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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 3:04:30 GMT
This is dumb just plain dumb.
From SF Gate.....
"SACRAMENTO (CBS SF/AP) — A federal judge is blocking a California law set to go into effect Saturday that would have barred gun owners from possessing high-capacity ammunition magazines.
San Diego-based U.S. District Judge Roger Benitez said in a ruling Thursday that the law banning possession of magazines containing more than 10 bullets would have made criminals of thousands of otherwise law-abiding citizens who now own the magazines.
He issued a preliminary injunction backing the legal challenge by the National Rifle Association-affiliated California Rifle & Pistol Association.
“On July 1, 2017, any previously law-abiding person in California who still possesses a firearm magazine capable of holding more than 10 rounds will begin their new life of crime,” writes Benitez in the injunction. He claims the injunction will maintain the status quo.
California Attorney General Xavier Becerra, who is defending the state law, did not immediately comment.
The judge says the law approved by voters in November takes away gun owners’ Second Amendment rights and amounts to the government taking people’s private property without compensation.
Lawmakers passed a similar law last year banning magazines."
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
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Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 30, 2017 3:11:36 GMT
Did the law have a clause in it that allowed those who do currently own those magazines to turn them in? I don't necessarily agree with the law but if the majority of the state voters agreed to it then thats their issue, not mine. Yet another reason not to live in that state. But I do wonder if they gave ample time/opportunity for those who did have them in their possession legally prior to the law, to turn them in so they weren't breaking the law.
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Kath
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Jun 26, 2014 12:15:31 GMT
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Post by Kath on Jun 30, 2017 3:23:26 GMT
Pretty soon everybody's going to be a criminal in California because of one law or another.
The people at the top who pass these laws are the biggest f'ed-up law-breaking crooks on the planet.
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Post by megop on Jun 30, 2017 3:51:27 GMT
I would want to read the language of what was passed before making a definitive judgement. I assume the intent was regarding large magazines in auto and semi-auto rifles which I would most likely support. Classifying anything over a 10-round magazine as large in and of itself, without further definition/clarification, then I can see where the judge is coming from.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jun 30, 2017 10:12:05 GMT
Did the law have a clause in it that allowed those who do currently own those magazines to turn them in? I have no problem with gun owners not being allowed to have magazines that hold more than 10 bullets. But I do think it would be fair if they had a period, of say, 3 months, to turn in any magazines that are more than that. Heck, they should offer a buy back program, like they do for guns in other parts of the country.
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Post by Merge on Jun 30, 2017 12:31:10 GMT
It's important to have as many rounds as possible when answering the NRA's call to gun down the liberal "they."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 15:07:18 GMT
Many semi-automatics guns sold on the market today have magazines that hold more than 10 rounds and won't take anything less. If I lived in California, my 9mm Glock that has a 15 round magazine (which is standard issue for this model) would basically be an illegal gun.
It's highly likely the judge is standing behind the NRA on this because he owns firearms with standard issue magazines that break that law.
FYI - Depending on the caliber and manufacturer the standard hand gun magazine capacity is anywhere between 10 and 17 rounds.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 16:55:02 GMT
1. Gun owners had from Election Day to July 1 to change guns so they would comply with the law. This should be no biggie because this country makes it easy to buy and sell guns.
2. Limiting the number of bullets in a magazine clip does not take away anyone's 2nd amendments rights. Denying them bullets would.
3. One has to question the reason why a law abiding gun owner would need an ammunition magazine that would hold more than 10 bullets. I mean if one can't bring down whatever they are shooting at with 10 bullets then maybe they shouldn't own guns.
4. What this law attempts to do lis limit these large capacity magazines in this state so maybe they will keep them out of the hands of idiots who want to hurt as many people as they can. A noble cause IMO.
5. Now the responsible law abiding gun owners like to stand on the 2nd amendment and chant laws like this are punishing us. Problem with that is some of those responsible law abiding gun owners have a real problem holding on to those guns. Last time I checked over 250,000 guns were reported stolen and officials admitted they had no idea how many guns were stolen that haven't been reported. I have never understood how people can be so careless with a device that was invented to kill. But it happens and innocent people die.
