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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 21:22:13 GMT
Is it possible to get someone so close to layoff and still maintain the part of the friendship that isn't SUCH a burden? I have A LOT of things (and at times even nothing) that I want to do on a daily basis, and I've never had to justify that or report to someone a list of things I have to do that is more important than helping this oppressed victim. I'd like to sit & have tea maybe once a week & go about my life the rest. How can this be possible? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is possible IF she will respect you. Respect is a key concept.
I *might* invite her for tea/coffee out somewhere or on the patio. Not into the house. I would tell her I am going to talk and she is going to listen to me without talking. And I would phrase it exactly like that. I would be point blank.
I would tell her America's history is the story of immigrants. The were independent people who left home to live their own lives far away from family. In early generations that even meant far away from people. My grandparents nearest neighbor was 6 miles; walking. I grew up in a family where we often do things alone. This is foundational to understanding local culture.
Then I would talk to her about:
Pretending her English is less than is. That is being disrespectful to the person she is dealing with AND disrespectful to her home culture by acting like they are stupid when they aren't. Borrowing items and not returning them right away is being disrespectful to the person that loaned them to her. Asking someone to teach her then telling the teacher "no" about ANYTHING is disrespecting the person giving time to teach her. If she knows then she doesn't need to be taught. Stop acting stupid like you need a teacher if you don't. Giving food when she has been told not to is about not respecting your food habits.
EVERY SINGLE thing she does is about disrespect. Calling you sister is disrespectful to both your families. She has moved to America. She has had time to get over the culture shock. Now, does she want to learn to fit in and have friends (that takes respecting people in the way Americans respect each other and not in her home country's old way) You will need to be point blank. But everything you've mentioned boils down to disrespect. She has NO respect for your time, the time your family gives up so you can do things with/for her.
If you want a relationship with her you will have to be willing to call her out on her disrespectful behavior when it happens or shortly thereafter. Let her know if she is not willing to respect you then you will completely withdraw from any contact at all for any reason.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 21:24:03 GMT
Is it possible to get someone so close to layoff and still maintain the part of the friendship that isn't SUCH a burden? I have A LOT of things (and at times even nothing) that I want to do on a daily basis, and I've never had to justify that or report to someone a list of things I have to do that is more important than helping this oppressed victim. I'd like to sit & have tea maybe once a week & go about my life the rest. How can this be possible? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is possible IF she will respect you. Respect is a key concept. I *might* invite her for tea/coffee out somewhere or on the patio. Not into the house. I would tell her I am going to talk and she is going to listen to me without talking. And I would phrase it exactly like that. I would be point blank. I would tell her America's history is the story of immigrants. The were independent people who left home to live their own lives far away from family. In early generations that even meant far away from people. My grandparents nearest neighbor was 6 miles; walking. I grew up in a family where we often do things alone. This is foundational to understanding local culture. Then I would talk to her about: Pretending her English is less than is. That is being disrespectful to the person she is dealing with AND disrespectful to her home culture by acting like they are stupid when they aren't. Borrowing items and not returning them right away is being disrespectful to the person that loaned them to her. Asking someone to teach her then telling the teacher "no" about ANYTHING is disrespecting the person giving time to teach her. If she knows then she doesn't need to be taught. Stop acting stupid like you need a teacher if you don't. Giving food when she has been told not to is about not respecting your food habits. EVERY SINGLE thing she does is about disrespect. Calling you sister is disrespectful to both your families. She has moved to America. She has had time to get over the culture shock. Now, does she want to learn to fit in and have friends (that takes respecting people in the way Americans respect each other and not in her home country's old way) You will need to be point blank. But everything you've mentioned boils down to disrespect. She has NO respect for your time, the time your family gives up so you can do things with/for her. If you want a relationship with her you will have to be willing to call her out on her disrespectful behavior when it happens or shortly thereafter. Let her know if she is not willing to respect you then you will completely withdraw from any contact at all for any reason. This is completely awesome...Thank you!
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 24, 2014 21:38:31 GMT
"There's a different between feeling slighted or told no, and doing something that causes deep emotional pain... Turning down food or insisting that she respect your boundaries does not fall into the 'inflicting deep pain' category...
