Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Aug 30, 2017 11:05:09 GMT
...in having removed. www.salon.com/2017/08/28/statues-of-medical-racist-who-experimented-on-slaves-should-also-be-taken-down_partner/There are two other statues of Sims on state owned property. "The evidence of Sims’ medical malpractice is apparent from the extensive published case notes of the procedures he performed and from his autobiography, The Story of My Life. In his autobiography, Sims revealed that the most “memorable era” of his life was between 1844 and 1849, during which he recollected that “there was never a time that I could not, at any day, have had a subject for operation”. In same years, he doubled the size of his private hospital for enslaved patients, “ransacking country around” Montgomery for incurable cases of vesico-vaginal fistula (an abnormal tract between the bladder and vagina). Enslaved women were particularly prone to this side effect of childbirth, due to the coercive “breeding” practices of slave-owners and widespread sexual exploitation. For Sims’ fistula patients, the memory of these years would have been unbearable, as they were subject to repeated surgery, without anaesthesia."
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 30, 2017 11:36:52 GMT
I lived in Columbia and worked near the state house; I remember a lot of the statues (and the confederate battle flag that has since come down), but not this one. The history is really appalling.
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Post by elaine on Aug 30, 2017 11:42:36 GMT
What an awful human being! Yes, statues of him should be removed from public property.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Aug 30, 2017 12:10:44 GMT
My gynecologist has posted about this on Facebook engendering quite a conversation about it. Apparently Sims used no anesthesia because he declared black women didn't feel pain like white women.
It's appalling how people treat one another.
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Post by Zee on Aug 30, 2017 13:14:35 GMT
You know what really makes me FURIOUS is how those women were brutalized repeatedly throughout their entire lives, causing not only the physical damage to their bodies but then again being experimented on in a completely unethical and inhumane fashion.
I would love to see his statue put in a medical museum with a display on medical ethics, and a statue honoring the victims in its place. All women owe them a debt of thanks for their contribution to the field of gynecologic surgery, though thinking about how they contributed makes me so angry.
Repeated rape of women causing these types of injuries still occurs on this earth. I saw a documentary about doctors and nurses who donate their time and skills to help surgically repair the damage they have endured. Those people are a bright spot in this sometimes awful world.
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craftykitten
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Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Aug 30, 2017 13:44:26 GMT
Oh good Lord, that's horrific. Those poor women
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 0:06:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 13:56:01 GMT
I find it unbelievable that there are statues of him in the first place. Yes, he might have made a breakthrough in this particular field but at what cost? Even at the time of his death in 1883 it was common knowledge in the medical field of his experimentation and many, even then, disapproved of his ways so erecting statues for such a despicable character is beyond my understanding. I hadn't heard of him until this thread Olan so I went looking for more info on him. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. This article written in 1993 if more informative of his sickening ways. LINK
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imsirius
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Jul 12, 2014 19:59:28 GMT
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Post by imsirius on Aug 30, 2017 14:07:28 GMT
Why would the memorialize this monster in the first place? Sickening. Those poor women.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 30, 2017 14:28:57 GMT
My gynecologist has posted about this on Facebook engendering quite a conversation about it. Apparently Sims used no anesthesia because he declared black women didn't feel pain like white women. It's appalling how people treat one another. His use of slaves to experiment on is unquestionably unethical. The anesthesia question though is a lot more complicated. He started his experiments before the use was known (his first surgeries preceding the demonstration in Boston by a full year). He also conducted the surgery on white women without anesthesia despite some reporting to the contrary: The NCBI's research on the medical ethics of Sims is pretty interesting: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2563360/
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Post by mikklynn on Aug 30, 2017 15:07:04 GMT
I can't believe there were statues to begin with. Disgusting.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 30, 2017 15:07:17 GMT
That is horrible.