Like: * Kate Steinle the Kate behind "Kate's Law". A lot has been made about the fact the man that killed her was an undocumented guy who had been deported several times and kept coming back. Little has been said where the gun came from. It was stolen from a BLM agents parked car in a tourist area of a tourist town.
* Then there was the gun stolen from a car parked on the street that was used to kill a young woman at a music event in Golden Gate Park and driven over to Marin County and used to kill a man walking his dog.
* More recent was the UPS killer. He managed to get his hands on 2 stolen guns.
Here is a question for you law abiding responsible gun owners. Why in the hell can't you hold on to your damn guns?
6. Then there is the crowd ,who by all appearances , come across as a responsible law abiding gun owner and then something happens and they aren't.
In my little world I believe that people should be able to go to work, go to church and worship, go to a night club, and send their 6 year olds to school without fear some nut case with an imagined grudge will shoot them.
So I support any law like this one that will limit the hardware available to these nut cases that will allow them to be more efficient in their endeavor to kill innocent folks.
And if one was truly a responsible law abiding gun owner they would also support laws like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 17:09:39 GMT
That answers your question.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 30, 2017 21:09:10 GMT
1. Gun owners had from Election Day to July 1 to change guns so they would comply with the law. This should be no biggie because this country makes it easy to buy and sell guns. 2. Limiting the number of bullets in a magazine clip does not take away anyone's 2nd amendments rights. Denying them bullets would. 3. One has to question the reason why a law abiding gun owner would need an ammunition magazine that would hold more than 10 bullets. I mean if one can't bring down whatever they are shooting at with 10 bullets then maybe they shouldn't own guns. 4. What this law attempts to do lis limit these large capacity magazines in this state so maybe they will keep them out of the hands of idiots who want to hurt as many people as they can. A noble cause IMO. 5. Now the responsible law abiding gun owners like to stand on the 2nd amendment and chant laws like this are punishing us. Problem with that is some of those responsible law abiding gun owners have a real problem holding on to those guns. Last time I checked over 250,000 guns were reported stolen and officials admitted they had no idea how many guns were stolen that haven't been reported. I have never understood how people can be so careless with a device that was invented to kill. But it happens and innocent people die. Like: * Kate Steinle the Kate behind "Kate's Law". A lot has been made about the fact the man that killed her was an undocumented guy who had been deported several times and kept coming back. Little has been said where the gun came from. It was stolen from a BLM agents parked car in a tourist area of a tourist town. * Then there was the gun stolen from a car parked on the street that was used to kill a young woman at a music event in Golden Gate Park and driven over to Marin County and used to kill a man walking his dog. * More recent was the UPS killer. He managed to get his hands on 2 stolen guns. Here is a question for you law abiding responsible gun owners. Why in the hell can't you hold on to your damn guns? 6. Then there is the crowd ,who by all appearances , come across as a responsible law abiding gun owner and then something happens and they aren't. In my little world I believe that people should be able to go to work, go to church and worship, go to a night club, and send their 6 year olds to school without fear some nut case with an imagined grudge will shoot them. So I support any law like this one that will limit the hardware available to these nut cases that will allow them to be more efficient in their endeavor to kill innocent folks. And if one was truly a responsible law abiding gun owner they would also support laws like this. Okay I will bite and will probably regret it: 1. As another poster pointed out, handguns especially are sold with 10+ round mags. So it would not be easy to be compliant with this as the manufacturers now have to make more to meet the new demand for the lower capacity mags. They aren't standard so they wouldn't be as readily available as the ones that come with the gun itself. 2.Didn't see anyone on this thread saying this was taking away anything, other than the amount of ammo they are used to keeping. That said, I think its a slippery slope but I won't argue the point as Im certain you won't see it my way either. 