freebird
Drama Llama

'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Mar 31, 2017 19:10:46 GMT
I have a friend (no really) who has a daughter age 12.5. She's very active in dance and very talented. Her father lives about 3 hours away and she goes there every other weekend and then in the summer she's with her mom every other weekend.
Daughter wants to go to nationals for dance in the summer. Mom asked dad if she could take all her summer days at once so daughter can go to nationals. Dad gets a bug up his ass and says no UNLESS, mom will give him copies of all their cellphone bills, instagram, snapchat, etc to prove that mom is not letting daughter talk to dad's family (apparently there are issues). Mom has respected that so far but says that the family is actually good people but has not let the daughter have contact while in her care.
Daughter is very upset, confronted dad (which is a big deal for her) and dad repeated that if she hand over all their communication information, she could go.
Does dad actually have a leg to stand on?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:22:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 19:14:09 GMT
What an asshat....honestly having gone through similar things, it was easier for me to go to court and my son's lawyer presented it to the judge...who promptly told my ex he was an asshat!
Sorry don't know if this helps or not.
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Post by epeanymous on Mar 31, 2017 19:20:01 GMT
Custody law varies wildly by state, so if this is an actual legal question, she'd have to consult a family law attorney in her state. Is she willing to go to court to try to force him to change the custody arrangement? Because if he won't otherwise do it voluntarily, I think that's her other option.
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freebird
Drama Llama

'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Mar 31, 2017 19:22:27 GMT
Custody law varies wildly by state, so if this is an actual legal question, she'd have to consult a family law attorney in her state. Is she willing to go to court to try to force him to change the custody arrangement? Because if he won't otherwise do it voluntarily, I think that's her other option. yes, they will probably end up in court over this. My friend said that if they do, EVERYTHING will be addressed again including child support (which hasn't be in many years). Apparently he doesn't like it when women stand up to him so both friend and daughter are going to be pushing his buttons. I just thought it was weird about the cell phone bills, I've never heard of a judge requiring that before. I'd think that would take a whole different order against the grandparents/family to make that happen.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Mar 31, 2017 19:26:34 GMT
I would be really tempted to give him what he asked for - redacted enough that he could see specifically what he asked for and nothing more. For instance, print the darn Instagram feed, take a black sharpie to everything except who is being communicated with and hand that over. Likewise, he can have a cell phone bill with only area codes or first-digits of phone numbers showing.
That said, she really needs to go back to the visitation agreement. Mine is very clear that summer is divided equally. We're to communicate about dates and put our requests in writing. This is my favorite part: if one of us requests dates in March and the other doesn't, the person who put in their requests gets their dates. That was put in specifically so that I could plan well in advance and put down deposits, knowing that I'm never going to get dates from her dad and that he would keep waffling until the last minute if he could. It also says that we will allow Alison to participate in summer activities to whatever extent is reasonable, given vacation plans.
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amom23
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,635
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Mar 31, 2017 19:27:03 GMT
Your friend needs to contact her lawyer. Custody agreements tend to change as kids get older and become involved with school and activities.
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Post by epeanymous on Mar 31, 2017 19:27:43 GMT
Custody law varies wildly by state, so if this is an actual legal question, she'd have to consult a family law attorney in her state. Is she willing to go to court to try to force him to change the custody arrangement? Because if he won't otherwise do it voluntarily, I think that's her other option. yes, they will probably end up in court over this. My friend said that if they do, EVERYTHING will be addressed again including child support (which hasn't be in many years). Apparently he doesn't like it when women stand up to him so both friend and daughter are going to be pushing his buttons. I just thought it was weird about the cell phone bills, I've never heard of a judge requiring that before. I'd think that would take a whole different order against the grandparents/family to make that happen. I don't think a judge would order one party to turn over communications evidence to another as part of an ongoing custody agreement; I haven't practiced family law, but that sounds inconsistent with what parties generally do. It would require her to reveal so much about who she *does* contact. It is possible that it (for whatever reason) no contact with his relatives was part of the custody agreement, the judge would order her to turn over the records if there was some allegation she had violated the agreement (and then perhaps to the judge).
