Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 2:53:09 GMT
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Mar 26, 2017 2:58:58 GMT
I don't know how valid the study is considering it is such a small group of women. 160 people doesn't make much of a study. It is disappointing however.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 3:20:16 GMT
I don't know how valid the study is considering it is such a small group of women. 160 people doesn't make much of a study. It is disappointing however. Do you think if they polled a larger group of women the results would somehow change? I don't think the number of people polled in this study can change the research thats already been established about the topic |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 3:27:39 GMT
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Post by hollymolly on Mar 26, 2017 3:52:52 GMT
That is appalling. And yes, disheartening that women are picking and choosing who to help in identical situations.
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kate
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Post by kate on Mar 26, 2017 3:58:32 GMT
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Post by elaine on Mar 26, 2017 4:01:19 GMT
In terms of social power and attractiveness, the hierarchy has remained unchanged in the USAvsince I was in grad school in the late 80s / early 90s: ranked from most powerful/attractive to least - white men, men of color, white women, and finally women of color.
As a country, we finally elected someone down one step on the ladder to be President, but weren't ready yet to move yet another class up this past election.
The results of this study don't surprise me.
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Post by epeanymous on Mar 26, 2017 4:49:49 GMT
That is depressing as hell.
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Post by roberta on Mar 26, 2017 5:00:16 GMT
That is depressing as hell. Agree. |
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Post by mikklynn on Mar 26, 2017 11:46:00 GMT
It's very disheartening. I would hope racism would be less among each new generation.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 26, 2017 12:07:26 GMT
I don't belive it
The smallness of the study is an issue because there could be issues with either where they picked their people from or how they asked the questions
If they had studied people of my age I'd believe it but current undergrads 17-22? No I don't. Not in NE suburbia, no I just don't belive it. That's not what kids are like. They just don't categorize people in such hard and fast ways anymore. Young people's thinking about other people is more fluid and ever changing and very accepting.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 12:12:23 GMT
I don't belive it The smallness of the study is an issue because there could be issues with either where they picked their people from or how they asked the questions If they had studied people of my age I'd believe it but current undergrads 17-22? No I don't. Not in NE suburbia, no I just don't belive it. That's not what kids are like. They just don't categorize people in such hard and fast ways anymore. Young people's thinking about other people is more fluid and ever changing and very accepting. But this isn't a categorization it's a controlled study published in a respected journal with research from decades past cited. |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Mar 26, 2017 12:16:30 GMT
We have so far to go
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Mar 26, 2017 12:47:11 GMT
I don't know how valid the study is considering it is such a small group of women. 160 people doesn't make much of a study. It is disappointing however. Do you think if they polled a larger group of women the results would somehow change? I don't think the number of people polled in this study can change the research thats already been established about the topic I have no idea if the results would change. I understand that it is a valid psychology publication, I still say 160 is a small sample size. Save |
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Post by peasapie on Mar 26, 2017 12:53:10 GMT
It's an interesting study. I tried to see the raw data, but didn't see it at that link. I'd like to know, for example, how black women responded to both scenarios as well. Does it show that anywhere?
It certainly opens the door for the need for more research into gender and racial differences and whether we are more likely to help same-sex peers if they are also same racial background, vs a different racial background.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 13:32:57 GMT
It's an interesting study. I tried to see the raw data, but didn't see it at that link. I'd like to know, for example, how black women responded to both scenarios as well. Does it show that anywhere? It certainly opens the door for the need for more research into gender and racial differences and whether we are more likely to help same-sex peers if they are also same racial background, vs a different racial background. I am sure with a bit of googling more raw data can be found. As I said above while this particular study is new (Feb 2017) the subject isn't. I remember studying the victimization of enslaved women who were then treated like mistresses....this idea that black women cant be victims isn't new. |
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Post by Fairlyoddparent on Mar 26, 2017 13:44:01 GMT
Without looking further into the study, it seems that there are a lot of unknown variables involved. I think that culture and geographic location would be a couple things that would alter the outcome.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 14:02:03 GMT
It's an interesting study. I tried to see the raw data, but didn't see it at that link. I'd like to know, for example, how black women responded to both scenarios as well. Does it show that anywhere? It certainly opens the door for the need for more research into gender and racial differences and whether we are more likely to help same-sex peers if they are also same racial background, vs a different racial background. Oftentimes you'll need a membership to view raw data of a study but I'm sure its there. I'd love to know how black women would respond as well. I think the 2016 Presidential election exit polls could shed a lot of light on how black women would respond. |
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Post by hop2 on Mar 26, 2017 14:05:16 GMT
