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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:06:18 GMT
I am at my wits end. I have a 5 year old son that is the oldest of 3 boys, and he is such a handful. He has always been stubborn and strong willed, but the last few weeks he has been so naughty that I don't know how to handle him. He doesn't listen, he's been swearing, he throw things when he gets mad, he screams, it's awful.
I've tried time outs, I've tried taking toys away, taking screen time away... nothing works. I just don't know what to do anymore.
I am a stay at home mom to the kids and I'm sure that has part to do with it. He's bored, it's the end of summer and he's so ready to start school. But the last couple weeks he has been so terribly naughty that I need some advice to make him listen. His attitude is terrible.
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Post by gar on Aug 26, 2014 22:10:03 GMT
So what happens when you send him to time out/naughty step?
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Post by ntsf on Aug 26, 2014 22:10:13 GMT
ignore the screams. do a time out. consistent ..you have to do this over time for it to help. over and over. keep occupied. redirect. or have him do something physical..like touch the toes or something to distract him. ..again, ignore the bad as much as possible and praise the good.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:14:44 GMT
Are you consistent with the time outs? Make him sit, totally silent for five minutes, if he gets up back he goes and the five minutes restarts. Does this over and over until it sinks in. Is he getting enough fresh air, stimulation, sleep? Have you talked to him about starting school, could it be anxiety at the huge change coming up?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:14:48 GMT
So what happens when you send him to time out/naughty step? He screams and/or throws things. He will try to leave the time out space and I have to keep putting him back. If I say "go sit in that room for a 5 minute time out", he'll just be a little sh!t and say "I'm not sitting. I'm going to stand!!!" Everything is a fight lately. Everything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:17:24 GMT
Are you consistent with the time outs? Make him sit, totally silent for five minutes, if he gets up back he goes and the five minutes restarts. Does this over and over until it sinks in. Is he getting enough fresh air, stimulation, sleep? Have you talked to him about starting school, could it be anxiety at the huge change coming up? He's excited for school to start! He asks me every day. I don't think its anxiety. I try to be consistent, but if I really tried to make him sit there for 5 minutes completely silent, it would take me hours. I'm not exaggerating. I don't have that luxury with two other little kids in the house. I do make him sit in time out long enough until he can calm down and we can talk. As for enough fresh air, yes. Sleep, yes. Stimulation? Probably not. I know he's bored at home with me and the other boys. But that doesn't mean he can act like a little poop all day long.
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Aug 26, 2014 22:19:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:20:15 GMT
ignore the screams. do a time out. consistent ..you have to do this over time for it to help. over and over. keep occupied. redirect. or have him do something physical..like touch the toes or something to distract him. ..again, ignore the bad as much as possible and praise the good. Thanks. Redirecting is good advice. Sometimes it's tough for me to remember that in the heat of an argument with him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:23:17 GMT
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Post by ntsf on Aug 26, 2014 22:23:33 GMT
so let him stand. pick the battles. go to room and give him a timer...for you and for him. don't engage with verbal battles...state the rule and state the consequence. tell him you will discuss after 5 minutes. have a contest with him...give him a list of stuff to do for the next hour and reward whatever he can do. don't make him be silent...just ignore. it is hard. maybe have a discussion of behavior at a calm moment. maybe he can be rewarded to play with siblings.
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breetheflea
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Post by breetheflea on Aug 26, 2014 22:25:31 GMT
Did you steal my 5 year old son and make a photocopy? He has been the exact same way. He WILL NOT stay in time out. We have joked that we need a timeout corner with handcuffs because he won't stay there. The other day all he had to do was pick 5 things off the floor, it took 32 hours... He's sassy, rude, throws things, is mean to everyone. Only one week until school starts, only one more long week...
Forgot to add: part of the problem is my son won't stop talking long enough to hear what I'm saying. Then he gets mad because he didn't hear what I said (which I won't repeat) because he talked over me. Repeat endlessly for the past 8 weeks.
