RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,561
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Jun 29, 2017 20:57:59 GMT
So in trying to challenge myself, I wondered: What would keep me from intervening? I realized that I would likely be the clueless one who didn't even notice this happening, unless perhaps it was someone I had been talking to just before this happened. (I'm not saying this proudly, I just tend to withdraw into my own little area at a party/in a crowd.) If I did notice, I think my reactions are in line with scrapbookwriter. I honestly don't think race would factor into it, but I do acknowledge that it's hard to recognize any internal bias. My 2 cents on the compliment questions from scrapbookwriter...I think complimenting someone's hair is fine, as long as you're aware of your word choices. "You look so exotic!" is not the way to say it, unless you know someone has just been dressing for a costume party or something. But "Your hair is just beautiful," or "That color is gorgeous on you!" or "Your smile just lights up your face," are fine, IMO.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 29, 2017 21:19:03 GMT
I don't belive it The smallness of the study is an issue because there could be issues with either where they picked their people from or how they asked the questions If they had studied people of my age I'd believe it but current undergrads 17-22? No I don't. Not in NE suburbia, no I just don't belive it. That's not what kids are like. They just don't categorize people in such hard and fast ways anymore. Young people's thinking about other people is more fluid and ever changing and very accepting. I used to think the same thing. I live in MD in an area with a high level of college graduates. The more I see of people around me and see of young people I see that racism is alive and well. My son is Asian and the level of racist actions towards him bu other young people is still not "uncommon." He is not alone.
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Post by megop on Jun 29, 2017 22:21:52 GMT
I'd like to see the study replicated with a larger sample. I'd also like to see it done with samples of other ethnicities. I read the summary and agree fully with the above. A reverse study would have been interesting to include as well in my mind. Wondering if there was any further data weighting the level of hierarchy between race, culture and gender.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Jun 30, 2017 0:07:34 GMT
Reading the abstract and the article thus doesn't sound like s real study. Too much was missing. The sample size was too small and there wasn't enough information on how the data was collected to sound like a valid study. When I was in college we had to have st least 200 people just got our studies and preferably more. You also include more information than what was in the "article" about how you set up a study and pick your women and so much more.
I can't imagine in a real situation that race would make a real difference unless the person felt more threatened by the guy with the black wonen but then you would think they would just make more noise and get others involved. I would hope that someone would speak up and come to a women's aid no matter their race or any thing else.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,994
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Jun 30, 2017 0:33:56 GMT
Sadly, this issue must not even warrant properly-conducted studies. Conclusions cannot be drawn from a sample size of 160 people or the lack of information on how the participants were selected, questions asked, etc. In my experience, women rarely look out for one another, view others as competition, & often do not want to get involved (or even reports that happen to them!) for fear of embarrassment or retribution. Like this study, recent events (eg Penn State fraternity hazing) also remind us that young people can lack humanity. ...Don't mistake me, I know biases still exist...They should probably be much more worried about their friend going off with a student althete no matter their name or religion... Sadly, you proved your point!
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jun 30, 2017 1:48:24 GMT
All morning I have been thinking about the question posed by this study. I feel certain I would say something to intervene in this situation, whether it be Laura or LaToya involved (and whether the man is Jason or Jamal). I imagine my first step would be to start a conversation with either or both parties to clarify and to delay. I would proceed from there. So in trying to challenge myself, I wondered: What would keep me from intervening? Here's what I came up with: 1. If I felt the man involved was an immediate threat to me or others, I would not intervene alone - I would ask others to help me, or call 911 or local security guards. 2. If I had seen a previous intimate boyfriend/girlfriend relationship between the two, I would hesitate to intervene. I would still start a conversation with the two. I would likely draw her friends into the conversation to see if collectively we could change directions. I would offer to give the girl a ride home or to call her a cab. But I would hesitate to call authorities if the two had an existing relationship - it would feel like I was interfering rather than intervening. Then again, I am not a college student. I think of these two heading off for a bedroom, and my reaction comes from my place as a mom. I tried to think more deeply about my reaction based on the race of the victim, and I just can't come up with any other answer. I can understand that being a fear of yours. Its my hope that people will begin having even the most uncomfortable of conversations because the divide is only increasing. Its the right thing to do and at some point we've got to ask whats the harm. I will likely be getting myself in trouble, but I would love to have a conversation. I am "that" person who gives random but genuine compliments