I think you'll have to talk yourself down a bit - it feels like a huge deal, but in the big scheme of things, refusing food or having time to yourself are not unreasonable requests... Her reaction to it might be huge as well, but you need to remember that the size of her reaction doesn't change the size or reasonableness of your boundaries..."
^^^this!!!
She sounds like a huge drama-queen type person, and personally I would have very little patience with that. And as an introvert myself, what you're describing would be tough to deal with, so I can understand your issues, totally!!
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J u l e e
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Posts: 6,531
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Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Aug 24, 2014 21:40:10 GMT
I finally had to just keep saying no...just no....without a reason...and let the no hang in the air until she looked at me and said ok and walked away. This is KEY! You must learn how to do this. And it is incredibly hard. I'm working to not be a space filler when things become uncomfortable in conversations. To try to not make everyone else at ease, etc. Just say no. (NO excuses or reasons or rambling or shifting around or feeling badly.) If you can master this one thing, it will take care of a lot of the boundary issues you two have.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 21:42:24 GMT
Maybe you can think of one day/week you can help her and be busy all the rest of the times? I'd be happy to help Wednesday after work, but I'm sorry, all my time is accounted for until then. It's hard to be a prisoner in your own home, but you have to start taking some of your life back. If she thinks you are relaxing, you tell her that this is your time to de-stress. If she wishes she could do the same thing, you tell her that is why you chose the life you have. We all make choices and we have to live with them. Good luck! You know, your post (aside from being well said) just triggered something. I am kind of "set in my ways" as far as the day & time of day I like to go out and do any errands (in general for myself). I've got this weird thing where I like to do everything on the road from like 10am until 11:30am just because that is the slowest time of day on the road and I don't like to be out & about when its busy and everyone is road raging, etc. I also don't drive at night unless absolutely vital, because my eyes are sensitive to headlights and it makes me nervous (even though eye tests always perfect). SHE however, since her husband does not go to work until noon or 1pm always "has" to do things after that, and I have been doing so. But WAIT a freaking second. MY own husband is away on business for several days a week (very varied days/length) & I've been catering to her "poor me my husband works until late at night!") ? He was only home for TWO days in a row this last time and I took her manipulative butt driving anyway? MY choice is to get everything done here so we can enjoy our time together when he is home (and yet still stuff we can only get done when he is here) --- She has this undertone like I'm just some lady of leisure (and I am SOMETIMES, lol) -- but yeah, we all make our own choices! She can't comprehend this because she doesn't seem to even like her "mean" husband. Since she was so "wealthy" in her country I'd have thought it was arranged but they met on a marriage website
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 21:45:45 GMT
I finally had to just keep saying no...just no....without a reason...and let the no hang in the air until she looked at me and said ok and walked away. This is KEY! You must learn how to do this. And it is incredibly hard. I'm working to not be a space filler when things become uncomfortable in conversations. To try to not make everyone else at ease, etc. Just say no. (NO excuses or reasons or rambling or shifting around or feeling badly.) If you can master this one thing, it will take care of a lot of the boundary issues you two have. I do this BIGTIME with needing to fill the silence & making people feel comfortable has always been my biggest thing...never really occurred to me before now how that can be a bad thing
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Post by scrapsuzy on Aug 24, 2014 22:05:04 GMT
I love voltagain's post. And I think you don't really need much advice now that you have written everything out and have it in black & white in front of you. You know what you need to do, you know it is hard for you to do it. But for your sanity, you have to. And you can! I know you can! So all I'm going to say further is DO IT, and good luck.
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Post by I-95 on Aug 24, 2014 22:13:20 GMT
Brilliant advice Volt!! Respect is absolutely the key word there, because it's huge in their culture.
Petenthusiast ... do exactly as Volt advised and you'll have a healthy relationship with her, otherwise she'll just see you as mean and probably a racist. You will respect her, but she must respect you in return....and that conversation is not as hard as just saying no.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 22:28:59 GMT
THANK YOU all for your help...I knew once I had the whole rant typed out I had to do something and you steered me in the right direction. Will update Thurs or Fri, hopefully more relaxed!