I don't belive it The smallness of the study is an issue because there could be issues with either where they picked their people from or how they asked the questions If they had studied people of my age I'd believe it but current undergrads 17-22? No I don't. Not in NE suburbia, no I just don't belive it. That's not what kids are like. They just don't categorize people in such hard and fast ways anymore. Young people's thinking about other people is more fluid and ever changing and very accepting. But this isn't a categorization it's a controlled study published in a respected journal with research from decades past cited. I don't doubt that was true in the past. But 160 out of thousands and thousands of women 16-22 is too small a sample. Perhaps I'm wrong but I just dont think that is how most women in that age group think. It's not how the ones I know act. And with a DD and a DS in that age range I'm sure I know 160 of them. They just don't seem to see people statically or as one thing. They see people in changing ways as people are not unchanging or static. This generation recognizes that so much more than previous generations. I don't buy their study of just 160 people because that's just not the world my kids live in. Don't mistake me, I know biases still exist. Bias exists but not in as prevalently as in previous generations. With one exception. Islamic bias is greater today than when I was that age. If their study question was would you stop your friend from going off alone at a party with 'Mark' or 'Mohamed' and results showed a bias toward 'Mohamed' i'd believe it. Even though that bias is most likely statistically wrong, it exists. They should probably be much more worried about their friend going off with a student althete no matter their name or religion. My kids did not grow up in segmented little homogeneous bubbles like my generation did. My kids grew up in the generation where Avery came to kindergarten with pony tails wearing dresses and now plays on the boys lacrosse team. And they won't bat an eye if Avery comes to junior prom in a tux or a dress and attends senior prom in the supposed opposite attire a year later. Because they just don't box people up so small anymore. This is the generation where their peers can be named Apple or Blue and you can have 3 Dakotas in your class and they'd all be different races and genders. I can't picture my little corner of the world is really so drastically different. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 14:16:23 GMT
But this isn't a categorization it's a controlled study published in a respected journal with research from decades past cited. I don't doubt that was true in the past. But 160 out of thousands and thousands of women 16-22 is too small a sample. Perhaps I'm wrong but I just dont think that is how most women in that age group think. It's not how the ones I know act. And with a DD and a DS in that age range I'm sure I know 160 of them. They just don't seem to see people statically or as one thing. They see people in changing ways as people are not unchanging or static. This generation recognizes that so much more than previous generations. I don't buy their study of just 160 people because that's just not the world my kids live in. Don't mistake me, I know biases still exist. Bias exists but not in as prevalently as in previous generations. With one exception. Islamic bias is greater today than when I was that age. If their study question was would you stop your friend from going off alone at a party with 'Mark' or 'Mohamed' and results showed a bias toward 'Mohamed' i'd believe it. Even though that bias is most likely statistically wrong, it exists. They should probably be much more worried about their friend going off with a student althete no matter their name or religion. My kids did not grow up in segmented little homogeneous bubbles like my generation did. My kids grew up in the generation where Avery came to kindergarten with pony tails wearing dresses and now plays on the boys lacrosse team. And they won't bat an eye if Avery comes to junior prom in a tux or a dress and attends senior prom in the supposed opposite attire a year later. Because they just don't box people up so small anymore. This is the generation where their peers can be named Apple or Blue and you can have 3 Dakotas in your class and they'd all be different races and genders. I can't picture my little corner of the world is really so drastically different. I'm glad you feel like things are changing in your circles. I agree the sample size in this particular study is small but no one should argue how the current treatment of black women isn't much better than this. I initialized what I just noticed after rereading the thread. Why do you buy the possible bias between Mohamed and Mark but disagree with a study regarding how white women might respond to a black woman in need? |
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Post by peasapie on Mar 26, 2017 16:18:58 GMT
It's an interesting study. I tried to see the raw data, but didn't see it at that link. I'd like to know, for example, how black women responded to both scenarios as well. Does it show that anywhere? It certainly opens the door for the need for more research into gender and racial differences and whether we are more likely to help same-sex peers if they are also same racial background, vs a different racial background. Oftentimes you'll need a membership to view raw data of a study but I'm sure its there. I'd love to know how black women would respond as well. I think the 2016 Presidential election exit polls could shed a lot of light on how black women would respond. I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 16:42:30 GMT
Oftentimes you'll need a membership to view raw data of a study but I'm sure its there. I'd love to know how black women would respond as well. I think the 2016 Presidential election exit polls could shed a lot of light on how black women would respond. I don't know what you mean. Can you elaborate? I'm sure there are a lot of think pieces that will articulate this better but the 2016 election neatly wraps in a bow how black women place their gender over race. Are you familiar with the hashtash #IguessI'mwithher? Hot sauce in my bag swag, her interview with Mary J, etc it was trending for months leading up to Nov. Mostly funny and lighthearted because I think if we really replayed her super predator comments we couldn't in good conscience vote for her. But we did. Placing some major concerns on the back burner with the hopes of avoiding the shit show 45 is masterminding. We showed up. We always do. We show up even though no one ever shows up for us. |
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 26, 2017 16:53:11 GMT
I'd like to see the study replicated with a larger sample. I'd also like to see it done with samples of other ethnicities.
