flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 19:48:54 GMT
I'm not a well-known pea/refupea, but I know there is a wealth of experience here and am curious as to your opinions. We have tried to google for specific answers in our state but have found nothing in the laws. I have a family member in the following situation:
Separated but not yet divorced, due to affair and request for divorce on the part of the husband. Children have primary residence with Mom but are with Dad 2 evenings per week & some time/overnights every other weekend.
Dad makes $5700 per month gross. Mom makes $1600 (gave up her good job to work part time so she could stay home and raise the children). Dad claims "financial hardship", although he seems to have no problem contributing double the minimum to his retirement account, taking his girlfriend out to dinner, buying a new iphone, etc. (Mom is on WIC and borrowing from her parents just to get necessities paid, has no cable or internet or money for "extras"). Dad is pushing hard to settle out of court and feels Mom is being unreasonable for not doing so (Dad's most recent motion was for him to pay daycare expenses only - no other child support or maintenance).
Motion for Temporary Settlement went to court a couple of weeks ago. Mom asked for, and was granted, Guideline amounts provided by the court in the county in which they filed, for both Child Support and Maintenance. This is standard operating procedure for divorces in that county. Dad testified in court on his own behalf, attesting to his "hardship" and "inability to pay". Made a complete fool of himself, including acknowledging to the judge that he intentionally wasn't paying what he was ordered to pay by the court in the initial temporary motion, and that he realized/acknowledged that he was in contempt of court order by doing so. Judge ruled for Guidelines without taking any time for deliberation (and acted like he would have been happy to grant more, had she asked, which she didn't because she felt it would be unethical) and also made note that the arrears would be addressed in the final settlement.
Dad now says that Mom has to provide diapers, food & clothing for the time that the children are in his care, because he is paying child support and "that's what child support is for". And because HARDSHIP. 
Mom's attorney says he's never had that happen before.
What say the Refupeas?
Oh - and does it change your response if I say that after court (temporary financial motion), Dad's attorney offered to write up the motion as was granted by the judge, and in the process of doing so ADDED THAT MOM WOULD SUPPLY THE DIAPERS, even though it had NOT been mentioned/addressed in court. Fortunately they caught it before it was signed, and her atty says it'll be thrown out.
Anyone know if that's unethical on the part of the attorney, and could they report him? Or is this just standard smarmy divorce lawyer tactics?
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Post by melanell on Aug 13, 2014 19:52:28 GMT
I don't know the legality of it, but I just think that I hope there never comes a day when your kids find out that their father wouldn't even buy them diapers for goodness sakes. (Not that he was unable to, but that he was more interested in sticking it to you than in caring for their needs while they were with him.)
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 13, 2014 20:03:59 GMT
I am in Michigan and I have yet to hear of a judge that says the non-custodial parent has to provide clothing while the children are in their care. It is the custodial parent who provides the clothing and kids bring and take it home with them when their visitation is over. Diapers and food, on the other hand, are the responsibility of whichever parent has the children. So I would send the child with clothing that needs to follow the child home, but I would not send the child with food or diapers. I knew of one situation where a mother wasn't sending the children with clothing and the court forced her to do so. I also know of one situation where a father was not sending the clothing back and the court forced him to do. I would think, though, that if he specifies in his divorce/custody/visitation papers that she is to supply that stuff, then she will have to supply it. I would not sign anything like that. It does seem like a shady tactic on the part of that lawyer.
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Post by birukitty on Aug 13, 2014 20:04:17 GMT
I think while the children are in HIS care he is responsible for him. That means food, clothing and diapers. It's actually very simple. They are his responsibility when they are with him.
Although I do remember packing my son's bag before he would go for overnight visitations with clothing-the clothes would travel back and forth-but diapers? He's too cheap to buy his kid diapers? Obviously he has to feed them when they are in his care so why couldn't diapers fall under the same category?
I am so sorry you are going through this. Dead beat Dads are the scum of the earth!
Debbie in MD.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 13, 2014 20:14:08 GMT
I've been divorced forever and between my own experience and the experiences of others, I have never heard of a situation (be it mother OR father) where one parent has to provide items of any sort for the other house based on the fact that child support is being paid.
I would probably make sure that all paper is well read prior to signing to make sure that there are no other shenanigans being slipped in.
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smartypants71
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Post by smartypants71 on Aug 13, 2014 20:20:10 GMT
My child was older so we didn't have a "diaper situation", so this is just my personal opinion and not a legal one. The dad is being utterly ridiculous and petty. I can see sending a diaper or two as a just in case, but that is it.
