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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 0:36:35 GMT
I read a meme the other day that said the trouble with being empathetic is that you feel sorry for assholes. This is me. My ex husband is a miserable human being and a drunk. He saw my kids three days in 2016. He told me he could not have the kids on Christmas day because he had to work. So I felt sorry for him and invited him to my Christmas eve celebration. He refused to come. My DD texted him and invited him. He refused.
So last night my DD is crying because he did not come. It was like the last straw for her. She feels like he does not love her. She was crying,I was crying. It just made me feel so bad. He doesn't text them. He doesn't do a damn thing except pay his child support.
So this morning I am drinking my coffee and I get a text from him wishing me a merry Christmas. I wrote him back and I said that I was really mad at him. I told him my DD was crying last night and that I thought it was sad he couldn't put his differences aside and come to Christmas eve at my house. He called me yelling. I hung up on him. He waited a bit and called me back. He said he would not yell. OK so he says I have some things I want to say to you. He says...you know my job sucks. I said you were off last night and could have come. Guy completely breaks down. Says he didn't come because he didn't want to face my dad. I told him that was a poor excuse. I told him he has been a terrible father and he is hurting our kids and he is missing out on seeing them grow up. He counters with...I still love you. I miss you. My Christmas just isn't the same without you. I have to work on Christmas day, there was no tree, no presents,no family. Like I said he is miserable.
I just don't even know what to say to him. I ended it by cutting him off...telling him merry Christmas...that I would give the kids a hug for him...and I would contact him when my DD get as time off work for a visit.
Seriously he completely drains me emotionally. I feel like just talking to him completely sucks the life out of me and I need a stiff drink when I get off the phone. Both the kids have phones but he never contacts them. Only me. And you know I have always tried to be kind to him. I do feel sorry for him. He has ruined his life. He can't move on. But I am beginning to feel like I just don't have the emotional energy to deal with him anymore.
Does anyone have an ex like this? I'm almost afraid if I don't answer him its going to push him right off the deep end. Any advice welcome. If you have experience dealing with someone like this, please I want to hear from you.
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Post by mom on Dec 26, 2016 0:40:04 GMT
I am so sorry. No real advice right now, other than to say its ok to walk away from people who treat you this way.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 1:07:02 GMT
I am so sorry. No real advice right now, other than to say its ok to walk away from people who treat you this way. Honestly every time I get off the phone with him I am forever grateful I left him and do not have to deal with him everyday.
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scrappington
Pearl Clutcher
in Canada
Posts: 3,139
Jun 26, 2014 14:43:10 GMT
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Post by scrappington on Dec 26, 2016 1:08:33 GMT
You are NOT responsible for his actions. Your kids know what their dad is. You don't have to protect them. They know they have a mom. You are trying to give them a father that they don't have. Let it go. It's honourable but I don't think you can change him. It's his loss not yours. Yes your kids are affected but they have you.
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Post by disneypal on Dec 26, 2016 1:12:46 GMT
I am sorry - I don't really have advise but just remember, you cannot make someone a good father - he has to do that himself. You reached out to him, he didn't accept. He knows how to get in touch with you and his kids. I would leave it there - if he wants to see his kids, he will make it a point. I'm sorry your kids have to deal with it and get hurt in the end. Just tell them that he loves them the best way he can.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Dec 26, 2016 1:23:14 GMT
Time for your kids to let their father go, and let your husband be their dad. I hope they have a relationship that they are all open to that.
My husband's dad is not his bio father but no one has ever thought of him as anything but his dad. He did a pretty good job of raising my husband. All because another man stepped up to the plate and did the right thing. Your ex is not capable. Let your husband be capable.
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anaterra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Location: Texas
Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
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Post by anaterra on Dec 26, 2016 1:25:56 GMT
Honestly I think he is manipulating you because he still has the power to... he can get ahold of his children if he wants to without going thru you... he makes ur daughter cry n that is sad but you will never be able to change that...
stop giving him the power over you... he can call n txt her... and when he calls you instead.. tell him nope call ur daughter... you really don't have to put up with it...
