eastcoastpea
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,252
Jun 27, 2014 13:05:28 GMT
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Post by eastcoastpea on Apr 27, 2017 13:41:23 GMT
Wow. There are some seriously scary stories on this thread.
I'm glad your story didn't have a different outcome, rodeomom.
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Post by miominmio on Apr 27, 2017 14:28:40 GMT
Scary! We have wolves around here, and the thought of meeting one of them while excersising one of the ponies gives me nightmares.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 27, 2017 18:05:34 GMT
Wow! Blimey reilly! That's scary! Thank heavens you weren't attacked. I would suggest you were getting too close to cubs or a previous kill too. As a matter of interest, how long have you had that wording under your avatar rodeomom ? I don't ever remember having a different one. The one I had at the Old 2peas was longer and wouldn't fit. It was "Just on the border of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. Why? ETA: Oh are you talking about the running one? That was posted just after Shane shoots Otis in the leg on "The Walking Dead"
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Post by destined2bmom on Apr 27, 2017 18:14:15 GMT
Wow, I am glad that you are safe! Lexica, that is a frightening story!
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 27, 2017 18:15:16 GMT
Wow, that was a closer call that I think you are realizing. There is a somewhat wooded area near me that my ex fiancé and I used to hike all the time. We usually hiked the longest trail on a weekend day, but since we were going out of town, we decided to just do part of the trail after work one night. We got to the top of this very long and steep hill, smack the post at the top ( just a silly tradition signifying that we made it) and turned around to head back down. We were not even a minute away from the top when we came upon this wet spot in the middle of the trail that was so recent it was still being absorbed into the dirt. There was a giant cat paw print in it. Mountain Lion pee. OMG. We both almost passed out from fear. We started making more noise and we took our jackets off and slid it them over our hiking poles. We held the poles straight up in the air to make us appear much bigger. That is what the sign warning about mountain lions at the entrance of the trails says to do. Hold something, anything, up high and yell at the cat and hopefully you will intimidate it. If you can see it, throw rocks at it. We hightailed it out of the hiking area and got back to our car just as the sun went down. I can only assume the cat wasn't hungry. We don't think it followed us back down the hill. Fast forward about a month or so and there was a young man who was riding his mountain bike through the area where we were. From what they can determine, his bike chain broke and he was most likely crouching down and fixing it. A mountain lion came up behind him and attacked him. This was in the middle of the day. His body was discovered hidden in the brush not too far from the top of the hill where we smacked the post. He had been riding by himself in total daylight and the cat jumped him, dragged him down the hill a ways and killed him and was eating him. Just then, two girls were riding their mountain bikes on the same trails and a mountain lion, protective of its kill, jumped one of the girls as she rode by. It was trying to drag her down the hill. It had her by the head ad was trying to drag her down the hill into the brush where the other man lay dead and not yet discovered. Fortunately she was wearing a helmet so when the lion bit her head, she had some protection. Her friend jumped off her bike and grabbed her friend's leg and was doing her best to keep the cat from dragging her into the bushes. A couple of guys came along and they began throwing big rocks at the cat and yelling and making all kinds of noise. The cat finally let go of the girl and ran off. The girl survived, but was severely injured. I don't know the full extent of her injuries, but her face was quite badly mauled and she is lucky to be alive. The man's body was discovered as Deputies were searching the area for the cat. This hiking area is a small canyon with hills and trees, and all along the top of the canyon for a good ways in are neighborhoods with nice big homes. It wasn't like this was an hour off into the wilderness, this was really just a little bit into the canyon. The area was closed for quite a while while the authorities made sure there were no other cats making their way that close to the populated canyon from the surrounding Santa Ana mountain range. You are very lucky to have made it out safely and to be telling this story tonight! ETA, I also just remembered that a little girl that went to school with my son was mauled by a mountain lion in another area near here. She was at a camp site with her family and they were out walking. The little girl was a few feet ahead of her mom when the cat jumped out, grabbed her by the head, and bounded off with the little girl in its mouth. She survived as well, but has some major issues from her attack. You are really one very lucky lady. I actually remember this and saw a show about it. And it did come to mind when I was walking back. I know that they jump you from behind. I will remember the putting my jacket on my walking stick if I ever happens again!