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marianne
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Jun 25, 2014 21:08:26 GMT
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Post by marianne on Aug 13, 2014 20:24:13 GMT
Dad can "say" all he wants to until the cows come home, but that doesn't make it so. I'm sorry you're having to deal with such an assholian mentality, but remind "dad" - and I use the term extremely loosely - that his child support covers the children while they're in your care; when they're in his care he is responsible for their necessities... which includes diapers.
I'd also remind him that since he's the one that wanted the divorce, he's going to have to deal with all the financial hardships that go along with that decision, just like you do. He played, he's got to pay.
I also would not be signing anything his lawyer drew up without consulting my own.
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Post by disneypal on Aug 13, 2014 21:01:48 GMT
Dad now says that Mom has to provide diapers, food & clothing for the time that the children are in his care, because he is paying child support and "that's what child support is for". And because HARDSHIP.
What say the Refupeas?
Oh my goodness - that is so petty. The way I see it, whoever has the children at the time is to make sure they are fed and clothed properly. If the father has them with him, he needs to make sure they have food to eat, clean clothes and diapers. When they are with their mother, she should do the same. Unreal! |
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Deleted
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Jun 23, 2024 19:52:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 21:22:26 GMT
Each parent provides for their own house. I would also make sure her lawyer is the one to draw up all paperwork. She needs to make sure she asks for her share of his retirement. Also, due to the inequality of incomes she should see about getting childcare, Dr. bills, etc. based on percentages. He makes over 3 times her income (which will change with support payments), but I would ask for at least a 60/40 split, if not more depending on the settlement. Tell her to go to survivinginfidelity.com to the divorce section and ask what she is entitled to. They may want to screw you in the settlement, but HE is no longer in control whether he likes it or not.
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Post by Zee on Aug 13, 2014 21:32:39 GMT
I don't know anything about the legal aspect of this situation, but I weep for the children involved. How petty, spiteful, and moronic can a pair of supposed adults be that they can't even figure out how to get along well enough that they'd go after each other for diapers? Each buys. Will he saty she needs to provide their food too? Will every decision for the next two decades have to involve a judge? I'm disgusted by people.
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Deleted
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Jun 23, 2024 19:52:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 21:56:17 GMT
So if the mom doesn't send diapers for him to use while the children are with him, will he let them stay in soiled diapers? Is that what he's saying? What a prince.  |
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 21:57:25 GMT
I don't know anything about the legal aspect of this situation, but I weep for the children involved. How petty, spiteful, and moronic can a pair of supposed adults be that they can't even figure out how to get along well enough that they'd go after each other for diapers? Each buys. Will he saty she needs to provide their food too? Will every decision for the next two decades have to involve a judge? I'm disgusted by people. Yep - food, formula, diapers & clothes. Because that's what child support is for. So if he's paying her to buy it, he shouldn't have to pay for it again.
She & her attorney are doing their best to be ethical about everything - she's not asking for a dime over the Guideline amounts, even though she could most likely get it. He's just trying to find every little thing he can to pick at her. Her atty says D should be relieved he got off as easily with the judge as he did, especially with the arrears. Oh - he's also been telling her he's having her followed, and texting her pictures of her van parked in front of friends' houses, when she doesn't have the children with her. That's a clear violation of the standard protection/privacy order that was in the initial filing.
He's always been fairly controlling, especially about financial things, but since this all started he's truly become a narcissist. He can accept absolutely NO responsibility for his behaviors or actions, and blames her for things that are the direct results of HIS choices & actions. Is this normal in this sort of situation?
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 22:01:00 GMT
I don't know the legality of it, but I just think that I hope there never comes a day when your kids find out that their father wouldn't even buy them diapers for goodness sakes. (Not that he was unable to, but that he was more interested in sticking it to you than in caring for their needs while they were with him.) Oh yes he has used this argument - variations of 'How are YOU going to explain to YOUR children that their father has no money because YOU took it all?' Umm....dude what were you expecting divorce would be like? You could run off with your girlfriend, keep the house, keep all your money, keep the kids and your wife would just wither away into nothing? Reality check. We were really hoping that court would change his outlook on things, especially when he cried hardship to the judge and it fell on deaf ears. Clearly we were hoping for too much.
Thank you all for your input and sharing your experiences. I really hate that so many people have to have gone through this. It sucks.
