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Post by cindyupnorth on Oct 13, 2016 17:48:43 GMT
I don't mean to say anything wrong. So bear with me, but this is something I have thought of for awhile. I have mentioned my die hard Aunt on here. The one that posts all the political stuff on FB. She is die hard Trump ONLY because of the prolife, future Supreme court nominations. Ok. so lets' say, Trump wins. he gets in to office, and nominates SC justices. Somehow Rowe vs wade gets overturned. Now what? So no one in the USA can have abortions anymore? no matter what? no matter the health of the mother, or baby. So, what exactly are we going to see come of that? and what exactly are we going to do with all these extra babies, possible severely handicapped coming out of that? When we can't take care of the children with disabilities we currently have now? What is the long term plan for this ,if it happens by the pro-lifers? I honestly don't mean any disrespect. I am just curious to what the long term plans are?
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama

Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,927
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Oct 13, 2016 17:52:35 GMT
ETA: for clarity - I am merely answering the concern in your post about Trump's stand on abortion - I am in no way endorsing, supporting, or defending that asshat.
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scorpeao
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,524
Location: NorCal USA
Jun 25, 2014 21:04:54 GMT
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Post by scorpeao on Oct 13, 2016 18:37:08 GMT
I don't get the being opposed to abortion 'except in cases of...' If you truly believe life begins at conception I don't know how you can say killing of that life is EVER okay. FTR...I'm fully pro-choice, and I don't think there's anything wrong with first trimester abortions, or any other special circumstance abortion.
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Post by monklady123 on Oct 13, 2016 18:47:02 GMT
It seems to me -- from what I've read -- that Republicans in government (i.e., our state reps, Congress, etc.) so often vote against things like welfare increases, or food subsidies for kids, other anti-poverty measures, etc. Yet they are so adamant that there be NO abortion. It's almost like they care more about kids up until birth then after that...well those mothers are on their own. This isn't my original thought, I read it on Twitter recently. What makes me mad is when I read things like "those pro-abortion people are all about killing babies, even full term up to the day they're born." I saw that one recently also. I'd like to know exactly who these doctors or clinics are who are aborting a full term baby. No? That's what I thought, there aren't any. Also, when I say I am "pro-choice" that does not mean I am "pro-abortion". Yet the anti abortion crowd often insists that's exactly what it means. But why do they get to tell me what I mean by that? I am not "pro abortion all the time" but I am definitely pro CHOICE for the woman.
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Post by sugarmama on Oct 13, 2016 19:37:41 GMT
I'm in the camp that abortion should be between a woman and her doctor. PERIOD! I think the government needs to butt out. On paper, I guess I am pro-life, since apparently you have to choose one or the other. I am adamantly opposed to late term abortion and abortion as a means of birth control.
ETA: I guess I didn't answer your question. Regardless of who I vote for or who runs for office in the future, I don't see Roe v. Wade ever being overturned.
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Post by cade387 on Oct 13, 2016 19:43:38 GMT
If Roe v. Wade is overturned abortions will not magically stop. There will be back alley abortions again. there will be women who "DIY" it at home. Those women will also most likely die or be infertile or have other health issues from it for the rest of their lives. It would go back to how it was before the law passed; how it is in areas where state governments have made it darn near impossible to have an abortion now anyway. It wasn't like it didn't exist before Roe v. Wade.
I'm not a one issue voter. So maybe I shouldn't answer your question, but I think some people think it will magically go away. They are wrong. Just like if Bernie was elected we all weren't magically getting free college tuition either. IT just isn't how it works. Folks are naïve to think it is that simple.
