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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 14:20:44 GMT
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Post by missbennet on Oct 27, 2017 14:30:38 GMT
Not in ways that matter. Have I thought someone lumped me in with bigots because I'm also white? Sure. Have I gotten weird hostile service at a black business when I went in with my white friends? Yes, but only one place that I can remember in 4 decades. Does it any way mirror what POC experience with everything from microaggressions to flat out bigotry in all manner of daily living? Not at all. It's quite likely that we all experience gender and race based discrimination and frequently aren't even aware of it - hiring decisions, rental decisions, etc. You only notice when it becomes a defining theme in your daily life, and that doesn't happen for white people, IMO. Sidenote: I feel anxious when I post on this topic. This is part of the problem, we have to be able to talk about this. So I'm making myself post.
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Post by ntsf on Oct 27, 2017 14:36:47 GMT
I have. but I also am a minority in our town because I am white. it has been an occasional annoyance, rather than a system wide type of thing. I can deal with it. the most vvisible one was when my son could not get a ride home from a high school dance. cause he was not chinese and the dad of his date was mad about that.. but overall.. it is nothing to complain about. white priviledge is overwhelming
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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 14:38:45 GMT
Not in ways that matter. Have I thought someone lumped me in with bigots because I'm also white? Sure. Have I gotten weird hostile service at a black business when I went in with my white friends? Yes, but only one place that I can remember in 4 decades. Does it any way mirror what POC experience with everything from microaggressions to flat out bigotry in all manner of daily living? Not at all. It's quite likely that we all experience gender and race based discrimination and frequently aren't even aware of it - hiring decisions, rental decisions, etc. You only notice when it becomes a defining theme in your daily life, and that doesn't happen for white people, IMO. Sidenote: I feel anxious when I post on this topic. This is part of the problem, we have to be able to talk about this. So I'm making myself post. Thank you for posting. It is something that makes us all anxious and many of us are afraid to discuss it publicly.
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Post by Sparki on Oct 27, 2017 14:39:29 GMT
Once, way back soon after college. I had a very ethnic name, and I think they were quite surprised that I was white. Now, I've been discriminated against in several major ways, such as the bank for a mortgage (perfect credit score) giving me the runaround on a mortgage because I now have a hispanic name. I was confused. Before my marriage and name change, I didn't experience that kind of discrimination. As a white woman, I've been shocked at the discrimination people of color experience that I had no idea about.
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Post by missbennet on Oct 27, 2017 14:45:24 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.
This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns.
It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 14:49:16 GMT
I think many white people feel that since their issues weren't nearly as bad as other races have faced, they are not worth talking about. There is a kind of guilt about bringing these issues forward, yet I do think not talking about -- and not feeling justified to talk about them -- could be what fueled some of the anger that got Trump elected. If we can't even talk about it without being chastised by others, how can we address the problem?
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Post by missbennet on Oct 27, 2017 14:56:04 GMT
I think many white people feel that since their issues weren't nearly as bad as other races have faced, they are not worth talking about. There is a kind of guilt about bringing these issues forward, yet I do think not talking about -- and not feeling justified to talk about them -- could be what fueled some of the anger that got Trump elected. If we can't even talk about it without being chastised by others, how can we address the problem? I guess I think any issues whites may face in this realm are not systemic, and to me, there really aren't worth talking about. It comes across to me as defensive and distractionary. I don't mean your bringing it up - I think that's valuable, and thank you. But my example from above with my boyfriend, that's noteworthy to me - I was able to observe his experience of being Hispanic (he's actually Mexican, which is not Hispanic as I said above, noting here) in public places. My own little indignities - they could be one off, in fact they absolutely are one off; it's not marginalization that is happening to me everywhere I turn. They are not the same, IMO. For all I know, those were based on individual people who didn't like me for some other reason, I have no idea. There is no pattern, so I can't make any conclusions. That's the point: there are no patterns. Edited for spelling weirdness and clarification.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 27, 2017 14:59:22 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Oct 27, 2017 15:03:34 GMT
Systematically? No. Personally felt the prejudice because of being white, yes. I was the only white woman on an all black team. Half of them were my friends, the other half hated me. I would find comments written about me like, "The angry white one," or "Whitey wants a stapler." My file on the one admin's outlook for me was "White bitch." I was brand new... not even turned on the full bitch yet. My black colleagues were allowed a lot of considerations that I wasn't. Things like asking to leave 5 minutes early was an automatic "no, put in a leave slip" while it was standard practice for the entire rest of the team. Or, have access to trainings, not for me. It was very obvious and the team would actually try to be sneaky about it to cover it. It was absolutely frustrating and unfair. I'm still great friends with half of them. One of the anti-Eleezybeth's has converted to a Black Israelite (I think that is the right one) and posts things that are very anti-white and honestly quite frightening. We have lots of people in common so even though we aren't friends, I see enough of her stuff.
