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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:25:47 GMT
Why are YOU communicating with the property manager, not your daughter or the boyfriend They are. I said I had talked to a property manager I know...eyeroll. People I'm not helicoptering it. We are helping them with questions, and choices. They've never had an apartment before. If they can't find an apt that doesn't take pets he will have to give the dog up to the Humane society. We can't and won't take it. |
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Post by katelynr439 on Jun 28, 2017 2:30:10 GMT
People I'm not helicoptering it. We are helping them with questions, and choices.  |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:30:32 GMT
He has a dog that is UNTRAINED and at four years old with no training is likely not trainable. An unruly service animal CAN be evicted. Are they ready to get rid of the dog when the landlord gets too many complaints about barking? Or are they ready to break the lease and move to keep an unruly dog. You are focused on one aspect of having the service dog. YOu aren't looking at the total picture here. But I know that is par for you.  par for me? ha. oook. No, we have talked to them about it. Even if they do get an apt that does take pets though, and she barks, they can still be evicted, correct? Do you really think a 4 yr old dog is not trainable? I'm seriously asking. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:32:17 GMT
If the boyfriend got the dog originally to assist with alleviating his Asperger's or ADHD, then his doctor (not the internet) would have recommended this and written a letter at that time. To ask for a letter from the doctor after the fact to get past pet restrictions at an apartment community is just wrong I actually believe he did to help with comfort. But he lived with his parents, and they had their own home, so the letters were not needed. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 2:41:58 GMT
He has a dog that is UNTRAINED and at four years old with no training is likely not trainable. An unruly service animal CAN be evicted. Are they ready to get rid of the dog when the landlord gets too many complaints about barking? Or are they ready to break the lease and move to keep an unruly dog. You are focused on one aspect of having the service dog. YOu aren't looking at the total picture here. But I know that is par for you. par for me? ha. oook. No, we have talked to them about it. Even if they do get an apt that does take pets though, and she barks, they can still be evicted, correct? Do you really think a 4 yr old dog is not trainable? I'm seriously asking. Yes, I really do think a 4 year old dog is not trainable to the degree it needs to be in order to live quietly in an apartment. It has already been "trained" by what it has been allowed to do. He won't be training a dog, he will be retraining and having to get the dog to relearn what it already "knows" (like trying to retrain your husband out of his bad habits) Yes, they can be evicted, or required to get rid of the dog if it barks as a pet. Also, not all dogs make good comfort/service dogs. Dogs are like people in that they have innate personalities that can't be over ridden. An overly friendly puppy will keep that personality and be an overly friendly grown dog. A timid pup will keep that timidity in later life. If training is started in young puppyhood that can be altered some but the dog will most likely always be overly people oriented to everyone it meets. I don't have faith that two young adults who are both working and one is mentally/emotionally impaired are capable to keeping training going in a home setting. Instead of trying to find ways to help them keep this dog I'd be working on helping them find a suitable home for it. |
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Post by Clair on Jun 28, 2017 2:45:42 GMT
Emotional support animals can usually be evicted if they infringe on the other tenants rights to enjoy their home or if they pose a threat.
Bringing an untrained barking dog into an apartment is a terrible idea. Yes, they will be able to get a pet into a no pet apartment but is it worth making all the other neighbors miserable, dealing with landlord, dealing with police and animal control. On top of that they can get evicted.
I check references when choosing my tenants. If I found out it they had an unruly comfort dog - I would not rent to them. Easy thing to do legally.
I do rent to people with service animals - I have one in one of my rentals now.
