tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,884
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Jul 21, 2017 20:26:46 GMT
Vermont already has a law on the books that would require you to help in a situation like this. This link also talks about liability when helping. Good Samaritan Law^^^ yeah, but this law only protects you if you DECIDE to help- it doesn't look like it REQUIRES you to help. Ummm ... actually, this is the quote from the article: link
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paget
Drama Llama
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Posts: 6,830
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 21, 2017 20:27:28 GMT
That is disgusting. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg) I would support a law that someone had to do what is reasonably expected to summon help- such as calling 911 or asking someone else with a phone to call 911. Yes, it would be a ambiguous type of law but in this case I think it work to prosecute these jackholes because they obviously had a phone and did nothing. ETA: I think most of the time it wouldn't be needed as most people are decent but in the few disturbing and egregious cases such as this there would be a way to penalize an obvious case of wrong doing such as this.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2017 20:31:09 GMT
I swear, I read that article twice, and didn't see that either time! thanks for pointing it out. (eta: how odd; when I clicked on the link originally, it took me to a page titled 'what is the purpose of Good Samaritan laws" not to the page you linked in your next post.)
It looks like each state has its own statues on that- Arizona doesn't have a requirement at all, other states the Good Samaritan law only kicks in for certain medical assistance, etc. I wonder if the Vermont law requiring a person to render assistance has even been tested?
It did say all 5 kids had been smoking weed, right? I know marijuana can cause hallucinations and make you paranoid; perhaps that played into their decision to not help. (I hope it did, otherwise they really have no moral compass whatsoever.)
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,909
Aug 28, 2014 2:37:56 GMT
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Post by zookeeper on Jul 21, 2017 20:35:48 GMT
When did our society become so callous about human life? This is deeply saddening.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 21, 2017 20:38:47 GMT
I swear, I read that article twice, and didn't see that either time! thanks for pointing it out. (eta: how odd; when I clicked on the link originally, it took me to a page titled 'what is the purpose of Good Samaritan laws" not to the page you linked in your next post.) It looks like each state has its own statues on that- Arizona doesn't have a requirement at all, other states the Good Samaritan law only kicks in for certain medical assistance, etc. I wonder if the Vermont law requiring a person to render assistance has even been tested? It did say all 5 kids had been smoking weed, right? I know marijuana can cause hallucinations and make you paranoid; perhaps that played into their decision to not help. (I hope it did, otherwise they really have no moral compass whatsoever.) I listened to part of the video. They weren't paranoid, they weren't scared to help, they have no moral compass whatsoever. They LAUGHED as this man drowned.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2017 20:42:51 GMT
![:huh:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/6XNh98aNlGG6JLnVAPyQ.jpg) that is just awful. (I couldn't bring myself to watch the video)
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Post by mimi3566 on Jul 21, 2017 20:44:12 GMT
What concerns me most is that there were 5 of them, and not a single conscience between them. This isn't some lone sociopath. It's a society of bankrupt kids. It terrifies me that there are so many of them together. Peer pressure is powerful in numbers and 5 is a lot of power.
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Post by mimi3566 on Jul 21, 2017 20:46:37 GMT
I know marijuana can cause hallucinations and make you paranoid I've heard paranoid, but not hallucinations
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Post by mimi3566 on Jul 21, 2017 20:49:49 GMT
Just another reason why I prefer animals over humans.
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Post by ilikepink on Jul 21, 2017 20:50:20 GMT
I'm thoroughly repulsed by what these teens did and didn't do. But, a law requiring people to help will open a can of worms. While it would have been good in this circumstance, many other situations can be misunderstood. If people don't have the ability to help, they can make things worse. The call for help should come because we are human beings and should care about life. Obvious to me is the lessons these teens missed-either because their parents didn't ever tell them to care about others and help when you can, or they are idiots who really don't care. The drugs have an affect on how they behave, obviously.
I've been involved in EMS since 1980. I can't imagine not helping someone in need, ever. This makes me sick for the future of the human race, but you can't legislate people to care.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 21, 2017 20:53:21 GMT
It looks like Minnesota also has a duty to assist: www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=604a.01I'm not against a duty to assist law if it's clear as above that one doesn't need to put themselves in peril.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 21, 2017 20:55:38 GMT
I would support a law requiring you to call for help. Meanwhile, I hope that karma hits each one of those assholes.