3. Im always a fan of having plan 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. I don't know what situations I will run into and I don't know if 1 bullet will stop it or not. There are many cases where Law Enforcement has had to empty their mags into someone hyped up on whatever and it still didn't take them down. Thats not saying Im going to run into them but when people use this argument, it tells me they don't know anything about using guns etc. Like someone also posted above, many guns now come STANDARD with these magazines, so while they may not consciously go out and find a 10+ round mag, it came with the gun they were purchasing and they probably didn't even give it a second thought. I wouldn't as it is standard. Now if I were to hypothetically purchase a handgun and it came with a drum type magazine, I might question that a bit. But a 10 round mag? Wouldn't even cross my mind. For someone not really familiar with guns, it sounds big and scary, however it really isn't 4. The mags are already in the hands of idiots. Going from there, Nobody registers mags. there is no way to track them or figure out who has what. Even if one comes with the weapon that is purchased, there are no serial numbers on the mags themselves. Does this law require registration? Does this law have a way to track who has turned in their mags and who hasn't? What happens if someone is caught with one? Is this law an actual law that will convince people not to use the 10 round mags, which aren't all that high capacity at all. Tell me exactly how this law is going to do anything for the population who doesn't follow the rules as it already stands? Its super easy to cross into NV and AZ and purchase mags and bring them back over the state line, so again who does this law benefit? Not the law abiding citizens that's for sure. If you want to really restrict how many bullets are in a magazine, do something more than just outlawing them. Track them, require serial numbers, figure out who has what and go confiscate them etc. But honestly this law does nothing to curb anything. 5. Where are you getting your numbers and what officials are saying these things? Guns get stolen just like any other item that people like to steal, cars etc. I actually typed up police reports where entire gun safes were stolen....That person was responsible and locked up their guns etc...they also reported it, but yet they got stolen anyway. Guns also come from other sources, not just stolen. There is A TON of money in the sale of stolen/non traceable weapons so those looking to make money quickly and unethically will be looking to steal them from. Tell me how this law will impact this issue and make it better? Tell me how this law will positively impact anything? I don't see it. it makes people feel better but it doesn't really solve the problem or even make the problem better. It just makes non gun people feel better and live in their illusion that taking away these magazines will make EVERY gun owner better people and less likely to shoot each other. But that isn't what happens. I support sensible gun laws...this isn't one of them. I understand that your definition of sensible and mine may vary and that's okay. It doesn't make me not responsible because I disagree with this law. Im just lucky I don't live in that state and have the option to make sure I don't live in a state that has that kind of law on the books. ***ETA*** I will tell you who this law benefits more than anyone: Gun Manufacturers. Now they have to create a different market and charge for it, more money for them and that is who benefits when laws like this are made without any real thought to how they solve the actual problem.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 21:22:21 GMT
That answers your question. So in your world you are ok with the doctor who used to work in hospital went back to that hospital and killed one person and wounded several others.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 22:12:24 GMT
Okay I will bite and will probably regret it: 1. As another poster pointed out, handguns especially are sold with 10+ round mags. So it would not be easy to be compliant with this as the manufacturers now have to make more to meet the new demand for the lower capacity mags. They aren't standard so they wouldn't be as readily available as the ones that come with the gun itself. They had 7+ months to switch them out. 2.Didn't see anyone on this thread saying this was taking away anything, other than the amount of ammo they are used to keeping. That said, I think its a slippery slope but I won't argue the point as Im certain you won't see it my way either. To quote the judge who made the ruling "The law approved by voters in November takes away gun owners 2 nd amendment rights" it's noted above in my OP3. Im always a fan of having plan 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. I don't know what situations I will run into and I don't know if 1 bullet will stop it or not. There are many cases where Law Enforcement has had to empty their mags into someone hyped up on whatever and it still didn't take them down. Thats not saying Im going to run into them but when people use this argument, it tells me they don't know anything about using guns etc. Like someone also posted above, many guns now come STANDARD with these magazines, so while they may not consciously go out and find a 10+ round mag, it came with the gun they were purchasing and they probably didn't even give it a second thought. I wouldn't as it is standard. Now if I were to hypothetically purchase a handgun