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Apr 27, 2017 18:19:24 GMT
Gah!! How scary! Glad you're okay.
A friend of mine was walking her tiny dog and noticed a coyote stalking them. I can't imagine the fear. I'm too unfit to outrun a wild animal!
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 27, 2017 18:24:45 GMT
Gah!! How scary! Glad you're okay. A friend of mine was walking her tiny dog and noticed a coyote stalking them. I can't imagine the fear. I'm too unfit to outrun a wild animal! Believe me I couldn't out run a cow.
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Apr 27, 2017 18:26:31 GMT
Gah!! How scary! Glad you're okay. A friend of mine was walking her tiny dog and noticed a coyote stalking them. I can't imagine the fear. I'm too unfit to outrun a wild animal! Believe me I couldn't out run a cow. The coyote or wildcat that gets this fat little piggy (me) is gonna be so happy, though. Food for months! 😂
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 4:28:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 18:35:58 GMT
wow...glad you are okay
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Post by bc2ca on Apr 27, 2017 18:36:37 GMT
Gah!! How scary! Glad you're okay. A friend of mine was walking her tiny dog and noticed a coyote stalking them. I can't imagine the fear. I'm too unfit to outrun a wild animal! Our neighbor was walking her large, elderly dog through the canyon behind us and a coyote stalked her all the way home and when she went in her house, turned his attention to DS(8) standing at the bus stop. So glad your instict was to stay calm rodeomom and you had a ride show up quickly. I would have dissolved into a trembling puddle as soon as I closed the car door. SaveSave
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,517
Jun 29, 2014 14:40:44 GMT
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Post by casii on Apr 27, 2017 19:15:57 GMT
No way, nuh uh, I hike the AT frequently and I'm am good & freaked out now.
Glad you were safe!
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,282
Jul 22, 2014 2:10:14 GMT
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Post by marimoose on Apr 27, 2017 19:53:39 GMT
Glad you are ok. Something similiar happened to my Dad's wife a few years ago. They lived in the mountains of Colorado and his wife liked to take walks - alone. One day a mountain lion was in the area and stalking her too. I think my Dad saw something from the window or heard something but I know she didn't have a phone to call, anyways he jumped in the truck and went looking for her. Thankfully she always took the same path. He was able to pick her up before the mountain liion needed to decide what it wanted to do. You just never know.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 27, 2017 20:24:37 GMT
I know! But I think if it was try to hunt me if wouldn't have growled. Right? Yes, it was more likely a warning. I'm not a mountain lion expert but I do know that they like to silently lurk and then jump on your back, biting into the neck. Maybe it was a mom with cubs, who thought you looked like more than she cared to tackle today? In any case, that's terrifying. I'm glad you're ok! I once saw a suggestion to wear a hat with eyes on the back of it if you're hiking in mtn lion territory. They don't like to attack head-on. I thought I had read somewhere that running triggers a prey instinct in them. I have often read about runners or bikers getting attacked. I would use this as an excuse to not go running, lol. OP, scary - glad you are okay. Read up on mountain lion attacks just in case. I think they are scarier than other wildlife because they will attack offensively (compared to bear attacks which are largely defensive and often avoidable), but it is possible to fight them off. I remember reading if you have on a coat spread out your arms to appear bigger than you are and try to look intimidating. Easy, right?
