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Post by refugeepea on Oct 10, 2016 21:39:32 GMT
As a mother of two kids with disabilities, one severe, the moment Trump did the following, I vowed to do everything I could to ensure he NOT be elected. Any person who can walk up to a podium with a microphone and an audience and mock someone who is disabled is, in my mind, the lowest of the low.
And I truly don't understand how anyone can vote for someone who does that. If someone has so little respect for the disabled, it is no surprise that he mocks and is condescending to other groups of people who struggle for equal treatment in our society. All the subsequent offensive statements against latinos, African Americans, Muslims, women, etc., just further cement, for me, his complete and total lack of character. Look in the dictionary and you'll find Donald Trump's picture under the definition of "lack of moral compass." x1000 as the mother of two kids with disabilities; one severe.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Oct 10, 2016 21:47:50 GMT
Well isn't this a giant shitshow for the OP? I wager she thought she'd saunter in here with her sanctimonious bullshit and get pat after pat after pat on the back for making such enlightened plea for the masses. Could've worked if she'd gotten off her fucking high horse and remembered to not insult non-Christians and those who are not like her. Newsflash: Christians get a bad name from people who post shit like this. I can't take the religion seriously when bullshit like "only Christians have a moral compass and know how to do right" is posted. Why? Because I can't believe someone could be so narrow-minded and not have the ability to use logical and critical thinking when musing about stuff like whether people have a moral compass or not. And really, I don't understand how anyone can vote for Trump. I really don't. How anyone can support that vile, vulgar man is beyond my understanding. There is nothing redeeming about him yet people are planning to vote for him because he claims to be "conservative". Blows my mind. I really don't get it. And at this rate, if he does get voted in, the shit show of proportions we have yet to see will be exactly what those voters deserve. I feel bad for the people who don't vote for him if he gets elected. For one, he's going to destroy the country and two, he's going to be out for revenge. Unless of course, that's the kind of government people actually want, but I have a hard time imagining that. But stranger shit has happened in this election... every time Trump opens his mouth. For the record, I've been against this type of nonsense from Trump and other reality "stars" since it began. I haven't watched the Adam Levigne video in question, I'm not a huge fan of his music. That said, if that's what the theme of the video is then yes, it's wrong. I can be morally "right" without being Christian. It's called not being an asshole and doing right by others. You know that whole "do others as you would want done to you". Yeah, you don't need to be Christian to follow that. Most people don't need religion to be good people. But it sure seems like the OP doesn't believe that. Even with her acrobatics in backtracking. You misquoted me. Don't use quotes unless it's actually accurate. What you quoted is not what I said, nor is it what I meant. I was talking about our current culture and how far it has sunk in regards to decency and the way that women are treated, used, exploited, and thought of. Peas notwithstanding, I was talking about a much bigger picture, mainly Hollywood and what is accepted as entertainment these days, as well as mainstream media and social media. I still think it's a good discussion to have, and a worthwhile one. I think it's a positive step in the right direction to talk about it, and as a society question if it's time to say enough already. Women deserve better. I didn't misquote you, I paraphrased. Mostly, because I was too lazy to copy and paste the actual quote. I said exactly the same thing you did. You said that non-Christians do not have a moral compass. It may not be what you meant now that you realize how far you shoved your foot in your mouth, but it is exactly what you said.
Yes, women deserve better. Way better than the shit that's a societal "norm" for women. Way better than allowing a vile misogynist than Trump being allowed anywhere near the right to govern or create legislation. He shouldn't have been allowed to get where he is, yet oddly, the "conservative right" many of whom claim to be "Christian" allowed just that. So explain to me how your hands are clean as a Christian but mine are not because I refuse to believe a religion that constantly undermines and works against the rights of women? I have to hope that if there really is a god, that he's pretty pissed off right now at how people from the "Christian Right" have royally fucked things up.