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ellen
Drama Llama
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Post by ellen on Jun 28, 2017 2:47:03 GMT
I know plenty of people who have found an apartment or house that accepts pets. They should keep looking. One of the things I like about parenting an adult child is now and then I can say, " This is something you'll have to deal with on your own." I just can't imagine helping my daughter's unstable boyfriend get his dog listed as a comfort dog so they can get an apartment easier.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:50:49 GMT
Yes, I really do think a 4 year old dog is not trainable to the degree it needs to be in order to live quietly in an apartment. It has already been "trained" by what it has been allowed to do. He won't be training a dog, he will be retraining and having to get the dog to relearn what it already "knows" (like trying to retrain your husband out of his bad habits) Yes, they can be evicted, or required to get rid of the dog if it barks as a pet. Also, not all dogs make good comfort/service dogs. Dogs are like people in that they have innate personalities that can't be over ridden. An overly friendly puppy will keep that personality and be an overly friendly grown dog. A timid pup will keep that timidity in later life. If training is started in young puppyhood that can be altered some but the dog will most likely always be overly people oriented to everyone it meets. I don't have faith that two young adults who are both working and one is mentally/emotionally impaired are capable to keeping training going in a home setting. Instead of trying to find ways to help them keep this dog I'd be working on helping them find a suitable home for it. I totally agree. We have had this conversation with them. A lot. The difficulties with the dog, and having an apt, etc, etc. Boyfriend raised the dog from puppyhood. He feels it somehow saved him, and he saved it. Has a strong bond with it. I know the part about the eviction, but I'm just saying people on here are saying to not move the dog in to an apt that is not for pets, but even WITH an apt that allows pets, they can still be evicted. Sorry I didn't explain it better. It seems like the choices are take the dog to the Humane society, or try to find a pets allowed apt, and then it would still be dicey. I still wonder with some training that she will stop the barking. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:52:56 GMT
I know plenty of people who have found an apartment or house that accepts pets. They should keep looking. One of the things I like about parenting an adult child is now and then I can say, " This is something you'll have to deal with on your own." I just can't imagine helping my daughter's unstable boyfriend get his dog listed as a comfort dog so they can get an apartment easier I just asked on here how it works. It's not doing it. I thought 2Ps would be a good resource for how to tell them to do it. It was an option. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 2:54:31 GMT
You may know plenty of people, but up here there are NOT that many. Trust me. They have looked all over. This is not just some random off the cuff thing. They have been working on it for awhile.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 28, 2017 2:56:43 GMT
I have a Seeing Eye Dog. She was bred and born to be a service dog. She was trained for two years before I trained with her for a month. We still train everyday. An ESA does not have the rights or a true service animal and frankly from what you described that animal has no business being labeled an ESA. Please do not do this. You have no idea how taking an untrained makes it so much harder for the people who really use and need a service dog. A piece of paper from the internet DOES NOT make this dog an ESA. Honestly, it sounds like the boyfriend does not the added stress of making him responsible for the level of training required to make this animal a true ESA. This is a huge mistake and frankly I am offended by people who pass their animals off as service animals. Many of my friends true service dogs have been attacked by these fakes. It really just unacceptable and legislation is being passed that makes this illegal in many states. Just don't do it. Sandy completely agree. I wish they would change the law. Unfortunately, since businesses cannot ask for a license or proof of service animal status, people just pass off any animal as a service animal. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 2:58:10 GMT
I totally agree. We have had this conversation with them. A lot. The difficulties with the dog, and having an apt, etc, etc. Boyfriend raised the dog from puppyhood. He feels it somehow saved him, and he saved it. Has a strong bond with it. I know the part about the eviction, but I'm just saying people on here are saying to not move the dog in to an apt that is not for pets, but even WITH an apt that allows pets, they can still be evicted. Sorry I didn't explain it better. It seems like the choices are take the dog to the Humane society, or try to find a pets allowed apt, and then it would still be dicey. I still wonder with some training that she will stop the barking. Barkers bark. Yes, they can end up evicted or having to get rid of the dog either way. But by claiming it as a comfort/service animal when it is not trained to be one makes it that much more difficult for people who do have properly trained animals. Why do you and your dd want to make life harder for other people with disabilities? Why have they been ignoring the dog's need for real training up to this point? Maybe he needs to continue living with his parents if his bond with this dog is so important to him and they seem to be living where the dog's behavior is acceptable. Either that, or wait to move out after the dog is trained properly so she has stopped barking. If they can't train her in their current living arrangements they can't train her in any living arrangement. Put off moving a year. See where they are with her barking and wild behavior then. Don't make life harder for other disabled people. |
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Post by Zee on Jun 28, 2017 2:58:37 GMT
A four year old dog is totally trainable, but only by someone who knows how and will reinforce the new behaviors. So essentially, the people need training first, then the dog.