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 27, 2017 20:27:15 GMT
No way, nuh uh, I hike the AT frequently and I'm am good & freaked out now. Glad you were safe! There are always tons of rumors about where mountain lions are and conspiracy theories on how the government is involved, but they are not common at all on the East Coast. At least in the northeast the ticks are more dangerous.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 27, 2017 21:17:45 GMT
Yes, it was more likely a warning. I'm not a mountain lion expert but I do know that they like to silently lurk and then jump on your back, biting into the neck. Maybe it was a mom with cubs, who thought you looked like more than she cared to tackle today? In any case, that's terrifying. I'm glad you're ok! I once saw a suggestion to wear a hat with eyes on the back of it if you're hiking in mtn lion territory. They don't like to attack head-on. I thought I had read somewhere that running triggers a prey instinct in them. I have often read about runners or bikers getting attacked. I would use this as an excuse to not go running, lol. OP, scary - glad you are okay. Read up on mountain lion attacks just in case. I think they are scarier than other wildlife because they will attack offensively (compared to bear attacks which are largely defensive and often avoidable), but it is possible to fight them off. I remember reading if you have on a coat spread out your arms to appear bigger than you are and try to look intimidating. Easy, right? Pudgy, I wanted to tell you that I'm up to 4 miles now! Will be going on our first "Official" walk on the 20th. It's a commemorative Trail of Tears Walk to honor DH's gg-grandfather. It's only 3 miles (A lot of older people walk) So I think I will be able to handle it ok. I'm excited. I'm looking to get me a good pair of hiking boots any recommendations? I really think I need the ankle support or I would get lightweight hiking shoes. Here's a picture from last year
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 29, 2024 4:28:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 22:10:53 GMT
Oh, how scary! Best you weren't scared as wild animals can smell fear and that will rile them up. And best you did not run, or it would likely have seen you as prey for sure. Thank God you were not attacked!
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Post by Zee on Apr 27, 2017 22:36:51 GMT
No way, nuh uh, I hike the AT frequently and I'm am good & freaked out now. Glad you were safe! You're pretty safe unless you meet a straggler out of FL up into GA. Not likely though. I'm more scared of running into a mother bear with cubs to protect!
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,764
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Apr 27, 2017 22:56:55 GMT
Yikes! Glad you made it away safely.
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Post by gillyp on Apr 27, 2017 23:14:08 GMT
Wow! Blimey reilly! That's scary! Thank heavens you weren't attacked. I would suggest you were getting too close to cubs or a previous kill too. As a matter of interest, how long have you had that wording under your avatar rodeomom ? I don't ever remember having a different one. The one I had at the Old 2peas was longer and wouldn't fit. It was "Just on the border of the Choctaw and Chickasaw Nations. Why? ETA: Oh are you talking about the running one? That was posted just after Shane shoots Otis in the leg on "The Walking Dead" Yes, it was the running one I was referring to. It seemed rather appropriate, given your post!
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Post by lucyg on Apr 27, 2017 23:48:57 GMT
WOW!! Sure glad you're still here to report on this incident. ETA I remember the incident with the bikers a few years back, Lexica. Super scary. Stay safe. We have coyotes here and they get the neighborhood cats sometimes. We worry about the dachshund, too. One of them took a chunk out of my BIL's big dog once, but we think she strayed too close to a nest (den? whatever) with puppies in it. BIL wants to camp overnight out there with the 8yo, but I'm afraid the coyotes would find him too tempting.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Apr 28, 2017 0:19:25 GMT
Well, you've made me feel much better about the rats in my alley.
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tanya2
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1604
Posts: 4,427
Jun 27, 2014 2:27:09 GMT
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Post by tanya2 on Apr 28, 2017 0:40:57 GMT
omg that is terrifying! and that story of yours lexica is even more so
I'm glad you're ok!
