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Post by kimber731 on Aug 11, 2017 16:00:03 GMT
My husband and I have three grandchildren, two girls (ages 5 and 4) from our youngest daughter and one boy (age 3), from our oldest daughter. We all live close to each other and see each other frequently, usually at least once per week.
When we have any of the grandkids at our house without their parents, they are angels. I am stern with rules, but it is never a problem and the grandkids definately understand the boundaries and it has never been a problem. An example of rules is . . . any food has to be eaten at the table, they are not forced to eat something they don't like but they are expected to sit at the table during mealtimes until the adults are done, they don't jump on the furniture, any toys they take out they have to put away. Nothing extreme, just basic parenting. We don't have temper tantrums or meltdowns, bedtime is easy and we really enjoy this time with the grandkids. When it is bedtime at our house, we read a story and they go to bed, no problems, no tantrums, no getting up in the middle of the night to climb into our bed.
When the parents are around, it is a totally different story. Their parents don't believe in any rules whateover, either at our house or their own homes. The grandkids are really brats and it is difficult for my husband and I to watch things unfold. There is never a family gathering without screaming, meltdowns (by either the kids or parents), and general frustration all around. Just last night, I picked up my 3 year old grandson from daycare because his mom had to work late. He came in and started helping me cook dinner. I asked him to set the table and he was so excited to help. He did ask for a snack but I told him no because it would spoil his dinner. He said ok and went back to helping wash vegetables. When his mom arrived to pick him up, he immediately started pitching a fit, screaming and kicking her. Her response was to reach in the snack cabinet and just give him a cupcake. I told her I had already denied his request for a snack so he would eat a good dinner and her reply was "he won't eat dinner anyway" and this will keep him quiet. He finished the cupcake and then proceeded to throw yet another tantrum until she took him out to the car in full meltdown mode.
Both of my daughters have expressed to me that they are frustrated and overwhelmed because the kids never listen to them and it is a battle to get them to do anything. I have tried to explain that kids do well with boundaries and they have to be consistent and not just give into the kids because they are tired or crabby. It is to the point that I really only want to be around my grandkids if their parents aren't there because we truly have a good time, the kids are contantly engaged with us and have fun. If the parents are there, I literally count the minutes until they all leave and I feel so guilty.
Any suggestions or helpful hints besides continuing to bite my tongue.
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 11, 2017 16:04:14 GMT
Is there anyway possible for the parents to watch how the kids act with you without their parents around? Actually seeing how things can be done might be very effective.
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Post by not2peased on Aug 11, 2017 16:13:29 GMT
Is there anyway possible for the parents to watch how the kids act with you without their parents around? Actually seeing how things can be done might be very effective. agreed-a video might be a good way to show them. I would make it clear that I was coming at this from a place of love and caring, with an eye towards making their home life easier for everyone-& that you understand how much harder it is to parent every day. I would not want to make them feel defensive, or that you were criticizing them. |
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 11, 2017 16:19:44 GMT
I'm not a grandparent, so take this with a grain of salt.
I presume you used similar rules or tactics while raising your children. When your child, the parent , comments could you politely remind them what you did when they were kids?
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loco coco
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Post by loco coco on Aug 11, 2017 16:29:00 GMT
I have a 1 year old so Im not an expert but Ive read a lot of parenting articles, opinions, etc on how to raise good kids. A lot of them say kids are noticeably worse around their mothers and some say its because mom is their safe place.
Now, her reaching in to grab a cupcake to appease him could be a bad routine. Shes tired from work (I get it, I work full time and coming home to kids is a 2nd shift), he knows if he throws a fit he gets a treat. She needs to fix this and be consistent every day. They know what to expect at your house because you are consistent, and they grow to like and respect it
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Post by kimber731 on Aug 11, 2017 16:38:57 GMT
I can try the videotaped idea but I can tell you right now what the biggest difference is. When the kids are at our house, we are 100% engaged with them. If I need to prepare dinner, they are in the kitchen helping me. When dinner is done, they help to clear the table and help me wash dishes. Yes it may take an hour to wash dishes and yes, there may be a gallon of water on the floor but I truly believe that teaching them life skills is important. If I need to clean the bathroom, I give them a scrub brush and a bucket and they help with the tub. We rarely have the TV on and we play a lot of board games and read books. They kids don't act out at their daycare.
