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Post by melanell on Sept 1, 2017 20:57:07 GMT
Did you see this? Gun pulled in Back to School section of WalmartApparently a woman, 20, went to grab the last notebook around the same time that 2 other women were trying to grab it. I do not know who was going for it first. But the result was that eventually the 2 women pulled the hair of the 20 year old and eventually pushed her to the ground. So the mother of the 20 year old pulled out her gun (She was licensed to carry it.) and told the 2 women to stop attacking her daughter. The gun was loaded but there was no round in the chamber. I think this line sums up my feelings on the entire thing: "He (Det. Sgt. Scott Baetens of the local police) described the incident as a “senseless act of violence all the way around.”" I get being scared or angry that someone is attacking your kid, but I can't picture myself pulling out a loaded weapon in a relatively busy store (I did not watch any videos, but the still shots show several people around, including a small child in a cart.) unless I really felt that I had tried to stop what was happening in any other way first. I mean, I would have yelled for help, screamed at them to stop, etc. first. And maybe she did. Maybe she really felt like her daughter was in real danger and this was all she could do to stop it. But the article doesn't mention it if that happened. It sounds to me that the gun was her first choice of ways to handle the situation. I just don't get the idea from the article that the other two women were actually putting the 20 year old's life in danger, so I feel there was time for other options. But on the flip side, no matter how rude or pushy the 20 year old possibly was, why do we need to put our hands on other people over a notebook, for goodness sake? Given this, I still don't think (based on the article, anyway) that their current behavior warranted having a gun pulled on them. The whole situation makes me sad. I feel particularly sad for the other shoppers in that area of the store who wound up probably terrified while simply trying to buy some pens & pencils. |
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Sept 1, 2017 21:00:24 GMT
That's frightening all around.
One, I would never get in a physical confrontation over a notebook.
Two, the rule with firearms is that you don't pull it unless you are ready to end the other person's life.
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by marimoose on Sept 1, 2017 21:00:28 GMT
I saw this earlier. How scary and so STUPID. Why would pulling a gun out even be considered a solution nor why would pulling someone's hair or knocking them down over be considered a viable option. What a freaking scary world we live in.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 1, 2017 21:04:13 GMT
From your title I shared your belief. Until I read the scenario. What, exactly, would be gained from calling for help? How would that have made a difference? Wait for a full minute or two while your daughter is being attacked, in the hopes that someone will respond? Like whom? A security guard? That would take longer than a minute. A fellow shopper? And then what when either show up? What are they going to do?
Seems to me like Mom did the perfect thing. She let the attackers know that she was prepared to use severe force to protect her daughter from harm. She gave the attackers an opportunity to stop what they were doing before they faced physical harm themselves. If a fellow shopper had come over, what would he/she have done? The only way they could have stopped the attack was to place their hands on the attackers and physical remove them. This way no one else was touched.
Sounds like a perfect explanation as to why people DO carry guns with them. So assholes like the attackers can't get away with continued assaults. So victims do not lie on the ground being attacked while others screamed for the attack to stop or yell for help.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 1, 2017 21:05:26 GMT
That's frightening all around. One, I would never get in a physical confrontation over a notebook. Two, the rule with firearms is that you don't pull it unless you are ready to end the other person's life. No, that isn't the rule. The rule is you don't pull it unless you are PREPARED to end the other person's life. I am sure this mother would have had no problem protecting her daughter to that end, had the attack escalated. |
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Post by busy on Sept 1, 2017 21:08:27 GMT
It's ridiculously fucking irresponsible.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Sept 1, 2017 21:10:00 GMT
That's frightening all around. One, I would never get in a physical confrontation over a notebook. Two, the rule with firearms is that you don't pull it unless you are ready to end the other person's life. No, that isn't the rule. The rule is you don't pull it unless you are PREPARED to end the other person's life. I am sure this mother would have had no problem protecting her daughter to that end, had the attack escalated. When I wrote "ready" I meant it to mean mentally prepared. I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. |
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on Sept 1, 2017 21:19:38 GMT
Hm. On the one hand, A fight over a $10 (probably) notebook escalating to a gun draw is beyond trashy and irresponsible. NO notebook is worth it. Seriously.