Sounds like from what you have posted that there are deeper problems here and she's going to end up back in court anyway. Good luck to your friend.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:22:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 19:29:37 GMT
I have absolutely nothing to do with my moms side of the family. They are bat shit IMO but I know my kids aren't in danger if they see their grandparent/aunt/cousins. So my ex knows if the kids want to see them it's on his time, not mine, and I'm not to be discussed. He respects that.
This guy, I would think he needs something legal against his family to stop his ex from communicating with them. It's a free country she can talk to them if she wants and probably already does and makes their daughter lie.
I see a trip to court in her future because I don't think what he's trying to pull is legal.
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gorgeouskid
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,517
Aug 16, 2014 15:21:28 GMT
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Post by gorgeouskid on Mar 31, 2017 19:32:07 GMT
He is a dumb.
Sure, here's my (fake) Instagram password! Here's my (burner) cell phone bill. Here is my (fake) Snapchat feed!
Teens have been faking out parents for years. He's obviously a control freak and deserves to be scammed. As much as I don't think capitulating is a good thing, this might save her lawyer fees and time wasted in court.
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freebird
Drama Llama

'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Mar 31, 2017 19:32:44 GMT
I have absolutely nothing to do with my moms side of the family. They are bat shit IMO but I know my kids aren't in danger if they see their grandparent/aunt/cousins. So my ex knows if the kids want to see them it's on his time, not mine, and I'm not to be discussed. He respects that. This guy, I would think he needs something legal against his family to stop his ex from communicating with them. It's a free country she can talk to them if she wants and probably already does and makes their daughter lie.I see a trip to court in her future because I don't think what he's trying to pull is legal. Actually, no, she does not lie about it. Mom/Friend has chatted with his sister, but has not allowed daughter to communicate with them. She is not a liar, and she definitely would not lie to me about it.
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Post by elaine on Mar 31, 2017 19:41:01 GMT
Going to Nationals and communicating with Dad's family are two completely separate things, unless Nationals are being held where Dad's family lives and he is worried that a side-trip to see them is also in the works.
Your friend needs to clearly respond that he is trying to tie two things together that aren't related. If insists on continuing on confounding the two, she should just take him to court.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,316
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Mar 31, 2017 19:48:12 GMT
I have told my minor children (one this same exact age) that at any time, for any reason, myself or their father can ask for access to any and all social media activity. I have on occasion glanced at who they are messaging but that's about it so far. If they attempt to hide things, or lie they will lose their devices. To me 12 year olds don't really have much right to privacy as far as social media and online activity goes. Do I think his reason for asking is awful? Yes. But as a father I think he has the right to ask without even having to give a reason other then internet/social media safety and good parenting.
I do hope they can get it worked out with the national dance thing. One thing I was so impressed with my sister and her ex was their willingness to swap out weekends etc to accommodate a concert or hunting season etc. They always put their son before their dislike of each other.
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freebird
Drama Llama

'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Mar 31, 2017 19:51:40 GMT
I have told my minor children (one this same exact age) that at any time, for any reason, myself or their father can ask for access to any and all social media activity. I have on occasion glanced at who they are messaging but that's about it so far. If they attempt to hide things, or lie they will lose their devices. To me 12 year olds don't really have much right to privacy as far as social media and online activity goes. Do I think his reason for asking is awful? Yes. But as a father I think he has the right to ask without even having to give a reason other then internet/social media safety and good parenting. I do hope they can get it worked out with the national dance thing. One thing I was so impressed with my sister and her ex was their willingness to swap out weekends etc to accommodate a concert or hunting season etc. They always put their son before their dislike of each other. I agree on the social media part. I think that a minor really doesn't have much privacy. It's the cellphone bill that gets me. It's not the daughter's bill, it's my friends bill. He doesn't have a right to see everyone that SHE is calling.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,156
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Mar 31, 2017 19:52:33 GMT
Your friend needs to contact her lawyer. Custody agreements tend to change as kids get older and become involved with school and activities. I agree with this, time to revisit the custody agreement so that it fits their lives better now. I wouldn't give in to his demands unless I absolutely had no other choice. If she gives in now, he's going to keep demanding things every time she needs something or wants a change. Better to deal with it head on with her lawyer.
