? for the Pro-life/vote for Trump no matter what die hards..

Nonrefugee.....Of course not, but the vast majority of the time, it is.

Why is it society's responsibility to foot the bill so people can smoke?  Or drink? Or eat themselves into obesity?

By that logic, we should do away with any and all social programs - public education, Medicare, Social Security, disability. Can't afford private education for your kids? Don't have them, or educate them yourself. Can't afford food and medical care when you get too old to work and you're at the point where you're using more social security than you paid in? Too bad - go ahead and off yourself; you made the choice to live so long and save so little. Injured and disabled in a car wreck and unable to work? Suicide is painless, baby - we shouldn't have to be responsible for the fact that you chose to drive too fast.

I find it a particularly misogynistic argument that says that a particularly unacceptable use of public funds is to support women who chose to have sex. It implies that there is something wrong and shameful both with being female and - particularly - with females having sex.

People have sex. Sometimes pregnancy is the result. This is a normal part of the human condition, not any more shameful than other choices that people make that may require some help from our social programs. It is to society's general benefit to make sure that every child born is wanted, cared for and born to a healthy mom. Just like it's to our benefit to ensure an educated population and to not leave our elderly and disabled people to starve in the street.

Only in the last month have the women of Poland taken to the streets  to protest against a controversial citizens' bill for a near-total ban on abortion. It was voted out on the 6th October.

BBC

The bill came from an anti-abortion citizens' initiative that gathered some 450,000 signatures. It was initially backed by the Catholic Church, but bishops then said they could not support one of the proposals, to jail women who had an abortion.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37573938

When I had my miscarriage at 10.5 weeks, the D&C was billed as an abortion on my insurance. By using the word, which is a medical term, that would open me up to investigation if folks like Mike Pence have their way.

So let's take a woman who is already in agony and bully her about whether that was really needed or if I just decided I didn't want to be pregnant. I would have been in jail for assaulting an officer with the way my hormones were going. This isn't ok. Every medical procedure shouldn't be up for questioning by the police.

It's not. 

Sure it is. In many of the same ways you claim society foots the bill so people can have sex.

We help pay for medical treatment for all the variety of illnesses that come with all of those choices, not to mention Disability and SSI because a number of medical conditions directly resulting from these voluntary choices leave some people unable to work.  

Careful you are hinting at exactly what the far right wants.  Survival of the fittest and wealthiest... all the rest be damned

I used to vote Republican largely based upon a pro-life stance. Then life experience happened. Then I continued to mature and serve in my community and abroad and saw realities that broke my heart.

I'm still very much pro-life for myself, but I also now know better than to say never me, never my daughters, never. And now I'm not voting Republican because the party that once was a great compassionate, intelligent, informed party now no longer represents me. I haven't read through the whole thread, so maybe someone has posted this quote already, but it really sums up in short order my feelings:

"I do not believe that just because you’re opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don’t? Because you don’t want any tax money to go there.

That’s not pro-life. That’s pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is." ~Sister Joan Chittester

I am absolutely not a Trump supporter (or Clinton supporter for that matter) but wanted to comment on something I saw mentioned in this thread. I am opposed to abortion except in the case of life of the mother and potentially as a result of rape or insist. My reasoning behind this exception for life of the mother is that I equate it with self-defense in a sense. I don't think people should kill other people in most circumstances, but if your life is on the line then I understand that there is no choice. I realize I am oversimplifying things a bit but that's my thought process.

In the event of incest or rape, the reasoning gets murkier. I am a compassionate human who doesn't want anyone to suffer due to an act of violence committed against them. I would hope that most would get treatment immediately after the rape happens (incest is even trickier) but I realize that is not going to happen. It's a difficult thing to reconcile your belief that life begins at conception and that forcing someone to carry a baby created during the worst act of violence ever inflicted upon them is humane. So, that's why you see such exceptions in people's minds.

Right or wrong, I just wanted to shed some light on why some people think this way. Things aren't always black and white. So many shades of gray color this issue.

I think it's interesting that anyone would trust that Trump is "pro-life" - he's burning down the Republican party, but some are voting for him because they think he'll stay true to their platform? LOL.

Would also love to know how many abortions Donald Trump has paid for in his life. Maureen Dowd tried to ask him and he said, "Interesting question. What's your next question?"

I'm pro-choice. I went to Catholic school my entire life, kindergarten through college. I remember in 7th grade I proposed to a nun during theology class that if life ended when brain waves stopped, how could we think there was "life" before there would be brain waves? How does life exist without the very thing that we say is required to not be considered dead? My mother got a call that day and was basically told thinking for yourself is frowned about in these situations :-)