At their own homes, they have no chores, the TV is on and the parents are often engaged in their phones and not engaging with the kids. I understand they are with them 90% of the time and need to decompress from their busy lives too but I truly believe the kids act out for attention . . . and they get it. We have two vacations coming up where we are planning on taking the grandkids only, no parents allowed. The parents obviously aren't happy about not being invited but it has been explained that it is because the grandkids are good when they aren't around. It sounds harsh but it's reality. I feel like the bad parent and I know they feel I am constantly judging them and I am, but it is more because I feel bad that they aren't getting to enjoy their kids, but are constantly engaged in battle and I am sure they are exhausted, but not enough to want to do something about it. It makes me sad.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 11, 2017 16:42:09 GMT
At their own homes, they have no chores, the TV is on and the parents are often engaged Sometimes negative attention is better than none at all. That's why they are acting out at their own homes. The parents need to change their own behaviors |
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Aug 11, 2017 16:43:29 GMT
Keep biting your tongue. If you want to have decent relationships with your kids you need to stop judging. There's no way for you to help unless you are specifically asked. You said the girls complain they are frustrated, but you didn't say they are asking "what do I do?" Just keep doing what you do at your house, but don't tell them what to do.
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Post by kimber731 on Aug 11, 2017 16:59:08 GMT
I really appreciate all the good advice here. We will continue to sit back and bite our tongues, in preservation of the relationship with our adult children, but will probably have fewer family get togethers and will focus more on our quality time with the grandchildren.
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Post by femalebusiness on Aug 11, 2017 17:02:56 GMT
Is there anyway possible for the parents to watch how the kids act with you without their parents around? Actually seeing how things can be done might be very effective. I like this. Set up a camera to record how you handle them and how well behaved they are with you. |
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 11, 2017 17:15:05 GMT
Honestly, if the kids respond to boundaries and respect rules when they are given, the kids are probably fine.
I absolutely think it is a different thing to have a short intense period of time with kids versus dealing with the day-in-day-out of parenting. My kids are amazing, awesome, unbelievably angels when they are at school, with grandparents, at other people's homes, etc. People ask me all the time how they are so well-behaved. Well, guess what? At home, it's often a completely different story. If you asked me "how were your kids last night?" today I would tell you, the almost-two-year-old refused to go to bed, the three little boys battled me on putting away laundry, the eleven-year-old managed to be baffled by the project of taking out garbage and had attitude about being kicked off of the computer, and I went to bed exhausted. I'd also tell you that there was a point last night where I was trying to print out a presentation for work today from a computer that was being cranky and I let the kids park themselves in front of garbage cartoons because the alternative was that they would be in my hair. If you were my mother and I trusted you, I'd tell you all of that. If I sent them to your house, you'd never know they were capable of doing that at home.
