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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 27, 2017 16:47:18 GMT
When I was a student at the University of Chicago, I waited tables at a local restaurant. Every once in a while Louis Farrakhan would come in to eat in my restaurant. He always insisted on a black server. Once he did sit in my section and he refused my service.
In 2009, my ex DH and I had both lost our jobs. We moved to Indianapolis for work. We lived in the middle of the city. All of our neighbors were lovely people. I had great experiences with them. But my son, who was a 2nd grader at the time was beaten up several times at school. On his very first day, a couple of 5th graders got him on his way off the bus and told him he wasn't welcome there. That Indianapolis Public Schools are for black kids, not white kids. It seems like while the community is very mixed, the white kids generally go to private schools and the public schools are mostly black. The vast majority of people we met there were wonderful. But these kids tortured my son for a year. Then we moved to the suburbs.
I cannot imagine living these experiences as often as minorities do. It gave me a little taste of what it must be like. I think my experiences really shaped my thinking and that of my kids. I know from black friends that if you asked them to list when they were discriminated against, they could come up with much more than two occasions like I have. I know it because I've heard it from them.
I am glad that now my neighborhood and my schools are very mixed races, ethnicities, and socio-economic classes. I really feel like my community feels like a community where differences are respected and appreciated. And kids freely mingle with people of other races. I wish everywhere could be more like my neighborhood and school.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by tracylynn on Oct 27, 2017 16:51:12 GMT
Yes! I lived in Pine Hills in Orlando. It is a very BAD section of town. Primarily black people lived there when I lived there. One evening my dad was driving on the road in back of our house. There was a group of kids lined up across the road and wouldn't let him drive by. He got out of the van and yelled "get your asses out of the road". Next thing you know a kid runs over and throws a swing at him. He ducks and another kid hits him in the face with a brick. He falls to the ground and they try to rob him but he had left his wallet at home so they beat him while he laid on the ground. He was dying on the ground and they continued to beat him until someone walked out of their house. My brother happened to be in the van hiding but seeing everything that happened. He was 12years old at the time. When the kids ran off my brother ran home and called the police. Nobody called the police or even tried to help my dad while he laid in the road. Nobody. When he was in the hospital they prepped us that he was not going to make it through the night. His face was bashed in. He ended up with 5 metal plates in his face and over 500 stitches. His body was black and blue where he had been beaten. He spent 6 weeks in the hospital. When released he still needed more surgeries to make him look normal. The kids who did this went to the same middle school I went to at the time. They would say things like "How do you like what we did to your father" & follow me home to see where I lived. I seriously lived in fear. I would go to the school resource officer (Daily!) and he would say he's looking into things. yada yada yada. The kids were caught and we ended up going to court and the police lied so bad. The school resource office whom I saw daily said I never went to him with any problems. The police tried to push everything under the rug. They said the kids were scared of my dad since he swore at them & that's why they went after him. They were found guilty and nothing happened to them. NOTHING. They were suppose to pay restitution...Never saw it! My dad was the sole breadwinner in the family & was in the hospital 6 weeks. It took a major toll on my family financially. We found out most of friends were not our friends. They were too afraid we would ask for money. My mom moved us out of the area while my dad was still in the hospital. We were all fearful of the kids following me. I feel like the police discriminated against us because we were white in a predominately black area. I feel like they took sides. I'm not sure I see that as racism because you were white - but CORRUPTION and FEAR at EVERY LEVEL. It's awful and horrible what happened to your family. |
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Post by Prenticekid on Oct 27, 2017 16:52:10 GMT
I don't even think white discrimination is a thing. Being treated poorly does not rise to the level of discrimination, in my opinion. Being offended is not being discriminated against. Someone treating you awkwardly because you were in a black establishment - not discrimination. Talk to me when you are outright refused service or made to drink from a different water fountain. Straight guys in a lesbian bar are going to get some odd looks or behavior too, but do you call that discrimination? My bet is on no. Moreover, I think that even using the term white discrimination shows a severe lack of comprehension and understanding of racial discrimination, and, with some people, just a complete indifference to the real discrimination that non-whites are subjected to. Besides, systemically, non-whites (and women) are not (permitted to be) powerful enough to even assert the level of conduct to be called discrimination.