and it came with a drum type magazine, I might question that a bit. But a 10 round mag? Wouldn't even cross my mind. For someone not really familiar with guns, it sounds big and scary, however it really isn't. I'm old. I have lived in a big city and in the country. I had an apartment robbed. I travel to some cities others would consider unsafe. In all that time I have felt the need to have a gun for my protection. It's not that I don't take precautions for my safety I just don't need a gun for my safety. My concern however is being around someone who has a gun and they decide to "show them" and I get caught in the line of fire. 4. The mags are already in the hands of idiots. Going from there, Nobody registers mags. there is no way to track them or figure out who has what. Even if one comes with the weapon that is purchased, there are no serial numbers on the mags themselves. Does this law require registration? Does this law have a way to track who has turned in their mags and who hasn't? What happens if someone is caught with one? Is this law an actual law that will convince people not to use the 10 round mags, which aren't all that high capacity at all. Tell me exactly how this law is going to do anything for the population who doesn't follow the rules as it already stands? Its super easy to cross into NV and AZ and purchase mags and bring them back over the state line, so again who does this law benefit? Not the law abiding citizens that's for sure. If you want to really restrict how many bullets are in a magazine, do something more than just outlawing them. Track them, require serial numbers, figure out who has what and go confiscate them etc. But honestly this law does nothing to curb anything. One thing that it does is stop the sell of them in this state. And if one really is a law abiding gun owner they will get rid of theirs and comply with the law. That is fewer ones available to the nuts out there. In some things you take what you can get. 5. Where are you getting your numbers and what officials are saying these things? Guns get stolen just like any other item that people like to steal, cars etc. I actually typed up police reports where entire gun safes were stolen....That person was responsible and locked up their guns etc...they also reported it, but yet they got stolen anyway. Guns also come from other sources, not just stolen. There is A TON of money in the sale of stolen/non traceable weapons so those looking to make money quickly and unethically will be looking to steal them from. Tell me how this law will impact this issue and make it better? Tell me how this law will positively impact anything? I don't see it. it makes people feel better but it doesn't really solve the problem or even make the problem better. It just makes non gun people feel better and live in their illusion that taking away these magazines will make EVERY gun owner better people and less likely to shoot each other. But that isn't what happens. Like I said the last time I looked it up those were the numbers released. I think they were for 2014 or 2013. Actually you don't know if laws like this one will make things better or not. But if there is a real possibility that laws like this one will saves lives why would you be against it? I support sensible gun laws...this isn't one of them. I understand that your definition of sensible and mine may vary and that's okay. It doesn't make me not responsible because I disagree with this law. Im just lucky I don't live in that state and have the option to make sure I don't live in a state that has that kind of law on the books. ***ETA*** I will tell you who this law benefits more than anyone: Gun Manufacturers. Now they have to create a different market and charge for it, more money for them and that is who benefits when laws like this are made without any real thought to how they solve the actual problem. "I support sensible gun laws ...this isn't one of them" is the standard chant from gun owners. But what makes a sensible gun law that can be supported is anybody's guess. When you ask there is nothing but silence. The one person on this board who was honest about sensible gun laws was @lynlam when she once told me there are no sensible gun laws. I do believe she is correct when it comes to gun , no laws are the best in the minds of way too many gun owners. I did notice how many times you implied this law won't make a difference. But the way I see is if it does save lives it's a no brainer. And when you weigh some who won't be able to get magazines with more then 10 bullets to saving innocent lives.... No brainer. There are some deaths we can't stop no matter what we do like terminal illnesses. But then there are things that can be done to prevent other deaths but when it comes to guns we chose to do very little about it. And that I will never understand.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jun 30, 2017 22:40:13 GMT
