|
Post by frenchie on Jul 22, 2017 1:33:53 GMT
Honestly, I saw the headline and a picture of the victim (from an earlier time) and I couldn't bring myself to read it. It's horrendous and it rips my heart out. I don't know the particulars, but these teens need to be prosecuted. Just sickening and heart wrenching.
|
|
Nanner
Drama Llama
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 5,987
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
|
Post by Nanner on Jul 22, 2017 1:50:12 GMT
OMG! What an evil, disgusting group of people those teenagers are. I truly hope there is something those disgusting POS' can be charged with.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 3:21:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 1:56:18 GMT
What concerns me most is that there were 5 of them, and not a single conscience between them. This isn't some lone sociopath. It's a society of bankrupt kids. It terrifies me that there are so many of them together. Oodles and oodles of psychological research has supported the notion that the more bystanders there are at a tragedy, the LESS likely any one of them will help. It started after the Kitty Genovese incident in the 70s. It is a sad, but true fact of human nature that if only one of those teens happened upon the scene, he would have been more likely to help or phone for help. That there were 5 of them made it less likely any one of them felt the individual responsibility to help. Yes but that research is for a crowd sort of paralysis, where no one does anything because everyone thinks someone else will or is. This was a collective, active choice to let that man die, not an accidental one of assuming someone else was helping. This is terrifyingly depraved.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2017 2:45:49 GMT
Oodles and oodles of psychological research has supported the notion that the more bystanders there are at a tragedy, the LESS likely any one of them will help. It started after the Kitty Genovese incident in the 70s. It is a sad, but true fact of human nature that if only one of those teens happened upon the scene, he would have been more likely to help or phone for help. That there were 5 of them made it less likely any one of them felt the individual responsibility to help. Yes but that research is for a crowd sort of paralysis, where no one does anything because everyone thinks someone else will or is. This was a collective, active choice to let that man die, not an accidental one of assuming someone else was helping. This is terrifyingly depraved. Um, not really. They have replicated the observation from Kitty Genovese with groups of people in the same waiting room, for example, who hear someone in the next room fall off a ladder. Or, a preacher crossing campus, late for a talk, when someone is in physical danger in the quad in front of him and others on the quad as he is hurrying to give his talk (even the priest doesn't stop to help). It is NOT about a large crowd paralysis, research shows that even in SMALL groups, as long as someone thinks that even ONE more person could be responsible, then people abdicate their personal responsibility. I am positively certain about this, as it was part of my graduate studies 25 years ago, but I'll be happy go back and pull up specific citations for you if you want them. What the boys did was disgusting and turned my stomach. I don't think that what they did is because society is slipping, however. There are examples of this behavior amongst humans throughout the ages, unfortunately. There were plenty who have stood by throughout history while other innocents were killed or died. I'm not justifying it, or saying it is okay. I'm just saying it isn't new and is a dark side of human nature that people don't want to look at.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 3:21:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 2:52:13 GMT
Yes but that research is for a crowd sort of paralysis, where no one does anything because everyone thinks someone else will or is. This was a collective, active choice to let that man die, not an accidental one of assuming someone else was helping. This is terrifyingly depraved. Um, not really. They have replicated the observation from Kitty Genovese with groups of people in the same waiting room, for example, who hear someone in the next room fall off a ladder. Or, a preacher crossing campus, late for a talk, when someone is in physical danger in the quad in front of him and others on the quad as he is hurrying to give his talk (even the priest doesn't stop to help). It is NOT about a large crowd paralysis, research shows that even in SMALL groups, as long as someone thinks that even ONE more person could be responsible, then people abdicate their personal responsibility. I am positively certain about this, as it was part of my graduate studies 25 years ago, but I'll be happy go back and pull up specific citations for you if you want them. What the boys did was disgusting and turned my stomach. I don't think that what they did is because society is slipping, however. There are examples of this behavior amongst humans throughout the ages, unfortunately. There were plenty who have stood by throughout history while other innocents were killed or died. I'm not justifying it, or saying it is okay. I'm just saying it isn't new and is a dark side of human nature that people don't want to look at. But I guess my point is this WASN'T because one of them thought another might do something. They all KNEW no one was doing something or would do something, and they watched anyway, and even mocked. That to me is a very different thing than just waiting for someone else to take action.