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Post by Zee on Aug 13, 2014 22:18:53 GMT
When my husband and I separated for a year, it was hard to be mature in our dealings with one another, but we never played games with the kids' well-being. I just hate to read about things like this. I can't imagine how I would have felt if my dad had insisted my mom send us with food or we wouldn't have eaten anything, simply because he paid child support.
Some parents are more childish than the children they're supposed to be raising.
I have a friend whose ex felt he shouldn't have to pay for their son's braces because he (the ex) had straight teeth and the crooked teeth must run in HER family. Lololol what a douche
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 22:24:10 GMT
Each parent provides for their own house. I would also make sure her lawyer is the one to draw up all paperwork. She needs to make sure she asks for her share of his retirement. Also, due to the inequality of incomes she should see about getting childcare, Dr. bills, etc. based on percentages. He makes over 3 times her income (which will change with support payments), but I would ask for at least a 60/40 split, if not more depending on the settlement. Tell her to go to survivinginfidelity.com to the divorce section and ask what she is entitled to. They may want to screw you in the settlement, but HE is no longer in control whether he likes it or not. I apologize that I don't know how to do a multi-quote 
This is great advice! And they are doing this - it is all figured in with the Guidelines that the county uses to arrive at the recommended financial settlements. It's supposed to prevent stuff like this from happening. I can't imagine where she'd be if she didn't have that to back her up.
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Post by magentapea on Aug 13, 2014 22:24:46 GMT
If mom HAS to provide diapers, I'd be sure to send only 2 cloth ones -- one to wear while the other is being washed. Bet that would make him change his tune pretty quickly.
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perumbula
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Post by perumbula on Aug 13, 2014 22:32:05 GMT
The father doesn't understand how child support works. That money is paid to the custodial parent while the child is in that home. It's very much based on how many days out of the year the child will be living with the custodial parent, so the days the child is with the other parent are not figured into child support amounts. Any needs the child has in the other parent's home need to be covered by that person.
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Aug 13, 2014 22:51:17 GMT
I don't know anything about the legal aspect of this situation, but I weep for the children involved. How petty, spiteful, and moronic can a pair of supposed adults be that they can't even figure out how to get along well enough that they'd go after each other for diapers? Each buys. Will he saty she needs to provide their food too? Will every decision for the next two decades have to involve a judge? I'm disgusted by people. While I see your point, I can see why mom is drawing lines in the sand now, because as you say above, he will take it further and further in an effort to shirk his parental duties so he can whine and dine his other woman. So I think he is them one who sucks here and she just wants to make sure he doesn't shirk his responsibility to his kids. |
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 22:53:02 GMT
If mom HAS to provide diapers, I'd be sure to send only 2 cloth ones -- one to wear while the other is being washed. Bet that would make him change his tune pretty quickly. BAWWWWHHHHHAAAAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! This is BRILLIANT!  |
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 22:56:10 GMT
I don't know anything about the legal aspect of this situation, but I weep for the children involved. How petty, spiteful, and moronic can a pair of supposed adults be that they can't even figure out how to get along well enough that they'd go after each other for diapers? Each buys. Will he saty she needs to provide their food too? Will every decision for the next two decades have to involve a judge? I'm disgusted by people. While I see your point, I can see why mom is drawing lines in the sand now, because as you say above, he will take it further and further in an effort to shirk his parental duties so he can whine and dine his other woman. So I think he is them one who sucks here and she just wants to make sure he doesn't shirk his responsibility to his kids. Yes, this is the case. And since even the judge's ruling isn't having an affect on what he feels is "reasonable", it wasn't possible to settle out of court. She tried. |
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Aug 13, 2014 22:58:00 GMT
I don't know anything about the legal aspect of this situation, but I weep for the children involved. How petty, spiteful, and moronic can a pair of supposed adults be that they can't even figure out how to get along well enough that they'd go after each other for diapers? Each buys. Will he saty she needs to provide their food too? Will every decision for the next two decades have to involve a judge? I'm disgusted by people. I feel like this isn't very fair to the mom in this case. She isn't being petty, spiteful and moronic...she's simply trying to protect herself. I was that person in my case against my DDs father. I wrote off thousands of dollars in back child support because I was trying to be the better person and not fight. You know where it got me? Nowhere. It didn't stop him from being a dickhead. It just made me even more behind financially because he was an ass that didn't think he should be financially responsible in any way. Guess where he is today? He has full custody of two of his other children and gets to see the other side of the coin. I recently saw him at DDs wedding (which he of course did not contribute a single penny for) and he said now that he has lived the other side of the equation he was completely embarrassed by the way he acted and apologized. Of course each parent should supply what is needed at their own home. Diapers included. |
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Post by rumplesnat on Aug 13, 2014 23:01:41 GMT
If mom HAS to provide diapers, I'd be sure to send only 2 cloth ones -- one to wear while the other is being washed. Bet that would make him change his tune pretty quickly. Ultimately, this is only punishing the child. Dad should be providing for the child's needs while the child is in his care, but if he's being a dick, deal with your attorney, but in the mean time, pick up the slack for your child's sake. My ex is a douche and because he's a slacker and he doesn't hold up his end of the agreement, I make sure that when my son visits, for example, he takes clothes that fit him (only visits a few days a month) so that he isn't wearing things that are too small because his dad doesn't give a shit. I would never embarrass my child to spite his father, because he isn't following our custody agreement, etc. My boy's feelings are much more important than my pride or the principle of the situation. |
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Post by gonewalkabout on Aug 13, 2014 23:13:52 GMT
As far as I know, when the children are in his care he has to have and provide the necessary and appropriate needs for his children. Child support was awarded to you for taking on the responsibility of taking care of the kids full time, not so he can take advantage. That's akin to claiming 'financial hardship' bull.
