Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053 
|
Post by Olan on Jul 20, 2017 14:39:41 GMT
What are you doing to make things better in your personal life in regards to interactions with white women? Do you smile and say "Hi", as you pass them in the grocery isle? Do you engage them in conversation? Do you belong to groups or organizations with both white and black people? That's the way the world works, we engage on our own little level. The majority of people show an interest in and compassion for, all people. Life is supposed to be about enjoyment. How much enjoyment are you having, dragging old racial baggage behind you? You are living in today's world. Embrace that all those things that are truly regretable, are behind you. Be an example for the youth growing up now. Show them that opportunities exist to make each generation better. Show them that education is the stepping stone to a good life. You have so much potential. Reach for it. I disagree with almost everything you've said. And since you are making inferences about my life may I just say georgiapea you are exactly like the racist older white women in the community I grew up in. I think we've already established that you are in fact from Northwest Indiana and I wasn't off-target with my assumption. I don't need to be reminded of my potential or my obligation to the black community and we are doing just fine as it relates to educational achievements. |
|
georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
|
Post by georgiapea on Jul 20, 2017 16:15:13 GMT
Olan, it's like you WANT to be angry and bitter. As for your assumptions, I was born in San Francisco and lived in Calif. until the age of 12 when my parents upped sticks and moved to Florida. They then dragged me, muttering and sullen, out of Florida and took off for Idaho between my jr. and sr. years of high school. Once on my own I lived in Oregon and Washington for the majority of my adult years and 2 husbands. When current DH got a job in Alabama, we moved there. Hate Alabama politics although the little town is fairly nice. Now, after 55 years I'm back in Florida.
It's like you responded with a chip on your shoulder.So you don't smile and greet white women when you see them in the grocery store? That's really a shame and why do you act that way? Let all that perceived racial crap go and you will be amazed at how welcome you are in any group or one on one interaction. The black women I know are all progressive, interested in making their community better. I've often said how horrified I was to be plunked into segregated Florida in the 50's. Coming from California where such things did not exist was really hard. You should not label anyone else a racist because you know nothing about what is in our hearts.
What job do you hold? My last one was as a Voter Registrant for the State. What hobbies do you enjoy,the things you do just for fun? Well, at one time I guess you were into scrapbooking and probably rubber stamping. Still doing that? I've moved into glass fusing, the tons of 12x12 inch colored glass, the cutting while trying not to remove any parts of my body, and the arranging and cooking the whole mess in a 1600 degree kiln. Best hobby ever! How about travel? Domestic or international? Visits to lighthouses, maybe? The beach? Hiking up mountains? I'm such a couch potato. Other than beaches, those other fun things just don't call to me. What calls to you?
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Jul 20, 2017 16:28:34 GMT
You can't insult me and make baseless assumptions about how I interact IRL then expect I share personal information. I've been apart of this community just as long as you have. If during those years you didn't glean anything from my postings that should also tell you something about yourself.
|
|
georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
|
Post by georgiapea on Jul 20, 2017 16:31:34 GMT
You say over and over that your want dialog but so many have tried and you reject it. WHY are you not willing to discuss your personal enjoyments with us. You would find so many here that are kindered spirits. Show me you are not bitter by having that dialog you say you want.
ETA: Tell us about your educational achievements. We Peas are interested in knowing what path you are taking. You seem to be rejecting the very thing you ask for. Show us that this is a misunderstanding on our part. Please.