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Post by secondlife on Oct 10, 2016 22:03:04 GMT
Well isn't this a giant shitshow for the OP? I wager she thought she'd saunter in here with her sanctimonious bullshit and get pat after pat after pat on the back for making such enlightened plea for the masses. Could've worked if she'd gotten off her fucking high horse and remembered to not insult non-Christians and those who are not like her. Newsflash: Christians get a bad name from people who post shit like this. I can't take the religion seriously when bullshit like "only Christians have a moral compass and know how to do right" is posted. Why? Because I can't believe someone could be so narrow-minded and not have the ability to use logical and critical thinking when musing about stuff like whether people have a moral compass or not. And really, I don't understand how anyone can vote for Trump. I really don't. How anyone can support that vile, vulgar man is beyond my understanding. There is nothing redeeming about him yet people are planning to vote for him because he claims to be "conservative". Blows my mind. I really don't get it. And at this rate, if he does get voted in, the shit show of proportions we have yet to see will be exactly what those voters deserve. I feel bad for the people who don't vote for him if he gets elected. For one, he's going to destroy the country and two, he's going to be out for revenge. Unless of course, that's the kind of government people actually want, but I have a hard time imagining that. But stranger shit has happened in this election... every time Trump opens his mouth. For the record, I've been against this type of nonsense from Trump and other reality "stars" since it began. I haven't watched the Adam Levigne video in question, I'm not a huge fan of his music. That said, if that's what the theme of the video is then yes, it's wrong. I can be morally "right" without being Christian. It's called not being an asshole and doing right by others. You know that whole "do others as you would want done to you". Yeah, you don't need to be Christian to follow that. Most people don't need religion to be good people. But it sure seems like the OP doesn't believe that. Even with her acrobatics in backtracking. You misquoted me. Don't use quotes unless it's actually accurate. What you quoted is not what I said, nor is it what I meant. I was talking about our current culture and how far it has sunk in regards to decency and the way that women are treated, used, exploited, and thought of. Peas notwithstanding, I was talking about a much bigger picture, mainly Hollywood and what is accepted as entertainment these days, as well as mainstream media and social media. I still think it's a good discussion to have, and a worthwhile one. I think it's a positive step in the right direction to talk about it, and as a society question if it's time to say enough already. Women deserve better. You mean like Trump himself stating that he would go into the Miss Universe dressing room to inspect the ladies undressed because, well, he can? "Well, I'll tell you the funniest is that before a show, I'll go backstage and everyone's getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know, I'm inspecting because I want to make sure that everything is good. ... You know, the dresses. "Is everyone okay?" You know, they're standing there with no clothes. "Is everybody okay?" And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that. But no, I've been very good." I agree that women deserve better, but let's be honest about what that looks like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 22:06:15 GMT
It makes no logical sense why anyone who would be outraged (rightfully so) about people dismissing/making excuses for Trump's vile and disgusting things he said about forcing himself on women, would then turn around and dismiss/make excuses for Clinton allegedly actually DOING those things. I also don't understand why the deplorables Trump surrounds himself with and who support him show that he should not be allowed to lead this country, but when equally deplorable people surround Hillary, support her or are married to her, those inexplicably don't count in showing she shouldn't be allowed to lead the country. The difference surely is, one is a voluntary confession and the latter is an allegation made by third party accusers and as yet not proven. @mytnice I have to admit I'm at a loss to understand that if what you keep insisting is true, because you keep bringing it up. why has there not been a full investigation and a court trial in respect of these allegations against BC? It is alleged, not proven in a court room. Some have allegedly been threatened to keep quiet, at least one by Hillary herself -personally, face to face, one has gone to court and Clinton paid her $850,000 to make it go away, his behavior shows it's quite possibly true including a 24 year old video showing some of that behavior, the numerous allegations made against him (that alone was enough to indict Cosby in the court of Pea opinion), including some in college before he was anyone those alleged "Right wing conspiracists" thought to pay attention to and because Hillary herself said we should believe them. All makes it just as plausible to include in the conversation as the allegations against Trump have been.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 22:11:09 GMT
I don't agree with everything in the OP but I do agree with the general premise that the level of shock and outrage is somewhat hypocritical. It makes no logical sense why anyone who would be outraged (rightfully so) about people dismissing/making excuses for Trump's vile and disgusting things he said about forcing himself on women, would then turn around and dismiss/make excuses for Clinton allegedly actually DOING those things. I also don't understand why the deplorables Trump surrounds himself with and who support him show that he should not be allowed to lead this country, but when equally deplorable people surround Hillary, support her or are married to her, those inexplicably don't count in showing she shouldn't be allowed to lead the country. Do you know who Ken Starr is? In case you don't he was the special prosecutor assigned to bring down Bill Clinton when he was president. In the course of his investigation he interviewed one of the accusers. It was the one with the video telling her story. Anyway after interviewing her Ken Starr decided not to use her testimony in his goal of bringing down the Clintons. If Ken Starr could have proven that Bill Clinton forced himself/raped the accuser do you not think he would have used that testimony to sink Clinton? The best he could do was perjury which the majority of Americans thought was bogus. A proven sexual assault would have been a slam dunk. There were enough stories floating around about Bill and his women during the Ken Starr period that if there were any teeth to them Starr would have been all over them in a New York minute. We know who Hillary was talking about with her deplorables comment. White nationalists. They are a specific group of people that decent folks would find deplorable I would think. But what group of "equally deplorable" folks surround Hillary? Got a specific name for the group.