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Apr 28, 2017 1:14:13 GMT
Wow, that was a closer call that I think you are realizing. There is a somewhat wooded area near me that my ex fiancé and I used to hike all the time. We usually hiked the longest trail on a weekend day, but since we were going out of town, we decided to just do part of the trail after work one night. We got to the top of this very long and steep hill, smack the post at the top ( just a silly tradition signifying that we made it) and turned around to head back down. We were not even a minute away from the top when we came upon this wet spot in the middle of the trail that was so recent it was still being absorbed into the dirt. There was a giant cat paw print in it. Mountain Lion pee. OMG. We both almost passed out from fear. We started making more noise and we took our jackets off and slid it them over our hiking poles. We held the poles straight up in the air to make us appear much bigger. That is what the sign warning about mountain lions at the entrance of the trails says to do. Hold something, anything, up high and yell at the cat and hopefully you will intimidate it. If you can see it, throw rocks at it. We hightailed it out of the hiking area and got back to our car just as the sun went down. I can only assume the cat wasn't hungry. We don't think it followed us back down the hill. Fast forward about a month or so and there was a young man who was riding his mountain bike through the area where we were. From what they can determine, his bike chain broke and he was most likely crouching down and fixing it. A mountain lion came up behind him and attacked him. This was in the middle of the day. His body was discovered hidden in the brush not too far from the top of the hill where we smacked the post. He had been riding by himself in total daylight and the cat jumped him, dragged him down the hill a ways and killed him and was eating him. Just then, two girls were riding their mountain bikes on the same trails and a mountain lion, protective of its kill, jumped one of the girls as she rode by. It was trying to drag her down the hill. It had her by the head ad was trying to drag her down the hill into the brush where the other man lay dead and not yet discovered. Fortunately she was wearing a helmet so when the lion bit her head, she had some protection. Her friend jumped off her bike and grabbed her friend's leg and was doing her best to keep the cat from dragging her into the bushes. A couple of guys came along and they began throwing big rocks at the cat and yelling and making all kinds of noise. The cat finally let go of the girl and ran off. The girl survived, but was severely injured. I don't know the full extent of her injuries, but her face was quite badly mauled and she is lucky to be alive. The man's body was discovered as Deputies were searching the area for the cat. This hiking area is a small canyon with hills and trees, and all along the top of the canyon for a good ways in are neighborhoods with nice big homes. It wasn't like this was an hour off into the wilderness, this was really just a little bit into the canyon. The area was closed for quite a while while the authorities made sure there were no other cats making their way that close to the populated canyon from the surrounding Santa Ana mountain range. You are very lucky to have made it out safely and to be telling this story tonight! ETA, I also just remembered that a little girl that went to school with my son was mauled by a mountain lion in another area near here. She was at a camp site with her family and they were out walking. The little girl was a few feet ahead of her mom when the cat jumped out, grabbed her by the head, and bounded off with the little girl in its mouth. She survived as well, but has some major issues from her attack. You are really one very lucky lady. call me crazy if you wish but if there is a sign warning about mountain lions, the correct response is to just not go on that trail. Glad you're ok, rodeomom - hate to say it, but as much as you enjoy your walks, I think it's time to stop. Not safe. The best protection against being attacked by a mountain lion is to simply not be where they are, period. Full stop.
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pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
Jun 25, 2014 20:18:39 GMT
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Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 28, 2017 2:20:55 GMT
I thought I had read somewhere that running triggers a prey instinct in them. I have often read about runners or bikers getting attacked. I would use this as an excuse to not go running, lol. OP, scary - glad you are okay. Read up on mountain lion attacks just in case. I think they are scarier than other wildlife because they will attack offensively (compared to bear attacks which are largely defensive and often avoidable), but it is possible to fight them off. I remember reading if you have on a coat spread out your arms to appear bigger than you are and try to look intimidating. Easy, right? Pudgy, I wanted to tell you that I'm up to 4 miles now! Will be going on our first "Official" walk on the 20th. It's a commemorative Trail of Tears Walk to honor DH's gg-grandfather. It's only 3 miles (A lot of older people walk) So I think I will be able to handle it ok. I'm excited. I'm looking to get me a good pair of hiking boots any recommendations? I really think I need the ankle support or I would get lightweight hiking shoes. Here's a picture from last year Awesome! The walk sounds like a great way to honor this who walked or perished. I am sure you will do fine! It has been so long since I have worn boots, I don't have any advice. If you go to a store and get them on, you will get an idea of what brands fit your feet. Good luck on your new endeavor!