|
|
MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
|
Post by MizIndependent on Jul 20, 2017 19:17:04 GMT
On a societal level, this public spectacle of forgiveness is complete and utter bullshit. But white people eat it up. Our forgiveness reassures them that Black people still know their place in this country; it eases their minds, reassures them that nothing has to change, that they don’t have to upset their carefully crafted, artfully curated, violently maintained societal advantages. Black forgiveness sends the message that white people are still on top. On a personal level, we are told that forgiveness is a tool for healing—that it will help us through our pain. That is a confusing message to me. Forgiveness, to me, means recognizing that the pain has dissipated. I can’t recognize that when the wound is still fresh, and being reopened all the time. We are told that forgiveness will help us with our anger, that it will keep our rage from destroying us. This doesn’t make sense to me either. My anger fuels me. Almost every positive change I’ve made in my life has been because something bothered me enough to want to do something about it. If I forgave the people and situations that outraged me, I am not sure I’d be motivated enough to change it. Change often means destroying the old, and I wouldn’t destroy something I found acceptable. We are told that forgiveness allows us to move forward. This, too, is not true. One of the few constants is that life goes on, regardless of what tragedies we face. Time is what allows us to move forward—indeed, it means that moving forward is something we can’t avoid. Forgiveness is not required for progress. We are told that forgiveness is personal. If the act of forgiveness is personal, why does it need to be shared publicly? People ask for forgiveness. They demand forgiveness. If forgiveness is personal, something I should do for myself, then you don’t need it and you don’t get to ask for it. That you are seeking it tells me that it’s a tool for you, not me. We are told that forgiveness and anger aren’t mutually exclusive, that we can be angry and still forgive someone. I don’t know what definition of “forgiveness” people are using for that one, but for me, anger is something that demands change, while forgiveness means accepting things as they are. Forgiveness is complacency. I cannot be outraged by you and forgiving of you at the same time. Either I’m angry and we’re going to work on improving the situation or I’ve decided to accept your bullshit. It’s not both. It’s never both. Forgiveness requires that I lie to myself; I choose to live my truth. It demands I rot inside; I opt to continue my growth. It expects me to swallow my anger and suppress my pain; I express my rage and refine my voice. It requires that I choke on my discomfort to appease you; I allow you to choke on your discomfort and exit, unappeased. I do not forgive—and please, if I wrong you, I don’t want you to forgive me either. I want nothing to do with a tool designed to quiet the mistreated, to manipulate them, to deny them humanity. I do not seek your complacency. I do not want you to tell me shit is fine when it isn’t. I do not want you to hide yourself, lie to yourself, deny yourself. I do not want you to cull your emotions, quell your anger, or gut your pain to meet forgiveness’ demands. I do not want to keep you still, silent, and part of the status quo. I want us to be free. Your definition of forgiveness seems absolute. Based on what you've said above I can deduce the following: -You are confused by the concept of using forgiveness to heal. -You believe forgiveness occurs after the pain has dissipated, that you cannot forgive when the pain is fresh and continually being reopened, i.e. forgiveness is a result of no longer being in pain. -You thrive on anger, using it to give you strength to effect change where you feel change needs to occur. -You live in pain. -You recognize that true forgiveness is personal and cannot be demanded and should not require public examination. -You believe forgiveness equals condoning and complacency. -You believe forgiveness equals lying to yourself, forcing you to continue living in pain to appease others. -You believe that forgiveness is a tool designed to quiet and manipulate the mistreated - to deny their humanity. This is, according to your own words above, your truth about forgiveness. |
|
|
|
Post by *KAS* on Jul 20, 2017 22:49:07 GMT
On a societal level, this public spectacle of forgiveness is complete and utter bullshit. But white people eat it up. Our forgiveness reassures them that Black people still know their place in this country; it eases their minds, reassures them that nothing has to change, that they don’t have to upset their carefully crafted, artfully curated, violently maintained societal advantages. Black forgiveness sends the message that white people are still on top. On a personal level, we are told that forgiveness is a tool for healing—that it will help us through our pain. That is a confusing message to me. Forgiveness, to me, means recognizing that the pain has dissipated. I can’t recognize that when the wound is still fresh, and being reopened all the time. We are told that forgiveness will help us with our anger, that it will keep our rage from destroying us. This doesn’t make sense to me either. My anger fuels me. Almost every positive change I’ve made in my life has been because something bothered me enough to want to do something about it. If I forgave the people and situations that outraged me, I am not sure I’d be motivated enough to change it. Change often means destroying the old, and I wouldn’t destroy something I found acceptable. We are told that forgiveness allows us to move forward. This, too, is not true. One of the few constants is that life goes on, regardless of what tragedies we face. Time is what allows us to move forward—indeed, it means that moving forward is something we can’t avoid. Forgiveness is not required for progress. We are told that forgiveness is