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Post by elaine on Oct 10, 2016 22:33:03 GMT
With such an extreme politician (and I use the term loosely) I just don't know how the man can be separated from the platform. The kicker is that Trump doesn't have a platform. Given his political track record, how anyone can seriously believe that he'll uphold the Republican platform is mind-boggling. He's not a Republican. He's not even a conservative. He can't even give a direct answer on domestic or foreign policy without resorting to rants on evil Hillary/Bill/Obama. If he did manage to get elected, does anyone actually believe that he'd suddenly morph into a level-headed, knowledgeable, coherent President? Really, seriously? I'm willing to bet a Starbucks gift card that he hasn't read the whole official Republican Platform, nor memorized it enough to explain it fully to anyone who asks. And if he somehow does get elected, after the first of his many departures from the platform he will respond to his party thusly when they complain: "but I didn't promise that! I only care about the promises I made. I didn't write that Platform and am not going to follow it."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 22:48:32 GMT
The difference surely is, one is a voluntary confession and the latter is an allegation made by third party accusers and as yet not proven. @mytnice I have to admit I'm at a loss to understand that if what you keep insisting is true, because you keep bringing it up. why has there not been a full investigation and a court trial in respect of these allegations against BC? It is alleged, not proven in a court room. Some have allegedly been threatened to keep quiet, at least one by Hillary herself -personally, face to face, one has gone to court and Clinton paid her $850,000 to make it go away, his behavior shows it's quite possibly true including a 24 year old video showing some of that behavior, the numerous allegations made against him (that alone was enough to indict Cosby in the court of Pea opinion), including some in college before he was anyone those alleged "Right wing conspiracists" thought to pay attention to and because Hillary herself said we should believe them. All makes it just as plausible to include in the conversation as the allegations against Trump have been. We'll have to agree to disagree particularly on the bold part, not plausible at all. They are not allegations against Trump. He's actually admitted it himself in that tape that was released.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Oct 10, 2016 22:49:32 GMT
I don't agree with everything in the OP but I do agree with the general premise that the level of shock and outrage is somewhat hypocritical. It makes no logical sense why anyone who would be outraged (rightfully so) about people dismissing/making excuses for Trump's vile and disgusting things he said about forcing himself on women, would then turn around and dismiss/make excuses for Clinton allegedly actually DOING those things. I also don't understand why the deplorables Trump surrounds himself with and who support him show that he should not be allowed to lead this country, but when equally deplorable people surround Hillary, support her or are married to her, those inexplicably don't count in showing she shouldn't be allowed to lead the country. This feels futile, but okay. I absolutely do not dismiss or make any excuses for Bill Clinton. I voted for him in 1992 and again in 1996, and when he left office in 2001, my fondest hope was that he would go to some backwoods Arkansas shack and I would never have to see his face again. Sadly, that was not to be, and although I do think he has accomplished some good things in the past 15 years, I still see him first and foremost as a sexual harasser bordering on predatory. And I blamed Hillary for some of that for a very long time. I don't think that was fair of me, but I felt like she had enabled him to an extent. Life has taught me more about marriage and how tremendously complicated they can be, and I feel more now that they have worked out a lot of things and that he has changed his ways. I certainly hope this is the case and choose to believe it because as far as I know his nose has been clean for years. I have not read anything credible (to me) about Hillary's response to the various women in Bill's extramarital life. There are so many outrageous stories about her from the past 25 years, I take most of it as hearsay at this point. I'm not sure what sort of script a repeatedly-wronged woman in the public eye is supposed to be following, and we've seen that any response from her is always misinterpreted and vilified, even choosing to stay with her partner and preserve their marriage. The deplorables who surround Trump, the ones that Hillary was talking about and that I think most of us are talking about, are people like white supremacists and "lesser" racists. People who advocate violence and harassment against others who disagree with them. People who want to grab power back from women and minorities through both legal and illegal means. It is impossible to deny that these types of people have flocked to Trump like a savior. I am not familiar with which people surrounding Hillary you feel are deplorable, besides Bill. I think Bill has been very wrong and immoral in his treatment of women, but I do not feel he is a racist or someone who wants to hurt or intimidate people. And I can't think of any other groups who support Hillary who would fit that definition, either. I'm sure you will enlighten me on this. I don't care for Bill Clinton, I would never vote for him again, but I think his wife deserves to be judged on her own merits or lack thereof. I would hate to be held responsible for my husband's sins and otherwise poor decisions. Save
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:05:59 GMT
The kicker is that Trump doesn't have a platform. Given his political track record, how anyone can seriously believe that he'll uphold the Republican platform is mind-boggling. He's not a Republican. He's not even a conservative. He can't even give a direct answer on domestic or foreign policy without resorting to rants on evil Hillary/Bill/Obama. If he did manage to get elected, does anyone actually believe that he'd suddenly morph into a level-headed, knowledgeable, coherent President? Really, seriously? I'm a conservative, and I can tell you unequivocally, Donald Trump is not. You're right that he's not a Republican, either. Not really. He's switched party allegiances (or claimed no party) 6 times since 1987. Five of those times since 1999. He was a Democrat through the GW Bush years, switching to Independent in 2009 and Republican in 2012. That tells me he has no convictions about conservative principles at all. Or convictions about anything. Because of his lack of conviction, there is absolutely NO guarantee that Trump would appoint a conservative to the Supreme Court. He will say anything to get elected. He has even claimed to be born again. And this might sound judgy, but I've seen no real evidence of it in his life since that claim was made. Jesus said you would know His followers by their actions, not their words. I am dismayed by the support he's getting among Christians. Truly dismayed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:12:40 GMT