On the other hand...I would absolutely draw on someone who was violently threatening my child or me. Shut that shit down real quick if you can. There is a time and place for drawing a weapon, this may or may not have been one of those times/places, and to be clear, I don't think it was.
Personally, I would never fight over something so ridiculous and even if I had cause I would seriously hesitate to draw in the middle of store where any misfire could injure an innocent bystander.
Carrying comes with massive responsibility and you must use extreme caution and have true understanding of the consequences of drawing/firing. Drawing should absolutely be the very last resort because you couldn't resolve/get away from the situation any other way, and even then you hesitate and try to de-escalate again. It should never come to actually drawing and if it does, you likely screwed up somehow in the process because MOST confrontations (like 99.99%) can be resolved peacefully if just one party backs down.
I hope they throw the book at all parties involved. Idiots.
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 1, 2017 21:29:43 GMT
Last vial of lifesaving medicine for my favorite child... perhaps worth a hair pull. Last notebook? Oy!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 10:10:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 22:12:23 GMT
Believe me there are times I wish I had a giant mallet, when shopping. I can really understand how tempers flare up and get out of hand, especially with how rude and entitled people act today. What I don't understand is how people actually let it come to the surface.
So instead of a giant mallet. I imitate my female duck when she is irritated at Duck. She makes a weird a sound. You can tell she is pissed.
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Post by peano on Sept 1, 2017 22:37:17 GMT
From your title I shared your belief. Until I read the scenario. What, exactly, would be gained from calling for help? How would that have made a difference? Wait for a full minute or two while your daughter is being attacked, in the hopes that someone will respond? Like whom? A security guard? That would take longer than a minute. A fellow shopper? And then what when either show up? What are they going to do? Seems to me like Mom did the perfect thing. She let the attackers know that she was prepared to use severe force to protect her daughter from harm. She gave the attackers an opportunity to stop what they were doing before they faced physical harm themselves. If a fellow shopper had come over, what would he/she have done? The only way they could have stopped the attack was to place their hands on the attackers and physical remove them. This way no one else was touched. Sounds like a perfect explanation as to why people DO carry guns with them. So assholes like the attackers can't get away with continued assaults. So victims do not lie on the ground being attacked while others screamed for the attack to stop or yell for help. Oy fucking vey. We live on different planets... Only pussies walk away from conflict. Amirite? |
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,622
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Post by basketdiva on Sept 1, 2017 22:43:26 GMT
It's a notebook- is it worth jail or injury?
Just curious melanell did you mean to label this "politics" and if so, why?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 2, 2024 10:10:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2017 22:50:31 GMT
I saw this earlier. How scary and so STUPID. Why would pulling a gun out even be considered a solution nor why would pulling someone's hair or knocking them down over be considered a viable option. What a freaking scary world we live in. Because Americans seem to be getting more dysfunctional by the day. Too many seem to have lost any semblance of maturity and rationality. Perhaps it's always being on edge about finances (since we have 10% of us owning 80% of the country's wealth). Perhaps it's meds. Perhaps it's crap in our food and water. But we seem to have come a long way from the intelligent, thoughtful people we were once considered to be. I don't see any end in sight w/this president, w/this philosophy of profits first, make the rich richer and people's needs and mental health, constantly under attack. |
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Post by janskylar on Sept 1, 2017 22:55:32 GMT
Geez. I'm definitely not leaving the house on Black Friday.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 2, 2017 0:08:33 GMT