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
Jun 25, 2014 19:18:36 GMT
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Post by ginacivey on Oct 13, 2016 19:46:30 GMT
i agree with the - caring until birth and then they don't want to help
it seems like an oxymoron - to be so concerned with unborn life - but then so against any type of welfare (and I use that term as broadly as possible)
i just don't get it
my motto has always been - don't believe in abortion? then don't have one!
gina
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Oct 13, 2016 19:49:44 GMT
I have no idea what happens and am afraid to even think about it. Living in Indiana, this almost became our reality for all intensive purposes, where the powers that be are clearly pro-birth which I believe is an entirely different thing than being pro-life. I agree with monklady123 , being pro-choice doesn't equate with being pro-abortion. Just like adoption isn't the opposite of abortion, as I read recently in a very thought provoking blog post from a pro-lifer who supports HRC. ETA- here is a link to the blog if anyone is interested in what she had to say 
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:15:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 19:55:14 GMT
Roe v. Wade isn't going anywhere. It's just not. The Court has been conservative since the Reagan years, even earlier according to some. They've had all that time to overturn the Roe decision, and they haven't. In fact, the Court has consistently struck down restrictions passed by states, the most recent being Texas.
I can understand someone voting for Trump to keep Hillary from appointing SC justices who will undoubtedly be liberal and swing the Court to the left. But if voters are counting on Trump to appoint someone who is conservative, they're going to be disappointed. He himself is not a conservative.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama

PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,690
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 13, 2016 19:56:58 GMT
I'm not your exact target audience, but here are some of my thoughts anyway.  I'm pretty much categorically anti-abortion, and no way in hell will I vote for Trump. I do not believe that making abortions illegal will make them stop, but will actually lead to further complications. I do think there are a million other pro-life issues that are on the table right now, and within our realm of fixing, or at least helping - refugees, our own homeless, etc. I believe that being truly pro-life is far, far larger than the single issue of abortion.
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Post by anxiousmom on Oct 13, 2016 19:59:07 GMT
Hypothetically, if Roe V. Wade is overturned at the federal level, wouldn't the states then have the right to pass their own legislation pertaining to abortion rights?
I am firmly in the pro-choice camp.
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Post by anxiousmom on Oct 13, 2016 20:04:33 GMT
I do think there are a million other pro-life issues that are on the table right now, and within our realm of fixing, or at least helping - refugees, our own homeless, etc. I believe that being truly pro-life is far, far larger than the single issue of abortion. This is one of those things that confounds me enormously. RosieKat this is not at all directed at you, but it reminded me of how I see a lot of pro-life people who are also pro-death penalty and I can not figure out how someone who is staunchly pro-life can possibly think that the death penalty is okay. It seems to me that, like what you said, pro-life is pro-life regardless of which end of the scale it applies to.
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Post by littlemama on Oct 13, 2016 20:22:21 GMT
I don't think they actually care what happens to those children who are born to people who cannot care for them. Pro choice does not mean pro abortion. If you are morally opposed to abortion, then don't have one - that is your CHOICE. Don't be thinking about, talking about, grabbing, or legislating my private areas.
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Post by femalebusiness on Oct 13, 2016 20:22:36 GMT
I remember those days before Rowe v Wade and it wasn't pretty. I personally knew/saw women whose lives were lost or forever changed because safe abortions were not legal. I hope we never go back to those dark ages. I can never wrap my brain around women who would force another woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy. If women don't have control over their own bodies we will forever remain second class citizens. For the first time in human history women have the opportunity to be equal because we are able to control our biology. I just hope we don't blow it.