Does a few bad apples spoil the bin? Meh, not with me. I get that people are people.
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Post by pondrunner on Oct 27, 2017 15:04:12 GMT
I never have felt that way. I do feel that as an immigrant I have experienced bias at times due to having an accent, but that is not the same.
My hiring has a bias for diversity because my community is diverse and we serve our community, so I think we should look like our community. I say that and sometimes white people get mad. They feel like that means I want to hire x number of Korean people, Indian people, black people etc. and those people are taking jobs from white people but that is not the case. in my environment language, history/heritage, and cultural knowledge are skills I want to hire for so that is why I do that.
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Post by peasapie on Oct 27, 2017 15:08:23 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. I had a similar college experience. My parents were poor and had four kids, and I couldn't get grants or scholarships despite good grades (I remember the "need not established" mail) yet my minority friends whose parents had more money than mine were getting full boats. I was working 30 hours a week while in school and falling asleep in class. I accepted that others were more in need due to a history of discrimination, the need for affirmative action, etc. I never really spoke about it, but when I read the article above, I did reflect back to that experience. I eventually quit school, worked full time, got married, had kids, and finally went back to finish up.
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,331
Jun 27, 2014 12:39:18 GMT
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Post by amom23 on Oct 27, 2017 15:11:22 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in.This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. As for the question in the OP, I know it affected me with college. There were kids I went to school with who were literally flunking out academically that were offered multiple full ride college scholarships for sports that they couldn’t accept because they weren’t going to graduate. Meanwhile, I graduated in the top 5% of my class with AP weighted classes, and couldn’t get a scholarship to save my soul. I don't think sports scholarships are on equal footing as academic scholarships. Yes no doubt it was frustrating for you to see those kids getting offers for full rides when you weren't, but they were being recruited to play a sport. And college sports is a whole different thing.
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Post by epeanymous on Oct 27, 2017 15:14:02 GMT
No, literally never. And I have been through elite schools and programs that were conscious about improving diversity--I don't consider the effort to diversify universities and workplaces to be discrimination against me as a white person.
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Post by not2peased on Oct 27, 2017 15:16:25 GMT
Not in ways that matter. Have I thought someone lumped me in with bigots because I'm also white? Sure. Have I gotten weird hostile service at a black business when I went in with my white friends? Yes, but only one place that I can remember in 4 decades. Does it any way mirror what POC experience with everything from microaggressions to flat out bigotry in all manner of daily living? Not at all. It's quite likely that we all experience gender and race based discrimination and frequently aren't even aware of it - hiring decisions, rental decisions, etc. You only notice when it becomes a defining theme in your daily life, and that doesn't happen for white people, IMO. Sidenote: I feel anxious when I post on this topic. This is part of the problem, we have to be able to talk about this. So I'm making myself post. I agree with you
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Post by missbennet on Oct 27, 2017 15:17:23 GMT
We thought of that - we discussed it and tried to account for it, because it became sort of a game for us. These were all places we were shopping anyway, so we'd go in and act like we normally would. But even if there were multiple people working, they only sent one to follow the Mexican dude. No one ever trailed me.
Also I am married to a white man and this has never happened to us. It's all anecdotal of course, but I'm fairly sure this was about one of us being Mexican.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 27, 2017 15:20:34 GMT
I had a similar college experience. My parents were poor and had four kids, and I couldn't get grants or scholarships despite good grades (I remember the "need not established" mail) yet my minority friends whose parents had more money than mine were getting full boats. I was working 30 hours a week while in school and falling asleep in class. I accepted that others were more in need due to a history of discrimination, the need for affirmative action, etc. I never really spoke about it, but when I read the article above, I did reflect back to that experience. I eventually quit school, worked full time, got married, had kids, and finally went back to finish up. I ended up not going to college until I was married and DH had graduated. In hindsight it was probably good that I didn’t go right away because in the interim I completely switched gears and ended up doing something completely different.