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Montannie
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Jun 25, 2014 20:32:35 GMT
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Post by Montannie on Aug 30, 2017 15:11:52 GMT
The American Dr. Mengele. Appalling to memorialize him.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Aug 30, 2017 16:15:27 GMT
Thank you Darcy Collins for providing more complete information. I should have done my own additional research before passing along inflammatory information.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 30, 2017 16:41:04 GMT
The American Dr. Mengele. Appalling to memorialize him. I wish we could criticize and even condemn misdeeds without creating false equivalencies. Mengele performed horrific experimentations including the unnecessary amputation of limbs and GIVING healthy people typhus and other diseases. By no account did Sims give any slave fistula. I have no trouble condemning his actions - a woman was subjected to 30 surgeries as he tried to figure out how to repair her fistula - a woman who as she was enslaved was not able to give consent. It was wrong. His use of slaves was wrong. But he was no Mengele a monster who took 732 pairs of twins- almost all children and subjected them to torture and unnecessary death.
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Montannie
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Jun 25, 2014 20:32:35 GMT
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Post by Montannie on Aug 30, 2017 17:22:46 GMT
None of Mengele's victims consented to their treatment, either. They both experimented on human beings.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 30, 2017 17:50:00 GMT
None of Mengele's victims consented to their treatment, either. They both experimented on human beings. There's a damn big difference between conducting an experimental treatment for an injury or disease and GIVING a healthy person one - or at least in my world.
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flute4peace
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Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Aug 30, 2017 17:59:52 GMT
That's just .... I can't even find words. I love the idea of replacing the statues with a memorial honoring those poor women.
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caangel
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Jun 26, 2014 16:42:12 GMT
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Post by caangel on Aug 30, 2017 19:32:51 GMT
The Things You Missed in History Class Podcast did an episode on him. They discuss his appalling work on slaves. He also made a lot of advances in gynecology (hence the statue). Not that that should out weigh his treatment of black women but it is always good to understand the big picture. It was an interesting listen. I would also like to see the statue moved to a museum.
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on Aug 30, 2017 23:21:31 GMT
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 30, 2017 23:24:35 GMT
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Aug 30, 2017 23:43:26 GMT
This is an informative article that shows how those falsehoods continue to be perpetuated. That's eye-opening. Thank you for sharing it.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 31, 2017 9:31:04 GMT
This is an informative article that shows how those falsehoods continue to be perpetuated. That's eye-opening. Thank you for sharing it. No problem! Have a good day!
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Aug 31, 2017 10:15:47 GMT
Interesting fact from the second article, also illustrates how generational wealth works.
Sims Wyeth, a descendant of the controversial doctor, doesn’t object to Collier’s plan. His opinion of his ancestor has dimmed over time as well. “I was brainwashed to think that my great-great-grandfather was a hero, the savior of the world, or, at least, the savior of women,” said Wyeth, 65, who lives in Montclair, New Jersey. He doesn't see it that way now. His wife is black and their child, a biracial performance artist, has struggled to reconcile the family’s legacy, he said. Wyeth’s grandfather was a famous Florida architect named Marion Sims Wyeth, who notably designed Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago, among other mega-mansions. Marion Sims Wyeth, who died in 1982, was J. Marion Sims’ grandson. Sims Wyeth acknowledged his great-great-grandfather lived during a time when “slavery was, you know, the law of the land,” but he “wasn’t a moral genius.” And Wyeth understands why the activists in East Harlem feel so strongly about the statue. “If it’s painful to them," Wyeth said, "it doesn’t need to be on Fifth Avenue in New York City."
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Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 31, 2017 14:09:44 GMT
I don't know if L.L. Wall is a sympathizer or not - I thought he was incredibly cavalier with his contention that the women would have consented as they had fistula - how the hell does he know whether Lucy in particular would have consented to 30 operations without anesthesia. He was however correct about Sims beginning his operations before anesthesia use was widespread and he wasn't aware of it - which is what I was discussing. The article you linked to also confirmed: Isn't it heartbreaking to imagine an estimated 2 million women are still suffering with fistula in Asia and Africa TODAY? A friend of mine is very active in an organization trying to help eradicate it- partly through repairs, but also through trying to improve obstetric care to prevent in the first place.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 9:26:26 GMT
Removed Tuesday"I feel that my ancestors can rest," she told the newspaper." "Each day I walked past that statue and I saw him up there, I felt personally disrespected. ... It's a historical moment for me, and it's an emotional moment. I just feel the right thing is being done."
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Oct 23, 2019 0:44:59 GMT
For posterity when someone undoubtedly complains about the bumping threads Whatever floats your boat.... Also: really cool statue in Times Square until December I believe. Kehinde Wiley is genius
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