personal. If the act of forgiveness is personal, why does it need to be shared publicly? People ask for forgiveness. They demand forgiveness. If forgiveness is personal, something I should do for myself, then you don’t need it and you don’t get to ask for it. That you are seeking it tells me that it’s a tool for you, not me. We are told that forgiveness and anger aren’t mutually exclusive, that we can be angry and still forgive someone. I don’t know what definition of “forgiveness” people are using for that one, but for me, anger is something that demands change, while forgiveness means accepting things as they are. Forgiveness is complacency. I cannot be outraged by you and forgiving of you at the same time. Either I’m angry and we’re going to work on improving the situation or I’ve decided to accept your bullshit. It’s not both. It’s never both. Forgiveness requires that I lie to myself; I choose to live my truth. It demands I rot inside; I opt to continue my growth. It expects me to swallow my anger and suppress my pain; I express my rage and refine my voice. It requires that I choke on my discomfort to appease you; I allow you to choke on your discomfort and exit, unappeased. I do not forgive—and please, if I wrong you, I don’t want you to forgive me either. I want nothing to do with a tool designed to quiet the mistreated, to manipulate them, to deny them humanity. I do not seek your complacency. I do not want you to tell me shit is fine when it isn’t. I do not want you to hide yourself, lie to yourself, deny yourself. I do not want you to cull your emotions, quell your anger, or gut your pain to meet forgiveness’ demands. I do not want to keep you still, silent, and part of the status quo. I want us to be free. I've tried to engage with you. I've agreed with you in the past. But then I see how you respond to basically everybody who tries to engage lately, and I don't feel like being smacked down, so I just go away. I understand how you feel is very real to you - I am an no way trying to diminish those feelings. But it's so different than how other black women in my life (be it friends or coworkers) speak, that I just don't understand it. Do they all secretly feel the same way and just don't say that to me because I'm white? I honestly don't think so. I was trying to understand your point of view in another thread. I *am* interested. I *have* read some of the links you've posted. Many of them were opinion pieces. I read those sometimes and they make me think, and sometimes I look at the source (as in the website they are posted on), and pretty much dismiss them. I do this for multiple sites - usually political in nature. If I can see the website name is something like "right wing" "conservative" "democratic truth", etc. then I pretty much dismiss them because I already know they have an agenda. Regarding this specific article you posted - this stood out at me: And of course the headline Why is it perceived that any of this is specific to black people? The people in Charleston who chose to say they forgave Dylan Roof - why do you (I understand you didn't write it, but I assume you agree since you shared it) think it was done to make White America happy?!? White people were just as horrified by what that racist piece of shit did as black people were. I went and paid my respects at that church a year ago and I cried that day. My tears had nothing to do with race, and everything to do with feeling so terrible for the families that went through that tragic pain. White people that make mistakes are forced to apologize sometimes, too. That's not specific to the black race at all. Why do you perceive the white race as trying to control you? You've said that you're more angry and bitter since the election. I understand that, to a point...but why is that again aimed at all white people? I'm sure you've seen the Trump threads here - plenty of white people despise him too. I almost always vote Republican, but I didn't this year. I think Trump is disgusting. The conversations got confusing the other day. The topic of forgiveness keeps coming up - both as something that apparently white people are demanding and that Black people do not feel compelled to give. But who is demanding forgiveness or apologies? When do these conversations come up? And when slavery DOES come up, how should white people respond? It was a horrific thing in our past. I don't know that much about my ancestry. As far as I've read, we didn't have slaves in our family. I could be wrong though. But regardless, other than "I'm sorry that happened." I had nothing to do with it, and I don't know what I can do to change history, so i'm honestly baffled at what the response should be. I'm not doubting "the black experience." Maybe I don't know what that is, and obviously I don't know what it's like to be black in America. I don't hate you, or think you're a bitch, or whatever else you may think. I think the Philando Castile case had a terrible outcome, I'm glad the Charleston cop is in prison for killing Mr. Scott, and I'm not as sure how I feel in some of the other police shooting cases. Unfortunately there are so many I can't keep them all straight - which is more about our society in general than specific to race. I agree with you that SOME women don't want other women to succeed. Maybe you can leap to 'white women not wanting black women to succeed' in some cases (I guess?), but you could surely say that some black women don't want other black women to succeed too, no? Again, not so much about race, but about petty ass women in general. What if a white woman or a black woman just doesn't like somebody of the opposite race. Is that automatically perceived as racism? And if so, why? How do we get pas the 'us vs. them' mentality? I guess I don't know how to get to a place of mutual understanding when I'm unclear what the issues really are. I am willing to listen. |
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Jul 20, 2017 23:06:32 GMT
You just sound really, really angry and bitter all.the.time.