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Post by Sassenach on Aug 24, 2014 22:31:15 GMT
You have to treat her like the child that she is. Be firm and consistent. Don't say no and then give in and help her. That only confuses her and encourages the behavior you are trying to stop. Use your caller ID and don't pick up the phone, when she knocks on the door don't answer it, and if she catches you outside make up an excuse and run back inside. Problem solved!
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azredhead
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Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Aug 24, 2014 22:34:47 GMT
Whatever you do DO NOT take her to Costco with you!! That would make it worse for sure. Good luck with that, but ya I would just have a talk with her and say yea I'm willing to be a neighbor but the extra stuff is out of control. I wouldn't be opening my door either. Good luck. ETA : I really agree with Volt about the cultural conversation that would be an easy way to go about it.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 22:42:27 GMT
You have to treat her like the child that she is. Be firm and consistent. Don't say no and then give in and help her. That only confuses her and encourages the behavior you are trying to stop. Use your caller ID and don't pick up the phone, when she knocks on the door don't answer it, and if she catches you outside make up an excuse and run back inside. Problem solved! I actually WISH she's CALL on the phone...she just comes on over. Usually I am in the habit of when hubby is away & I am just home cleaning or whatever, to wear things I wouldn't want people seeing me wear & looking a big wreck just because I'm home I don't care... She made such a huge deal about how "gross" the owner of their house left it & while she had a couple of points a lot of it left me thinking about how bad she'd judge my living room showing up unannounced. Funniest thing in all of this (and why I have become more of her 'go-to' person for these things) is her "friend" housekeeper who has been doing all of this extra stuff for no pay was actually trying to pawn her off on me for the driving (Neighbor's husband pawned her off on her before that), talking about her 3 jobs, etc. While I sympathized with what she was going through, I said we are ALL very busy, blah, blah... cut to this week and so far housekeeper friend's car has been "STRUCK BY LIGHTENING & all electrical systems out" (LOL!) and later "Mom is sick" (not so lol) but likely more extremes in excuses so neighbor lady must leave her alone.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 22:48:09 GMT
Whatever you do DO NOT take her to Costco with you!! That would make it worse for sure.
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Post by AngieandSnoopy on Aug 24, 2014 22:48:34 GMT
Voltagain NAILED IT! The thing is, I doubt that you can get her to back off AND still be friends. I've tried to do that several times but if you aren't at their beck and call, you are the ENEMY! The thing is, they are so subtle sometimes that you are locked in and wonder how that happened! It is a shame, you can enjoy someone's company but NOT EVERY SINGLE DAY! And they are all about you have to talk or visit EVERY day or you aren't their friend. In that case, I'm no longer their BFF and if you aren't BFF, then you are the enemy... got snubbed by one this week!
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azredhead
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Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Aug 24, 2014 22:51:35 GMT
I think the begging to come with you that would really start to bug me. I hope you can talk to her. Is she stalking you? I think her behavior is a little past needy, but I'm kinda like you in that I would just do things and not go out of my way to tell her where I'm going or what I'm doing.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 24, 2014 23:01:20 GMT
I think the begging to come with you that would really start to bug me. I hope you can talk to her. Is she stalking you? I think her behavior is a little past needy, but I'm kinda like you in that I would just do things and not go out of my way to tell her where I'm going or what I'm doing.
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 24, 2014 23:58:39 GMT
I don't think she will allow you to back off and keep the friendship. She is using you and does a good job at it. Yes, you were kind and she took advantage of it. As long as you do anything for her, she will continue to push. Everything that you said about her makes me think this. As ol' Dr. Phil says, "We teach people how to treat us." You have to retrain her and just say no. You would be up for a conversation now and then (if she will still talk to you) , but her mode operation is get what she needs from you and then "make it even" with food that you do not want. Other than feeling badly, what do you stand to lose. Many of our neighbors are quite old and simply cannot do the things they once did. My family does lawn work, snow shovels, cleans out gutters etc. for these people. They need our help and that is fine. No one is taking advantage of anyone in that situation.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 25, 2014 0:30:33 GMT
I had one of these neighbors. She complained that she had been knocking on my door and I didn't answer. She said that she knew I was "in there" and that I should have answered the door (she'd been banging on the door for what seemed like forever). I told her that I was indeed home and didn't want company. My house, my rules and if she ever stood there banging on the door again that it would be the permanent end of the friendship. I do not have to answer my door because she is knocking.