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Post by littlemama on Mar 31, 2017 20:00:47 GMT
Dance is an extracurricular, so I wouldn't think this has anything to do with custody, or with mom needing to use all of her days at once. Isn't it the responsibility of both parents to get the child to whatever extracurriculars are scheduled? So, if dad doesn't want mom to go, he can take her. (yes, I am totally oversimplifying this, but it is another way of looking at it)
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Post by kernriver on Mar 31, 2017 20:03:13 GMT
Textbook case of putting the kid in the middle. Way yo go, Dad!
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Post by librarylady on Mar 31, 2017 20:07:15 GMT
Sad that the child is being jerked around by parents.
I am sure a trip to court is in the future.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,316
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Mar 31, 2017 20:11:53 GMT
Your friend needs to contact her lawyer. Custody agreements tend to change as kids get older and become involved with school and activities. I agree with this, time to revisit the custody agreement so that it fits their lives better now. I wouldn't give in to his demands unless I absolutely had no other choice. If she gives in now, he's going to keep demanding things every time she needs something or wants a change. Better to deal with it head on with her lawyer.You know what is the sad part? There is probably someone advising him the same thing. Don't given in to this change in the summer custody agreement, give in now and she (the mom) will be demanding other changes. The poor kid.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 31, 2017 20:16:48 GMT
I'd start legal proceeding NOW as we know the courts can move slowly. I'd also offer up the social media accounts and if, and only if, only the dd usage shows up on the cell phone bill. But what I would to is black out a good part of the numbers, so that he only sees that it isn't his family.
I'd really want to tell him right back that either he let her go or we would start hanging with his family every chance we got.
At 12.5 she can ask the courts to not make her visit during special times or at all in some states.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Mar 31, 2017 21:36:19 GMT
I have told my minor children (one this same exact age) that at any time, for any reason, myself or their father can ask for access to any and all social media activity. I have on occasion glanced at who they are messaging but that's about it so far. If they attempt to hide things, or lie they will lose their devices. To me 12 year olds don't really have much right to privacy as far as social media and online activity goes. Do I think his reason for asking is awful? Yes. But as a father I think he has the right to ask without even having to give a reason other then internet/social media safety and good parenting. I do hope they can get it worked out with the national dance thing. One thing I was so impressed with my sister and her ex was their willingness to swap out weekends etc to accommodate a concert or hunting season etc. They always put their son before their dislike of each other. I agree on the social media part. I think that a minor really doesn't have much privacy. It's the cellphone bill that gets me. It's not the daughter's bill, it's my friends bill. He doesn't have a right to see everyone that SHE is calling. So is he looking for evidence that the daughter has not communicated with his family or that the mother has? It seems like a strange non-connected request. But I know from experience that when it comes to time with children it is a difficult thing to negotiate. I would probably give in to his request as stated before with only the exact information requested.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:22:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 21:44:13 GMT
Manipulation at its finest. Ugh.
I think any good lawyer and a level headed judge would have a field day with "Dad" - disparaging the other parent, lack of self control, and not putting his child's best interest's first is not a good way to present yourself in family court.
Go get 'um!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:22:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 22:07:26 GMT
I have absolutely nothing to do with my moms side of the family. They are bat shit IMO but I know my kids aren't in danger if they see their grandparent/aunt/cousins. So my ex knows if the kids want to see them it's on his time, not mine, and I'm not to be discussed. He respects that. This guy, I would think he needs something legal against his family to stop his ex from communicating with them. It's a free country she can talk to them if she wants and probably already does and makes their daughter lie.I see a trip to court in her future because I don't think what he's trying to pull is legal. Actually, no, she does not lie about it. Mom/Friend has chatted with his sister, but has not allowed daughter to communicate with them. She is not a liar, and she definitely would not lie to me about it. I wasn't trying to call your friend or her daughter a liar. I just meant that legally speaking she could still associate with her ex family and not tell him about it. She has no obligation to disclose her doings.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Apr 1, 2017 1:41:35 GMT
My ex and I have no love at all for each other personally, but we manage to put that aside to be flexible for our youngest son. We work around his soccer, camps, and plans with friends even if it inconveniences us.