The lawyer had no right to put that other cr*p on the papers. It's smarmy and unethical. If I was you, I'd report it to the lawyer who should mention it to the judge.
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Post by roundtwo on Aug 13, 2014 23:16:12 GMT
Sadly this is very normal in this situation. I have yet to meet a cheating husband who has taken any responsibility for their actions and I am constantly amazed at the lengths they will go to in order to justify their actions. I truly wish they would give the same priority to their kids as they do their dicks. I am really glad your friend was smart enough to go through the courts instead of letting him railroad her. I've heard the child support argument made way too often as a reason for not supplying things for the kids. I really don't understand these kind of people - they are so desperate to make their former spouse suffer that they can't see who it is really hurting. |
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 13, 2014 23:20:00 GMT
If mom HAS to provide diapers, I'd be sure to send only 2 cloth ones -- one to wear while the other is being washed. Bet that would make him change his tune pretty quickly. Ultimately, this is only punishing the child. Dad should be providing for the child's needs while the child is in his care, but if he's being a dick, deal with your attorney, but in the mean time, pick up the slack for your child's sake. My ex is a douche and because he's a slacker and he doesn't hold up his end of the agreement, I make sure that when my son visits, for example, he takes clothes that fit him (only visits a few days a month) so that he isn't wearing things that are too small because his dad doesn't give a shit. I would never embarrass my child to spite his father, because he isn't following our custody agreement, etc. My boy's feelings are much more important than my pride or the principle of the situation. Yes I should have clarified - I think it's a brilliant answer, but only because I'm certain that he would not actually go through with not providing the child with diapers. He's just playing mind games. |
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marimoose
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Post by marimoose on Aug 13, 2014 23:28:16 GMT
The father doesn't understand how child support works. That money is paid to the custodial parent while the child is in that home. It's very much based on how many days out of the year the child will be living with the custodial parent, so the days the child is with the other parent are not figured into child support amounts. Any needs the child has in the other parent's home need to be covered by that person. This is exactly right! |
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Aug 13, 2014 23:39:12 GMT
My ex makes the same stupid "that's what child support is for argument." IMO, he should pay for all consumables at his house. However, I will never, ever put Alison in that awkward position, so I often send stuff that I think he should pay for.
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kay2rn
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Post by kay2rn on Aug 14, 2014 1:17:29 GMT
My ex even had to guts to ask for me to pay for half the cost of a vacation that he took with DS!!
He was responsible for diapers when he had the child. One time they came home and he commented that DS must have been sweating in the car seat, but NOBODY bothered to change his wet diaper ALL DAY!
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Aug 14, 2014 2:02:13 GMT
I have a friend who has learned the hard way that anything she sends with her daughter never comes back, whether it is clothes, shoes, etc. Her ex acted very similarly to the stingy dad listed in the OP.
I can see sending an extra set or two of clothes (probably cheaper quality clothes) to be kept at the dad's house rather than sending a change of clothes every time, and he should be responsible for the laundering of the spare clothing kept at his home. He should provide the diapers and food. However should and would are two different things. Is he going to leave a child in the same diaper for hours on end because he is too cheap to want to pay for those diapers? Is he going to starve the child?
The guy is being a total jerk. He should have his wages garnished by the courts.
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