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Post by lucyg on Oct 13, 2016 20:25:25 GMT
I don't get the being opposed to abortion 'except in cases of...' If you truly believe life begins at conception I don't know how you can say killing of that life is EVER okay. FTR...I'm fully pro-choice, and I don't think there's anything wrong with first trimester abortions, or any other special circumstance abortion. I totally agree, and I'll take it a big step further. Remember the uproar when Donald Trump said "there has to be punishment for the woman." In his usual awkward, ignorant way, he was absolutely correct, but the pro-life movement doesn't want to go there because they know it will frighten average people off of the anti-abortion movement entirely. The fact is, if you're going to make abortion illegal and punish doctors for performing them, then you must punish the women as well. Anything less is cowardly and avoiding reality for the sake of convenience. The women are not victims. They are willingly participating in the "crime." So if you want abortion to be illegal, I expect you to enforce the law against everyone involved, not just the doctors and nurses. And I would like to see the pro-choice movement say this loudly and often, instead of hiding behind being outraged whenever some dumbass like Trump gets the party line all wrong. I think it would do abortion rights a big favor in many people's minds. ETA I too remember the days before Roe v. Wade. Never, never go back. So far, so good, but I also fear a Supreme Court loaded up with far right-wing justices.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:15:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2016 20:31:03 GMT
I do think there are a million other pro-life issues that are on the table right now, and within our realm of fixing, or at least helping - refugees, our own homeless, etc. I believe that being truly pro-life is far, far larger than the single issue of abortion. This is one of those things that confounds me enormously. RosieKat this is not at all directed at you, but it reminded me of how I see a lot of pro-life people who are also pro-death penalty and I can not figure out how someone who is staunchly pro-life can possibly think that the death penalty is okay. It seems to me that, like what you said, pro-life is pro-life regardless of which end of the scale it applies to. I'm pro-choice, not sure what to say about the death penalty, but just trying to look at your question from their perspective and logic... Maybe they feel a life who's only contribution here on earth is destroying or killing people is not worth saving, but a new life is.
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Post by anonrefugee on Oct 13, 2016 20:31:50 GMT
I hear you monklady123 . I don't understand the narrowminded-ness that makes the leap that a choice is automatically an abortion. Off topic, but I find myself wondering if those people have the same rigid stance on other subjects in their lives. I literally pray they never deal with end of life issues requiring feeding tubes and life support.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Oct 13, 2016 20:38:35 GMT
You can still be pro-life and not vote for Trump.
If Roe v. Wade is overturned, those who support it are affecting those who do not--in a medical, personal, telling me how to live my life kind of way.
If you are pro/choice it's between each individual person.
If Roe v. Wade is overturned I cannot make decisions for my own body in that regard, because someone else is telling me that they know what is best for me.
I'm pro-choice, and I don't think that I'd ever abort, but if I had to, I want to decide.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Oct 13, 2016 20:40:49 GMT
If, in this imaginary world, Roe v Wade gets overturned, abortion is not going anywhere except slightly underground... ever so slightly. Far too many actual doctors believe in choice and will find a way to provide the services. I do not provide termination services and I can think of several ways to do so legally in an imaginary world where there is no Roe v Wade.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama

PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,690
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 13, 2016 20:45:11 GMT
Also, when I say I am "pro-choice" that does not mean I am "pro-abortion". Yet the anti abortion crowd often insists that's exactly what it means. But why do they get to tell me what I mean by that? I am not "pro abortion all the time" but I am definitely pro CHOICE for the woman. I think people that try to make that argument are just trying to play a game and win with words. I've never known anyone who is actually "pro-abortion," including women who have had one. I try to be very clear with my terms and intent - I cannot truly say I am 100% anti-abortion because I know that technically speaking, the term medical abortion can include things like removal of a dead fetus from a mother. To force a mother to birth her dead baby is cruelty. So for me to use the term "pro-life" for myself, rather than "anti-abortion" is probably more correct. As for the issue of the death penalty, I will admit that it is something I wrangle with. I do feel that it is used far too easily for certain. I cannot (yet?) in my heart say that the death penalty is wrong for someone who has, for example, brutally terrorized and murdered several people and who says he would continue to do so. That is a specific case I know of, where someone I knew casually was murdered by a serial killer. I have a hard time valuing his life. However, as I said earlier, I do think that for sure we need to restrict the death penalty severely.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 13, 2016 20:48:56 GMT
There is a rumor going around that Hillary and Obama are ok with abortion up until 36 weeks for any reason, which is not helping matters at all.