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Post by miominmio on Jul 21, 2017 20:58:25 GMT
I think I'm conflicted on this. I don't support the idea of requiring a bystander to render aid or be charged with a crime. If you lack the ability to help correctly you put yourself at risk and those who then have to rescue you too. If the law were that a bystander is require to call for aid in a scenario like this, what happens if you incorrectly identify a situation as not an emergency when it is? I think the burden on the bystander is more than is appropriate. On the other hand this transcends all human decency and any person with one shred of moral decency would have called 911 rather than filming. What useless specimens those teens are. Absolutely cowardly and pathetic. We've had a law like this here for more than a century, and it's not a problem at all to write a law that states that you have to help to the best of your ability. You are not expected to risk your life to help others. If you didn't understand that it wasn't an emergency, you will not get nto any kind of legal trouble. The same if you mistakingly identify the situation as someone being in danger, and call 110/112 or 113. No one is going to hold you accountable for your mistake (unless you call the emergency lines on a weekly basis just to be an ass).
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Post by Lexica on Jul 21, 2017 21:01:51 GMT
I couldn't support a law that required someone to render aid due to the many possible circumstances that would cause the average person to hesitate or even refuse to render aid to someone. And I'm talking something such as a fear of losing their own life.
BUT, I would possibly support a law that required a witness to call emergency services if it was within their ability to do so. That would depend on the language of the law.
I would so hate to be related to one of these boys. I would not feel the same about them as a human being ever again. I am not typically one to wish ill on another, but I hope in this case that that man's death sits on their conscience for the remainder of their lives.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 21, 2017 21:07:11 GMT
I know marijuana can cause hallucinations and make you paranoid I've heard paranoid, but not hallucinations ^^ I know it's not common, but it's possible... drugabuse.gov marijuana marijuana effects "People who have taken large doses of marijuana may experience an acute psychosis, which includes hallucinations, delusions, and a loss of the sense of personal identity."
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Post by pondrunner on Jul 21, 2017 21:19:26 GMT
I think I'm conflicted on this. I don't support the idea of requiring a bystander to render aid or be charged with a crime. If you lack the ability to help correctly you put yourself at risk and those who then have to rescue you too. If the law were that a bystander is require to call for aid in a scenario like this, what happens if you incorrectly identify a situation as not an emergency when it is? I think the burden on the bystander is more than is appropriate. On the other hand this transcends all human decency and any person with one shred of moral decency would have called 911 rather than filming. What useless specimens those teens are. Absolutely cowardly and pathetic. We've had a law like this here for more than a century, and it's not a problem at all to write a law that states that you have to help to the best of your ability. You are not expected to risk your life to help others. If you didn't understand that it wasn't an emergency, you will not get nto any kind of legal trouble. The same if you mistakingly identify the situation as someone being in danger, and call 110/112 or 113. No one is going to hold you accountable for your mistake (unless you call the emergency lines on a weekly basis just to be an ass). That sounds fair enough to me. Still bothers me that some people need to be told to do the right thing but this sounds acceptable to me as a law. Seems to me that basic human decency creates a responsibility for a person who is able to do something for someone in trouble even if that is just making a phone call.
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Post by busy on Jul 21, 2017 21:41:35 GMT
When did our society become so callous about human life? This is deeply saddening. There have always been despicable people like this. They just didn’t have the means to broadcast (literally) their depravity to the world.
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Post by melanell on Jul 21, 2017 21:51:28 GMT
This story is horrifying and I am appalled at the actions of the teens. I truly am.I could hardly read the article. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png) I can't even imagine acting that way nor can I imagine how I would feel if I were the drowning victim's family or the parents of those teens. I feel like I could be physically ill even trying to imagine my kids doing something so awful. But a blanket law requiring people seeing someone in danger to call for help help sounds like something that could be dangerous as well. ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/mYSUyHtG9Jrcmm_ydVcK.jpg)
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jul 21, 2017 21:52:48 GMT
I think that there should be a consequence for videoing and not calling for help. I wouldn't expect someone to endanger their own lives, but call for help.