It must be an exhausting way to live.
And no, I don't think you truly want to engage with anyone here.
You get the responses you get because of the negative attitude you put out.
I tend to ignore or discount posts and threads by you.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Jul 24, 2017 22:29:17 GMT
You just sound really, really angry and bitter all.the.time. It must be an exhausting way to live. And no, I don't think you truly want to engage with anyone here. You get the responses you get because of the negative attitude you put out. I tend to ignore or discount posts and threads by you.Yet here you are. When do you plan on actually ignoring me instead of saying it? Just do it already. It won't change my 2peas experience at all. |
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 13, 2017 16:09:09 GMT
I don't understand what you DO want. What are you looking for? CTSO |
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Aug 13, 2017 22:34:34 GMT
I don't understand what you DO want. What are you looking for? CTSO I have no idea what that means, sorry. |
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 14, 2017 0:10:17 GMT
I have no idea what that means, sorry. Molly we are ignoring each other. You get frustrated so lets keep it going okay. Have a great rest of the weekend! |
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Aug 14, 2017 0:13:27 GMT
I have no idea what that means, sorry. Molly we are ignoring each other. You get frustrated so lets keep it going okay. Have a great rest of the weekend! <banging head>. You quoted ME. Never mind. You enjoy what's left of the weekend as well. |
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 14, 2017 0:18:32 GMT
Molly we are ignoring each other. You get frustrated so lets keep it going okay. Have a great rest of the weekend! <banging head>. You quoted ME. Never mind. You enjoy what's left of the weekend as well. This is a public messageboard. I quoted you but I am not addressing you. Whenever I do I make your name blue that way you have an opportunity to respond. Again have a great weekend. |
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Aug 14, 2017 0:20:36 GMT
<banging head>. You quoted ME. Never mind. You enjoy what's left of the weekend as well. This is a public messageboard. I quoted you but I am not addressing you. Whenever I do I make your name blue that way you have an opportunity to respond. Again have a great weekend. I am totally confused, but hey; live long and prosper, Olan. |
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 14, 2017 1:03:31 GMT
Generally, on a messageboard, there are two ways that you invite/signal a conversation. The first, and most obvious, is when you directly "quote" someone and respond to their post. That, to 99.99% of responders on a messageboard, means that a conversation is taking place. Not a soliloquy. It is normal and expected for the person quoted to respond to the person who quoted her or him. The other is to "tag" someone, using the tag features of the forum/board that they are using. This also invites conversation, similar to quoting someone in your response (see above). That mollycoddle replied to your direct quote of her is expected, Olan. If you don't want her to respond to you and ignore you, then don't quote her. It is basic message board etiquette. mollycoddle, I am guessing that Olan used CTSO to mean "cut that shit out" but she doesn't appear to want to own it. I don't understand what it means in the context of the thread, anyhow, so am not sure if that is what she meant or its more common use of: career and technical student organizations. |
|
|
|
Post by burningfeather on Aug 14, 2017 1:15:01 GMT
I have no idea what that means, sorry. You get frustrated so lets keep it going okay. Have a great rest of the weekend! Pro tip - when you are mutually ignoring each other it means that you also participate in the ignoring. Copying comments and replying is not ignoring. |
|
|
|
Post by compwalla on Aug 14, 2017 1:18:54 GMT
She will continue to hold on to her anger and indignation and allow it to color her entire life. Why the fuck shouldn't she? Racism (overt and systemic) also color her entire life. How does one stop being angry and indignant when the indignities have no foreseeable end? I don't think it's fair to ask her to stop being mad when things happen every single fucking day to further enrage her. |
|
zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,909
|
Post by zookeeper on Aug 14, 2017 1:21:28 GMT