I say all of that not because it isn't possible that your kids could improve their parenting -- and if they ask for help and advice, by all means provide it -- but because like someone suggested upthread, kids can be different when their parents are around, and the slog of parenting is different than seeing kids in small doses. I also will say, gently, that my experience is that people who aren't around kids all the time sometimes have a thinner skin with respect to kid misbehavior (and do not remember all that well what their kids were really like when they were small), so it's possible that the kids aren't as badly behaved when their parents are around as you experience them being. |
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 11, 2017 17:17:01 GMT
I can try the videotaped idea but I can tell you right now what the biggest difference is. When the kids are at our house, we are 100% engaged with them. If I need to prepare dinner, they are in the kitchen helping me. When dinner is done, they help to clear the table and help me wash dishes. Yes it may take an hour to wash dishes and yes, there may be a gallon of water on the floor but I truly believe that teaching them life skills is important. If I need to clean the bathroom, I give them a scrub brush and a bucket and they help with the tub. We rarely have the TV on and we play a lot of board games and read books. They kids don't act out at their daycare. At their own homes, they have no chores, the TV is on and the parents are often engaged in their phones and not engaging with the kids. I understand they are with them 90% of the time and need to decompress from their busy lives too but I truly believe the kids act out for attention . . . and they get it. We have two vacations coming up where we are planning on taking the grandkids only, no parents allowed. The parents obviously aren't happy about not being invited but it has been explained that it is because the grandkids are good when they aren't around. It sounds harsh but it's reality. I feel like the bad parent and I know they feel I am constantly judging them and I am, but it is more because I feel bad that they aren't getting to enjoy their kids, but are constantly engaged in battle and I am sure they are exhausted, but not enough to want to do something about it. It makes me sad. My kids were not engaged with me 100%. Thankfully we didn't have phones around then either, but they learned that no meant no and that they would do their chores. They were always better with the sitter than with us. My daycare lady (she had 6 kids of her own) told me that was entirely normal. But there were consequences for poor behaviors, tantrums or meltdowns did not mean they got their own way, and when one of us felt like we had had it, the other one stepped in for the tag team effort. We would actually walk away saying, "Mommy one- Toddle zero." It worked. |
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Post by Tammiem2pnc1 on Aug 11, 2017 17:17:32 GMT
I babysit a 3 year old who acts out exactly as you explained with her parents. She has rules here, very simple, but clear rules that have to be followed. I expect the same of my two boys. She eats at the table and keeps her drinks there. The drink is available to her whenever she wants it, but it stays on the table. She is to put toys away when she's done, wash her hands after going potty and when I ask her to do something, she does it. When her mother comes in she starts acting out, touching things she knows she know allowed to touch, jumping on the furniture and just not listening in general. Her mom is always asking me why she is so well behaved here. Well it's the same issue as you described with your grandkids. Her mom and dad don't enforce any rules at all. It's just simpler to give her what she is freaking out for. She wants a doughnut she gets a doughnut if she throws a big enough tantrum. They jump when she demands something, that doesn't happen here. She must ask nicely and I never jump up immediately. If her milk is empty and she needs more, I tell her I will get it for her in a moment. I will finish what I'm doing and then refill her milk, these teaches her patience. Even if I can do it immediately I still make her wait a minute first. I finally got frustrated enough with drop off and pick up times that I have given her a time out when she does something she knows she can't do, even with her mom here. She was warned, she knows the rules, the consequences still stand whether mom is here or not. It hasn't solved all the issues but it has helped. You need to let your kids know that you have rules in the house and the grandchilden know them. My mother in law had rules in her house that were different in our home, the kids were old enough to know the difference and were made to follow Grammy's rules. The same goes at their Granddads house. My kids aren't perfect, but they know enough to follow rules when at someone else's house whether we are there or not. I really hope you can find a solution because I can't imagine how hard it is for you!
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Post by bigbundt on Aug 11, 2017 17:24:57 GMT
Not a grandparent but one of my pet peeves is when my parents or ILs give us parenting advice because they are apparently experts on my kids after a couple of hours.  Never mind the fact that it is very common for kids to act better with others not their parents. There are days when my kids are HORRID to me and not their father and we generally parent the same way and we have the same rules. Why? I am their safe place, they let their emotional guards down and I sometimes have to deal with emotions that my children have not developed coping skills for. Same reason why my kids melt down the minute I walk into their grandparents' house, they've been waiting to release the flood gates once I got there. Has ZERO to do with any sort of inferior parenting on my part. Now the cupcake thing isn't the best choice but she has to deal with the consequences of that choice when they get home. You mentioned your opinion, now let it go. |
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River
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Post by River on Aug 11, 2017 17:29:09 GMT
My opinion only, continue as you are and try to be a little more understanding. Sometimes the hills we must die on are different at home (especially if there's more than one kid involved). Full time parenting combined with full time working really changes the dynamics. I remember the endless days of just trying to get by and sometimes that involved a cupcake before dinner.
My boys were always well behaved at others houses and with grand parents. They knew how to obey and follow the rules set by them. That told me that I was doing a decent job. They may not always act like that at home, but still retained manners elsewhere. That's a win in my book!