FWIW, IRL, I have yet to hear a non-racist use the term white discrimination. And, they are usually just still being mad that there is a holiday for Martin Luther King, that a black guy got the job that they wanted, or that white cops are getting called out for shooting black men and boys. So, I really think that we should be careful about normalizing the idea of white discrimination.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 19:28:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 17:33:53 GMT
My brother was told that he didn't get a job because he was white. It was working for a airport in maintenance.
There was a waitress at our local Sherri's, ( many years ago) Who wouldn't wait on white families. People would just walk out if they were sorted in her section.
Other than that. No.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,398
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 27, 2017 17:43:08 GMT
I said never. I have had situations where I was made to feel unwelcome because I was white - like one time in high school, I was chatting with a friend after class and we were continuing the conversation into lunch. I sat down with her, and was told by others at the table that I wasn't "supposed" to sit there because it was the "black" table. Everyone else there (including my friend) was black. We blew them off and continued the conversation. Why can I not call that discrimination? Because I had the privilege to ignore them.
Have I had plenty of times where I was the only white person somewhere, and it was awkward? Yes, several. But social awkwardness doesn't remotely equal discrimination.
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J u l e e
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,531
Location: Cincinnati
Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Oct 27, 2017 18:10:09 GMT
Not one single time that I can remember.
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Post by peano on Oct 27, 2017 18:17:56 GMT
Nope.
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MaryMary
Pearl Clutcher
Lazy
Posts: 2,975
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Post by MaryMary on Oct 27, 2017 18:22:23 GMT
Never.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
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Post by azredhead on Oct 27, 2017 18:23:34 GMT
yes but not in those instances listed in the poll, Not pleasant no matter the treatment when it's bad. And Dh yes due to a job because he was Male.
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Post by pierogi on Oct 27, 2017 18:28:16 GMT
Not one single time that I can remember. Me neither. And I grew up in Washington DC. |
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inkedup
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,837
Jun 26, 2014 5:00:26 GMT
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Post by inkedup on Oct 27, 2017 18:31:47 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. Ah, that didnt take long. There's always one person with improbable scenarios (full rides for flunking minorities while top tier white students languish). Other people are trying to have an actual, thoughtful discussion and you weigh in with why Miss Bennett's story isn't about race and with your sad (hard to believe) story about how you "couldn't get a scholarship to save (your) soul." |
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Oct 27, 2017 18:32:11 GMT
I don't even think white discrimination is a thing. Being treated poorly does not rise to the level of discrimination, in my opinion. Being offended is not being discriminated against. Someone treating you awkwardly because you were in a black establishment - not discrimination. Talk to me when you are outright refused service or made to drink from a different water fountain. Straight guys in a lesbian bar are going to get some odd looks or behavior too, but do you call that discrimination? My bet is on no. Moreover, I think that even using the term white discrimination shows a severe lack of comprehension and understanding of racial discrimination, and, with some people, just a complete indifference to the real discrimination that non-whites are subjected to. Besides, systemically, non-whites (and women) are not (permitted to be) powerful enough to even assert the level of conduct to be called discrimination. FWIW, IRL, I have yet to hear a non-racist use the term white discrimination. And, they are usually just still being mad that there is a holiday for Martin Luther King, that a black guy got the job that they wanted, or that white cops are getting called out for shooting black men and boys. So, I really think that we should be careful about normalizing the idea of white discrimination. When I was in high school my PSAT scores qualified me for a prestigious educational opportunity, the kind that looks really good on a college app. My counselor called me into her office and asked me if my naturally curly hair by chance meant I had some black in me somewhere. If I couldn't prove a minority in my family tree they were going to give the spot to a minority kid who scored less then I did. This is a professional educator telling me that! Certainly felt like discrimination to me. A few years ago, I lived in a town that had several new apartment complexes and neighborhoods. Turns out they went beyond just are you financially qualified to do you have the right ethnic background. I thought race wasn't supposed to be a factor in housing anymore but I must be wrong. At the complex we did move to, the longtime manager was fired because she wasn't renting to enough minorities. So they fired the white chick, hired a non-white one who began renting to predominantly non-white tenants. Based on my experiences with the new manager after that, I can safely say she had an entirely different standard in how she treated white tenants versus non-white. Even other complex employees were left shaking their heads at it but kept quiet because they didn't want to lose their jobs and their own apartments like the other one had. There's even a local hospital, one of the