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Post by thundergal on Oct 27, 2017 15:32:03 GMT
Not in ways that matter. Have I thought someone lumped me in with bigots because I'm also white? Sure. Have I gotten weird hostile service at a black business when I went in with my white friends? Yes, but only one place that I can remember in 4 decades. Does it any way mirror what POC experience with everything from microaggressions to flat out bigotry in all manner of daily living? Not at all. It's quite likely that we all experience gender and race based discrimination and frequently aren't even aware of it - hiring decisions, rental decisions, etc. You only notice when it becomes a defining theme in your daily life, and that doesn't happen for white people, IMO. Sidenote: I feel anxious when I post on this topic. This is part of the problem, we have to be able to talk about this. So I'm making myself post. Well done! And I agree with you wholeheartedly.
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tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,865
Jun 26, 2014 22:49:09 GMT
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Post by tracylynn on Oct 27, 2017 15:33:40 GMT
I think many white people feel that since their issues weren't nearly as bad as other races have faced, they are not worth talking about. There is a kind of guilt about bringing these issues forward, yet I do think not talking about -- and not feeling justified to talk about them -- could be what fueled some of the anger that got Trump elected. If we can't even talk about it without being chastised by others, how can we address the problem? I guess I think any issues whites may face in this realm are not systemic, and to me, there really aren't worth talking about. It comes across to me as defensive and distractionary. I agree with every word. To even try to compare any sense of discrimination against white people to what happens to black people, hispanic/Mexican people, immigrants and any other number of minorities in this country is almost unconscionable to me. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, there are bad apples in every race. And there are clear stories on this thread that proves it happens. But I have done extensive travelling for my work over the past 20 years, have been to every State and almost 20 countries. I have never felt discrimination because I was white. Now, as an American in a foreign Country - yes - but that's a whole other topic.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Oct 27, 2017 15:33:58 GMT
Not in ways that matter. Have I thought someone lumped me in with bigots because I'm also white? Sure. Have I gotten weird hostile service at a black business when I went in with my white friends? Yes, but only one place that I can remember in 4 decades. Does it any way mirror what POC experience with everything from microaggressions to flat out bigotry in all manner of daily living? Not at all. It's quite likely that we all experience gender and race based discrimination and frequently aren't even aware of it - hiring decisions, rental decisions, etc. You only notice when it becomes a defining theme in your daily life, and that doesn't happen for white people, IMO. Sidenote: I feel anxious when I post on this topic. This is part of the problem, we have to be able to talk about this. So I'm making myself post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. When I taught at a 99% African American school, I felt like I had to prove myself as an ally to be fully trusted. In truth, I would have had to prove myself trustworthy at a 99% white school perhaps in different ways. I had little experience outside of my white suburban upbringing when I started teaching in an urban black school, I learned a lot. It took a couple of years, but I was completely accepted into my community and seen as an ally. Though we didn't use that word back then. I experienced blatant racism and discrimination when I traveled with my students. The likes that I am sure I have never experienced personally because I was white. I recognize my privilege and that any "discrimination" I may have experienced pales when compared to the privilege I get to experience every day being a white middle class educated woman.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Oct 27, 2017 15:37:44 GMT
This reminds me of a story. I was dating a Hispanic man, and he pointed this out to me: we would walk into a store together, and then separate and time how long it took until store staff started following him. Sometimes they'd actually talk to him, mostly they would trail behind and try to act casual while keeping him in sight. Usually no one even acknowledged me except to say hello when we walked in. This was Southern California, smaller stores in pretty white places, like Rolling Hills, Palos Verdes, etc. Back in those days (1990s) they were not diverse towns. It was shocking. At first I thought it was a fluke, but we kept doing it and it kept happening. That was his reality, and something I was never even aware of - actually neither was he, he thought everyone was treated that way until he started dating someone white. Ugh. I had a similar experience I was dating an AA man, and he was looking to buy a house, this was a long time ago. Often in more "white" neighborhoods when he would call about a house they would tell him it was sold. Sometimes I would call back and they would set up an appointment. I would tell them it was for me and my boyfriend, give him his name and he would show up alone. I would let them know I couldn't make it but he would. Occasionally people would refuse to show him the house. Then we reported the worst offender. Things quickly changed after that.
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Post by annabella on Oct 27, 2017 15:37:49 GMT
As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. I always separate when I go shopping with someone. We each want to look at different clothes and walk/browse at different speeds. We link up before going into the dressing room to let the other know where to find each other so we can show each other what we try on.
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Post by tracyarts on Oct 27, 2017 15:38:47 GMT
I answered "not sure".