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 11, 2017 18:03:14 GMT
Isn't this true almost universally? My son was always better behaved around others. As soon as i showed up, total change in behavior. I think as we age we get a bit of selective memory about how well behaved our kids were.
Bite your tongue. If some of the rules you feel are non-negotiable, you can discuss with the parents when the kids aren't around and if they'll allow you to assert your rules. Being told by your mother you're a lousy parent NEVER goes over well. And if you think you're wording it delicately, you're really not. Everyone will be well aware of what (and who) you are criticizing.
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Post by holly on Aug 11, 2017 18:19:03 GMT
I say you just keep having the grands over without the parents. Give them a break. And keep your comments to yourself unless asked for advice. My kids are 16 and 19 and I still hear it from my mom about how they act differently when my DH and I are around, specifically me. I get tired of hearing it. Ik how they act. I have to live with it. If they behave well for others I always considered that a win. I'd rather that than they misbehave at other people's houses.
I hear it all the time about me DD. You let her stay out too late. She needs to keep her room cleaned more. Why doesn't she know how to cook? Blah blah blah. It's been bad the last few months because they have been living with her while we build our house. My DD is so done. My mom complains if she's in bed after 10am but then complains if she's out with friends too much. It's a no-win. She comments on what she's wearing and where she's going. And then calls me and wants to know why I let it happen?! "You're mom was way more strict with you" yes mom, you're right.
So enjoy your time with the kids and try to let it go and bite your tongue. thats what's grandparents houses are for!
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 11, 2017 18:21:06 GMT
I agree with the others. Mom is likely making mistakes out of exhaustion and maybe a little laziness here and there. But even if she was a perfect parent you would see some of this behavior.
Extend some grace to the parents. You can offer to watch the kids longer so moms can decompress before picking up the kids. You can also insist on certain rules being followed in your house, even while parents are there.
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kate
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Post by kate on Aug 11, 2017 18:41:50 GMT
Honestly, if the kids respond to boundaries and respect rules when they are given, the kids are probably fine.
I absolutely think it is a different thing to have a short intense period of time with kids versus dealing with the day-in-day-out of parenting. My kids are amazing, awesome, unbelievably angels when they are at school, with grandparents, at other people's homes, etc. People ask me all the time how they are so well-behaved. Well, guess what? At home, it's often a completely different story. That's pretty much my story. My mom is sometimes horrified at how my kids don't mind me right away, and they mind her wonderfully - but I will say that she never comes off as judgmental. Rather, she compliments me on how lovely my kids are when they come to visit. Honestly, a video would not help - I KNOW they are beautifully behaved at school and at other people's homes. For now, I will take comfort in the fact that I must be doing something right, and I'll keep fighting the good fight at home.  I will say that an hour of washing dishes ending with a gallon of water on the floor is fine once in awhile, but I could not do that every day after work. Makes me want to cry, just thinking about it! You're an awesome grandma for doing that stuff with the kids - maybe an easier way to keep biting your tongue would be to recognize that you're giving the kids some things that their parents just can't (for whatever reason). They really are lucky to have you. |
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Post by not2peased on Aug 11, 2017 18:51:44 GMT
upon further reflection, I think pretty much everyone knows what you are "supposed" to be doing as a parent, especially if you were parented well as a child.
that said, knowing the right thing to do doesn't always result in doing the right thing. People have reasons for doing or not doing something. In this case it's likely stress, fatigue, resentment about certain parental practices they were exposed to as children, and maybe some other things you don't know about
simply pointing out what someone is doing wrong, or what they should be doing rarely results in a change in behavior. It's like the "just eat a carrot stick" approach to dieting. everyone knows you need to eat less/healthier but in the real world, sometimes impulses are very hard to control. this is no different, IMO
that's why the stay out of it approach is likely best, unless they ask for help, they already know what they are doing isnt right.
it's also appropriate for you to set boundaries you can live with-just taking grandkids only on vacay is a way to limit your exposure and still see and have good experiences with your grandkids. I think it's a great idea
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Post by Really Red on Aug 11, 2017 19:23:45 GMT
I sadly agree with the others when they suggest stay out of it. If they ask you, maybe you could suggest a parenting book. I loved "Love and Logic," which is really easy to follow.