You must be VERY direct with those types of people. They don't worry about putting you out so don't you worry about offending them. What's the worst that can happen? They don't like you any more?
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 25, 2014 0:45:25 GMT
On a positive note, they have a two year lease. Perhaps 2016 will be a good year for you.
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 16:31:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 1:58:58 GMT
The more I read this the more I think of the term emotional vampires. They are the people who suck everything out of you. I dated one. It wasn't fun at all. I can be both extroverted and introverted. I am incredibly independent too. I see where you are coming from. I agree with the firm boundaries. If it takes you awhile at first and she catches you off guard don't be afraid to say you need some time to think about it and will get back to her shortly.
I agree that I can't see this being a relationship where you can just have causal tea once a week. It sounds like she sucked all of the energy out of her husband, then her housekeeper and now she is coming for you. When she drives, she is driving her car right? I would hate for her to be in an accident driving your car.
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 16:31:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 2:48:07 GMT
I agree, you will have to decide your boundaries and be firm on them, no exceptions short of an actual emergency. No means no and you have no obligation to have or give her reasons or excuses. Do you have caller ID to screen calls? She sounds like a real pain to deal with!
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Post by melanell on Aug 25, 2014 3:28:58 GMT
Oh dear Lord, just no! I'd just stop it all. Seriously.
I agree that she isn't going to keep being your "friend" if you won;t cater to her, so be ready to just cut her off cold turkey.
Practice saying "I'm sorry, but I cannot do that anymore."
If she asks why, you say "It's just not something I can do anymore."
And if she keeps going with it, say "Sorry. I have to go now." And leave.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Aug 25, 2014 4:07:29 GMT
One of my new phrases is, "That won't work for me."
No reasons needed, no apologies given. "That won't work for me."
It's an awesome phrase. Short and sweet and gives nothing specific to latch on to with an argument.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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Post by gillyp on Aug 25, 2014 16:47:06 GMT
"I'm not comfortable with that" is something I have said in the past. Worked a treat!
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Deleted
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Oct 10, 2024 16:31:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 17:08:00 GMT
I think the begging to come with you that would really start to bug me. I hope you can talk to her. Is she stalking you? I think her behavior is a little past needy, but I'm kinda like you in that I would just do things and not go out of my way to tell her where I'm going or what I'm doing. No, I wouldn't call it stalking...in fact an older crazy-ass down the road has pretty much been stalking me for the last 3 years since I stopped speaking to him & he STILL hasn't moved on but had added her to it (paces back & forth on the sidewalk in front of her house while she is mowing & stares at her when her husband is away). Unfortunately he is doing nothing illegal --- BUT when he added her I about lost it and selected our nosiest/gossipy-est female neighbor to rant to (knowing she would run & tell his family) & for a brief time now, it has stopped (though I am sure it will start up again). ANYWAY, she's NOT the stalker in the 'hood, just highly annoying lol Maybe it's time to disengage yourself from the majority of your neighbors. Like others have said, be direct and be firm. No is a complete sentence. You must be VERY direct with those types of people. They don't worry about putting you out so don't you worry about offending them. What's the worst that can happen? They don't like you any more?
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sharlag
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I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,580
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Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
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Post by sharlag on Aug 25, 2014 17:10:11 GMT
What amazes me is the strategies and energy of this type of person. They remind me of Midge, my Dachshund, who won't stop begging if there's a plate to lick.
RELENTLESSNESS is the word I was thinking of. There's the gall to intrude and assume and demand, and there's the continuous push for compliance.
It's pretty impressive to encounter such a force of continuous manipulation. If only she would use her powers for good!