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Post by destined2bmom on Dec 26, 2016 1:44:29 GMT
Honestly I think he is manipulating you because he still has the power to... he can get ahold of his children if he wants to without going thru you... he makes ur daughter cry n that is sad but you will never be able to change that... stop giving him the power over you... he can call n txt her... and when he calls you instead.. tell him nope call ur daughter... you really don't have to put up with it... I agree. He knows exactly what he is doing and the old saying of "misery loves company" applies here. Don't be his company. Besides that you don't want him to use you as a reason to not contact and have a relationship with them. He could always twist things in the future to make it out that he is a victim.
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Post by NanaKate on Dec 26, 2016 1:49:58 GMT
Not sure how old your kids are, but your ex sounds a lot like mine. Best thing I ever did was back off and let my son deal with him on his own. Of course DS was in his 20's - a full grown adult at the time.
Son is 41 now and has been pouring his heart out to me a lot lately about his dad, and I am always there to listen. Fortunately for me, though, I have not had to speak to his dad for years.
It really was best in our case for me to get out of the middle of their relationship. It is not easy, though, and sometimes I feel like I will go to my grave being sorry for who my son's dad is. I made that choice all those years ago. DS didn't. DS is an only child, btw.
Good luck!
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Post by Lexica on Dec 26, 2016 1:56:23 GMT
It sounds like you have been as kind and honest as possible with him. That's all very commendable, but you don't have to make yourself crazy in the process. Your kids are old enough to contact him themselves. I would recommend encouraging that to happen so that you do not have to be the go-between person any longer. Your kids must know he is an alcoholic, right?
I remember crying my eyes out when my father, who was also an alcoholic, promised to come get me to take me to dinner on my birthday. He didn't come. I sat there sobbing in my mother's arms all dressed up in my best little dress. I asked what was wrong with me. She said that the problem was with him. It didn't mean he didn't love me, it was just that he didn't love himself enough to stop drinking, and that drinking made him into a different man than he was without alcohol. It helped me to know that, yet broke my heart at the same time. I was probably 7 years old.
In our case, my father stopped drinking and my parents remarried. They remained totally devoted to each other until they day they each died. Dad lived alcohol free and passed at 90 years old. He truly was a loving and giving man when he did not drink. It was a really good lesson for me as to what alcohol or any excess can do to a person, as well as a lesson that people can change when they want to.
Support your children the best you can when they talk about how they are hurting or disappointed about their dad, but you don't' need to be the go-between any longer. In fact, you trying to help him like this is probably counterproductive if he ever wants to face himself and get sober. Your kids have you, and one parent who loves them and is there for them is enough. Maybe not optimal, but it is enough.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,840
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Dec 26, 2016 2:13:59 GMT
It is unfortunate that your xh calls you and not directly to your children. I am trying to guess that your kids are teenagers. This is tough.
I am also divorced, but my ds was already married when this happened, so he talks to his dad on his own time & without my knowledge. I rarely talk to my xh; there were two situations this year when he talked to me.
Due to life circumstances, I do not have anything to do with his family.
I can understand that he wouldn't want to be in the company of your family, especially your parents. I would be so intimidated if I were to be invited to my x's side of the family, that I would think of any excuse not to attend. Is it at all possible for your xh to be with his children without your parents being involved? Maybe an afternoon? A dinner with the former inlaws would really scare the sh!t out of me.
I am learning that divorce truly does mean to be completely cut-off with my former inlaws and their families. This doesn't mean that I don't stop caring about them, but it does mean that I am not involved in their every day lives. I suppose that it is *easier* for me to implement this as it is just me, no children involved. Please note that this isn't easy at all, actually, very difficult for me emotionally.
( ( ( hugs ) ) ) Life is really hard sometimes.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 4:57:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 2:25:34 GMT
You are a very kind, compassionate person. You proved that by reaching out to him when you didn't have to. He made the choice to turn down time with his children. That's on him. Not you, not your children, not your dad.
My advice is to stop being the middle man between him and the kids. If he wants to spend time with them, he will find a way to do so. There's no way you can make it easier for him without making yourself crazy. Don't feel bad for him. He's an adult who has made excuses to not be a dad to his kids.