From your title I shared your belief. Until I read the scenario. What, exactly, would be gained from calling for help? How would that have made a difference? Wait for a full minute or two while your daughter is being attacked, in the hopes that someone will respond? Like whom? A security guard? That would take longer than a minute. A fellow shopper? And then what when either show up? What are they going to do? Seems to me like Mom did the perfect thing. She let the attackers know that she was prepared to use severe force to protect her daughter from harm. She gave the attackers an opportunity to stop what they were doing before they faced physical harm themselves. If a fellow shopper had come over, what would he/she have done? The only way they could have stopped the attack was to place their hands on the attackers and physical remove them. This way no one else was touched. Sounds like a perfect explanation as to why people DO carry guns with them. So assholes like the attackers can't get away with continued assaults. So victims do not lie on the ground being attacked while others screamed for the attack to stop or yell for help. Oy fucking vey. We live on different planets... Only pussies walk away from conflict. Amirite? Only shitty mothers allow people to continue attacking their daughters. And only assholes think that's ok. Amirite? |
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Post by melanell on Sept 2, 2017 0:43:18 GMT
Personally, I would never fight over something so ridiculous and even if I had cause I would seriously hesitate to draw in the middle of store where any misfire could injure an innocent bystander. This (the part I bolded) is the part that made me feel so badly for everyone around that was not involved. I have no way of knowing if the mom was thinking of the other people who may wind up in harm's way if they started panicking over the situation. |
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Post by mom on Sept 2, 2017 0:46:51 GMT
It's ridiculously fucking irresponsible. You took the words right out of my mouth. |
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Post by melanell on Sept 2, 2017 0:47:53 GMT
It's a notebook- is it worth jail or injury? Just curious melanell did you mean to label this "politics" and if so, why? I did. Because I figured there was a decent chance this would become a conversation/argument about gun control, even if that wasn't my personal intent. Save |
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Post by bigbundt on Sept 2, 2017 0:57:04 GMT
I watched the video and the mom pulled the gun only after one of the women swatted her arm away when she was physically trying to get them to stop doing whatever they were doing to her daughter, who was on the ground. Stupid move but her other interventions to get them to leave her daughter alone wasn't working so she pulled out the big gun (literally). Not condoning it in any way but she must have had some serious adrenaline pumping at that point.
However EVERYONE was a complete idiot in this situation. Over a notebook? Pulling a gun was way too much but so was fighting someone else and pulling someone's hair. Just let it go, man...
ETA: And the video I saw was very brief at the end so no clue how things transpired with the fighting or how the daughter ended up on the floor.
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Post by melanell on Sept 2, 2017 0:58:42 GMT
I hope they throw the book at all parties involved. Idiots. The article said "All four women face potential charges, ranging from simple assault to felonious assault with a firearm." And while that doesn't mean there will be punishments for anyone, it does make me wonder about the 20 year old and her behavior in all of this. The article doesn't say anything else to indicate that she may have done anything wrong. And maybe this line is just a nice generalized end to the story. But if she did do something to warrant potential charges, I can't help but wonder what it was and when it happened. I don't know. The situation just strikes me as so sad all around. And I do admit to being a bit curious as to the 20 year old's part in it. No matter what she did or didn't do, however, the situation certainly got out of hand.  Save |
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Post by bigbundt on Sept 2, 2017 1:03:27 GMT
People make fun of me for shopping for school supplies as soon as they are put out in early July but I've never felt the need to take anyone to the ground or pull a gun over a notebook.  |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 2, 2017 1:19:40 GMT
Was the daughter the one that came and took the notebook when the other two were already fighting over it? How about just leave the notebook instead of engaging? Sounds like all of them are idiots and none should be carrying a gun. I can't believe that people would be I support of pulling a gun in this situation.