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Post by pierkiss on Oct 13, 2016 21:29:14 GMT
If Roe v. Wade is overturned abortions will not magically stop. There will be back alley abortions again. there will be women who "DIY" it at home. Those women will also most likely die or be infertile or have other health issues from it for the rest of their lives. It would go back to how it was before the law passed; how it is in areas where state governments have made it darn near impossible to have an abortion now anyway. It wasn't like it didn't exist before Roe v. Wade. I'm not a one issue voter. So maybe I shouldn't answer your question, but I think some people think it will magically go away. They are wrong. Just like if Bernie was elected we all weren't magically getting free college tuition either. IT just isn't how it works. Folks are naïve to think it is that simple. ALL OF THIS!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 13, 2016 21:41:51 GMT
I don't get the being opposed to abortion 'except in cases of...' If you truly believe life begins at conception I don't know how you can say killing of that life is EVER okay. FTR...I'm fully pro-choice, and I don't think there's anything wrong with first trimester abortions, or any other special circumstance abortion. I totally agree, and I'll take it a big step further. Remember the uproar when Donald Trump said "there has to be punishment for the woman." In his usual awkward, ignorant way, he was absolutely correct, but the pro-life movement doesn't want to go there because they know it will frighten average people off of the anti-abortion movement entirely. The fact is, if you're going to make abortion illegal and punish doctors for performing them, then you must punish the women as well. Anything less is cowardly and avoiding reality for the sake of convenience. The women are not victims. They are willingly participating in the "crime." So if you want abortion to be illegal, I expect you to enforce the law against everyone involved, not just the doctors and nurses.And I would like to see the pro-choice movement say this loudly and often, instead of hiding behind being outraged whenever some dumbass like Trump gets the party line all wrong. I think it would do abortion rights a big favor in many people's minds. ETA I too remember the days before Roe v. Wade. Never, never go back. So far, so good, but I also fear a Supreme Court loaded up with far right-wing justices. And to go one step further, how about coming up with some kind of punishment for the man who got the woman pregnant in the first place? I'm firmly pro-choice, not yet safely through menopause and I have a daughter. The thought of Trump choosing Supreme Court justices scares the living crap out of me.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Oct 13, 2016 22:49:55 GMT
There is a rumor going around that Hillary and Obama are ok with abortion up until 36 weeks for any reason, which is not helping matters at all. Ah, that explains what confused me a couple days ago. When Paul Ryan decided to stop campaigning for Trump, I saw a quote from an outraged congressman - something about allowing Hillary Clinton to be elected will mean fetuses will be torn limb from limb across the country. I was puzzled by the dramatic language, and then mostly wondered why anybody would believe abortions would increase in a Clinton administration. Now I'm thinking the graphic description reflected this thinking about support of late-term abortions.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Oct 13, 2016 23:01:22 GMT
I totally agree, and I'll take it a big step further. Remember the uproar when Donald Trump said "there has to be punishment for the woman." In his usual awkward, ignorant way, he was absolutely correct, but the pro-life movement doesn't want to go there because they know it will frighten average people off of the anti-abortion movement entirely. The fact is, if you're going to make abortion illegal and punish doctors for performing them, then you must punish the women as well. Anything less is cowardly and avoiding reality for the sake of convenience. The women are not victims. They are willingly participating in the "crime." So if you want abortion to be illegal, I expect you to enforce the law against everyone involved, not just the doctors and nurses. And I would like to see the pro-choice movement say this loudly and often, instead of hiding behind being outraged whenever some dumbass like Trump gets the party line all wrong. I think it would do abortion rights a big favor in many people's minds. Bingo. If you oppose abortion, you oppose abortion and anybody who chooses one or performs one. When the Jesuits in college taught me situational ethics, abortion never qualified. It's either wrong or it's not wrong. (Note: The Catholic Church allows "indirect" abortions, abortions that are a result of cancer treatment and ectopic pregnancy intervention. Well, only sometimes with the ectopic pregnancies, depending on whether there's intention to save the tube. That's how precise the whole direct/indirect distinction is.) btw: I believe abortion should be legal and accessible. Based on my upbringing, though, I've always been intrigued by the circular arguments supporting exceptions...and sidestepping "guilt."