And please understand that you are not responsible to keep him from going off the deep end. If not responding to him is what you have to do for your own good, then do it. You and your children deserve a strong, healthy you!
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 2:40:06 GMT
I just want you all to know that I appreciate your replies. I'm reading them and rereading the them and trying to process and figure out what to do. Lexica you story of your dad standing you up on your birthday is heartbreaking. You must understand perfectly how my kids feel. Hugs.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 28, 2024 4:57:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 2:56:50 GMT
My father was like this.
I was the kid who waited for Dad to show up, only for him to not show up or call. I was the one always disappointed because he never made time for me, never called or visited. I never saw my parents in a healthy relationship. But I still loved my Dad, so much that it caused tension with my mom. She wanted me to hate him like she did and my older sister did. But I refused to give up on him.
He did this to me for years as a kid. Once I married, he continued to lose my address and phone number. I spent years reaching out to him, tracking him down, STILL TRYING to have a relationship with my Dad. (he was an alcoholic as was my mom)
It was when I had kids that I finally accepted that I was never going to have the relationship with my father that I wanted and deserved. I stopped trying. I let it go.
IMO, you need to love your daughter and stop trying to be the middle man in managing the relationship between your ex and your daughter. Don't speak poorly of your ex to your daughter, but don't make excuses for him or feel the need to have the answer. You keep feeding the relationship with her and build love and trust with her and tell her that you're sorry that she's hurting over her Dad, but you don't have the answers.
One day, perhaps he'll have answers. One day, perhaps he'll think that spending time with his kids is time well-spent. You cannot make that decision for him. YOu cannot make him want to make his kids a priority.
Stop taking ownership of his failures. You do you. You do you and your kids. What your ex does or doesn't do is his responsibility...not yours.
It's hard, I'm sure. You hate to see your kids hurt. Give them your love and support. It's all you can do. You most likely could not control him while married, chances are pretty sliim you're going to be able to control him now. He'll have to own his mistakes. Maybe one day he'll realize the mistake before it's too late. Or he won't. But that's on him.
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Post by jenjie on Dec 26, 2016 3:03:47 GMT
Lexica your mom was so wise. "She said that the problem was with him. It didn't mean he didn't love me, it was just that he didn't love himself enough to stop drinking, and that drinking made him into a different man than he was without alcohol." I'm so glad for you that things turned around for your dad and as a result, for your whole family. jeremysgirl I'm so sorry. It stinks. You've received great input here.
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Post by chlerbie on Dec 26, 2016 4:50:08 GMT
I'm so sorry that your DD was unhappy. My father used to do things like that as well--say he was coming and I'd wait by the window for him and he'd never show up. He wouldn't even call me on my birthday. I remember being really excited when I was about 13 when he called me and asked if I wanted to come over and spend the night, but it turned out he just wanted me to come over and babysit for his new girlfriends kids while she and he went out. I would often ask my mother "Why doesn't he love me?" and she'd say "He loves you as much as he can." My poor mom--and I'm sure it's the same for you. I'd want to believe in him, believe his promises and then I'd get angry at her when she'd try to prepare me for the worst and I'd defend him, only to be let down again.
All I can say is that I just eventually got over it and moved on and was able to remain detached. But it took a long time. I still loved him, and if I saw him, I'd enjoy the time i had with him, but I stopped ever expecting anything from him.