to strangers I pass in the grocery store. (Not every moment. Maybe once or twice a week.) I might catch someone's eye and say, "That color is beautiful on you." "Cute hat!" "I love your shoes!" Not necessarily trying to start a conversation (although sometimes one will start), just passing along a sincere compliment with a smile. I love it when strangers do this to me - it will make my day! I hope it will make others happy too But with the current conversation on race relations in our country, I have grown hesitant. Let's say I see a black woman wearing a mustard yellow blouse which is absolutely stunning on her. "That color is beautiful on you" has suddenly taken on all kinds of implications. Or has it? Am I overthinking? Can I just go about my day and continue to offer random compliments regardless of the race of the individual? What is the alternative? Should I limit my compliments to women of my own race? Stop giving compliments at all?I once shared a flight to Hawaii with a young woman heading to a military posting. She was young and nervous about her first-ever flight. She had messed up her travel plans and was a little afraid of facing army discipline. We chatted the entire 4 1/2 hour flight and I tried to put her at ease with the whole jet plane thing. As we first got to talking, I complimented her hair - a mass of beautiful coppery braids. I think back on that now and wonder: Was that a racist thing to say? (Before you ask, I did *not* touch her hair. I offered the compliment from my own seat.) And one more question. * Once or twice when I have tried to catch someone's eye with a smile, they have studiously ignored me. Both times it was a woman of color. And suddenly I thought, "Does she think I am staring at her? Does she think I am hostile to her?" And I feel horrendously guilty because of course the woman in question has no way of know of my good intentions or my admiration for her shoes. If this is too far afield, Olan , I can move these comments to a new thread. I grew up where in an area where many times I had to overlook blatantly racist actions and see gosh I don't know what you'd call it...maybe intent. My best friends grandfather was incredibly racist. I spent many weekends at his home. She didn't lived with him we just liked his space for sleepovers. He would cut the power to prevent us from using AOL at night or so we thought. It was probably a sign of early dementia which could explain why he allowed his racist to show. I even feel like I need to add that he was mostly just upset his granddaughter was dating a black kid not that she had a black girlfriend. This is the same friend I went to a KKK fest went. I thought I looked especially hot until I saw her aunt remove a pistol from her purse and immediately rush us out the fairgrounds. That aunts husband almost always wore a "rebel flag" bandana and taught me how to eat a crab. I say all that to say if we have a pleasant conversation even a really racist statement would get a slight eye raise. So if someone had really good intentions and said something unlike any example you listed (hair compliments, color looks great on you etc) it still wouldn't preclude me from enjoying your company on a flight. You know when white people say they have black friends? Well I have racist white friends. Now I've distanced myself as of late but before I absolutely tolerated them. Hell I even managed to marry a racist white man. *I have been guilty of this. It was a daily struggle for me to meet the eye of a white women and offer up a genuine smile after November. You would have thought I got a silent nod from the white woman collective about our vote and was betrayed personally by each and every one of you. That amount of anger was fucking with a lot of areas of my life so I had to make an intentional choice to make joy not anger my center. I also think social justice stuff begins with women. I think *waffling so this may be past tense thought* we have a responsibility to each other. I don't see/feel white women holding up their end of the sisterhood bargain.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jun 30, 2017 1:53:24 GMT
I once pulled up to a gas station completely full of people. I saw a black woman kicking another black woman - stilletto heel first. She had her down on the ground kicking her with her heel.
The place was packed. *I* was the person that walked over and stopped her. I started screaming at the woman and she took off with her boyfriend (also black, fyi). I stayed with the woman on the ground until the cops came and helped her. They were co-workers btw.
The only person that approached me after was another black man who said "I thought it was someone beating up on his girlfriend." Like that was acceptable.
Yeah, so the study really means shit to me. But I'm just some racist white woman though soooooo....
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Post by peace on Jun 30, 2017 2:35:36 GMT
If you are white and either do not 1. believe the results or 2. are shocked - please wake up. PLEASE research the systemic racism that is alive and well in this country. PLEASE follow women of color on social media. PLEASE. You are living in a bubble. I used to live in that same bubble. What I am telling you is it is true. And not shocking- at least not to people that have been dealing with it while we don't pay attention. We have not been listening. That is because of our privilege -we didn't believe. It isn't our world and we aren't surrounded by it. We can CHOOSE to pay attention or not. Ask yourself: What would you do differently today if this were all 100% true? Now go do that.
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,596
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Jun 30, 2017 2:54:37 GMT
That study made me feel sick to my stomach. And I totally understand wanting to push the results away (Sample size is too small! Things would be different if *I* were there! etc.), but I have to echo peace - she said what needs to be said.