@nicksmom, when did he claim to be born-again? I agree with everything you said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:19:12 GMT
@nicksmom , when did he claim to be born-again? I agree with everything you said. To be fair, I'm not sure Trump said so himself. James Dobson, an evangelical leader, said he was told by another evangelical that Trump made a decision to give his life to Christ. Dobson later said he couldn't know Trump's heart, but he trusted the person who informed him of Trump's decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:26:12 GMT
@nicksmom , when did he claim to be born-again? I agree with everything you said. To be fair, I'm not sure Trump said so himself. James Dobson, an evangelical leader, said he was told by another evangelical that Trump made a decision to give his life to Christ. Dobson later said he couldn't know Trump's heart, but he trusted the person who informed him of Trump's decision. Oh boy. James Dobson. That tells me everything I need to know. Save
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:27:57 GMT
It is alleged, not proven in a court room. Some have allegedly been threatened to keep quiet, at least one by Hillary herself -personally, face to face, one has gone to court and Clinton paid her $850,000 to make it go away, his behavior shows it's quite possibly true including a 24 year old video showing some of that behavior, the numerous allegations made against him (that alone was enough to indict Cosby in the court of Pea opinion), including some in college before he was anyone those alleged "Right wing conspiracists" thought to pay attention to and because Hillary herself said we should believe them. All makes it just as plausible to include in the conversation as the allegations against Trump have been. We'll have to agree to disagree particularly on the bold part, not plausible at all. They are not allegations against Trump. He's actually admitted it himself in that tape that was released. There are allegations against Trump that are as you said about Clinton "are not yet proven". So I'll stand by my statement: It makes no logical sense why anyone who would be outraged (rightfully so) about people dismissing/making excuses for Trump's vile and disgusting things he said about forcing himself on women, would then turn around and dismiss/make excuses for Clinton allegedly actually DOING those things.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 10, 2016 23:28:00 GMT
2peaornot2peaI can't speak for HRC or Mrs. Cosby, but only for myself. I may give my dh the benefit of the doubt the first time he was accused of assault, but after that all bets would be off. I could never stay with someone accused of that multiple times. No.way. And I sure wouldn't be supporting them in a bid for political office, and I cannot respect any woman who would. Trumps been accused of the same.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:29:36 GMT
It makes no logical sense why anyone who would be outraged (rightfully so) about people dismissing/making excuses for Trump's vile and disgusting things he said about forcing himself on women, would then turn around and dismiss/make excuses for Clinton allegedly actually DOING those things. I also don't understand why the deplorables Trump surrounds himself with and who support him show that he should not be allowed to lead this country, but when equally deplorable people surround Hillary, support her or are married to her, those inexplicably don't count in showing she shouldn't be allowed to lead the country. This feels futile, but okay. I absolutely do not dismiss or make any excuses for Bill Clinton. I voted for him in 1992 and again in 1996, and when he left office in 2001, my fondest hope was that he would go to some backwoods Arkansas shack and I would never have to see his face again. Sadly, that was not to be, and although I do think he has accomplished some good things in the past 15 years, I still see him first and foremost as a sexual harasser bordering on predatory. And I blamed Hillary for some of that for a very long time. I don't think that was fair of me, but I felt like she had enabled him to an extent. Life has taught me more about marriage and how tremendously complicated they can be, and I feel more now that they have worked out a lot of things and that he has changed his ways. I certainly hope this is the case and choose to believe it because as far as I know his nose has been clean for years. I have not read anything credible (to me) about Hillary's response to the various women in Bill's extramarital life. There are so many outrageous stories about her from the past 25 years, I take most of it as hearsay at this point. I'm not sure what sort of script a repeatedly-wronged woman in the public eye is supposed to be following, and we've seen that any response from her is always misinterpreted and vilified, even choosing to stay with her partner and preserve their marriage. The deplorables who surround Trump, the ones that Hillary was talking about and that I think most of us are talking about, are people like white supremacists and "lesser" racists. People who advocate violence and harassment against others who disagree with them. People who want to grab power back from women and minorities through both legal and illegal means. It is impossible to deny that these types of people have flocked to Trump like a savior. I am not familiar with which people surrounding Hillary you feel are deplorable, besides Bill. I think Bill has been very wrong and immoral in his treatment of women, but I do not feel he is a racist or someone who wants to hurt or intimidate people. And I can't think of any other groups who support Hillary who would fit that definition, either. I'm sure you will enlighten me on this. I don't care for Bill Clinton, I would never vote for him again, but I think his wife deserves to be judged on her own merits or lack thereof. I would hate to be held responsible for my husband's sins and otherwise poor decisions. SaveI do appreciate your taking the time to explain your thoughts on the matter in such a thoughtful way, although that could have gone a lot further without the dig at the beginning. While you may not make the same excuses for him that many Hillary supporters do and condemn Trump supporters for, there are plenty that do. Hillary has also been publicly supported by white supremacists and an America hating father of a terrorist, her top aide was an editor for a magazine that opposes women's rights, her mentors are questionable and alarming to many, but those are dismissed with caveats, while giving no such leeway to Trumps people. I don't care that they don't give that leeway to Trump, just noting the hypocrisy. Thank you for your thoughts.