When I was in high school, I wanted to take Spanish as my foreign language, but was told by my guidance counselor that it wasn't for me, because the Spanish teacher doesn't "dumb down" the curriculum to accommodate students who grew up only speaking English. Even the 1st level intro. class assumed you were at least semi-fluent in Spanish. He said "white kids take French here". So, that's what I took. One of mt English-only speaking friends insisted in being enrolled in Spanish, and even had another friend, a native Spanish speaker, tutor her. But she was in way over her head from day one, got nothing out of the class, and only made straight D's for showing up every day.
Yeah, I got my language credits to use to get into college, but it wasn't through the classes I really wanted to take.
This was 1986.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Oct 27, 2017 15:40:17 GMT
My experience was in Japan, though. I was sworn at, spat on, people tried to procure me for the night, wouldn't hire me based on my weight, colour of my hair, being a female, refused housing, the list goes on.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Oct 27, 2017 15:56:20 GMT
As a former storefront retailer, I would be a little wary of any group coming in and immediately splitting up regardless of their race because that’s how professional shoplifting rings sometimes work, especially in small stores with limited staff. One or more people will distract the worker while the other(s) will be in another part of the store shoplifting. This doesn’t excuse the profiling you witnessed, but it might explain some of it. I always separate when I go shopping with someone. We each want to look at different clothes and walk/browse at different speeds. We link up before going into the dressing room to let the other know where to find each other so we can show each other what we try on. I’m not saying other people don’t do that too for legitimate reasons as you’ve noted. But it’s a common tactic that shoplifters use and the police warned us about that after DH had several things go missing from his store. It was more of an issue for him than for me because he sold more expensive, bigger ticket things than I did and his store had more blind aisles and corners. After that I would always make a point to greet each person that came in so they knew that I was aware of their presence. It’s good customer service for the actual customers and a theft deterrent for those just looking for an easy mark.
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Post by busy on Oct 27, 2017 16:04:59 GMT
No. Never. I do, however, indirectly benefit from systemic discrimination against non-whites on a daily basis.
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Post by walkerdill on Oct 27, 2017 16:08:53 GMT
Yes!
I lived in Pine Hills in Orlando. It is a very BAD section of town. Primarily black people lived there when I lived there. One evening my dad was driving on the road in back of our house. There was a group of kids lined up across the road and wouldn't let him drive by. He got out of the van and yelled "get your asses out of the road". Next thing you know a kid runs over and throws a swing at him. He ducks and another kid hits him in the face with a brick. He falls to the ground and they try to rob him but he had left his wallet at home so they beat him while he laid on the ground. He was dying on the ground and they continued to beat him until someone walked out of their house.
My brother happened to be in the van hiding but seeing everything that happened. He was 12years old at the time. When the kids ran off my brother ran home and called the police. Nobody called the police or even tried to help my dad while he laid in the road. Nobody. When he was in the hospital they prepped us that he was not going to make it through the night. His face was bashed in. He ended up with 5 metal plates in his face and over 500 stitches. His body was black and blue where he had been beaten. He spent 6 weeks in the hospital. When released he still needed more surgeries to make him look normal.
The kids who did this went to the same middle school I went to at the time. They would say things like "How do you like what we did to your father" & follow me home to see where I lived. I seriously lived in fear. I would go to the school resource officer (Daily!) and he would say he's looking into things. yada yada yada. The kids were caught and we ended up going to court and the police lied so bad. The school resource office whom I saw daily said I never went to him with any problems. The police tried to push everything under the rug. They said the kids were scared of my dad since he swore at them & that's why they went after him. They were found guilty and nothing happened to them. NOTHING. They were suppose to pay restitution...Never saw it!
My dad was the sole breadwinner in the family & was in the hospital 6 weeks. It took a major toll on my family financially. We found out most of friends were not our friends. They were too afraid we would ask for money. My mom moved us out of the area while my dad was still in the hospital. We were all fearful of the kids following me. I feel like the police discriminated against us because we were white in a predominately black area. I feel like they took sides.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,613
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Oct 27, 2017 16:19:12 GMT
Never.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 16, 2024 20:48:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2017 16:21:35 GMT
While I can't say I've experienced it due to being white, I have experienced it due to my severe hearing loss. However, I would never claim that my experience was worse than those who experienced discrimination because of their race.
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Post by Fidget on Oct 27, 2017 16:22:41 GMT
I'm not sure if I would classify it as discrimination, however, I am white and went to an inner city high school ( in the 70's) that was 95% African American. I think I would have to say I felt some of my bad experiences were more racial intimidation than discrimination. Don't get me wrong, I also had some very positive experiences and made some wonderful friends. The 70's were full of racial tension though, and there were definitely some scary and stressful days. I did not enjoy high school for the most part.
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