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Post by peasapie on Mar 26, 2017 17:04:37 GMT
That was in interesting breakdown of voting results, Olan . Thanks for sharing. I'm sure it must feel as if no one ever shows up for black women. I hope that isn't true. But I think this topic is one that we all need to keep discussing and not be afraid to talk about. There is a fear many white people have - that we will say the wrong thing in trying to have a conversation - and it can keep some troubling things in the dark. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 17:28:12 GMT
That was in interesting breakdown of voting results, Olan . Thanks for sharing. I'm sure it must feel as if no one ever shows up for black women. I hope that isn't true. But I think this topic is one that we all need to keep discussing and not be afraid to talk about. There is a fear many white people have - that we will say the wrong thing in trying to have a conversation - and it can keep some troubling things in the dark. I can understand that being a fear of yours. Its my hope that people will begin having even the most uncomfortable of conversations because the divide is only increasing. Its the right thing to do and at some point we've got to ask whats the harm. |
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Post by Sam on Mar 26, 2017 20:34:50 GMT
Firstly, I don't care how academic this study was or where it was published - 160 participants is ridiculously low.
Secondly, I may have missed this, but see no reference to the number of campuses involved or in which states.
Thirdly, there was no control group - in the most basic sense, meaning black women asked the same questions with the same names (or, in fact, giving a more 'rough' name than Laura to the white girl) - that could have provided some interesting collaboration or counterpoint, don't you think? If 'Laura' is supposedly the 'control condition' I also think this is flawed.
Fourthly, ANY PAPER STATING "As expected, participants assigned to the Black potential victim condition....." is starting from a biased viewpoint and, therefore, subject to manipulation of data or skewed questioning techniques.
The 'Actual Journal' link is a poor summary to data I am unable to access, so I have to say that I can not agree with this in the absence of empirical data available to all.
I don't necessarily disbelieve this based on hearsay or attitude, I just don't see enough here to validate it on the scale needed to state that it is a fact.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 26, 2017 21:23:20 GMT
Firstly, I don't care how academic this study was or where it was published - 160 participants is ridiculously low. Secondly, I may have missed this, but see no reference to the number of campuses involved or in which states. Thirdly, there was no control group - in the most basic sense, meaning black women asked the same questions with the same names (or, in fact, giving a more 'rough' name than Laura to the white girl) - that could have provided some interesting collaboration or counterpoint, don't you think? If 'Laura' is supposedly the 'control condition' I also think this is flawed. Fourthly, ANY PAPER STATING "As expected, participants assigned to the Black potential victim condition....." is starting from a biased viewpoint and, therefore, subject to manipulation of data or skewed questioning techniques. The 'Actual Journal' link is a poor summary to data I am unable to access, so I have to say that I can not agree with this in the absence of empirical data available to all. I don't necessarily disbelieve this based on hearsay or attitude, I just don't see enough here to validate it on the scale needed to state that it is a fact. Thanks for weighing in |
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Post by eleezybeth on Mar 26, 2017 21:46:10 GMT
Fascinating and while not new, I too would like to see their data and their sample selection. I think this country is a very large country with some very, very diverse areas and some that aren't so. I also think education on bystander intervention is more important than is originally glossed over. Some college campuses are still quite homogeneous and the thought of intervening with a black female might not cross the friendship boundaries of someone 16 - 22. Where as where I live, diversity isn't seen as that qualifier. Like a PP, my children's classes complete the skin tone rainbow with a multitude of nationalities. They would intervene because of friendship which might not be true where homogenous groups are more prevalent.
While I do believe there is merit to the study, I need to know more. I also agree that the abstract was written so poorly that it made me think that perhaps their biases were met.
We have a lot of work to do in this country. Hopefully we can teach the next generations better.