There are so, so many ill behaved dogs in the world because the owners don't get it. They just want a friend and never worry about how a poorly trained dog affects others with its lunging, jumping, barking, sniffing, peeing, etc.
A "comfort animal" label just allows people to continue to get away with this stuff.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 28, 2017 2:59:29 GMT
He has a dog that is UNTRAINED and at four years old with no training is likely not trainable. An unruly service animal CAN be evicted. Are they ready to get rid of the dog when the landlord gets too many complaints about barking? Or are they ready to break the lease and move to keep an unruly dog. You are focused on one aspect of having the service dog. YOu aren't looking at the total picture here. But I know that is par for you. par for me? ha. oook. No, we have talked to them about it. Even if they do get an apt that does take pets though, and she barks, they can still be evicted, correct? Do you really think a 4 yr old dog is not trainable? I'm seriously asking. I believe you can train a 4 year old dog, but it must be consistent and rigorous. From the information you posted, I have my doubts that they would be consistent enough. |
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Post by Clair on Jun 28, 2017 3:00:02 GMT
Yes, they can still be evicted. People MIGHT be a little more understanding in a complex that allows animals.
They need to make some adult decisions here.
As a parent of two young adults - step back and let them do some research and figure this out.
If mommy needs to hold their hands through this - they are not ready to make this next step.
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Post by katelynr439 on Jun 28, 2017 3:01:09 GMT
You may know plenty of people, but up here there are NOT that many. Trust me. They have looked all over. This is not just some random off the cuff thing. They have been working on it for awhile. I'm scared to even ask, but what kind of jobs do these two young adults have? Perhaps it would be better for them to move out of the boonies and to a slightly larger city, if they could get comparable or better jobs? It would provide lots of opportunities to them in a variety of areas. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 28, 2017 3:09:06 GMT
Yes, they can still be evicted. People MIGHT be a little more understanding in a complex that allows animals. They need to make some adult decisions here. As a parent of two young adults - step back and let them do some research and figure this out. If mommy needs to hold their hands through this - they are not ready to make this next step. I have to say that my mom helped me navigate the waters of my first apartment. Since often it isn't taught in school, where are kids supposed to learn these skills? I was 19 when I go my first apartment. My roommates were coming from Boston, so I had to do it all on my own with help from my mom. I believe she even had to co-sign the lease for me. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 3:10:42 GMT
Yes, they can still be evicted. People MIGHT be a little more understanding in a complex that allows animals. They need to make some adult decisions here. As a parent of two young adults - step back and let them do some research and figure this out. If mommy needs to hold their hands through this - they are not ready to make this next step. Again, this is not an issue. |
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Post by Basket1lady on Jun 28, 2017 3:12:10 GMT
I have a Seeing Eye Dog. She was bred and born to be a service dog. She was trained for two years before I trained with her for a month. We still train everyday. An ESA does not have the rights or a true service animal and frankly from what you described that animal has no business being labeled an ESA. Please do not do this. You have no idea how taking an untrained makes it so much harder for the people who really use and need a service dog. A piece of paper from the internet DOES NOT make this dog an ESA. Honestly, it sounds like the boyfriend does not the added stress of making him responsible for the level of training required to make this animal a true ESA. This is a huge mistake and frankly I am offended by people who pass their animals off as service animals. Many of my friends true service dogs have been attacked by these fakes. It really just unacceptable and legislation is being passed that makes this illegal in many states. Just don't do it. Sandy Read this and take it to heart. Snappydog isn't saying that you are trying to pass the dog off as a service dog. She's saying that a working dog who does not fit in well in the human world isn't the best sort to shoe horn into a working dog role. And that makes people suspicious of other working dogs. In time, this has the potential to weaken the ADA designation of a true service animal. So many people want to keep their dogs with them. Of course they do. But most dogs are not rigorously trained to fit into the public world of people. Others see this and think they are a service dog (not knowing the difference) and see a poorly trained working dog who isn't fitting in well in the public world. I have a lab whom we are training to be a therapy dog, if life ever calms down enough to get her certified. In the meantime, I take her to our Lowe's, which graciously allows me to train her in their store. I can't tell you the number of people who ask about her, then tell me how to scam the system by declaring her a therapy dog, when they actually mean an ESA dog. Then they tell me this means their dog can go into stores and restaurants. It makes me nuts--they don't even know the classification of working dog that they have and then they are trying to claim ADA privileges for the dog. In time, this has the potential to weaken the ADA designation of a true service animal. If the boyfriend has a true need for an ESA, I would encourage him to go through the proper channels, especially the proper training. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 3:14:12 GMT