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msbtastic
Shy Member
Posts: 22
Sept 12, 2016 0:36:10 GMT
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Post by msbtastic on Dec 26, 2016 5:01:22 GMT
My sons father is a drug addict. He did things very similar to your ex-h. He contacted me more often than my son and used me as a mediator rather than contacting my son himself. He often stood him up and put me in ridiculous situations because I felt bad for him and wanted to help him to be a good father, heck a good person. I finally had to help my son and I by just letting him go. I was also afraid he'd go off the deep end, but he was toxic to me and it affected my parenting. While my son was upset when he continued to stand him up, etc., eventually he formed his own opinion of who his dad is and whether or not he wanted him in his life. I never spoke ill of his father, but I sat him down and talked to him about addictions and how they change people. We ended up doing some research about addiction and it really helped my son to digest the situation. He no longer feels that there's something wrong with him or that he's unlovable. Though we want to fix everything as parents, we can't fix other people. So my advice is to just be supportive and give them the tools to handle such situations where the people we love just aren't who we want and need them to be. And keep being a fantastic mom.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Dec 26, 2016 5:22:26 GMT
Although without firsthand experience with divorce &/or addicts, I suggest that you stop communicating with your ex-husband (except in emergencies involving his/your children). Appreciate that he pays child support, & accept this is the only role he wants in your children's lives.
Love your children, but do not create or promote (their) unrealistic expectations of your ex-husband; emphasize their father's poor choices are a relection on him, not a statement about them. Note incarcerated parents probably see their children more than three times per calendar year! You, your children, your dad, the weather, traffic, etc. are not to blame - only your ex-husband - for his lack of involvement in his children's lives.
If I may be blunt: You made the brave & bold choice of a better life for you & your children when you divorced your ex-husband, so live it...without him! It's his loss...
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Dec 26, 2016 6:20:06 GMT
His happiness and well being are no longer your responsibility. But he is also the father of your children, so I understand your sadness and frustration.
You are a great mom. I'm sorry you're hurting for your kids.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Dec 26, 2016 6:27:14 GMT
You are heard.
My ex hasn't called, texted, emailed or written DS since October. Normally he sends him money for Christmas or something, but this year he hasn't done anything.
The ex emailed me on my birthday (for the first time in our history). My son feels deserted by his dad, too. DS' dad isn't going to live to be an old man as he drinks very heavily every night. Weekends are morning until he passes out and then starts again. He would spend over $500 a month on alcohol alone.
I remember why I am single.
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Post by anxiousmom on Dec 26, 2016 11:49:40 GMT
My ex is an alcoholic. So is his wife. It is so incredibly sad and heartbreaking for the kids.
We have been divorced for a long time and over the years my ex and I have a decent enough relationship-almost friends. But-and I think this is the biggest thing-I have had to totally take my emotions/expectations out of the equation, including those that I have for boys and their relationship with him. I can coach them, but have had to step back and allow them to walk their own path with their dad even though it was/is an incredibly complicated one. I have never doubted his love for the kids, just his ability to cope with the world. I don't make excuses for him or his behavior, but do try to help with navigating a relationship with an alcoholic.
Don't think that I am minimizing it, or what you are asking. Because that isn't what I am trying to say-not at all. It is more like having learned through experience that I can't allow myself to get caught up in all of it. I am one of those perennially nice people and want to take care of the world. It is STILL hard for me to step back-and my kids are technically adults. I heard from both of my kids yesterday about how dad is on a serious bender (as is step-mom and she is an ugly drunk) right now and Christmas at their house was pretty much a non-event. It kills me to hear this.
But over all, I have had to learn how to stay out of it. Sometimes I have to step in, during the times that I think that there are safety issues, and those are rare in the extreme (they have a live in nanny who makes sure that all the little people are taken care of.) I find that I feel so sorry my ex sometimes that I want to help him sort himself out-he was so proud of himself the day he came over to my house to show me his AA chip (which apparently didn't stick.) I try to support him as best I can, but I simply can't get involved on a personal level anymore.
Anyway, this long winded answer is mostly to tell you that you aren't alone. But someone upthread said you have to stop trying to give the kids the father they don't have. They know what he is, he knows what he is, and you know what he is. You can't change him, nor can the kids. He will be what kind of father he will be and the only thing you can do is be the best parent YOU can be. Love the kids, support the kids, help them understand (or better send them to a therapist who can also help them with coping tools) and when your ex calls you, remember you aren't married to him and it isn't your responsibility to try to mediate between him and then kids. Write down the phrases you want to use and refer to it often 'I am so sorry that you that feel this way, have you talked to xxx?' 'I am sorry that you are you sad, here is the name of a great therapist xxxx' 'I am sorry you hate your job.' 'I am sorry you feel that you can't face so and so, here is the name of a good therapist.' blah blah blah. Best thing to do is not engage. You can be nice, but you don't have to engage one little bit. Statements that are closed ended that don't allow for a come back are the best thing you can do, even if you have to practice them in a mirror first.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 19:34:37 GMT
Thank you guys for your feedback. I have to set some boundaries. And I have to stop feeling sorry for him. I bend over backwards to appease him. I try to encourage my children to have a relationship with him. My DS is over it. And I really think that this was the last straw for my DD. I mostly have to work on my own heart and create some distance.
