wellway
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 9,203
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on May 26, 2017 14:11:05 GMT
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Post by missbennet on May 26, 2017 14:14:04 GMT
I laughed so hard at this yesterday, but then someone pointed out the handwriting changes in the middle. I don't buy this story, but I do love the idea of it.
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Post by lesley on May 26, 2017 14:14:16 GMT
I see a bright future for that girl working alongside Amal Clooney! 
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on May 26, 2017 14:19:51 GMT
I hated class punishments too. It's like the teacher wants the other kids to be upset at the culprit and police him themselves.
My handwriting changes like that a bit, plus I think she broke her pencil or sharpened it for the rest of the note past 1949.
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Post by missbennet on May 26, 2017 14:36:40 GMT
I hated class punishments too. It's like the teacher wants the other kids to be upset at the culprit and police him themselves. My handwriting changes like that a bit, plus I think she broke her pencil or sharpened it for the rest of the note past 1949. I think you are probably right, and I am a cynical buzzkill.  I repent of my skepticism.
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Post by katieanna on May 26, 2017 15:16:43 GMT
My DH told me this often happened in the army. That way, the sergeant didn't have to do anything because the other guys would handle it for him.
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Post by tampascrapper on May 26, 2017 16:14:33 GMT
I loved her answer!! Too funny
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M in Carolina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,128
Jun 29, 2014 12:11:41 GMT
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Post by M in Carolina on May 26, 2017 16:40:32 GMT
My DH told me this often happened in the army. That way, the sergeant didn't have to do anything because the other guys would handle it for him. I've heard that too-- guys being held down in their bunks and beaten with a sock filled with bars of soap, etc. Lots of guys go into the military (and law enforcement) because they are bullies and get off on the power. My guess is that the guys that don't do well are the weaker ones. Look at Full Metal Jacket. @missbenett lots of these types of things are fake. I know my handwriting can be really good some days and bad the next.
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Post by papersilly on May 26, 2017 16:46:38 GMT
excellent!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 20:34:08 GMT
Watch the first 30 minutes of Full Metal Jacket - it will make you think twice about collective punishment.
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Post by Zee on May 26, 2017 20:37:30 GMT
I laughed so hard at this yesterday, but then someone pointed out the handwriting changes in the middle. I don't buy this story, but I do love the idea of it. The Es, Rs, and Ns are all consistent. I think it's real, and I'm usually a skeptic too.
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Post by refugeepea on May 26, 2017 20:38:49 GMT
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Post by Sam on May 26, 2017 20:52:41 GMT
I laughed so hard at this yesterday, but then someone pointed out the handwriting changes in the middle. I don't buy this story, but I do love the idea of it. The Es, Rs, and Ns are all consistent. I think it's real, and I'm usually a skeptic too. I'm sceptical enough to believe that the handwriting is hers, written as dictated by the parent!!
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Post by monklady123 on May 26, 2017 21:04:17 GMT
Whether or not it's a real note I totally agree with the sentiment! Group punishments punish the ones who did nothing and most of the time it has no effect on the ones who misbehaved. Our schools here used to use recess as punishment and I can remember dd coming home indignant in 2nd or 3rd grade because the lunch lady had kept her whole grade in from recess. The reason? ONE child wouldn't stay in his seat and eat and he kept running around the lunchroom. Yes, we all agree that running in the lunchroom is not allowed for safety reasons. No problem there. Except that the kid was autistic and his aide took lunch off. So that kid was in there with the awful LOUD NOISE (omg it's horrible in there) and no aide and of course he couldn't sit still. The kids, who had known him since kindergarten, were mad not just at being kept in from recess but also that the lunch lady "doesn't understand Billy [not real name] -- Mom! Billy can't sit still yet, he hasn't learned how!" Those kids were so mad that one of that grade's teachers suggested they write letters to the principal to explain why the punishment was unfair, which they did. So yeah, group punishments are right up there with group projects. Actually group anything. I should have been a hermit.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on May 26, 2017 22:25:29 GMT
I call it negative peer pressure in my classroom. Unfortunately, it is increasingly difficult to have any sort of class management that 1) works and 2) doesn't ruffle someone's feathers.
One of the "goals" in education is for each class to work/feel like a community. That will require working with peers when you don't want to, trying to meet a common goal and share in consequences.
I teach multiple preps of the same subject. Friends share what happens in their individual blocks. I have one class that is rowdy and tends to need more academic help. Probably 1/2 the class cannot control themselves for a whole period. The other half is great. Morning class gets to play more games, go outside for lectures and have a more relaxed atmosphere. Afternoon class is very structured. If they aren't kept moving along they'll get out of control. No down time allowed or I spend too much time reeling them back in. The "good" kids think the change in plans is collective punishment. I call it differentiation. Sometimes I'll tell the whole class at the start that I have XYZ planned for the day but we're going to use peer pressure to make sure EVERYONE stays on topic until then so we can get our work done. So they do self-monitor. Without any pillowcases full of soap and shoes.