I'm scared to even ask, but what kind of jobs do these two young adults have? Perhaps it would be better for them to move out of the boonies and to a slightly larger city, if they could get comparable or better jobs? It would provide lots of opportunities to them in a variety of areas. College educated young adults just starting out, out of college. Just starting their careers, so have a ways to go. Cost of living here is much more manageable then a big city. DD has been living at home, paying off her college loans in record time and saving money. Smart idea of hers, but ready to move out. So are we!! ha (oh, sorry, not allowed to do that I guess). Oh, wtf. HA! |
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Post by katelynr439 on Jun 28, 2017 3:16:06 GMT
I'm scared to even ask, but what kind of jobs do these two young adults have? Perhaps it would be better for them to move out of the boonies and to a slightly larger city, if they could get comparable or better jobs? It would provide lots of opportunities to them in a variety of areas. College educated young adults just starting out, out of college. Just starting their careers, so have a ways to go. Cost of living here is much more manageable then a big city. DD has been living at home, paying off her college loans in record time and saving money. Smart idea of hers, but ready to move out. So are we!! ha (oh, sorry, not allowed to do that I guess). Oh, wtf. HA! Well that's good, that they have college degrees. College degrees - yes? Not just college educations and then dropped out? With that information, I even more whole-heartedly would encourage them to move to a larger city. |
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Post by Basket1lady on Jun 28, 2017 3:16:27 GMT
A comfort animal does not have the same protection as a service animal. BUT, he HAS to get her trained either way. Even a service dog can be thrown out for barking, jumping or otherwise being a nuisance. I totally agree with the training. They are looking in to obedience school. A comfort animal actually does have protection. Here's the info she sent me: "Service animals are categorized as animals trained to do a specific task for their owner. The most common example is a guide dog. Service animals are allowed in public accommodations because of the owner’s need for the animal at all times. An assistance animal can be a cat, dog or other type of companion animal, and does not need to be trained to perform a service. The emotional and/or physical benefits from the animal living in the home are what qualify the animal as an assistance animal. A letter from a medical doctor or therapist is all that is needed to classify the animal as an assistance animal. The fact that the term “service animal” is often used by landlords and public housing authorities to refer to both service dogs and assistance animals often creates confusion. Some examples of assistance animals: · A cat who can detect and alerts their companion of oncoming seizures .· A dog who alleviates a person’s depression or anxiety. · A cat who reduces a person’s stress-induced pain. · A bird who alerts their hard-of-hearing companion when someone has come to the door.The bolded bullets above are examples of a service animal, not an ESA. They provide a true service to their person, similar to a full time need of a crutch or a wheelchair, who needs the animal with them at all times, not just at home. Otherwise, any dog who barks when the doorbell rings would fall under the last bullet. Although I've never heard of a bird being with a person at all times. But there must be some! |
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Post by Clair on Jun 28, 2017 3:21:24 GMT
Yes, they can still be evicted. People MIGHT be a little more understanding in a complex that allows animals. They need to make some adult decisions here. As a parent of two young adults - step back and let them do some research and figure this out. If mommy needs to hold their hands through this - they are not ready to make this next step. I have to say that my mom helped me navigate the waters of my first apartment. Since often it isn't taught in school, where are kids supposed to learn these skills? I was 19 when I go my first apartment. My roommates were coming from Boston, so I had to do it all on my own with help from my mom. I believe she even had to co-sign the lease for me. In this case it sounds like mommy is doing a lot of the work. Not everything is taught in school but in today's day and age they can research and then ask questions. I'm assuming since they've been together 7 years they are a bit older than 19. If she went to college this probably isn't her first apartment. This isn't a few young girls moving in together - this is a couple in a long term relationship moving in together - much more of an adult situation. Mommy sure sounds like she's doing more than helping. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on Jun 28, 2017 3:27:16 GMT
In this case it sounds like mommy is doing a lot of the work. Not everything is taught in school but in today's day and age they can research and then ask questions. I'm assuming since they've been together 7 years they are a bit older than 19. If she went to college this probably isn't her first apartment. This isn't a few young girls moving in together - this is a couple in a long term relationship moving in together - much more of an adult situation. Mommy sure sounds like she's doing more than helping. Well, guess what? I'm not. They are doing everything. We just ask questions, and give advice. This is her 1st apt on her own. Other apts were college owned and approved. There are a lot of bad landlords in this area, and bad apartments. They ARE researching and asking questions. Hence why I asked here, being that it gives a much broader answer base. Yes, College educated. Moving to a bigger city would not help. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 3:45:13 GMT
Hugs.