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Post by peasapie on Dec 26, 2016 19:58:27 GMT
I used to be sympathetic like you, and my ex used to call me with the same BS. And I felt sorry for him for a while.
Eventually I started seeing him for exactly the way he was - a weak person making excuses for his bad behavior and preying upon the good graces of others. My daughter stopped talking to him altogether once she got married and had kids, and even my son (who is the most compassionate of all of us) lost patience with his father and stopped taking his calls. Ex would then call me to complain that the kids didn't want to see him, hoping I would intervene.
I told him he needed to change himself and his behavior towards his children if he wanted to salvage any relationship with them. He needed to stop lying and making excuses because that fools no one, and needed to become reliable and present in their lives. Then I stopped taking his calls so he was forced to deal with them directly. Now, 14 years after the divorce, he is becoming the father he should have been all along. Hope you can eventually find a path to that as well, but it won't happen until he faces some very hard facts about himself.
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mlana
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,523
Jun 27, 2014 19:58:15 GMT
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Post by mlana on Dec 26, 2016 21:20:36 GMT
Thank you guys for your feedback. I have to set some boundaries. And I have to stop feeling sorry for him. I bend over backwards to appease him. I try to encourage my children to have a relationship with him. My DS is over it. And I really think that this was the last straw for my DD. I mostly have to work on my own heart and create some distance. Why? Why do you encourage them to have a relationship with someone who constantly hurts them and makes them feel like they aren't loved? Would you encourage them to have a relationship with one of their exes who acted like your ex? I doubt it. LOL I get the feeling your Mama Bear would come out and you'd be all about getting such a person out of their life. Just because he's their father doesn't give him the right to mistreat them. Don't teach them that just because you love someone or are kin to someone, you have to accept their bad behavior. From what you have posted previously, your son is absolutely right to stop seeing his dad. There is no reason he should continue to spend time with someone who mistreats him. This a a rational and intelligent decision. You remind me of my mom. She cannot stand to see someone hurt, even if they and their actions are directly responsible for the way they are being treated, even if they have hurt others even worse and paid no heed to the pain they caused. If she sees someone hurting, she has to fix it. Her version of fixing it usually meant that I was supposed to suck it up and deal with the hurt this person had dealt to me because they were hurting NOW, in front of her. Fuck that. When I became a mom, I made my DH and kids my top priority. If you hurt them, I cut you from their lives until you proved to me you wouldn't do it again. I was blunt about it, too. LOL No one ever had to wonder why our family wasn't at a gathering; they knew that so-and-so had done something that I felt wasn't in the best interests of my family and we wouldn't be back until that problem was solved. When I would talk with my kids about something that had happened when they played or visited with someone, I'd ask them if the joy of being with that person was greater than the pain that person had inflicted; I taught them to think about how they'd been treated and was it worth it to them to go back into that dynamic, knowing that the other person had probably not changed. Once they were old enough to really understand what I was asking, I accepted their answer. From your postings, I think your kids have made this evaluation and you need to accept their answer. In a nutshell, make your kids your priority. How they feel and the choice they are making should be your first and, IMHO, only concern at this point. If you can't deal with how YOU feel when your ex calls and sobs on your shoulder, if you then feel like YOU have to do something for him, then YOU need to stop taking his calls. You are making your kids suffer because you can't stand to see him hurt, so you need to stop putting yourself in situations where you can see (or hear) him hurt. Sounds simple, huh? You have my prayers and best wishes. I know that sometimes being a great mom (and you sure seem to be!) and being a good human being (caring for someone who has caused you such pain qualifies) can be a real battle. Good luck! Marcy
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 21:40:25 GMT