Why the fuck shouldn't she? Racism (overt and systemic) also color her entire life. How does one stop being angry and indignant when the indignities have no foreseeable end? I don't think it's fair to ask her to stop being mad when things happen every single fucking day to further enrage her. Her choice. But if she wants to actually open a dialogue where people will really listen to her....her current method is not working. Yay me...I earned a cuss word from Compwalla. Bye. |
|
|
|
Post by compwalla on Aug 14, 2017 1:32:08 GMT
Why the fuck shouldn't she? Racism (overt and systemic) also color her entire life. How does one stop being angry and indignant when the indignities have no foreseeable end? I don't think it's fair to ask her to stop being mad when things happen every single fucking day to further enrage her. Her choice. But if she wants to actually open a dialogue where people will really listen to her....her current method is not working. Yay me...I earned a cuss word from Compwalla. Bye. It's not an achievement. I curse pretty much all the time. You think she should stop being angry; I don't think anyone has the right to request that of her. I feel her white-hot rage. I acknowledge it. I validate it. Even when it burns me, I still think she has a right to it. That's all. |
|
zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,909
|
Post by zookeeper on Aug 14, 2017 1:41:03 GMT
compwalla You missed the sarcasm about my warranting a fuck from you.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 14, 2017 2:20:17 GMT
Generally, on a messageboard, there are two ways that you invite/signal a conversation. The first, and most obvious, is when you directly "quote" someone and respond to their post. That, to 99.99% of responders on a messageboard, means that a conversation is taking place. Not a soliloquy. It is normal and expected for the person quoted to respond to the person who quoted her or him. The other is to "tag" someone, using the tag features of the forum/board that they are using. This also invites conversation, similar to quoting someone in your response (see above). That mollycoddle replied to your direct quote of her is expected, Olan. If you don't want her to respond to you and ignore you, then don't quote her. It is basic message board etiquette. mollycoddle, I am guessing that Olan used CTSO to mean "cut that shit out" but she doesn't appear to want to own it. I don't understand what it means in the context of the thread, anyhow, so am not sure if that is what she meant or its more common use of: career and technical student organizations. Check this shit out. You don't follow basic messageboard etiquette here so don't force it on me. |
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Aug 14, 2017 2:49:57 GMT
Generally, on a messageboard, there are two ways that you invite/signal a conversation. The first, and most obvious, is when you directly "quote" someone and respond to their post. That, to 99.99% of responders on a messageboard, means that a conversation is taking place. Not a soliloquy. It is normal and expected for the person quoted to respond to the person who quoted her or him. The other is to "tag" someone, using the tag features of the forum/board that they are using. This also invites conversation, similar to quoting someone in your response (see above). That mollycoddle replied to your direct quote of her is expected, Olan . If you don't want her to respond to you and ignore you, then don't quote her. It is basic message board etiquette. mollycoddle , I am guessing that Olan used CTSO to mean "cut that shit out" but she doesn't appear to want to own it. I don't understand what it means in the context of the thread, anyhow, so am not sure if that is what she meant or its more common use of: career and technical student organizations. Check this shit out. You don't follow basic messageboard etiquette here so don't force it on me. I'm not, nor will I ever, force anything on you. You, I assume, have free will to do whatever you wish. Don't force your blatantly incorrect assumptions on me. Eta: you might want to check out urban dictionary for the definition of ctso. If you are going to make up your own definition, you may as well explain it. |
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 20, 2017 11:34:26 GMT