It stinks, doesn't it? I'm watching my neighbor do this to her 3yo right now. He comes over to my house with my DD who watches him and he is SUPER well behaved, but the stories she tells me and what I see, it's because she gives in to everything he wants/says/does.
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Post by 950nancy on Aug 11, 2017 19:48:54 GMT
I don't remember if this has been mentioned, but are the kids who are in school generally well-behaved in school? If they are, then they are just playing their parents. They know the norms of society but they aren't being reinforced. The parents have to decide they want to make a change.
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Grom Pea
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Post by Grom Pea on Aug 11, 2017 20:12:05 GMT
Also with the cupcake incident, maybe your daughter already feels pressure that your kids are not behaving web she's there since you've mentioned it and did the only thing she thought she could do to quiet him. I know my husband does not allow my kids to drink chocolate milk before food arrives but if I'm at a place where people are going to ask us to leave because they're unruly, I let them have a sip if I wasn't thinking enough when I ordered to ask it to come later. It probably seems horrible but I also don't want to be the person at the restaurant with two screaming kids, it happens because we end up going out on my extended family's schedule which often doesn't mesh with little kids, e.g. Going to late dinner at my bil's country club, I'm a guest so I can't enforce the time, but we're also expected to behave so it's difficult when there's family and outside pressure.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 11, 2017 20:28:17 GMT
It sounds like the kids have learned if you throw a tantrum they will get attention. Just wait until they are teenagers and can really get into trouble. We saw this with our neighbors and the kids were real trouble makers and the police were involved many times. The parents were divorced and really left the kids alone way too much - thinking 14-16 home alone constantly and so they went looking for trouble anything to get their parents to notice them. I know this is a completly different situation but just what could happen.
I think the video thing might be a good idea. It takes longer to teach them good behavior and it is very hard when you are exhausted but in the end it is so worth it. Kids need boundaries and rules. They do well if there are routines. Teaching them to help is wonderful little kids love to help and teaching them when they are young sets them up to help more when they are older. Just a little bit here and there. It also helps their self esteem.
Good luck I hate being around kids that act like this and I do see it and a lot of the time you can tell that the kids are just pushing the boundaries to see what they can get away with.
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peabay
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Post by peabay on Aug 11, 2017 20:38:07 GMT
I just want to tell a story about my mother in law (the memory was triggered by reading the other responses.) We would visit her house (she lived 3 hours away) and she had lots of little tchotchkes around her living and dining rooms. I asked if we could block off those rooms when we visited so the kids wouldn't go in there and possibly break something. Just a baby gate or whatever. She felt that kids should learn the meaning of no and that I was lazy; that I just wanted to sit around and have everything be easy and not teach my children what they can and can't touch. Honestly, I wanted to be able to visit with her without chasing the kids down and having the kids only memory at their grandmother's house be me saying "no, don't touch that" over and over and over again.
So, I'm sure the story she told her friends was that I was raising my kids to be hellions and rather than teach them right from wrong, I was just blocking off the temptations. My attitude was "don't you just want to see your grandkids in peace? I love you and want to actually visit with you, not wrestle Lladros out of toddler's hands all day."
I couldn't win - no matter what I felt judged like a shitty mother: either I spent the whole time saying "NO!" or I was lazy and spoiled.
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maurchclt
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Post by maurchclt on Aug 11, 2017 21:48:13 GMT
I'm not a grandparent, so take this with a grain of salt. I presume you used similar rules or tactics while raising your children. When your child, the parent , comments could you politely remind them what you did when they were kids? Ha, sorry. Raised two children. My daughter obviously understood the rules and is raising her two boys exactly the way she was raised, rules, manners, consequences for actions. Those boys are a pleasure to be around. And then there's my son...his two kids are allowed to do whatever they want, I have even seen them hit their parents, yell, scream etc. My son was brought up exactly the same as his sister, he is a responsible professional, but for whatever reason has chosen not to model the behavior he was taught.Very, very frustrating!! |
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craftykitten
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Post by craftykitten on Aug 11, 2017 22:05:40 GMT
...kicking her. Her response was to reach in the snack cabinet and just give him a cupcake. I told her I had already denied his request for a snack so he would eat a good dinner and her reply was "he won't eat dinner anyway" and this will keep him quiet. He finished the cupcake and then proceeded to throw yet another tantrum until she took him out to the car in full meltdown mode.