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Post by jillonthehill on Oct 10, 2016 23:34:54 GMT
Yes!!!!!! I thought for sure that when he made fun of the reporter with the disability that it would be the end of him. I honestly don't understand it either. Couldn't agree more with this statement. A friend of mine defended Trump and his "locker room" talk by saying Bill did far worse things. I asked her what does that have to do with Hillary running for president? She just shrugged her shoulders.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 10, 2016 23:38:28 GMT
The kicker is that Trump doesn't have a platform. Given his political track record, how anyone can seriously believe that he'll uphold the Republican platform is mind-boggling. He's not a Republican. He's not even a conservative. He can't even give a direct answer on domestic or foreign policy without resorting to rants on evil Hillary/Bill/Obama. If he did manage to get elected, does anyone actually believe that he'd suddenly morph into a level-headed, knowledgeable, coherent President? Really, seriously? I'm a conservative, and I can tell you unequivocally, Donald Trump is not. You're right that he's not a Republican, either. Not really. He's switched party allegiances (or claimed no party) 6 times since 1987. Five of those times since 1999. He was a Democrat through the GW Bush years, switching to Independent in 2009 and Republican in 2012. That tells me he has no convictions about conservative principles at all. Or convictions about anything. I don't disagree with your commentary on Donald Trump - but as someone who has switched party affiliation quite a few times, including registering as an independent. I don't agree at all that switching your party affiliation multiple times means you don't have any convictions about anything. Sometimes it means you have strong convictions that don't fit neatly into either party. I'm not claiming that's the case with Donald Trump - but just something to consider in your broad generalization of party switchers.
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Post by secondlife on Oct 10, 2016 23:40:45 GMT
@nicksmom, when did he claim to be born-again? I agree with everything you said. It was like June or July and James Dobson said he personally knew the person who led Trump to Jesus. I would so utterly respect a conversion but am unaware of Teump having spoken out loud about his own faith. He said once he had never asked for forgiveness because he didn't need it, but that's the extent of what I've seen out of the horses mouth.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 10, 2016 23:40:57 GMT
With such an extreme politician (and I use the term loosely) I just don't know how the man can be separated from the platform. The kicker is that Trump doesn't have a platform. Given his political track record, how anyone can seriously believe that he'll uphold the Republican platform is mind-boggling. He's not a Republican. He's not even a conservative. He can't even give a direct answer on domestic or foreign policy without resorting to rants on evil Hillary/Bill/Obama. If he did manage to get elected, does anyone actually believe that he'd suddenly morph into a level-headed, knowledgeable, coherent President? Really, seriously? Yes, this! We were talking about it at work, and that was the subject--how can anyone believe him when he lied most of the time, has no concept of how the government actually works? Not to mention that he stated last night he does take advantage of loopholes in tax code to avoid taxes--you really thing he's going to close that up??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:50:46 GMT
@nicksmom , when did he claim to be born-again? I agree with everything you said. It was like June or July and James Dobson said he personally knew the person who led Trump to Jesus. I would so utterly respect a conversion but am unaware of Teump having spoken out loud about his own faith. He said once he had never asked for forgiveness because he didn't need it, but that's the extent of what I've seen out of the horses mouth. Now that sounds like something Trump would say. And it's also why I'd be suspect of any supposed conversion. He has always seemed to be pretty dismissive of religion in the past, and a sudden born again conversion during the election would be extremely hinky in my view. Save
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2016 23:59:12 GMT
Some of us have issues with Mr. Trump's behavior and comments from the moment he started his run for the presidency. I have felt all along that his comments about everyone he considers 'other' have made me incredibly uncomfortable and I have not felt that he has the temperament (to borrow his phrase) to enter into any kind of relationship with foreign leaders. I was horrified by his remarks about Sen. McCain and his subsequent remarks about the military do not lead me to believe that he will use our military wisely. His view that women who have had abortions should be 'punished' in some form made me ill. I could go on-mocking a man with disabilities, saying disparaging things about a family (who happens to be Muslims) who lost their son fighting for the US, grabbing a woman's pussy as if he owns it because he is a 'star'...I may not be the best Christian by some people's definition, but I have absolute faith that my moral compass is pointing in the right direction. Hopefully by now it's clear I'm not a Trump supporter and there are beyond plenty of things that he says and does that there is no defense for. But people don't understand why anyone would defend him and it's statements like this (and there are beyond plenty of similar statements) it's statements like this that get them to speak up. Trump did not say women should be punished for having an abortion. He was answering the question posed to him that IF abortions were illegal. Most people would agree if you break a law there is some form of consequence for doing so. That is the question he was answering.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 0:05:23 GMT