1. Honestly I do not know what the manufacturing time is so I can't speak to how long it may or may not take for gun owners to switch out to the magazines, but I do know that I would wait until all the legal proceedings are completed before I switched anything out. These things are always going to court and being fought over. This is my hard earned money and I wouldn't be changing anything out on the possibility it might be a law or not. Again the expectation was a bit to high. 2> Yes the judge said that. Im not sure I agree with him but I do feel its one of those lines that just gets pushed further and further. 3. I'm old. I have lived in a big city and in the country. I had an apartment robbed. I travel to some cities others would consider unsafe. In all that time I have felt the need to have a gun for my protection. It's not that I don't take precautions for my safety I just don't need a gun for my safety. My concern however is being around someone who has a gun and they decide to "show them" and I get caught in the line of fire. That is your life and how you view it. Others view theirs differently. I would almost be wiling to bet you have been with someone who has a gun, you just didn't know and didn't see. Just because someone has a gun doesn't mean they are going to show it off in front of others and get into a shooting match with someone. I have never shown mine off to anyone and very rarely does anyone know I have it on me, unless they know me really really well. 4. One thing that it does is stop the sell of them in this state. And if one really is a law abiding gun owner they will get rid of theirs and comply with the law. That is fewer ones available to the nuts out there. In some things you take what you can get. I see you missed my point about how easy it is to bring them in from other states? Or how do you deal with the ones that are already in the state in the hands of non law abiding citizens? Its just two different views of the problem...I don't see law abiding gun owners as the problem so much as I see the non law abiding ones as being the problem. And until we figure out a way to make these laws apply to them, I don't see how it stops anything 5. Because I don't believe it will. I don't believe that it solves the actual problem. Im not a fan of laws that don't address the actual problem. The problem isn't the purchasing of 10 round magazines. The problem is humanity's lack of caring for each other. Law Abiding citizens aren't out there killing each other and the ones that cross that line and do, kill in various ways, except guns are a guaranteed way to get in the news. You can't tell me it will save a life for certain. You are just hoping it does (and I do too but I don't really think it will) Sensible to me: I approve of the waiting period. I approve of a background check. I approve of having to take a gun safety course at regular intervals. I don't have issues with those laws. They are sensible. I actually would go further and make the license national instead of state by state which would also close the loop hole found at Conventions where people sell them. You have to have a permit to purchase, plain and simple. So yes there are sensible ones out there. Taking away a 10 round magazine that is standard on a gun is not sensible to many. Especially since only one state is doing it and there is no way to regulate it. You are just hoping that the law abiding citizens turn theirs in, but don't care that there are those out there who still have them and don't give a damn if there is a law or not. A lot is done for gun control, its just not to the level you think it should be. Again the ones who win in these laws? Bad guys who don't follow them and the gun manufacturers who are raking in the money with each and every new restriction laid out. ***ETA*** I do see your points, I just don't agree with your interpretation 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2017 23:34:05 GMT
1. Honestly I do not know what the manufacturing time is so I can't speak to how long it may or may not take for gun owners to switch out to the magazines, but I do know that I would wait until all the legal proceedings are completed before I switched anything out. These things are always going to court and being fought over. This is my hard earned money and I wouldn't be changing anything out on the possibility it might be a law or not. Again the expectation was a bit to high. 2> Yes the judge said that. Im not sure I agree with him but I do feel its one of those lines that just gets pushed further and further. 3. I'm old. I have lived in a big city and in the country. I had an apartment robbed. I travel to some cities others would consider unsafe. In all that time I have felt the need to have a gun for my protection. It's not that I don't take precautions for my safety I just don't need a gun for my safety. My concern however is being around someone who has a gun and they decide to "show them" and I get caught in the line of fire. That is your life and how you view it. Others view theirs differently. I would almost be wiling to bet you have been with someone who has a gun, you just didn't know and didn't see. Just because someone has a gun doesn't mean they are going to show it off in front of others and get into a shooting match with someone. I have never shown mine off to anyone and very rarely does anyone know I have it on me, unless they know me really really well. 4. One thing that it