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Post by megop on Jun 30, 2017 3:02:44 GMT
If you are white and either do not 1. believe the results or 2. are shocked - please wake up. PLEASE research the systemic racism that is alive and well in this country. PLEASE follow women of color on social media. PLEASE. You are living in a bubble. I used to live in that same bubble. What I am telling you is it is true. And not shocking- at least not to people that have been dealing with it while we don't pay attention. We have not been listening. That is because of our privilege -we didn't believe. It isn't our world and we aren't surrounded by it. We can CHOOSE to pay attention or not. Ask yourself: What would you do differently today if this were all 100% true? Now go do that. Questioning the validity and subsequent conclusions presented in an article regarding this one particular study and commenting on the science of conducting studies, by no means translates to thinking racism doesn't exist. At least for me. Can't speak for others.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jun 30, 2017 12:33:28 GMT
If you are white and either do not 1. believe the results or 2. are shocked - please wake up. PLEASE research the systemic racism that is alive and well in this country. PLEASE follow women of color on social media. PLEASE. You are living in a bubble. I used to live in that same bubble. What I am telling you is it is true. And not shocking- at least not to people that have been dealing with it while we don't pay attention. We have not been listening. That is because of our privilege -we didn't believe. It isn't our world and we aren't surrounded by it. We can CHOOSE to pay attention or not. Ask yourself: What would you do differently today if this were all 100% true? Now go do that. Questioning the validity and subsequent conclusions presented in an article regarding this one particular study and commenting on the science of conducting studies, by no means translates to thinking racism doesn't exist. At least for me. Can't speak for others. But if we aren't disputing that blatant racism exists wouldnt disputing this study take away from the actual work of things. I noticed here people attacked the study and in the other thread they attacked my style of posting. No one wanted to discuss that study. I wonder why?
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Jun 30, 2017 15:01:20 GMT
I grew up where in an area where many times I had to overlook blatantly racist actions and see gosh I don't know what you'd call it...maybe intent. My best friends grandfather was incredibly racist. I spent many weekends at his home. She didn't lived with him we just liked his space for sleepovers. He would cut the power to prevent us from using AOL at night or so we thought. It was probably a sign of early dementia which could explain why he allowed his racist to show. I even feel like I need to add that he was mostly just upset his granddaughter was dating a black kid not that she had a black girlfriend. This is the same friend I went to a KKK fest went. I thought I looked especially hot until I saw her aunt remove a pistol from her purse and immediately rush us out the fairgrounds. That aunts husband almost always wore a "rebel flag" bandana and taught me how to eat a crab. I say all that to say if we have a pleasant conversation even a really racist statement would get a slight eye raise. So if someone had really good intentions and said something unlike any example you listed (hair compliments, color looks great on you etc) it still wouldn't preclude me from enjoying your company on a flight. You know when white people say they have black friends? Well I have racist white friends. Now I've distanced myself as of late but before I absolutely tolerated them. Hell I even managed to marry a racist white man. Olan, I'm not sure I understand your answer. Are you saying that my compliments are acceptable only because I have good intentions? Or are you saying that you have overlooked racism in the past because of good intentions? I am uncertain.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jul 1, 2017 21:58:59 GMT
I grew up where in an area where many times I had to overlook blatantly racist actions and see gosh I don't know what you'd call it...maybe intent. My best friends grandfather was incredibly racist. I spent many weekends at his home. She didn't lived with him we just liked his space for sleepovers. He would cut the power to prevent us from using AOL at night or so we thought. It was probably a sign of early dementia which could explain why he allowed his racist to show. I even feel like I need to add that he was mostly just upset his granddaughter was dating a black kid not that she had a black girlfriend. This is the same friend I went to a KKK fest went. I thought I looked especially hot until I saw her aunt remove a pistol from her purse and immediately rush us out the fairgrounds. That aunts husband almost always wore a "rebel flag" bandana and taught me how to eat a crab. I say all that to say if we have a pleasant conversation even a really racist statement would get a slight eye raise. So if someone had really good intentions and said something unlike any example you listed (hair compliments, color looks great on you etc) it still wouldn't preclude me from enjoying your company on a flight. You know when white people say they have black friends? Well I have racist white friends. Now I've distanced myself as of late but before I absolutely tolerated them. Hell I even managed to marry a racist white man. Olan, I'm not sure I understand your answer. Are you saying that my compliments are acceptable only because I have good intentions? Or are you saying that you have overlooked racism in the past because of good intentions? I am uncertain. If your intention is to compliment someone, even if you flub, most black people will go with the intent of the person they are interacting with over being offended.
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 4,053
Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Oct 23, 2019 0:33:23 GMT
For posterity when someone undoubtedly complains about the bumping threads Whatever floats your boat....
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