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Post by Lexica on Apr 28, 2017 16:11:38 GMT
cycworker, I don't think that makes you crazy, but ever since the little girl was mauled by the mountain lion while out walking with her parents, every trail area had signs about mountain lion danger installed. The family successfully sued after their child was attacked because there had been multiple reports from various rangers that there was a big cat hanging in the area and that campers should be warned. Nothing was done, and this family paid the price. I don't remember how much they won in their suit, but it did result in warnings being placed in every possible location. I know logically that one should not walk onto a mountain lion's dinner plate, but when I began hiking out there, it was filled with mountain bikers, families, multiple other hikers, and it just looks so peaceful and appealing. I had hiked that same area for around 4 years, almost every weekend and multiple times after work, although we had always done the weekday hikes when it remained light out until around 8 pm. The one time we went after work and it was almost dark when we got back to the car was because we were heading to Yosemite to do some snowshoeing and wanted to get in as much exercise as possible beforehand. In all of the many hikes we had taken, and most involved going deep into the more remote areas to push ourselves and add hours to the trail, we had never seen a mountain lion or coyote, or even footprints or scat from them. It tends to lull you into a perhaps false sense of security. And truth be told, I haven't gone for a big hike in there since the fire of '07, but that is more because of the onset of my illness than fear of the cats. I miss it a lot. Especially seeing the wildlife (nonthreatening variety!) like cottontails, woodpeckers, and families of deer. I will have to be content on the Google Trail Map that was started last year.
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Post by Lexica on Apr 28, 2017 16:16:38 GMT
rodeomom, if you have a store like REI in your area, they will help you choose a set of hiking boots that will be best suited for you and the type of trail hiking you will be doing. We have an REI near me and their employees are awesome, experienced outdoors people, and worked with me on choosing my boots for both hiking in summer and another pair I bought for really cold weather when we would go snowshoeing in Yosemite. There are so many brands and styles that you really have to talk to someone and be fitted for the right type of shoe for you and your specific gait. Have fun in your future hiking endeavors!
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 28, 2017 16:40:45 GMT
rodeomom , if you have a store like REI in your area, they will help you choose a set of hiking boots that will be best suited for you and the type of trail hiking you will be doing. We have an REI near me and their employees are awesome, experienced outdoors people, and worked with me on choosing my boots for both hiking in summer and another pair I bought for really cold weather when we would go snowshoeing in Yosemite. There are so many brands and styles that you really have to talk to someone and be fitted for the right type of shoe for you and your specific gait. Have fun in your future hiking endeavors! Lexica, the closest to me is about two hours away in Texas. We don't have one in this state. But I'm willing to drive to get a good fit. Found this at yard sale today for 2$
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Post by Lexica on Apr 28, 2017 17:10:30 GMT
rodeomom , that looks like a frame setup for a long multiple day hike. I think the most important thing to have is a water reservoir with a tube and bite so that you stay well hydrated on your walks. I hated carrying anything in my hands, so I could never carry bottles of water with me. I used the same bladder and tube for cycling too. This is the type of thing I'm talking about: Water Reservoirs
The reservoir fits into your backpack (or some hiking backpacks come with one inside already) and you affix the tube to your shoulder, leaving enough of the tube free to allow the bite valve to be in easy reach to stick in your mouth. I would recommend one that has a big fill opening so that you can add a bit of ice if you are hiking in hotter weather. I like my water cold. It was also nice to position it in my pack right next to my back to help keep me a bit cooler on the hike. Be sure to get a cleaning kit and drying hanger with it if you purchase one and empty and clean it after each hike. You don't want to get it out to find stinky moldy water in the tube. They sell a specific cleaner that works great, but in a pinch, I found a bit of vinegar did the job as well. This may be information you already know, but just in case you don't, I thought I would toss it out there. I also carried some first aid stuff, a snake bite kit, and depending on where and how far we were hiking, I added clothes for weather changes and food if we were going to be out all day. ETA: I think driving two hours is a worthwhile investment to get the right type of boots for you. Ankle support is critical when you are walking around on rocks and uneven ground. These boots can be expensive, but honestly, a good pair should last you for years and years. I know they say to replace hiking boots regularly, but mine were so well made that they are still perfectly usable and comfortable all these years later, and they are the first good pair I ever bought. And be sure to wear them around the house and for any short walks to break them in before any big walks. I have really tender heels, so I put a protective plaster over them while they are still fine because I find blisters to be just about right up there with giving birth as far as pain. Good socks, good boots, and protective plasters are my must haves.