I don't disagree with your commentary on Donald Trump - but as someone who has switched party affiliation quite a few times, including registering as an independent. I don't agree at all that switching your party affiliation multiple times means you don't have any convictions about anything. Sometimes it means you have strong convictions that don't fit neatly into either party. I'm not claiming that's the case with Donald Trump - but just something to consider in your broad generalization of party switchers. I totally get what you're saying as I am currently party-less and am sorry that I came across as making a broad generalization. In this case, though, I was only referring to Trump. He became an Independent, for example, to preserve his ability to run for president if he didn't like who the Republicans chose in 2012. When he decided not to run, he re-registered as a Republican. He's nothing if not opportunistic.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 11, 2016 0:06:23 GMT
Jodster, with all due respect, you mentioned on another thread that you didn't listen to political chatter but only voted based on platform, and that is your prerogative. Please know that "the left's" dislike of Trump goes far beyond this latest issue. He has insulted Mexicans, Muslims, African Americans, war veterans and a gold star family. He has shown a complete lack of understanding of how government works, how military strategy works and indeed how the office of the president works. That's all before he ever got around to insulting and degrading women or threatening his political opponent on TV tonight. It's a little condescending of you to say that you don't listen to speeches or chatter and then come out swinging without any idea of the context under which most of us are operating. I suspect that if the worst thing you could say about Trump was his attitude toward women, he'd raise less ire, but he has repeatedly shown such contemptuous behavior and unfitness for the office that even his own party can't stand him. Many principled and conservative Christians I know are choosing to vote for McMillan or write someone in, or just sit this one out, rather than vote for Trump. This is not just about "the left" and our "condescending crap." As a mother of two kids with disabilities, one severe, the moment Trump did the following, I vowed to do everything I could to ensure he NOT be elected. Any person who can walk up to a podium with a microphone and an audience and mock someone who is disabled is, in my mind, the lowest of the low. And I truly don't understand how anyone can vote for someone who does that. If someone has so little respect for the disabled, it is no surprise that he mocks and is condescending to other groups of people who struggle for equal treatment in our society. All the subsequent offensive statements against latinos, African Americans, Muslims, women, etc., just further cement, for me, his complete and total lack of character. Look in the dictionary and you'll find Donald Trump's picture under the definition of "lack of moral compass." Thank you so much for this. This is a very personal issue for me; it's hard to even post about it because just thinking about what he did makes me want to start crying. Until he did that, I thought Trump was a run-of-the-mill con man. He's not, he's a monster. That kind of cruelty and dehumanization has no place in civilized society, let alone the Oval Office. If Hillary ever did the same, I'd never vote for her. Ever. Fuck the platform.
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,299
Jun 25, 2014 19:53:37 GMT
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Post by Mystie on Oct 11, 2016 0:11:45 GMT
This feels futile, but okay. I absolutely do not dismiss or make any excuses for Bill Clinton. I voted for him in 1992 and again in 1996, and when he left office in 2001, my fondest hope was that he would go to some backwoods Arkansas shack and I would never have to see his face again. Sadly, that was not to be, and although I do think he has accomplished some good things in the past 15 years, I still see him first and foremost as a sexual harasser bordering on predatory. And I blamed Hillary for some of that for a very long time. I don't think that was fair of me, but I felt like she had enabled him to an extent. Life has taught me more about marriage and how tremendously complicated they can be, and I feel more now that they have worked out a lot of things and that he has changed his ways. I certainly hope this is the case and choose to believe it because as far as I know his nose has been clean for years. I have not read anything credible (to me) about Hillary's response to the various women in Bill's extramarital life. There are so many outrageous stories about her from the past 25 years, I take most of it as hearsay at this point. I'm not sure what sort of script a repeatedly-wronged woman in the public eye is supposed to be following, and we've seen that any response from her is always misinterpreted and vilified, even choosing to stay with her partner and preserve their marriage. The deplorables who surround Trump, the ones that Hillary was talking about and that I think most of us