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georgiapea
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Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 25, 2014 17:47:05 GMT
Call a lawn care service and tell them your neighbor is driving you nutz and ask if they can call on her or send her their information. Do the same with driving schools.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 25, 2014 18:57:19 GMT
I don't have any direct advice, but maybe I can give you some insight into the culture. I lived in South Korea for 2 years, so that's where my experience comes from. I'm not sure which country you are referring to and Asia is a big place, so my advice may not apply. And realize that all Asians are individuals and their exposure to other ideas when growing up differs from person to person. So I'm uncomfortable saying that "all Asians" act a certain way.
I found that the Koreans never wanted to say no. Ever. I can remember looking for white heels to wear to a wedding. They didn't have anything in my size, but brought out athletic shoes in my size instead. This was at the BX on base. Same thing when booking air flights. If I wanted to fly out at noon on Thursday, they would offer me 4 pm on Wednesday. They didn't say "that flight isn't available." Instead, they would offer another choice. So when you say no, it's an unknown concept, even if she has lived in the US for a few years. It just isn't done. She's looking for when you can accommodate her. This can come off as sneaky or manipulative to us Americans, and maybe it is. But it really is just how things are done for some cultures.
Status is everything to the Koreans. For the men, they would want to know what your job is and hopefully how much you were making. DH had a high falutin title when we were there because he was important to the job and he needed to convey that quickly when speaking to any of the ROK (Republic of Korea) people. If you embarrass them or humiliate them, it's considered very bad form. In his dealings with the ROK, DH always had to phrase things so that it still made the ROK guy look good. But they are very self deprecating, which may explain why she says what she says about her DH.
I found my ROK friends to be late risers and night owls. Same thing with the kids. They would roll in an hour late to preschool and kindergarten (DS was in an American school) and just smile. If an invitation said it started at 1 pm, it was rude to be there 5 minutes early so that you were in place when a wedding/meeting/event began. If you were late, even better. I was constantly scrutinizing invitations to find out the source of the invite so that I knew the protocol.
Food was definitely a big thing to them. My adjama (woman in Korean, but they were our help) would always make dinner for us on her days. And I always made sure to have leftovers from dinner for her lunch. To gift food or share food was an honor. If I didn't care for something, I would just take it with a thank you and often send it in with DH to the office. Alcohol was especially funny, as it's a common gift and DH couldn't accept a gift worth over $20. We had some of the worst tasting alcohol in our cupboard. The moms would sit out in the court yard with the kids playing on Friday afternoons in the summer and have "cocktail time". We would bring out our bottles and try to up each other for the worst tasting brew. And then order pizza from the Club because none of us would be in any shape to cook dinner!
It was really a big adjustment to live in the culture, and we lived on base, with American shopping and schools. So I do feel for your friend, trying to adjust to life here. It doesn't mean that you have to go along with whatever hair brained scheme she has come up with, but maybe it will give you a few ideas for how to cope with the whole mess.
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Post by petenthusiast on Aug 25, 2014 23:57:25 GMT
I don't have any direct advice, but maybe I can give you some insight into the culture. I lived in South Korea for 2 years, so that's where my experience comes from. I'm not sure which country you are referring to and Asia is a big place, so my advice may not apply. And realize that all Asians are individuals and their exposure to other ideas when growing up differs from person to person. So I'm uncomfortable saying that "all Asians" act a certain way. I found that the Koreans never wanted to say no. Ever. I can remember looking for white heels to wear to a wedding. They didn't have anything in my size, but brought out athletic shoes in my size instead. This was at the BX on base. Same thing when booking air flights. If I wanted to fly out at noon on Thursday, they would offer me 4 pm on Wednesday. They didn't say "that flight isn't available." Instead, they would offer another choice. So when you say no, it's an unknown concept, even if she has lived in the US for a few years. It just isn't done. She's looking for when you can accommodate her. This can come off as sneaky or manipulative to us Americans, and maybe it is. But it really is just how things are done for some cultures. Status is everything to the Koreans. Not Korean
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Post by ChicagoKTS on Aug 26, 2014 0:22:23 GMT
Time to move and don't leave a forwarding address! Seriously, you are living my nightmare. I am not an introvert but am a private person and do not like anyone invading my personal life. I hope you find some kind of resolution to this situation.
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