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Post by peasapie on Mar 26, 2017 22:22:41 GMT
Firstly, I don't care how academic this study was or where it was published - 160 participants is ridiculously low. Secondly, I may have missed this, but see no reference to the number of campuses involved or in which states. Thirdly, there was no control group - in the most basic sense, meaning black women asked the same questions with the same names (or, in fact, giving a more 'rough' name than Laura to the white girl) - that could have provided some interesting collaboration or counterpoint, don't you think? If 'Laura' is supposedly the 'control condition' I also think this is flawed. Fourthly, ANY PAPER STATING "As expected, participants assigned to the Black potential victim condition....." is starting from a biased viewpoint and, therefore, subject to manipulation of data or skewed questioning techniques. The 'Actual Journal' link is a poor summary to data I am unable to access, so I have to say that I can not agree with this in the absence of empirical data available to all. I don't necessarily disbelieve this based on hearsay or attitude, I just don't see enough here to validate it on the scale needed to state that it is a fact. This isn't the first time I've heard that this happens, which is likely why they "expected" that result. I'm sure you will agree that it is something worth exploring more fully, wouldn't you? First studies usually just lead to better, more complete studies. I agree with eleezybeth, that it also may depend on age and geographical area. |
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Jun 29, 2017 20:40:25 GMT
All morning I have been thinking about the question posed by this study. I feel certain I would say something to intervene in this situation, whether it be Laura or LaToya involved (and whether the man is Jason or Jamal). I imagine my first step would be to start a conversation with either or both parties to clarify and to delay. I would proceed from there. So in trying to challenge myself, I wondered: What would keep me from intervening? Here's what I came up with: 1. If I felt the man involved was an immediate threat to me or others, I would not intervene alone - I would ask others to help me, or call 911 or local security guards. 2. If I had seen a previous intimate boyfriend/girlfriend relationship between the two, I would hesitate to intervene. I would still start a conversation with the two. I would likely draw her friends into the conversation to see if collectively we could change directions. I would offer to give the girl a ride home or to call her a cab. But I would hesitate to call authorities if the two had an existing relationship - it would feel like I was interfering rather than intervening. Then again, I am not a college student. I think of these two heading off for a bedroom, and my reaction comes from my place as a mom. I tried to think more deeply about my reaction based on the race of the victim, and I just can't come up with any other answer. That was in interesting breakdown of voting results, Olan . Thanks for sharing. I'm sure it must feel as if no one ever shows up for black women. I hope that isn't true. But I think this topic is one that we all need to keep discussing and not be afraid to talk about. There is a fear many white people have - that we will say the wrong thing in trying to have a conversation - and it can keep some troubling things in the dark. I can understand that being a fear of yours. Its my hope that people will begin having even the most uncomfortable of conversations because the divide is only increasing. Its the right thing to do and at some point we've got to ask whats the harm. I will likely be getting myself in trouble, but I would love to have a conversation. I am "that" person who gives random but genuine compliments to strangers I pass in the grocery store. (Not every moment. Maybe once or twice a week.) I might catch someone's eye and say, "That color is beautiful on you." "Cute hat!" "I love your shoes!" Not necessarily trying to start a conversation (although sometimes one will start), just passing along a sincere compliment with a smile. I love it when strangers do this to me - it will make my day! I hope it will make others happy too  But with the current conversation on race relations in our country, I have grown hesitant. Let's say I see a black woman wearing a mustard yellow blouse which is absolutely stunning on her. "That color is beautiful on you" has suddenly taken on all kinds of implications. Or has it? Am I overthinking? Can I just go about my day and continue to offer random compliments regardless of the race of the individual? What is the alternative? Should I limit my compliments to women of my own race? Stop giving compliments at all? I once shared a flight to Hawaii with a young woman heading to a military posting. She was young and nervous about her first-ever flight. She had messed up her travel plans and was a little afraid of facing army discipline. We chatted the entire 4 1/2 hour flight and I tried to put her at ease with the whole jet plane thing. As we first got to talking, I complimented her hair - a mass of beautiful coppery braids. I think back on that now and wonder: Was that a racist thing to say? (Before you ask, I did *not* touch her hair. I offered the compliment from my own seat.) And one more question. Once or twice when I have tried to catch someone's eye with a smile, they have studiously ignored me. Both times it was a woman of color. And suddenly I thought, "Does she think I am staring at her? Does she think I am hostile to her?" And I feel horrendously guilty because of course the woman in question has no way of know of my good intentions or my admiration for her shoes. If this is too far afield, Olan, I can move these comments to a new thread. |
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