed.
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oh yvonne
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Post by oh yvonne on Sept 14, 2016 13:36:32 GMT
I watched one of the specials the other night - i think it was on TLC? Anyway, the way they told it, the DAs office along with a detective from Colorado City pretty much ruled out any of the Ramsays. Yes, they did. And the DNA evidence points to someone else. There were so many blatantly false accusations laid against this poor family. They suffered tremendously.
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Post by Layce on Sept 14, 2016 13:37:41 GMT
If Patsy "lost it" and hit JB and accidently killed her,then tried to cover it up,how do you explain the claw marks around JB's neck that have been identified as JB trying to loosen the garote? That says she was alive when in the basement room? I just can't imagine choking my child to death. Sounds like hearsay to me.. there were no claw marks around her neck. Just some marks from the rope. Same with that feces comment. All over the house? Come on. That is not part of any of the evidence.
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Post by StacyAngel on Sept 14, 2016 13:56:49 GMT
If Patsy "lost it" and hit JB and accidently killed her,then tried to cover it up,how do you explain the claw marks around JB's neck that have been identified as JB trying to loosen the garote? That says she was alive when in the basement room? I just can't imagine choking my child to death. The head wound would eventually kill the child in 45 minutes to 2 hours. She was not dead when the "garrote" was attached. Also a slight correction, there were no claw marks. You can Google the autopsy photos and see for yourself. I don't feel comfortable posting them here.
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Post by debmast on Sept 14, 2016 14:15:34 GMT
I hope I can locate some of the more well-researched specials online somewhere to see what people make of all this 20 years post-homicide. A note about The Note.  I remember back in the 90s Patsy Ramsey released a Christmas Letter to the general public that was posted online. It had chilling similarities to the ransom note and was finally taken down. I am referring to certain usage and phrases that were unique enough to give one pause. I have always been of the opinion that there is sufficient hard evidence as well as some circumstantial evidence to build a solid case against Patsy Ramsey in the homicide of her daughter. The homicide itself was accidental, but the crime scene staging was quite deliberate. Talk about overkill. Good grief. I so wanted to see her prosecuted but it just wasn't meant to be. In the special I was watching, they mention to Patsy something about the writing looking similar to hers (I think the letter "N" - but I may be incorrect). She dismissed that as preposterous too. Sadly, I think we may never know for sure what happened to this little girl. If it was her parents, it breaks my heart that she was killed by the people who should have been loving and protecting her.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2016 14:38:19 GMT
I don't understand why he is doing these interviews...
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oh yvonne
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Post by oh yvonne on Sept 14, 2016 14:54:14 GMT
If Patsy "lost it" and hit JB and accidently killed her,then tried to cover it up,how do you explain the claw marks around JB's neck that have been identified as JB trying to loosen the garote? That says she was alive when in the basement room? I just can't imagine choking my child to death. Sounds like hearsay to me.. there were no claw marks around her neck. Just some marks from the rope. Same with that feces comment. All over the house? Come on. That is not part of any of the evidence. Forensics experts recently concluded they were claw marks. She had stun gun marks on her body (stunned in her bed), then she was carried down to the basement and the garrote was fashioned out of a paintbrush. She had little claw marks above the rope marks. Poor baby died a horrible death. There were no feces anywhere, what a crazy story. OMG.
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