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Post by kandie on Aug 27, 2014 15:23:23 GMT
13 year old DD has a friend Lisa (names changed). They are both in 8th grade. Lisa has always been tomboyish.
Lisa has slept over at our house several times last year. Sweet kid and great family!!!
Lisa and my DD hang out with the same group of friends and have similar interests.
Lisa came back to school as Larry.
I had a long discussion with my DD, she totally accepts Larry and has no problem refering to Lisa as Larry or as a boy.
Now here is the issue.
Boys are not allowed to sleep over at our house.
Larry (Lisa) has slept over here as Lisa.
How do I address this now if DD wants him to sleep over. It is still the same child. she has the genitalia of a female but she is identifying as a boy.
thoughts??
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Post by dulcemama on Aug 27, 2014 15:28:24 GMT
For me, I would say that Larry still gets to sleep over. This child has done so before and I think should be allowed to continue to do so. I think your DD is old enough to understand the nuances of a situation like this. Maybe explain to her your reasons for the "No Boys" rule and how this situation differs.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 27, 2014 15:30:04 GMT
I would feel it appropriate to ask the parents how they are choosing to help the child assimilate into his preferred gender and what their rules are. I think this is a great learning opportunity for everyone.
That being said, I had a male best friend at that age. We did sleep overs until about 10 and then lost interest in that as we started to really explore our girly/male sides and chose other friends to have that activity with. I was not interested in the "boy" games he was starting to focus on and I wanted to do nail polish and makeovers. We had never acted in any sexual or experimental way towards each other. Just because you are of the opposite sex doesn't mean there's hanky panky, as you well know.
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Post by peace on Aug 27, 2014 15:31:42 GMT
I think you stick to your rule. Larry identifies as a boy. Larry doesn't sleep over. Frankly, I think he'll be happy you are respecting his wishes. He can still come over and hang out. But to me if he identifies and has crossed that line, I would respect it and regardless of his genitalia, treat him as a boy.
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ostrichgirl
Shy Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:51:08 GMT
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Post by ostrichgirl on Aug 27, 2014 15:33:26 GMT
Larry will need all the friend's he can get. Changing that dynamic of their relationship will be hurtful. I would be okay with it.
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Post by gar on Aug 27, 2014 15:36:16 GMT
What are the reasons for your rules about no boys - that should help you decide.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 11, 2024 0:26:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 15:37:24 GMT
I would permit it. Larry is the same person that he was when he was living as Lisa and he was permitted to stay over then. This is "simply" the start of an important external transition. Nothing is really changing about who he is - his outsides are just beginning to match what's always been inside.
However, I would talk to your daughter about not talking about him spending the night at school, in order to avoid any awkward discussions about why he can sleep over but other boys can't, etc..
I would consider revisiting this as they age, but now... I would continue to allow sleepovers.
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Post by tuva42 on Aug 27, 2014 15:38:02 GMT
I agree with the above poster. I don't allow sleepovers with boys for my DDs, but in your case I think you do have to think about WHY its good not to allow them. And if Larry doesn't pose the threat you are worried about, then go ahead and invite him.
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Post by Laura in OK on Aug 27, 2014 15:40:54 GMT
I think you stick to your rule. Larry identifies as a boy. Larry doesn't sleep over. Frankly, I think he'll be happy you are respecting his wishes. He can still come over and hang out. But to me if he identifies and has crossed that line, I would respect it and regardless of his genitalia, treat him as a boy. I think this is appropriate because of their ages. She's 13. That's when it's great to have a best guy friend but not for sleepovers. If they were younger, say 8 or 9, my answer would be different. There are still lots of fun activities they can do together.
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Nink
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Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Aug 27, 2014 15:41:30 GMT
This is a tough one, but I would say if your rule is no boys, and since Larry is now a boy then the rules apply to him. I would respect his wishes to be treated as male and that includes the "rules" that go along with it.
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Post by Zee on Aug 27, 2014 15:47:43 GMT
Very interesting food for thought...I'd be really torn on this one. I would hate for Larry to lose a friend, but if Larry is now a boy, I'm not sure sleepovers are appropriate anymore given your rules. Though if I was your DD, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I'm not sure I'd still want sleepovers with Larry. It changes things, you know? Larry is still Lisa inside, though, so.... ? ?