Both of my daughters have expressed to me that they are frustrated and overwhelmed because the kids never listen to them and it is a battle to get them to do anything. I have tried to explain that kids do well with boundaries and they have to be consistent and not just give into the kids because they are tired or crabby. It is to the point that I really only want to be around my grandkids if their parents aren't there because we truly have a good time, the kids are contantly engaged with us and have fun. If the parents are there, I literally count the minutes until they all leave and I feel so guilty.
Any suggestions or helpful hints besides continuing to bite my tongue.
Your daughters are struggling. They need help, not judgement, and not being shown videos of how their children are so perfect when they're with someone else because they probably already know that. Get someone else to look after the children and take your daughters out for a coffee/wine and *listen* to them and what they are struggling with. Maybe it's not just the children. Maybe it's work, or health, or any number of things that might be causing them stress, that is making parenting even harder for them right now. |
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Post by mom on Aug 11, 2017 23:01:14 GMT
...kicking her. Her response was to reach in the snack cabinet and just give him a cupcake. I told her I had already denied his request for a snack so he would eat a good dinner and her reply was "he won't eat dinner anyway" and this will keep him quiet. He finished the cupcake and then proceeded to throw yet another tantrum until she took him out to the car in full meltdown mode.
Both of my daughters have expressed to me that they are frustrated and overwhelmed because the kids never listen to them and it is a battle to get them to do anything. I have tried to explain that kids do well with boundaries and they have to be consistent and not just give into the kids because they are tired or crabby. It is to the point that I really only want to be around my grandkids if their parents aren't there because we truly have a good time, the kids are contantly engaged with us and have fun. If the parents are there, I literally count the minutes until they all leave and I feel so guilty.
Any suggestions or helpful hints besides continuing to bite my tongue.
and not being shown videos of how their children are so perfect when they're with someone else because they probably already know that. Get someone else to look after the children and take your daughters out for a coffee/wine and *listen* to them and what they are struggling with. Maybe it's not just the children. Maybe it's work, or health, or any number of things that might be causing them stress, that is making parenting even harder for them right now. I wish I could 'like' this post a million times. Your daughters are in the 'weeds' of raising kids. They are exhausted and gosh knows what else. Give them some grace and some time actually listening to them. Without kids around. I can guarantee you that if your daughters catch on to your judgements and criticism, you will lose time with your grandchildren. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 11, 2017 23:47:38 GMT
I'm not a grandparent, so take this with a grain of salt. I presume you used similar rules or tactics while raising your children. When your child, the parent , comments could you politely remind them what you did when they were kids? And then there's my son...his two kids are allowed to do whatever they want, I have even seen them hit their parents, yell, scream etc. My son was brought up exactly the same as his sister, he is a responsible professional, but for whatever reason has chosen not to model the behavior he was taught.Very, very frustrating!! This is us, too. I was raised by older parents who were strict but fair. I watched many of my older siblings let their kids run wild and saw the consequences of that. When our kid came along years later, DH and I decided we'd raise her with rules, manners and boundaries similar to how we were both raised. It definitely has made a difference. |
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on Aug 12, 2017 0:31:55 GMT
It sounds like you're a great grandparent! Your grandchildren likely cherish & will never forget their time with you. Hope you all have a safe & fun vacation...
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Never mind the fact that it is very common for kids to act better with others not their parents. There are days when my kids are HORRID to me and not their father and we generally parent the same way and we have the same rules. Why? I am their safe place, they let their emotional guards down and I sometimes have to deal with emotions that my children have not developed coping skills for. Same reason why my kids melt down the minute I walk into their grandparents' house, they've been waiting to release the flood gates once I got there. Has ZERO to do with any sort of inferior parenting on my part.