This really isn't a situation that any parent wants to be in.
I hope it all works smoothly for them.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Jun 28, 2017 3:56:56 GMT
If I found out it they had an unruly comfort dog - I would not rent to them. Easy thing to do legally. I do rent to people with service animals - I have one in one of my rentals now. I don't think I'd even get that far! As soon as a parent of a potential tenant was involved, I'd call it quits. |
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FurryP
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To pea or not to pea...
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Post by FurryP on Jun 28, 2017 3:57:30 GMT
I just feel bad for the dog. It is not his fault he was adopted into a home ill-equipped to deal with him. And now he might have to go to the Humane Society because his owner wants to live with his girlfriend? Really shows how "bonded" he is to the dog that saved him. No problem, I guess. Dogs have no feelings.  |
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Post by AussieMeg on Jun 28, 2017 4:10:13 GMT
But I have to ask - what is it with you and always adding 'HA' to your posts? Do you ever take anything seriously or are bad choices just funny to you? I am seriously wondering here. It's just Cindy's writing style. No big deal, no underlying story. Much like Heartcat (bless her, where has she been?) writes huge long posts, and Ginacivey writes single sentences on new lines with no capitalization. Nothing wrong with it. |
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Jun 28, 2017 4:12:45 GMT
I just got back from Disneyland. I was sitting with my son eating ice cream when I noticed a lab under a table. He had on miniature Mickey Mouse ears hat, about the size of half an orange, little booties for hot pavement, and a vest. I said to myself, don't judge. She's just embracing her service dog.
Then I noticed her Instagraming a picture with her dog and another dog. I thought, that's odd. I thought service dogs are "always working," and I was surprised she found another service dog buddy to take a picture with in the park? Then I noticed it...another dog, and another. Three large dogs, all sporting vests, miniature Mickey and Goofy ears hats, and booties, panting in 90+ degree weather.
One vest said "Yes, I'm a service dog!" And "ask for my ID card" etc embroidered all over it. It made me really mad. The odds of all three of these early 20-somethings having a genuine service dog that they treat like accessories is slim to none.
See, the thing is, the ADA prohibits establishments from denying a person and their service animal. The only thing an establishment can ask is, "is this a service animal?" and "what service does it provide." That's it. So then you get these shmucks cheating the system so they can Instagram their dogs in Mickey ears in front of the castle. Disney and others are too afraid of lawsuits to challenge them. They may even mistake service dog for ESA, but still, it's exploitation. Don't be that guy.
All that said, I got my first apartment at 19 just fine. I mean really, how hard is it to provide a bank statement, fill out an application, and pass a credit check? I honestly think this is Life Skills 101. If they really need this much help from you, they should not be moving out yet. They're still too immature. I mean that in an honest way, not a mean way.
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Post by nlwilkins on Jun 28, 2017 6:41:04 GMT
Are there not any houses for rent or duplexes? With dog and owner needing lots of walks that would be my choice of living arrangement. Then you would not need to worry about upsetting management and just need to put down a pet deposit.
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par for me? ha. oook. No, we have talked to them about it. Even if they do get an apt that does take pets though, and she barks, they can still be evicted, correct? 