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Post by melanell on Sept 2, 2017 1:23:33 GMT
Was the daughter the one that came and took the notebook when the other two were already fighting over it? I took it to mean that one of the two women wanted the notebook and the 20 year old wanted the notebook and it went from there. I didn't take it to mean that the 2 other women (I can't recall their ages---34 & 40 something?) were ever fighting with one another. Then again, I don't really feel like I have a good grasp on what all actually happened, so who knows. All I know is that it all started with a notebook, and no matter who did what, that's ridiculous to me. Save |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 2, 2017 1:23:35 GMT
I watched the video and the mom pulled the gun only after one of the women swatted her arm away when she was physically trying to get them to stop doing whatever they were doing to her daughter, who was on the ground. Stupid move but her other interventions to get them to leave her daughter alone wasn't working so she pulled out the big gun (literally). Not condoning it in any way but she must have had some serious adrenaline pumping at that point. However EVERYONE was a complete idiot in this situation. Over a notebook? Pulling a gun was way too much but so was fighting someone else and pulling someone's hair. Just let it go, man... ETA: And the video I saw was very brief at the end so no clue how things transpired with the fighting or how the daughter ended up on the floor. IMO this is an example of why carrying should be illegal. Yes, people have adrenaline pumping in situations like this. And clearly it is easy to pull your gun when you might not be thinking clearly. Unfortunately, this could have ended very badly. |
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 2, 2017 1:26:14 GMT
I wasn't there so I can't be positive...but I want to put it out there... nobody pulled a gun because of a notebook. Someone pulled a gun because her child was being assaulted. You don't just walk away when your kid is being hurt.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 2, 2017 1:31:28 GMT
I wasn't there so I can't be positive...but I want to put it out there... nobody pulled a gun because of a notebook. Someone pulled a gun because her child was being assaulted. You don't just walk away when your kid is being hurt. But she was also fighting over the notebook. That is why people commented about walking away from the conflict. If it is clear that there is one notebook and three want it, it makes sense to just leave it unless you want a conflict. |
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 2, 2017 1:32:40 GMT
I watched the video and the mom pulled the gun only after one of the women swatted her arm away when she was physically trying to get them to stop doing whatever they were doing to her daughter, who was on the ground. Stupid move but her other interventions to get them to leave her daughter alone wasn't working so she pulled out the big gun (literally). Not condoning it in any way but she must have had some serious adrenaline pumping at that point. However EVERYONE was a complete idiot in this situation. Over a notebook? Pulling a gun was way too much but so was fighting someone else and pulling someone's hair. Just let it go, man... ETA: And the video I saw was very brief at the end so no clue how things transpired with the fighting or how the daughter ended up on the floor. IMO this is an example of why carrying should be illegal. Yes, people have adrenaline pumping in situations like this. And clearly it is easy to pull your gun when you might not be thinking clearly. Unfortunately, this could have ended very badly. I don't understand this. I really don't. From what I can tell the gun prevented injury. No one got seriously hurt because the gun stopped the nonsense. We can postulate all day about what could have happened because of the gun. What we KNOW, however, is that one woman was being assaulted by two others and that the assault stopped when a gun was drawn. It is much more likely that an injury would have occurred if the gun had not been drawn, than if/when it had/did. |
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
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Post by AnotherPea on Sept 2, 2017 1:34:43 GMT
I wasn't there so I can't be positive...but I want to put it out there... nobody pulled a gun because of a notebook. Someone pulled a gun because her child was being assaulted. You don't just walk away when your kid is being hurt. But she was also fighting over the notebook. That is why people commented about walking away from the conflict. If it is clear that there is one notebook and three want it, it makes sense to just leave it unless you want a conflict. Agreed. Let the jerks get their way and move on. But that's not why the gun came into the equation. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 2, 2017 1:38:23 GMT
IMO this is an example of why carrying should be illegal. Yes, people have adrenaline pumping in situations like this. And clearly it is easy to pull your gun when you might not be thinking clearly. Unfortunately, this could have ended very badly. I don't understand this. I really don't. From what I can tell the gun prevented injury. No one got seriously hurt because the gun stopped the nonsense. We can postulate all day about what could have happened because of the gun. What we KNOW, however, is that one woman was being assaulted by two others and that the assault stopped when a gun was drawn. It is much more likely that an injury would have occurred if the gun had not been drawn, than if/when it had/did. I personally don't think anyone should be carrying a gun in a store. I think they make people less safe, not more. If someone is going to pull a gun and be prepared to use it, the situation better be serious. I don't think a notebook or someone pulling hair is serious enough to threaten someone's life. The mother could have screamed or knocked something over and most likely that would have also shocked the others and ended the situation. The fact that they are willing to get into a conflict over a notebook that probably cost less than a dollar indicates to me that them having a gun is not in the best interest of the public. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 2, 2017 1:40:52 GMT
But she was also fighting over the notebook. That is why people commented about walking away from the conflict. If it is clear that there is one notebook and three want it, it makes sense to just leave it unless you want a conflict. Agreed. Let the jerks get their way and move on. But that's not why the gun came into the equation. It sounds to me like the 20 year old was not completely innocent in this. But more details would be good. |
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