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Post by littlemama on Oct 13, 2016 23:13:34 GMT
I can understand someone voting for Trump to keep Hillary from appointing SC justices who will undoubtedly be liberal and swing the Court to the left. But if voters are counting on Trump to appoint someone who is conservative, they're going to be disappointed. He himself is not a conservative. HRC is generally considered to be a moderate Democrat, not a liberal, so while the court would likely be more left of center, there isn't anything to indicate and extreme liberal swing. Democrat does not equal liberal and republican does not equal conservative. Liberal and conservative are the extremes. My election year goal is to vote for moderate congressional candidates who commit to working with one another and the president to get things done. The Obstructionism of Congress in the past 8-ish years is embarrassing.
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Post by Merge on Oct 13, 2016 23:20:22 GMT
If, in this imaginary world, Roe v Wade gets overturned, abortion is not going anywhere except slightly underground... ever so slightly. Far too many actual doctors believe in choice and will find a way to provide the services. I do not provide termination services and I can think of several ways to do so legally in an imaginary world where there is no Roe v Wade. Yes, and the problem, of course, is that wealthy women can far more readily afford the under-the-table services of someone like you who could do this safely. The poor will end up with back alley butchers as they did in the past. But why should Republicans give a crap about that? The poor have never been their major concern anyway, and their wives and daughters will still be able to afford the "D&C" that their doctor can give them. Sorry, my bitter is showing. (I realize that I'm preaching to choir on this ...)
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
Jun 26, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
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Post by ~Lauren~ on Oct 13, 2016 23:37:32 GMT
What's wrong with demanding personal responsibility? Going about your sexual life with the understanding that there is a risk that you will get pregnant and have the responsibility of raising a child or putting the child up for adoption?
Why is it society's obligation to foot the bill so people can have sex? Why is an innocent the one who bears the brunt of irresponsible choices?
Yes, I know that birth control is not fool proof. But, nonetheless, the individuals engaging in the behavior should be the ones ultimately responsible for the results of their choices. Not anyone else's. The woman's "choice" was the one she made when she had sex.
As far as wealthy women having more choices; well that's the same with respect to everything in life. The wealthy can afford to do things the less wealthy cannot.
Yes, the men get off easier but that's an issue of biology and thems the breaks; just like "thems the breaks" when a woman chooses to have a baby over a guys objection and he still has to pay child support for 18-21 years.
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Post by leftturnonly on Oct 13, 2016 23:41:23 GMT
I don't mean to say anything wrong. So bear with me, but this is something I have thought of for awhile. I have mentioned my die hard Aunt on here. The one that posts all the political stuff on FB. She is die hard Trump ONLY because of the prolife, future Supreme court nominations. Ok. so lets' say, Trump wins. he gets in to office, and nominates SC justices. Somehow Rowe vs wade gets overturned. Now what? So no one in the USA can have abortions anymore? no matter what? no matter the health of the mother, or baby. So, what exactly are we going to see come of that? and what exactly are we going to do with all these extra babies, possible severely handicapped coming out of that? When we can't take care of the children with disabilities we currently have now? What is the long term plan for this ,if it happens by the pro-lifers? I honestly don't mean any disrespect. I am just curious to what the long term plans are?
I don't for a minute believe Rowe vs Wade will be overturned anytime in the near future even with a Conservative leaning Supreme Court and a Trump presidency.
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Post by anonrefugee on Oct 13, 2016 23:42:21 GMT
What's wrong with demanding personal responsibility? Going about your sexual life with the understanding that there is a risk that you will get pregnant and have the responsibility of raising a child or putting the child up for adoption? Why is it society's obligation to foot the bill so people can have sex? Why is an innocent the one who bears the brunt of irresponsible choices? Yes, I know that birth control is not fool proof. But, nonetheless, the individuals engaging in the behavior should be the ones ultimately responsible for the results of their choices. Not anyone else's. The woman's "choice" was the one she made when she had sex. As far as wealthy women having more choices; well that's the same with respect to everything in life. The wealthy can afford to do things the less wealthy cannot. Yes, the men get off easier but that's an issue of biology and thems the breaks; just like "thems the breaks" when a woman chooses to have a baby over a guys objection and he still has to pay child support for 18-21 years. Lauren, you know abortion isn't only an issue about inconvient pregnancy and concensual sex. C'mon.
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