Check this shit out. You don't follow basic messageboard etiquette here so don't force it on me. I'm not, nor will I ever, force anything on you. You, I assume, have free will to do whatever you wish. Don't force your blatantly incorrect assumptions on me. Eta: you might want to check out urban dictionary for the definition of ctso. If you are going to make up your own definition, you may as well explain it. This one was funny. She tells me to check Urban Dictionary cute right  if you click the blue and look at her posting history from today you can see even in my absence she finds someone to nitpick with. For some of them it may not be a tiki torch level of racism and instead the elitist attitude the girl she is arguing with today accuses her of. I find that liberals have the most dangerous type of racist ideals. They think nothing of it yet somehow believe they are better than the Big Bad Republicans. She is the pea who told me any mistreatment I experience at the hands of the police would be warranted because of my posting style here *shocked face* Good read: www.theroot.com/get-out-proves-that-nice-racism-and-white-liberalism-1792955235/ampAlso someone with all the brains *guess* found that the board has a share feature. |
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Aug 20, 2017 11:42:24 GMT
I'm absolutely looking for discussion. No one provides it. Instead you call me racist and angry and never dispute what I'm actually posting about. How could anyone deny what I'm saying without reading the articles that I post. Olan, I think it's you calling everyone else racist. I'm white and I am NOT A RACIST. And to call me a racist simply because I'm white doesn't fly with me. And I dislike the insinuation. You don't know me or anyone else on this board personally. To lump all white people under one category is stupid. Quit acting the victim and put your anger and energy toward having some fun and peace in your life. Says the woman who would run over protestors with her car. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 22, 2024 19:19:07 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 15:37:54 GMT
I honestly think forgiveness is such a personal thing that it cannot possibly demanded of a large group of people.
IMO, atonement is made when things change. When past behaviors or doings are not repeated and a better path is forged, that to me shows a person's true reflective atonement. I believe that you cannot force atonement though. How can it be true and valid if it's not true from the heart?
I most certainly have felt derogatory behaviors from anti-Muslim people. Has it made me angry? Sure as shit it has! The worst of which I have never forgotten...when a person on a MB said my young son should have his head bashed in to prevent a terrorist male in America. I still taste the bitterness of that. BUT as I have reached out to people and have told them what it is like in a Muslim family or trying to find a parallel that gives a common thread, it has bore much sweeter fruit.
I WANT people to look past headscarves and ISIS and see that Muslims are not that much different. It IS hard to swallow those that refuse to understand BUT the potential to connect your message to the one or two that REALLY do want to know and that can SPREAD your message far out weighs those that don't.
No judgement here. Just trying to say what has worked for me.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Apr 11, 2021 17:11:13 GMT
Why does your frustration extend to me? You are right there is no way to atone but that shouldn't stop people from trying. Your part has to be more than questioning your assumptions and privilege. I am frustrated because I don't have the answer. It probably extends to you only because you brought it up. Another relevant bump for the day. Appreciated the honest response then and now. |
|
|
|
Post by teach4u on Apr 12, 2021 1:31:07 GMT
What I’m getting from this is that you hate white people. That about it? I think you made your point.
|
|
Olan
Pearl Clutcher
Enter your message here...
Posts: 4,053
|
Post by Olan on Apr 12, 2021 4:17:34 GMT
|
|
if you click the blue and look at her posting history from today you can see even in my absence she finds someone to nitpick with. For some of them it may not be a tiki torch level of racism and instead the elitist attitude the girl she is arguing with today accuses her of. I find that liberals have the most dangerous type of racist ideals. They think nothing of it yet somehow believe they are better than the Big Bad Republicans. She is the pea who told me any mistreatment I experience at the hands of the police would be warranted because of my posting style here *shocked face*