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blue tulip
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Jun 25, 2014 20:53:57 GMT
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Post by blue tulip on Aug 27, 2014 15:48:33 GMT
how awesome that his parents accepted him and let him change. that's really great and i hope it's a sign that they are supporting him fully! what a tricky situation tho- i agree with parts of all the previous posts, on the "yes" and "no" sides. i think the instinct would be, if you were fully treating him like a boy, then he can't stay over. of course he doesn't have to lose your daughter as a friend, but he just has to go home at bedtime and can come back in the morning. if you two have a good relationship, maybe you could say you're happy he's finding out more about who he really is, and you support him 100%, but because you do you have to hold him to the same rules as other boys.
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Post by bc2ca on Aug 27, 2014 15:54:09 GMT
I'd consider both of the above and also talk to my DD and find out what she thinks and consider that in going forward. Your DD and friends may have already discussed this and have sorted in their minds how it should be handled. She might just consider it a "done deal" because of the "no boys" rule.
If it is group sleepovers, you need to think about whether other parents would object to Larry being allowed to sleep over still.
Good for you being proactive on this. Way better than having to make a quick decision when the situation comes up.
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Post by mzza111 on Aug 27, 2014 15:56:06 GMT
I would feel it appropriate to ask the parents how they are choosing to help the child assimilate into his preferred gender and what their rules are. I think this is a great learning opportunity for everyone. I think this is a great idea. This is new territory for his parents as well so, I'd talk to them.
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back to *pea*ality
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Aug 27, 2014 15:56:44 GMT
This is a tough one. Since Larry identifies as a boy and sexuality at 13 is a factor, I would have concerns.
OP I assume that your daughter remains committed to her friendship with Larry.
My son is in college and visit with his girlfriend and our rules are that they sleep in separate bedrooms. Maybe you could find some middle ground and allow sleepovers with certain ground rules.
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Aug 27, 2014 15:56:51 GMT
another thought- would you allow him to sleep over because a) he's already her friend and has done so, but also b) because he doesn't have equipment to be having sex? Girl equipment doesn't equal no interest in girls, if he's identifying with hetero males. Just like boy equipment doesn't equal interest in girls, in the case of gay males. Would you allow an openly gay boy to spend the night? If Larry likes girls, then the fact that he doesn't have the "right" equipment doesn't really lessen the risk of anything inappropriate happening.
Forgive me, there's probably a more elegant way to say all that but I can't think of it at the moment.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 27, 2014 16:22:36 GMT
another thought- would you allow him to sleep over because a) he's already her friend and has done so, but also b) because he doesn't have equipment to be having sex? Girl equipment doesn't equal no interest in girls, if he's identifying with hetero males. Just like boy equipment doesn't equal interest in girls, in the case of gay males. Would you allow an openly gay boy to spend the night? If Larry likes girls, then the fact that he doesn't have the "right" equipment doesn't really lessen the risk of anything inappropriate happening. Forgive me, there's probably a more elegant way to say all that but I can't think of it at the moment. I think you worded it fine.
I have issues with people who automatically think there's sexual interest in all gay men towards all men. Um, no. I'm female and hetero, but that doesn't mean I'm attracted to every male on the planet. The same goes for others whether gay or straight. I have plenty of male friends who are just that. Same can be said of any gender or sexual orientation.
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Post by Outspoken on Aug 27, 2014 16:26:47 GMT
If the rule is NO BOYS SLEEP OVER, then Larry can't sleep over. I would think Larry would be thankful that you are accepting him and treating as any other male. If Larry wants to be identified as a male, he can't pick and choose WHICH rules he wants to follow as a male and then which he wants to follow as a female. And I would offer to have a private conversation with him explaining how you love him as he is, but rules are rules.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 27, 2014 16:28:05 GMT
another thought- would you allow him to sleep over because a) he's already her friend and has done so, but also b) because he doesn't have equipment to be having sex? Girl equipment doesn't equal no interest in girls, if he's identifying with hetero males. Just like boy equipment doesn't equal interest in girls, in the case of gay males. Would you allow an openly gay boy to spend the night? If Larry likes girls, then the fact that he doesn't have the "right" equipment doesn't really lessen the risk of anything inappropriate happening. Forgive me, there's probably a more elegant way to say all that but I can't think of it at the moment. There's also no guarantee he's identifying as a hetero male, identifying as male does not equate to being sexually interested in girls.
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Deleted
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Oct 11, 2024 0:26:32 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 16:36:33 GMT
There are two issues. First is the issue of gender identity.. am I male or female. Larry has chosen to identify as female
The second is sexuality identity.. which is not the same as gender. As a male is Larry sexually interested in girls or boys? At 13 it is possible he doesn't really know yet or is so caught in self discovery as a male that thought is too far out yet.