I hope you figure something out and I will be reading this thread for ideas!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:30:04 GMT
so let him stand. pick the battles. go to room and give him a timer...for you and for him. don't engage with verbal battles...state the rule and state the consequence. tell him you will discuss after 5 minutes. have a contest with him...give him a list of stuff to do for the next hour and reward whatever he can do. don't make him be silent...just ignore. it is hard. maybe have a discussion of behavior at a calm moment. maybe he can be rewarded to play with siblings. Thanks, I appreciate the advice. I try to remember to pick my battles. I let him stand and don't make him stay silent, I just make him stay in for 5 min. I'll try the timer thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:31:02 GMT
Of course it doesn't but boredom will lead to acting out, it becomes it's own form of entertainment in a way, something to do that is guaranteed to get attention. Does he enjoy anything that the other boys can also be engaged in? Can he help out with them in some way? Give him small tasks and praise him when he does them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 22:31:53 GMT
Did you steal my 5 year old son and make a photocopy? He has been the exact same way. He WILL NOT stay in time out. We have joked that we need a timeout corner with handcuffs because he won't stay there. The other day all he had to do was pick 5 things off the floor, it took 32 hours... He's sassy, rude, throws things, is mean to everyone. Only one week until school starts, only one more long week... Forgot to add: part of the problem is my son won't stop talking long enough to hear what I'm saying. Then he gets mad because he didn't hear what I said (which I won't repeat) because he talked over me. Repeat endlessly for the past 8 weeks. I hope you figure something out and I will be reading this thread for ideas! My son will do the ssame thing when I ask him to clean up. It takes 2 hours to do a 5 minute job. Argh!!! Yes, only one week till school starts.
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luvnlifelady
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Post by luvnlifelady on Aug 26, 2014 22:56:08 GMT
Do the younger ones nap? Can you do something with just him if they do? Maybe make that reward time for behaving? Say, hey do you want to do a puzzle together when your brothers nap? Maybe more one on one attention? I know how frustrating mouthy kids can be but from what I recall, at least my DD waited until her teen years to be a pain (but has been really good lately).
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 26, 2014 22:56:56 GMT
Ugh, my son is the same way (he'll be 4 on Thursday). Part of it is that he's the baby so he's been spoiled. I recognize that, but damn he doesn't have to make it so damn difficult all the time. I don't know to get him to stay in time out, super glue? duct tape? It's insane. Anyhow I've had a small amount of success in giving him limited choices. IE: last night I was trying to get him in our bed (yes, we let him fall asleep with us and then we move him, feel free to judge us), he was being defiant so I gave him 2 choices, get in our bed and lay down nicely or go to his room and be alone. Had to rinse and repeat those choices like 3 times before he finally caught on that I wasn't going to change my mind, he got into our bed. I've also started putting toys into time out. You throw a toy? It's gone to time out (for at least a day). Don't clean up your blocks? Blocks go to time out. Toys are less mouthy in time out Good luck. I take comfort in knowing he's a joy for other people, just lets his guard down at home, plus he starts school again in 2 weeks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 23:04:53 GMT
I know what you mean @johnnysmom. Mine is awesome at school or at friends houses.
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Post by scrapsotime on Aug 26, 2014 23:05:44 GMT
He may be excited for school, but he also may be anxious that he is not going to be home and with you.
How does he normally react to a change in routine?
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Post by ntsf on Aug 26, 2014 23:35:47 GMT
I have great luck having kids that age start the timer and the ring tone on my phone...can't argue with the timer...and let them start it. so..."in 1 minute, you will xyz"...here, set the timer...
as much concrete tactile stuff as possible. visual cues are really good at this age...charts, lists, timers, anything to take focus off you telling him something.
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Post by Merge on Aug 26, 2014 23:39:28 GMT
What kind of positive structure have you tried? It sounds like he might respond better to a carrot than the stick. Consider something like what his teachers will likely use at school - a sliding scale of colors and a clothespin clipped to it. He starts each day on green and can move up to blue for good behavior or down to yellow or red for bad. When you're starting out, reward him for a short time - perhaps an hour - spent on green or blue. As he gains understanding you can lengthen the amount of time needed to earn the reward. Make the reward small and immediate, but high value to him - 10 minutes of video game time, a sticker with a favorite character, reading a favorite book together, etc. Make sure to discuss the specific behaviors that might cause him to move up or down the chart so he's not wondering what he did wrong. Also discuss other, healthier ways to vent frustration when he feels angry. Good luck! It's been a while since my kids were that age but as a teacher I'm pretty familiar with obstinate five year olds. This too shall pass. Eta: if you haven't already, this is a good age (of his) for you to read Parenting With Love and Logic.