What's next for these teens? If they had such a good time doing this, what's next? It's sick and to be able to watch someone struggle and die without feeling horrible shows a lack of empathy and probably many other issues. Nothing can be done until someone does something truly horrible that breaks the law. How much occurs before that incident? Pretty shitty for whatever family that incident involves!
With that said, I didn't read the article only small pieces. I couldn't stomach the idea of what they did.
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zookeeper
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,909
Aug 28, 2014 2:37:56 GMT
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Post by zookeeper on Jul 21, 2017 21:56:26 GMT
There have always been despicable people like this. They just didn’t have the means to broadcast (literally) their depravity to the world. I believe this is true.....
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 3:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 22:05:54 GMT
Laws can not make people do things, they only serve to punish after the fact. No law would have made those morally bankrupt boys have lifted a finger to help. They just didn't have it in them to give a damn. The fact of the matter is, they don't value life; neither their own nor any one else's. I am appalled that the victim's sister not only posted the video on FB, but is selling shirts, etc. Way to capitalize on your brother's loss.
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Post by jtmom on Jul 21, 2017 22:27:31 GMT
When did our society become so callous about human life? This is deeply saddening.
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Post by busy on Jul 21, 2017 22:33:18 GMT
Laws can not make people do things, they only serve to punish after the fact. No law would have made those morally bankrupt boys have lifted a finger to help. They just didn't have it in them to give a damn. The fact of the matter is, they don't value life; neither their own nor any one else's. I am appalled that the victim's sister not only posted the video on FB, but is selling shirts, etc. Way to capitalize on your brother's loss. You know what, that family has lost him forever, and as crass as it sounds, that includes his earning power. Whatever they need to do to make up some of that income, more power to them. People’s memories are short - some may be willing to help now by buying t-shirts or whatever, but in a couple weeks, probably not.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2017 22:43:01 GMT
I would not support the law. I would support a law that limits or erases consequences for helping (like the good samaritan law where you can't be sued for helping).
These kids are assholes. They will probably always be assholes. I hope they have nightmares and live miserable lives.
As a parent, I hope I have raised my children better than this. I hope that they would try and help or at least call 911. I hope they will never laugh at someone in need.
If my child had been one of this group, there would be severe consequences at home.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2017 22:45:57 GMT
BUT, I would possibly support a law that required a witness to call emergency services if it was within their ability to do so. That would depend on the language of the law. I think I could support this
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 3:54:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2017 22:58:21 GMT
I cannot even think of a reply to the question in the OP because I want to curl up into a ball and cry. How unbelievably cruel and soulless. Exactly this!
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
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Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Jul 21, 2017 22:59:44 GMT
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Post by elaine on Jul 21, 2017 23:08:49 GMT
What concerns me most is that there were 5 of them, and not a single conscience between them. This isn't some lone sociopath. It's a society of bankrupt kids. It terrifies me that there are so many of them together. Oodles and oodles of psychological research has supported the notion that the more bystanders there are at a tragedy, the LESS likely any one of them will help. It started after the Kitty Genovese incident in the 70s. It is a sad, but true fact of human nature that if only one of those teens happened upon the scene, he would have been more likely to help or phone for help. That there were 5 of them made it less likely any one of them felt the individual responsibility to help.
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Post by drummergirl65 on Jul 22, 2017 1:11:32 GMT
These kids are just a bunch of bastards. You would have to have no moral compass to be able to do nothing and laugh at that poor man. What about the parents? I would be utterly mortified if my son had acted this way and I would be darn sure that he wouldn't again.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 22, 2017 1:23:52 GMT
Unfortunately, you can't legislate compassion or decency. What they did is so, so sick and wrong, but I don't think it can be legislated against. I agree. But I just have to say, what on earth is wrong with those teens?! It's not like you have only one bad person there doing nothing. There are five! Five of them decided to mock a drowning man and film his death instead of taking that damn phone and calling 911. They sicken me. I would be so ashamed if they were my child.
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