does is stop the sell of them in this state. And if one really is a law abiding gun owner they will get rid of theirs and comply with the law. That is fewer ones available to the nuts out there. In some things you take what you can get. I see you missed my point about how easy it is to bring them in from other states? Or how do you deal with the ones that are already in the state in the hands of non law abiding citizens? Its just two different views of the problem...I don't see law abiding gun owners as the problem so much as I see the non law abiding ones as being the problem. And until we figure out a way to make these laws apply to them, I don't see how it stops anything 5. Because I don't believe it will. I don't believe that it solves the actual problem. Im not a fan of laws that don't address the actual problem. The problem isn't the purchasing of 10 round magazines. The problem is humanity's lack of caring for each other. Law Abiding citizens aren't out there killing each other and the ones that cross that line and do, kill in various ways, except guns are a guaranteed way to get in the news. You can't tell me it will save a life for certain. You are just hoping it does (and I do too but I don't really think it will) Sensible to me: I approve of the waiting period. I approve of a background check. I approve of having to take a gun safety course at regular intervals. I don't have issues with those laws. They are sensible. I actually would go further and make the license national instead of state by state which would also close the loop hole found at Conventions where people sell them. You have to have a permit to purchase, plain and simple. So yes there are sensible ones out there. Taking away a 10 round magazine that is standard on a gun is not sensible to many. Especially since only one state is doing it and there is no way to regulate it. You are just hoping that the law abiding citizens turn theirs in, but don't care that there are those out there who still have them and don't give a damn if there is a law or not. A lot is done for gun control, its just not to the level you think it should be. Again the ones who win in these laws? Bad guys who don't follow them and the gun manufacturers who are raking in the money with each and every new restriction laid out. ***ETA*** I do see your points, I just don't agree with your interpretation Fair enough!
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Post by megop on Jul 1, 2017 0:33:23 GMT
Well first of all "changing guns" take $ and gun ownership, while parameters are consistently morphing, is still a protected right.
Your post about "no sensible gun laws" sounds pretty absolute to me as in no private ownership. Is that accurate? Didn't want to assume.
ETA just a bit further: So if a law-abiding gun owner could not afford to switch out their firearm, then they should dispose of it? There are people in poverty who lawfully own guns.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2017 16:20:07 GMT
Since I started this thread yesterday there have been 2 mass shootings. The latest one in Little Rock. From an article
"Police said the shooting at Power Ultra Lounge was the result of a dispute among clubgoers and not an active shooter or terror-related incident. Little Rock police said Saturday that 25 people were shot and three others suffered unrelated injuries. All were expected to survive, police said."
This shooting and the one in Bronx happened because some one got mad and was going to show them. People get mad and just have to whip out their gun to settle it.
The real risk to our safety is not terrorists but nut cases like these guys who think the only way to settle something is with a gun and a country that makes it too damn easy for them to get legal or illegal guns.
And when the voters of state vote on a law to slow this madness down its halted for really no real reason. And then have people whine about the cost to change out a gun is just nuts. And I really have to question why anyone feels they need a gun that will hold more than 10 bullets. Is there a reason or is it just like the new iPhone and the mentality of some they just have to have it because it's new?
Yes this is a rant but you know what? I'm just sick and tired of hearing about another mass shooting or a child killing themselves or another child because someone left their gun out or a mother killed by a stray bullet while protecting her children as they played in their front yard. And instead of stopping this craziness all we get are excuses. And the absolute worse excuse is "this law is punishing law abiding gun owners."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 7:04:47 GMT
Well first of all "changing guns" take $ and gun ownership, while parameters are consistently morphing, is still a protected right. Your post about "no sensible gun laws" sounds pretty absolute to me as in no private ownership. Is that accurate? Didn't want to assume. ETA just a bit further: So if a law-abiding gun owner could not afford to switch out their firearm, then they should dispose of it? There are people in poverty who lawfully own guns. That's a good question, I wonder if it'll ever get a real answer?