are talking about, are people like white supremacists and "lesser" racists. People who advocate violence and harassment against others who disagree with them. People who want to grab power back from women and minorities through both legal and illegal means. It is impossible to deny that these types of people have flocked to Trump like a savior. I am not familiar with which people surrounding Hillary you feel are deplorable, besides Bill. I think Bill has been very wrong and immoral in his treatment of women, but I do not feel he is a racist or someone who wants to hurt or intimidate people. And I can't think of any other groups who support Hillary who would fit that definition, either. I'm sure you will enlighten me on this. I don't care for Bill Clinton, I would never vote for him again, but I think his wife deserves to be judged on her own merits or lack thereof. I would hate to be held responsible for my husband's sins and otherwise poor decisions. SaveI do appreciate your taking the time to explain your thoughts on the matter in such a thoughtful way, although that could have gone a lot further without the dig at the beginning. While you may not make the same excuses for him that many Hillary supporters do and condemn Trump supporters for, there are plenty that do. Hillary has also been publicly supported by white supremacists and an America hating father of a terrorist, her top aide was an editor for a magazine that opposes women's rights, her mentors are questionable and alarming to many, but those are dismissed with caveats, while giving no such leeway to Trumps people. I don't care that they don't give that leeway to Trump, just noting the hypocrisy. Thank you for your thoughts. That was actually not a personal dig, just an expression of exhaustion. I don't think either camp can communicate effectively with the other at this point, and I have for the most part completely stopped trying, so that was just a mental sigh as I decided to give it a shot and summon my thoughts. I am not familiar with who you are referring to as Hillary's top aide, you'd have to give me a name on that. Neither am I familiar with the terrorist's father, although it does ring a faint bell. As to white supremacists, my argument is that you can create an environment welcoming to cockroaches or you can create an environment that discourages them. I feel that Trump has done the former and I would certainly imagine there are far more cockroaches supporting him than Hillary. Neither has he denounced them in any way that I am aware of despite their large presence. I would hope and expect that Hillary would wholeheartedly denounce such people if they were brought to her attention. I have no idea who her questionable or alarming mentors would be, so I can't speak to that. SaveSave
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Post by tara on Oct 11, 2016 0:15:51 GMT
Jodster, with all due respect, you mentioned on another thread that you didn't listen to political chatter but only voted based on platform, and that is your prerogative. Please know that "the left's" dislike of Trump goes far beyond this latest issue. He has insulted Mexicans, Muslims, African Americans, war veterans and a gold star family. He has shown a complete lack of understanding of how government works, how military strategy works and indeed how the office of the president works. That's all before he ever got around to insulting and degrading women or threatening his political opponent on TV tonight. It's a little condescending of you to say that you don't listen to speeches or chatter and then come out swinging without any idea of the context under which most of us are operating. I suspect that if the worst thing you could say about Trump was his attitude toward women, he'd raise less ire, but he has repeatedly shown such contemptuous behavior and unfitness for the office that even his own party can't stand him. Many principled and conservative Christians I know are choosing to vote for McMillan or write someone in, or just sit this one out, rather than vote for Trump. This is not just about "the left" and our "condescending crap." As a mother of two kids with disabilities, one severe, the moment Trump did the following, I vowed to do everything I could to ensure he NOT be elected. Any person who can walk up to a podium with a microphone and an audience and mock someone who is disabled is, in my mind, the lowest of the low. And I truly don't understand how anyone can vote for someone who does that. If someone has so little respect for the disabled, it is no surprise that he mocks and is condescending to other groups of people who struggle for equal treatment in our society. All the subsequent offensive statements against latinos, African Americans, Muslims, women, etc., just further cement, for me, his complete and total lack of character. Look in the dictionary and you'll find Donald Trump's picture under the definition of "lack of moral compass." [ This 1000 times. Applause!!!
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Post by cindyupnorth on Oct 11, 2016 0:20:22 GMT
I can tell you what I think people are voting for, when they vote for Trump. I see it posted daily on my FB page from my aunt and a bunch of wacko relatives. This is NOT what I believe. This is what conservative, Christian, republicans believe...they don't care what he has done, or what he says, They only care about the pro-life, anti abortion, non-same sex marriage, and gun rights. That is why they will vote for him. Because Hillary is all the opposite of that. Which god only knows if Trump is even still going to believe that if he gets in to office.