Frankly, this was the age I started putting the brakes on ALL sleep overs. Just because it is an all girl sleep over doesn't stop there being some sexual experimentation.
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Aug 27, 2014 16:38:48 GMT
Ultimately I agree, no boys, no boys!
That said, I would have a conversation with my DD, and then possible a conversation with Larry's parents. Make a plan that everyone is agreeable to and you are OK with.
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Aug 27, 2014 16:45:59 GMT
another thought- would you allow him to sleep over because a) he's already her friend and has done so, but also b) because he doesn't have equipment to be having sex? Girl equipment doesn't equal no interest in girls, if he's identifying with hetero males. Just like boy equipment doesn't equal interest in girls, in the case of gay males. Would you allow an openly gay boy to spend the night? If Larry likes girls, then the fact that he doesn't have the "right" equipment doesn't really lessen the risk of anything inappropriate happening. Forgive me, there's probably a more elegant way to say all that but I can't think of it at the moment. There's also no guarantee he's identifying as a hetero male, identifying as male does not equate to being sexually interested in girls. of course it doesn't. that's what i was trying to express, that not having a certain genitalia doesn't necessarily coincide with his sexual orientation.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 27, 2014 17:57:53 GMT
I guess for me, I know that sexual experimentation can occur between girls during sleepovers too. So this is not a scenario that makes me go omg no. I don't immediately assume something about a child who is dealing with gender identity that I wouldn't assume about any other young person my daughter was friends with.
I think I would be more inclined to take the time to have the frank conversations about this stuff. What does it mean that Lisa is Larry now? What do you do if something is happening you don't feel comfortable with? How do you get your questions answered about sex and identity?
And I would probably let sleepovers continue with careful guidance and a bit of oversight. This is not one I can come up with a hard and fast rule for, because it's mostly uncharted territory for most of us. I would let their friendship progress fairly naturally and see how things go - but keep the conversation open.
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Post by kelbel827 on Aug 27, 2014 18:21:45 GMT
Never understood the whole no boys no girl sleepover thing. Gender and sexual identity are two different things.
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Post by kimpossible on Aug 27, 2014 18:34:14 GMT
I would feel it appropriate to ask the parents how they are choosing to help the child assimilate into his preferred gender and what their rules are. I think this is a great learning opportunity for everyone. I think this is the way to go. I bet they would appreciate you approaching them with no judgment, just to gather an understanding.
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Post by keknj on Aug 27, 2014 18:45:16 GMT
If the rule is NO BOYS SLEEP OVER, then Larry can't sleep over. I would think Larry would be thankful that you are accepting him and treating as any other male. If Larry wants to be identified as a male, he can't pick and choose WHICH rules he wants to follow as a male and then which he wants to follow as a female. And I would offer to have a private conversation with him explaining how you love him as he is, but rules are rules.
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Post by sisterbdsq on Aug 27, 2014 18:48:29 GMT
I would feel it appropriate to ask the parents how they are choosing to help the child assimilate into his preferred gender and what their rules are. I think this is a great learning opportunity for everyone. I think this is the way to go. I bet they would appreciate you approaching them with no judgment, just to gather an understanding. I just don't get why you wouldn't reach out to the parents as ASK! YOU may be ok with sleepovers, maybe they are NOT. He is THEIR child. Why do you think it's ok for YOU to make the rules and judgment. Maybe they wish to NOT have him sleep over. Then you say c'mon over...feelings get hurt and there's more issues to deal with. Take your cues from them. Reaching out to them will also let them know that you care for their child and are supportive of this journey. I'm sure they would welcome the support, right?
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anniebeth24
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Post by anniebeth24 on Aug 27, 2014 19:00:00 GMT
Glad you're thinking ahead. I was caught unprepared when my DD hosted a sleepover 16th b-day party for one of her girlfriends. I had told her that guys could come, but they needed to be gone by midnight. The only guy who came is openly gay. DD assumed that he could stay and it became a discussion at 1:00AM when I was half-asleep.
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Post by kandie on Aug 27, 2014 19:02:02 GMT
um just want to say wow, I was asking for input. Yours was sooo sweetly put. thank you for that.
said child did not just develop gender identity issues overnight said child was sleeping at our house at the time so I doubt the parent would have issues if they didnt then.
If it comes up that my dd wants to ask him to sleep over, then no shit, I will be calling the parent.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 27, 2014 19:05:00 GMT
I would permit it if there was no romantic feelings floating around. Though I'm not do sure how my DH would feel. He gets all authoritarian at the weirdest if times!
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