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Post by LiLi on Jul 2, 2017 7:34:09 GMT
Well first of all "changing guns" take $ and gun ownership, while parameters are consistently morphing, is still a protected right. Your post about "no sensible gun laws" sounds pretty absolute to me as in no private ownership. Is that accurate? Didn't want to assume. ETA just a bit further: So if a law-abiding gun owner could not afford to switch out their firearm, then they should dispose of it? There are people in poverty who lawfully own guns. I really, really dislike guns personally and would love super strict gun laws. Like, for only a select amount of people would qualify in my ideal word, strict. However, I know other people don't agree and understand the need for compromise. I wouldn't be opposed to a trade in situation for lower income or poverty situations, where help is available to get their "illegal guns" to a legal status. (within limits of course, only what is deemed as needed for protection.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 14:41:56 GMT
That answers your question. So in your world you are ok with the doctor who used to work in hospital went back to that hospital and killed one person and wounded several others. No, I am not OK with it, but I have been trained about the reality of guns to know reducing handgun magazines to less than 10 rounds would not have stopped this person.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 15:55:46 GMT
So in your world you are ok with the doctor who used to work in hospital went back to that hospital and killed one person and wounded several others. No, I am not OK with it, but I have been trained about the reality of guns to know reducing handgun magazines to less than 10 rounds would not have stopped this person. No it wouldn't have stopped him but say he had a gun that had one of those large capacity ammunition magazines. If you have been trained about the reality of guns then you must understand the damage he could have done with one. If this ban has the potential to save lives then I'm all for it. And what I can't understand is the resistance to it especially since no one has made the case on why responsible law abiding gun owners need a magazine that holds more than 10 bullets.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Jul 2, 2017 16:06:49 GMT
The Doctor in the hospital fired 8 rounds, hitting 6 and killing two, no mention of how many were in the original mag in total. He had 10 more rounds in his pocket and the ability to reload and use those 10. He chose a different route. His mag capacity had no impact on how many he shot at, he did. He could have continued and gone through the rest of his ammo, however he didn't. This law wouldn't have saved the doctor he killed or the 6 people he injured. We also haven't had any information on how the doctor got the gun etc. If he got it illegally, then this law also wouldn't have saved anything. What he did was horrific and wrong in many ways and I don't know a single gun owner who would condone or be okay with what he choose to do.
This always comes up in the gun debate and I will bring it up again: Chicago...home of the strictest gun laws....has more shootings than anywhere else. How are those gun laws protecting and saving lives?
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Post by ntsf on Jul 2, 2017 18:50:09 GMT
part of this law is to change the ability to change magazines quickly.. I don't know the technical details, but this is certainly part of the law.. and not just the number of bullets.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:29:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 19:29:10 GMT
The Doctor in the hospital fired 8 rounds, hitting 6 and killing two, no mention of how many were in the original mag in total. He had 10 more rounds in his pocket and the ability to reload and use those 10. He chose a different route. His mag capacity had no impact on how many he shot at, he did. He could have continued and gone through the rest of his ammo, however he didn't. This law wouldn't have saved the doctor he killed or the 6 people he injured. We also haven't had any information on how the doctor got the gun etc. If he got it illegally, then this law also wouldn't have saved anything. What he did was horrific and wrong in many ways and I don't know a single gun owner who would condone or be okay with what he choose to do. This always comes up in the gun debate and I will bring it up again: Chicago...home of the strictest gun laws....has more shootings than anywhere else. How are those gun laws protecting and saving lives? Yes this particular shooter took a different route but he could have very well had the intention of inflicting as much damage as he could and as quickly as he could. There are no absolutes when it comes to laws but we have them because they make a difference. Because they are not 100% effective is no reason not to have them. I'm curious, just where do you think illegal guns come from? I love how gun owners, in mass, act like they are not in some way responsible for illegal guns. Like somehow they mysteriously appear when potential bad guy wants them. Per this snippet from an article Chicago doesn't have the strictest gun laws. "But Chicago Police have disputed that, saying it is a common misconception that Chicago has the country's strictest gun control, and the department's officials have contended that gang members face worse sanctions from their gangs for losing a gun than they do by the courts for illegally possessing one. Police have also emphasized that most guns used in Chicago crimes were bought outside of the city or state, where regulations are not as strict." There is no question if this ban in California can get past that stupid judge it won't keep out or entirely eliminate these magazines. But it may keep out enough to save lives and in this gun crazy culture I see that as a win. And since the magazines will be brought into California even if the ban is reinstated and because of what's happening in Chicago I think makes a very strong case all gun laws should be national. But sadly that will never happen because neither side will find common ground. And in the meantime more people will continue to die.
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