best in the area, that is for people with a specific ancestry. If another hospital or business said, you need to have _____ in your bloodline to use our facilities, wouldn't they get in trouble? I'm sure there are legal loopholes here and fine print. But in the end it doesn't matter. What matters is that a large portion of the town feels they can't go there for treatment because of their color. I can see how at there would be a need for such things, especially in the past, but all of these facilities are relatively new. If other hospitals and housing can't discriminate, how can these just because they are minority owned? This isn't sour grapes, as you seem to think so many people have, it's wondering how it's fair for anyone to discriminate against anyone else at all in such settings. We found somewhere else to live and have other hospitals we can go to, but the question is still a valid one. Why is some discrimination okay or even encouraged but others not? When does it become reverse discrimination? For me, it's about the time the apartment manager told me that they were renting to too many white people and needed more minorities or the bank wasn't going to refinance and the government funding they were trying to get would dry up. If she was telling the truth, and she had no reason to lie to me, that certainly sounds like powerful institutions forcing their hand when it seems like it should come down to a credit report or job and not color. When I was a landlord myself, race was never a factor for me. I think discrimination is like sexual harassment and all sorts of other societal ills. How one person categorizes it and how another does can be vastly different and often based on what they've experienced. But to say it doesn't exist AT ALL is possibly insulting or naive, and completely disregards that discrimination seems to be part of the human condition and has happened throughout history all around the world to a variety of races and social classes. It's a bad thing, no doubt. But, like a cancer, it can be there, growing, destroying, and not being able to see it doesn't mean it's not there. |
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,521
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Post by jayfab on Oct 27, 2017 18:57:48 GMT
No, never.
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Post by maryland on Oct 27, 2017 18:57:51 GMT
No, never that I can think of. My daughter, maybe? She is a junior in college and her boyfriend that she has been dating a year is Indian. His parents don't want him dating (even though he is 19 and a college junior) until after college. And they would not be happy because she is not Indian. When they found out about her they were very upset.
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Post by #notLauren on Oct 27, 2017 19:05:39 GMT
This is the kind of language that does what the OP fears; it shuts down any disclosures or discussions.
In answer to the OP, once. I was in a class comprised of 90% Asian students. For one homework assignment, (the professor was Chinese), we were told that we'd get extra credit if we did the homework assignment in Chinese. The problem was that this was a math class. I raised a stink and when the professor ignored me I went to the administration. Fortunately for me, the administration backed me and the extra credit was not given
Other than that, I've faced far more discrimination for being female than for being white.
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Post by hop2 on Oct 27, 2017 19:41:57 GMT
I wrote a post 3x and erased each time. I don’t think this is a conversation that is safe to participate in on this board at this time. So, I’m going to leave personal experience out if it and I’ll just say I’m on the ‘it’s not systemic in any part of society I’ve experienced’ bench and leave it at that.
Some random jerk being vile is not the same as systemic discrimination in many parts of society.
Edited for typo
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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 19:59:16 GMT
As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. Ah, that didnt take long. There's always one person with improbable scenarios (full rides for flunking minorities while top tier white students languish). Other people are trying to have an actual, thoughtful discussion and you weigh in with why Miss Bennett's story isn't about race and with your sad (hard to believe) story about how you "couldn't get a scholarship to save (your) soul." Up til now there has been very little judgment of others expressing their opinions on this thread. I hope that will continue so we can have this difficult discussion and maybe all learn something from it. |
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Post by #notLauren on Oct 27, 2017 20:01:58 GMT
I hope so too.
You asked if people "felt" discriminated against and for people to dismiss the feeling because in their opinion it's nothing like what people of color go through is incredibly rude.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 20:05:29 GMT
I wrote a post 3x and erased each time. I don’t think this is a conversation that is safe to participate in on this book and at this time. So, I’m going to leave personal experience out if it and I’ll just say I’m on the ‘it’s not systemic in any part of society I’ve experienced’ bench and leave it at that. Some random jerk being vile is not the same as systemic discrimination in many parts of society. It's a difficult topic, for sure. Thanks for responding. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 19:28:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 20:18:12 GMT
My son qualified for head start. As in top of the list. He did not get in because he is not Hispanic.
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Oct 27, 2017 20:18:51 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. There are very few NCAA full-ride scholarships, and high school students have to be registered with the NCAA clearing house. If a student doesn't have a minimum GPA they are not eligible to play NCAA sports.