|
|
|
Post by elaine on Jul 22, 2017 3:33:02 GMT
Um, not really. They have replicated the observation from Kitty Genovese with groups of people in the same waiting room, for example, who hear someone in the next room fall off a ladder. Or, a preacher crossing campus, late for a talk, when someone is in physical danger in the quad in front of him and others on the quad as he is hurrying to give his talk (even the priest doesn't stop to help). It is NOT about a large crowd paralysis, research shows that even in SMALL groups, as long as someone thinks that even ONE more person could be responsible, then people abdicate their personal responsibility. I am positively certain about this, as it was part of my graduate studies 25 years ago, but I'll be happy go back and pull up specific citations for you if you want them. What the boys did was disgusting and turned my stomach. I don't think that what they did is because society is slipping, however. There are examples of this behavior amongst humans throughout the ages, unfortunately. There were plenty who have stood by throughout history while other innocents were killed or died. I'm not justifying it, or saying it is okay. I'm just saying it isn't new and is a dark side of human nature that people don't want to look at. But I guess my point is this WASN'T because one of them thought another might do something. They all KNEW no one was doing something or would do something, and they watched anyway, and even mocked. That to me is a very different thing than just waiting for someone else to take action. If you want to take that approach, you can look at Asch's study on conformity in 1951. We, as social animals, conform to the group behavior/norm. Think of how many people sat by and watched people dragged away and tortured during the Holocaust. Or the Inquisition. or the Salem Witch trials. The behavior is horrendous and disgusting, and deserves some sort of consequences, but nothing new in terms of human nature.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 30, 2024 3:21:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 3:47:22 GMT
But again, those are different because in those cases, it can be reasonably presumed that onlookers did nothing due to fear or self-preservation. These kids weren't afraid to help. They literally hastened this man's death with their callousness, and entertained themselves while doing it.
I guess I just WANT to believe that new. It's so terrible to think about, that I would wish to not believe it happens regularly.
|
|
Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,221
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
|
Post by Peamac on Jul 22, 2017 4:21:02 GMT
I can't believe they knew he died and never called to report it. They could have called anonymously if they were afraid of police.
That poor family, wondering for days about their son/brother/fiance only to find out later that he had already been dead for a while.
|
|
|
Post by brina on Jul 22, 2017 16:35:04 GMT
Unbelievable that not a single one of those little shits would call 911.
However, it is a good thing that none of them attempted to go in after him. An untrained person attempting a water rescue without equipment is more likely to die with the original victim than they are to successfully complete the rescue. Even with training lifeguards are taught 'throw, row, go'. That is you do not go into the water after a person unless there is no other option.
The behavior of thes teens is reprehensible.
|
|
teddyw
Drama Llama
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 6,912
Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
|
Post by teddyw on Jul 23, 2017 0:10:13 GMT
I hope everyone who knows who these kids are, names them and then the community shuns them forever. They are certainly lacking in the feelings that make a person human. I feel the same way.
|
|
|
Post by jcm28 on Jul 23, 2017 1:09:06 GMT
They *are* being charged for failure to report a death. Just saw this on the local news.
Janet
|
|
|
Post by anniefb on Jul 23, 2017 1:13:34 GMT
Unfortunately, you can't legislate compassion or decency. What they did is so, so sick and wrong, but I don't think it can be legislated against. SaveSave
|
|
|
Post by genny on Jul 23, 2017 1:25:25 GMT
I watched the first part of the video when it first hit the news and quickly had to turn it off. The inhumanity of it made me sick to my stomach and made my heart hurt. I grieved for that poor man - I don't know why he was in that lake and it does not matter. If he heard that as he was dying...I just cannot wrap my head around it. I am sickened by their actions. I hope they are able to find a way to charge these kids, what they did was unconscionable. I am torn on the legislation as OP questions because of all the same arguements I've seen raised - what if you cant swim or at least not well? You'd risk your own life because a drowning person usually latches on the pushes the person or thing closest down to get up for air. Are you required to run into a burning building bc you know someone is inside even though your risk of bodily harm or death is high? I don't know how you legislate that. But that said, I think if they can find a way to word it so that if you CAN help you SHOULD. I am not opposed to a law requiring someone to call for aid if they are able? <sigh> I just don't know how it could be worded so that a person who literally CAN'T for some reason (mentally impaired maybe?) would not be punished. I am just devastated that in this world this is even a discussion we have to even have. I told my kids (20 year old boys and 17 year old girl) and they were all disgusted and speechless.
|
|
River
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,530
Location: Alabama
Jun 26, 2014 15:26:04 GMT
|
Post by River on Jul 23, 2017 16:38:00 GMT
Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I am completely conflicted on whether new laws should be in place, but also afraid that they could be a slippery slope.
I'm still just sick over this.
|
|
River
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,530
Location: Alabama
Jun 26, 2014 15:26:04 GMT
|
Post by River on Jul 23, 2017 16:39:23 GMT
They *are* being charged for failure to report a death. Just saw this on the local news. Janet I hope something can come of this!
|
|