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 26, 2014 23:43:46 GMT
I don't claim to be a parenting expert, but I have been through two kids that age so far, and I found that their behavior was always better when they had some responsibilities, when I praised them for the things they did that were helpful and positive, and when I was feeling happy and peaceful. The more I got stressed out by their behavior and showed the stress, the worse it got. Which is a hard thing to tamp down. As is praising a kid who is driving you nuts.
Have you read any of the Alfie Kohn books? I don't agree with him 100% about all things ever, but I find that his thoughts map more onto mine than most parenting books I have read, and, if nothing else, they make you think about your approach.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 0:04:24 GMT
Merge those are awesome ideas. I will work on a chart and start that this week. I think you're right though, sticks are NOT WORKING. I will try carrots.
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Post by SunnySmile on Aug 27, 2014 0:05:45 GMT
I've gone through this too. Each child is different, but in general I have found that the child acting up is needing more one on one time with me, or they are tired. We can't always stop and give one on one time or have them take a nap, so I have found distraction works the best. If you're out shopping, tell them you will play a game while shopping...something like how many red boxes can you find, how many vegetables can they name when you are in the produce section, etc. The link above to the brain freebie list is a great idea too. Good luck!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 0:07:13 GMT
epeanymous I will check out those books. I've never heard of him. I know what you're saying about me keeping my cool...it's just been exhausting trying to not lose it lately. Some days I would sell him for $1.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 27, 2014 0:09:13 GMT
What kind of positive structure have you tried? It sounds like he might respond better to a carrot than the stick. Eta: if you haven't already, this is a good age (of his) for you to read Parenting With Love and Logic. DS was the tester of rules and the most stubborn person I've ever known. If I to tell him to stop hitting his sister, he would kick her. If I told him no hitting or kicking, he would shove. That kids drove me batty. I know I did much better with him when we had some time apart. I was more patient and more consistent. And he was distracted because he had other stuff going on. I agree with Love and Logic. When I started doing that, it was like it all clicked. For both of us. Don't take it personally. It's easy to get frustrated if you just spent the entire nap time playing Legos and reading to him, and then he's a little imp when you want him to clean up. Set the timer and leave the room. Empathize with him, but stand firm. Be consistent. Without fail. Even if it's inconvenient. Five year olds love to test the system. They are now old enough to figure out how things work and want to know what they can get away with. This is why you pick your battles. Because you can only choose one or two things to work on at a time. Otherwise you can't be consistent with the rules. Tell yourself all week long that you just have to hang in there until next Tuesday. Then you will get a break from 5 year olds and the younger two can drive you nuts. And remember this for next year--you need a plan for the end of the summer. Do something different, enroll him in a camp, take a quick get a way, something different.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Aug 27, 2014 0:17:17 GMT
Here's my philosophy: I don't believe in ignoring tantrums, because it teaches them it's okay to throw fits and that they don't need to get control. Then they grow up to be the people who throw fits and say nasty crap and expect it to bother no one, because, "Just ignore me when I get like that!"
Here's my strategy: So I would put them in their room, close the door, and tell them they could come out when they were ready to behave like a civilized person and when I decided I wanted to be around them again. (Note that I wasn't leaving them in their room for hours, just long enough to make an impression.) I wanted to teach them control, that they had to behave decently if they wanted to be around others, and that if you behave badly people aren't going to be quick to want to be around you. It didn't take any of them long to learn to control the fits or the sassy mouth. And believe me, my kids were stubborn, but they also could figure out the difference between stubborn and self-defeating. (And when I could see that they were successfully suppressing the desire to behave badly, I praised them in their early years.)
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Aug 27, 2014 1:25:07 GMT
It may be time to shake things up a bit. Head off the boredom with a surprise trip to the park, the zoo, etc. He probably is bored and isn't quite old enough to vent his frustrations appropriately. Good luck.
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TankTop
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Post by TankTop on Aug 27, 2014 1:30:59 GMT
Merge those are awesome ideas. I will work on a chart and start that this week. I think you're right though, sticks are NOT WORKING. I will try carrots. Sounds like this is a great idea!
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 27, 2014 1:59:05 GMT
Sometimes kids are just giant turds. Time out standing sounds good. Talk all you want because I am going to leave the room. Maybe time out isn't the best consequence for him. I don't know what is, but perhaps something he loves could be taken away. How many days until school starts?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 2:36:51 GMT
7 days...7 days...7 days. Lol. I can do it!!
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