The majority of scholarships issued at colleges are academic.
The time commitment to play sports in college is akin to working while in college. Mandatory workouts, mandatory practices, travel, game time, etc. I think you'd be surprised to learn the GPA of many college athletes is higher than people assume. There will always be outliers, but athletes have to remain grade eligible to play.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
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Post by likescarrots on Oct 27, 2017 23:46:38 GMT
I love it when a good 'out the racist' thread crops up on this board.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 28, 2017 0:05:32 GMT
I love it when a good 'out the racist' thread crops up on this board. And therein lies the problem. It's very hard to discuss this topic without somebody crying racist. |
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Post by redhead32 on Oct 28, 2017 0:14:41 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. Isn't this based on athletic ability, not your ethnicity? I'm assuming the athletic ability was in demand, not a skin color? |
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Oct 28, 2017 0:26:46 GMT
I love it when a good 'out the racist' thread crops up on this board. And therein lies the problem. It's very hard to discuss this topic without somebody crying racist. I think that is an interesting point likescarrots. That by noting that any of us have felt prejudice that we are somehow racist. I'm pretty damn anti-racist but I do not live in a bubble. When we play the card of nothing can feel judgmental or prejudicial because we are white- then people stop listening, stop seeking positive change and stop being willing to recognize those feelings and seek change. To pretend that it doesn't feel like something doesn't make me less racist than you. We simply have different experiences. I truly believe every experience can teach us something. I hope ALL white people feel that prejudice. It is a painful lesson that is powerful. This is what POC feel on a deeper level. If we only have a scratch maybe we can build compassion. Let the white people feel the way they feel - not stick it in a closet where we don't talk about it. Don't let it build resentment and shame! Let's harness it and say, "if you don't like it, others don't either. Knock it off." It is just my theory and why I feel that I can explain how my situation made me feel. Imagine if I only had to live like that for 14 months... my colleagues have lived with that level of frustration and fear their whole lives. Don't shut it down by being snarky. Be brave. Have the conversation. Be open, honest, and build compassion and empathy. You aren't going to do that by saying, "admitting you felt that prejudice makes you a racist." Try, "When that happened, what did you feel? Tell me more. Isn't it interesting that you and your POC colleagues feel similar? What sort of things can we do in the world to lessen those responses for you or your colleagues." |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Oct 28, 2017 0:38:42 GMT
I agree with eleezybeth. My experiences have made me more compassionate, not angry. |
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
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Post by pridemom on Oct 28, 2017 0:56:18 GMT
I anwered never. I am a minority in that I have a disability. I was raised by a divorced mother and grew up in poor neighborhoods, on public assistance, in homes that were condemnable, attended the lowest performing elementary schools, you name it. I was a top student and went to college with grants.
I work as a civil rights and equal opportunity specialist. If I have experienced discrimination, it is not because I am white.
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Post by flanz on Oct 28, 2017 0:56:40 GMT
I guess I think any issues whites may face in this realm are not systemic, and to me, there really aren't worth talking about. It comes across to me as defensive and distractionary. I agree with every word. To even try to compare any sense of discrimination against white people to what happens to black people, hispanic/Mexican people, immigrants and any other number of minorities in this country is almost unconscionable to me. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, there are bad apples in every race. And there are clear stories on this thread that proves it happens. But I have done extensive travelling for my work over the past 20 years, have been to every State and almost 20 countries. I have never felt discrimination because I was white. Now, as an American in a foreign Country - yes - but that's a whole other topic. THIS!!!! |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 28, 2017 0:57:40 GMT
I agree with eleezybeth . My experiences have made me more compassionate, not angry.  |
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Post by flanz on Oct 28, 2017 0:58:21 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in. This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. I had a similar experience I was dating an AA man, and he was looking to buy a house, this was a long time ago. Often in more "white" neighborhoods when he would call about a house they would tell him it was sold. Sometimes I would call back and they would set up an appointment. I would tell them it was for me and my boyfriend, give him his name and he would show up alone. I would let them know I couldn't make it but he would. Occasionally people would refuse to show him the house. Then we reported the worst offender. Things quickly changed after that. Can you imagine the millions of people who have dealt with this their entire lives. Racism sucks! |
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