If your friend's ex is not doing that, she needs to take it to court. That's unfortunate, but better to handle it that way than have her daughter be the victim of dad's pettiness.
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Post by mcscrapper on Apr 1, 2017 4:30:41 GMT
Your friend needs to contact her lawyer. Custody agreements tend to change as kids get older and become involved with school and activities. This. Surely he will see that he is really only hurting his own child to get back at her mother. Probably wishful thinking but people can be so selfish when it comes to this type of stuff. I'd get whatever arrangement is agreed upon is in writing. If they can work it out amicably, that's fine but I'd probably get the lawyers involved just to make some adjustments to visitation that specifically address the extra curricular activities. I think our friends had to do this for soccer tourneys out of town. It was easier for the mom to take the child to games because of her work schedule so if a tourney came up on his weekend, he basically had to pay for the hotel room the team stayed in if the mom took the child. It worked out pretty well from they both said. They were also reasonable people and knew it was what was best for the child if the dad couldn't go to tournaments. I also agree that he is being manipulative at the child's expense and if I were the mom, I would save each and every text message and record every phone conversation in case he did try to hold something like a dam cell phone bill over my head to keep my child from going to an activity like that. Pretty sure the courts would frown upon that, too. SaveSave
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Post by mom on Apr 1, 2017 4:39:49 GMT
There is no way in hell I would give my cell phone bill to my xDH. I probably would let him see the social media, as it does pertain to his child. But my cell phone bill? NOPE. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,156
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Apr 1, 2017 10:48:29 GMT
Dance is an extracurricular, so I wouldn't think this has anything to do with custody, or with mom needing to use all of her days at once. Isn't it the responsibility of both parents to get the child to whatever extracurriculars are scheduled? So, if dad doesn't want mom to go, he can take her. (yes, I am totally oversimplifying this, but it is another way of looking at it) Should be simple...kid wants to do dance so you make arrangements so that kid can participate in activities without drama. It seems that mother is trying to pool her days together and trade with Dad so that kid can participate which means Mom is giving up her time (if i'm interpreting right.) So she gives up days, he just gets different days....yet Dad is trying to "get" something out of the deal that he wants. So yes, should be a simple matter of we do what is best for our kid and get them to the activities they want to participate in, but both parents need to act like adults for this to happen  I feel bad for the poor kid, a lot of drama when you don't behave like an adult.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 1, 2017 11:15:34 GMT
Well there's no such thing as an instagram or Snapchat bill. And there's no way I'd be turning over password Info. What a jerk.Freakin control freak
That dad is going to loose big time wether or not he wins this event in court. He is showing his daughter how little he actually cares for her as a person by treating her as an object to use against what he thinks is his ex's interests. The daughter will learn to avoid him if he keeps up similar behavior. He will loose her.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 1, 2017 11:47:51 GMT
Sad that the child is being jerked around by parents. I am sure a trip to court is in the future. In this case Parent. If freebirds account is accurate ( I think it is ) then what is the mother doing that is jerking her kid around?
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Post by miominmio on Apr 1, 2017 11:57:41 GMT
Well there's no such thing as an instagram or Snapchat bill. And there's no way I'd be turning over password Info. What a jerk.Freakin control freak That dad is going to loose big time wether or not he wins this event in court. He is showing his daughter how little he actually cares for her as a person by treating her as an object to use against what he thinks is his ex's interests. The daughter will learn to avoid him if he keeps up similar behavior. He will loose her. Sadly, he might not even care if he looses his daughter or not. I have seen too many cases where parents only see their kids as an object to hurt the other adult.
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Post by mikklynn on Apr 1, 2017 12:34:49 GMT
This is a dad who will soon have no relationship with his daughter. She's going to cut him off if he keeps behaving this way.
I am so proud of my DS and his ex-wife. They compromise every way possible for their two children.
I have no advice for your friend, other than maybe try to talk to her ex again.
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