OK mlana. You got me. Your post really hit for me. I could not see that I may be hurting my kids more. You're right. I'm teaching them to put up with an asshole because he's their father. It isn't right. I have enabled him to mistreat them. What am I teaching them? Thank you for that post. That really shook me up.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Dec 26, 2016 22:11:28 GMT
Thank you guys for your feedback. I have to set some boundaries. And I have to stop feeling sorry for him. I bend over backwards to appease him. I try to encourage my children to have a relationship with him. My DS is over it. And I really think that this was the last straw for my DD. I mostly have to work on my own heart and create some distance. After chosing to divorce your ex-husband & creating a better life for you & your children, please stop making him a priority at the expense of your health & relationships with your children/husband. You cannot make your ex-husband prioritize his children over alcohol & be the father they deserve; he made that choice for himself years ago. Rather than encourage your children to have a relationship with their father, whom you know mistreats & disrespects them, I suggest that you help them accept him. Then, please allow them to determine what, if any, relationship they want with their father. For your own sanity & happiness, I encourage you to choose no relationship with your ex-husband; only speak to him in emergencies or major life events (eg graduations, weddings) involving your children. Once you do this, I think you'll feel a burden lifted from your life. Best wishes...
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,796
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Dec 26, 2016 22:24:48 GMT
OK mlana. You got me. Your post really hit for me. I could not see that I may be hurting my kids more. You're right. I'm teaching them to put up with an asshole because he's their father. It isn't right. I have enabled him to mistreat them. What am I teaching them? Thank you for that post. That really shook me up. I believe you taught your children to respect & give another chance to the people they love. Unfortunately, the blatant lack of involvement this year has prompted them to accept who he is & reassess whether to give him another chance. Please let each of them decide whether s/he wants to pursue a relationship with him & support this choice. Meanwhile, please choose to cut your ties with him (except in emergencies & major life events involving the children). I wish you & your children a lifetime of happiness!
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Post by jeremysgirl on Dec 26, 2016 22:36:32 GMT
OK mlana. You got me. Your post really hit for me. I could not see that I may be hurting my kids more. You're right. I'm teaching them to put up with an asshole because he's their father. It isn't right. I have enabled him to mistreat them. What am I teaching them? Thank you for that post. That really shook me up. I believe you taught your children to respect & give another chance to the people they love. Unfortunately, the blatant lack of involvement this year has prompted them to accept who he is & reassess whether to give him another chance. Please let each of them decide whether s/he wants to pursue a relationship with him & support this choice. Meanwhile, please choose to cut your ties with him (except in emergencies & major life events involving the children). I wish you & your children a lifetime of happiness! I just reading Marcy's post had an aha moment. I left him because I did not want to be treated that way. Then I turned around and expected them to accept it. I can't do that to them anymore. They do deserve to make their own choice. They are plenty old enough. Both of them see him for what he is. I guess I was having a hard time moving beyond the guilt of the fact that I stupidly chose him to be their father. I struggle with boundaries myself. I struggle with the idea that it doesn't mean I'm not a good person if I put my foot down and refuse to be mistreated myself. I am usually of the suck it up, put my own feelings aside, and pretend like everything is OK. I am going to try really hard to no longer feel sorry for him.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 26, 2016 22:39:00 GMT
I'm sorry. What a tough situation. Have you and your children gone to Al-Anon? They will help with learning how to deal with an alcoholic. Hugs, jeremysgirl.
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Post by verdepea on Dec 26, 2016 22:47:58 GMT
I think he is manipulating you too. The two conservsations are classic alcoholic mindset. First he yells at you and when that doesn't work he calls and whines about poor him.
You may consider taking your children to Alan-on. It would be helpful for them to understand the brain of an alcoholic and how they can have control over their lives but still love him.
He wouldn't be the same if he was sober. Once an alcoholic always and alcoholic. He can work on retraining his brain, emotions, and behavior. But it's all on him.
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