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Post by Merge on Oct 11, 2016 0:24:59 GMT
I can tell you what I think people are voting for, when they vote for Trump. I see it posted daily on my FB page from my aunt and a bunch of wacko relatives. This is NOT what I believe. This is what conservative, Christian, republicans believe...they don't care what he has done, or what he says, They only care about the pro-life, anti abortion, non-same sex marriage, and gun rights. That is why they will vote for him. Because Hillary is all the opposite of that. Which god only knows if Trump is even still going to believe that if he gets in to office. I know that is true for my Trump-voting relatives - that's why they're voting for him. My uncle had the gall to post on my FB page the other day that he was sorry I couldn't see what several more years of no God and no family values in the White House would do to our country. This was the day after the tape was released. After I picked my chin up off the floor, I simply commented that my family values didn't include racism, xenophobia or misogyny. I didn't even go into how exactly he had pegged Trump as the "family values" candidate because there's no arguing with someone who thinks they have God on their side. And it's dangerous, really, this automatic conflation that some people make between Republican and the more "Godly" or "moral" choice. It lets the Republicans do anything they want, put up any candidate they want, and a large segment of the population will vote for them because the Republican candidate is automatically the more "moral" one - whether reason shows that to be true or not. Trump may say he's pro-life, but is he really for God and family values? Doesn't matter. He's got an R by his name so he must have better morals than the one with the D by her name. The fact that over 43% of the population is still willing to vote for this man, and that many defend him as a moral and upstanding leader, tells you that there is a large disconnect between these people and reality.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 4:30:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2016 0:26:35 GMT
There are two people running for president. Both who I find to be equally deplorable. I would never vote for Hillary based on her policy agenda, as I've said here before. I also do not want her to appoint the next Supreme Court Justices. So, based on the political platform that Trump is running on vs. the one that Hillary is running on, I will vote for Trump. So, it's only wrong to stay with your cheating spouse if said spouse is a Democrat. on the one hand, you deride HC for staying with Bill because he is supposedly so immoral, but you admit that you support Trump. I guess morality is subjective. I said nothing about cheating. I discussed the allegations of sexual assault that have come over decades from multiple women starting in the 60s. I can't stand Trump or Hillary. I think she is a big hypocrite for criticizing Trump on this issue though considering who she's married to. There are countless other reasons why I could never vote for her that I don't care to get into, but the primary reason for not voting for her is that I disagree with her on every single issue that I can think of. And FWIW, I think Newt Gingrich is brilliant, but I did not support him in '12 Presidential Primary because at the same time he was criticizing Clinton for Lewinsky he cheated on his sick wife. It's a character issue, and for that reason I did not support Trump in the primary this year. My favorite candidate was Fiorina. I am a Republican, and there are issues on the Dem platform that I can't ever vote for. So when it comes down to it, I have to vote Republican because of the issues.
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Post by putabuttononit on Oct 11, 2016 0:39:57 GMT
You misquoted me. Don't use quotes unless it's actually accurate. What you quoted is not what I said, nor is it what I meant. I was talking about our current culture and how far it has sunk in regards to decency and the way that women are treated, used, exploited, and thought of. Peas notwithstanding, I was talking about a much bigger picture, mainly Hollywood and what is accepted as entertainment these days, as well as mainstream media and social media. I still think it's a good discussion to have, and a worthwhile one. I think it's a positive step in the right direction to talk about it, and as a society question if it's time to say enough already. Women deserve better. I didn't misquote you, I paraphrased. Mostly, because I was too lazy to copy and paste the actual quote. I said exactly the same thing you did. You said that non-Christians do not have a moral compass. It may not be what you meant now that you realize how far you shoved your foot in your mouth, but it is exactly what you said.
Yes, women deserve better. Way better than the shit that's a societal "norm" for women. Way better than allowing a vile misogynist than Trump being allowed anywhere near the right to govern or create legislation. He shouldn't have been allowed to get where he is, yet oddly, the "conservative right" many of whom claim to be "Christian" allowed just that. So explain to me how your hands are clean as a Christian but mine are not because I refuse to believe a religion that constantly undermines and works against the rights of women? I have to hope that if there really is a god, that he's pretty pissed off right now at how people from the "Christian Right" have royally fucked things up. Go ahead and paraphrase but then leave quotation marks off since that is used to show exactness. I have never said Christians are the only ones who do right, and I certainly don't believe that is true. Far from it. I also didn't say Christians are the only people with a moral compass. but I can see that what I did say came across as inflammatory. Truth is most people have their own moral compass but I feel that our "general" society (collectively) has lost sight of some important boundaries of respect and common decency. It is worth taking the time to think about, and as I've said, maybe the latest "line crossing" is a good place to start.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Oct 11, 2016 0:48:09 GMT
I can tell you what I think people are voting for, when they vote for Trump. I see it posted daily on my FB page from my aunt and a bunch of wacko relatives. This is NOT what I believe. This is what conservative, Christian, republicans believe...they don't care what he has done, or what he says, They only care about the pro-life, anti abortion, non-same sex marriage, and gun rights. That is why they will vote for him. Because Hillary is all the opposite of that. Which god only knows if Trump is even still going to believe that if he gets in to office. I agree with this, and will add that these same people are absolutely sure that Trump will fill the SC with conservative Christians (who are against everything in cindyupnorth's post), and that is what will "make America great again." Who knows what Trump believes now, and if it'll be the same thing he'll believe in six months? Or if he'll have the inclination and power to act on any of it? I mean, he'll be busy making sure Hillary Clinton is put in jail, so who knows how the whole running-the-country-according-to-the-actual-laws thing will work out for him. Save
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