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Post by monklady123 on May 26, 2017 22:53:47 GMT
I call it negative peer pressure in my classroom. Unfortunately, it is increasingly difficult to have any sort of class management that 1) works and 2) doesn't ruffle someone's feathers. One of the "goals" in education is for each class to work/feel like a community. That will require working with peers when you don't want to, trying to meet a common goal and share in consequences. I teach multiple preps of the same subject. Friends share what happens in their individual blocks. I have one class that is rowdy and tends to need more academic help. Probably 1/2 the class cannot control themselves for a whole period. The other half is great. Morning class gets to play more games, go outside for lectures and have a more relaxed atmosphere. Afternoon class is very structured. If they aren't kept moving along they'll get out of control. No down time allowed or I spend too much time reeling them back in. The "good" kids think the change in plans is collective punishment. I call it differentiation. Sometimes I'll tell the whole class at the start that I have XYZ planned for the day but we're going to use peer pressure to make sure EVERYONE stays on topic until then so we can get our work done. So they do self-monitor. Without any pillowcases full of soap and shoes. I think what you're describing is different from the group punishments I've seen. You are offering a reward to work toward -- your "XYZ planned for the day" -- and everyone knows that from the beginning that this is what the goal is. Peer pressure could work to be sure that everyone does what they need to do. To me this is different from suddenly saying "okay that's it, everyone misses recess today" as a punishment for some infraction that had nothing to do with half the class. I see your method used a lot in the school where I sub where a class is working toward something fun, like extra recess, or PJ day, or "bring your stuffed animal to school" day, or something. They earn this by getting points throughout the day.. most teachers, especially those with difficult classes, will divide the day into chunks, like "language arts time" and "math time" and "after lunch time" or whatever, and the kids can get a point for each of those blocks if they do what they're supposed to. I know it works because when I sub in those classes the kids are always eager to tell me about their point system and are worried that I won't do points or I won't understand how to do them. lol.
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Post by Merge on May 26, 2017 23:46:48 GMT
We have a school policy against collective punishment - a policy I wholeheartedly support. If that was my kid, she'd get a high five!
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Post by berty on May 27, 2017 2:17:48 GMT
My DH told me this often happened in the army. That way, the sergeant didn't have to do anything because the other guys would handle it for him. My Dad told me about this,too. When he was in basic training, one guy never showered and everyone got punished instead. After this happened twice, the stinky soldier got some assistance with his bathing - using a wire brush!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:44:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 7:10:09 GMT
I'm a teacher and I dislike group punishment too. It puts the power in the hands of the misbehaving kids. Their choice to misbehave dictates consequences for the rest of the class. For some kids that's a thrill.
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Post by Lindarina on May 27, 2017 9:15:30 GMT
Another teacher who dislikes group punishment. In my class it's - oh, you spent your time having recess in class while the others were working? Well I guess you have to do the work now then, while the others are playing boardgames If that doesn't work their parents might get a message telling them that their little one is bringing home extra homework and why. I have a class of pretty obediant 2nd graders this year though. My strategies change every year. But never group punishment! 
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Post by chances on May 27, 2017 18:23:31 GMT
What do you all think of group punishment as away to find the "culprit"? Property is damaged, someone stole the class gerbil, or some infraction where a good portion of the kids know who did but won't say. I always thought group punishments were used for that. The kids have control, tell or not tell, but it seems like a poor strategy.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on May 27, 2017 19:00:44 GMT
What do you all think of group punishment as away to find the "culprit"? Property is damaged, someone stole the class gerbil, or some infraction where a good portion of the kids know who did but won't say. I always thought group punishments were used for that. The kids have control, tell or not tell, but it seems like a poor strategy. If you have a good relationship with a class, and the victim isn't a total a-hole, it is pretty easy to find out who the culprit is. That being said, I have probably had some kids take the fall for their friends because I accused the wrong one. At least I've heard few kids say "it wasn't me, but I'm no snitch." That doesn't concern me that much. The behavior doesn't occur again, which is the goal of any consequence. It's not like I'm making anyone walk the plank.
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Post by maryland on May 27, 2017 19:57:15 GMT
Thanks so the teachers that don't like group punishment! 
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Post by mlynn on May 29, 2017 11:04:27 GMT
I have often thought it "interesting" that kids are counseled to not cave in to peer pressure, but then adults use group punishment to create peer pressure that they hope is effective on the kids...you know...the ones who are supposed to resist peer pressure.
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Post by worrywart on May 29, 2017 12:49:08 GMT
Based on my knowledge of 11 years olds, I find it suspicious that an she a)knows what the Geneva Convention is and b) equates it back to classroom punishment!! Not to mention uses the word collective!!
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Post by salem on May 29, 2017 14:42:29 GMT
Based on my knowledge of 11 years olds, I find it suspicious that an she a)knows what the Geneva Convention is and b) equates it back to classroom punishment!! Not to mention uses the word collective!! This was my first reaction also. I always hated those group punishments that my teachers would pull to get everyone else to give up the screw up. Teachers know who the assholes are in their classes. The ones that do stuff because they know it will mess things up for the whole class, and they think they're funny and know especially in middle school years that nobody wants to speak up for fear of social retaliation. It's a lazy way to punish, but also shows the frustration teachers feel over the lack of being able to actually have a punishment make an effect on some of these kids. The type that I remember were kids that were a big PITA every single year and the kids that followed the rules didn't want them in their classes to begin with. It's not up to the kids that behave to reign in the ones that can't/won't and they shouldn't lose privileges because of it.
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