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Post by peano on Apr 28, 2017 17:10:52 GMT
I thought I had read somewhere that running triggers a prey instinct in them. I have often read about runners or bikers getting attacked. I would use this as an excuse to not go running, lol. OP, scary - glad you are okay. Read up on mountain lion attacks just in case. I think they are scarier than other wildlife because they will attack offensively (compared to bear attacks which are largely defensive and often avoidable), but it is possible to fight them off. I remember reading if you have on a coat spread out your arms to appear bigger than you are and try to look intimidating. Easy, right? Pudgy, I wanted to tell you that I'm up to 4 miles now! Will be going on our first "Official" walk on the 20th. It's a commemorative Trail of Tears Walk to honor DH's gg-grandfather. It's only 3 miles (A lot of older people walk) So I think I will be able to handle it ok. I'm excited. I'm looking to get me a good pair of hiking boots any recommendations? I really think I need the ankle support or I would get lightweight hiking shoes. Here's a picture from last yearRodeomom, that sounds terrifying. Around here we have to watch out for black bears in our town and surrounding areas. A walking friend saw one about 20 feet away in the wooded area that abuts the open space trails we walk on. I got a new pair of Lowa hiking boots from REI over the winter. It doesn't look like they have my model any more. Mine have Gore-Tex and were comfortable right out of the box with good ankle support, which is why I wear them.
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rodeomom
Pearl Clutcher
Refupee # 380 "I don't have to run fast, I just have to run faster than you."
Posts: 3,670
Location: Chickasaw Nation, Oklahoma
Jun 25, 2014 23:34:38 GMT
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Post by rodeomom on Apr 28, 2017 17:16:26 GMT
rodeomom, that looks like a frame setup for a long multiple day hike. I think the most important thing to have is a water reservoir with a tube and bite so that you stay well hydrated on your walks. I hated carrying anything in my hands, so I could never carry bottles of water with me. I used the same bladder and tube for cycling too. This is the type of thing I'm talking about: Water Reservoirs
The reservoir fits into your backpack (or some hiking backpacks come with one inside already) and you affix the tube to your shoulder, leaving enough of the tube free to allow the bite valve to be in easy reach to stick in your mouth. I would recommend one that has a big fill opening so that you can add a bit of ice if you are hiking in hotter weather. I like my water cold. It was also nice to position it in my pack right next to my back to help keep me a bit cooler on the hike. Be sure to get a cleaning kit and drying hanger with it if you purchase one and empty and clean it after each hike. You don't want to get it out to find stinky moldy water in the tube. They sell a specific cleaner that works great, but in a pinch, I found a bit of vinegar did the job as well. This may be information you already know, but just in case you don't, I thought I would toss it out there. I also carried some first aid stuff, a snake bite kit, and depending on where and how far we were hiking, I added clothes for weather changes and food if we were going to be out all day. I'm just starting out, so love the tips!
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