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Post by jumperhop on Nov 12, 2017 15:31:29 GMT
Just remember their Realator is NOT working for you, he is not your friend! It is BS what he say about the home owners needing 4 weeks after closing. When you sell a house you are usually out by closing. They are the ones that want a Dec 5th closing. They need the money from the sell of their house to finance their new home. They are at your mercy, even if it is a hot market. There is no other offers. If they want to pull out and wait for another offer it is going to delay them getting their money in the bank.
You hold the cards here, stand firm on what benefits you. Jen
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Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2017 15:38:56 GMT
We had a similar issue when we closed on our first home - seller wanted an extended lease back while they were waiting for their new home to be finished. They kept wanting to amend the contract to extend the lease-back time as their new home ran behind schedule. We were young and naive enough to put up with this at first, but after the second delay, our realtor stepped in and told us we had to say no. We had given notice on our apartment and would be homeless after that date. That meant the date for us to take possession was like 10 days away. The sellers hadn't even started packing their stuff yet, thinking we would just let them lease back as long as they wanted, and were literally still taking out boxes when we arrived with our moving van. They left the place filthy, left trash all over the place, and left behind a lot of junk in the garage because we had "made them leave before they were ready." We were forced to move our things into a disgusting house (it had not been like that during the sale process at all) and then clean around them. Based on that experience, I would never allow lease-back of more than a few days or a week. Little enough that the owners are expecting to move imminently and have started to get their stuff together. Thanks for sharing your experience. That's exactly what I'm concerned about. Once they have their money and they are still the legal occupants of the house, you have so much less leverage as the owner. Theoretically we could end up having to do an eviction (although I highly doubt it would come to that). Yeah, we were young and stupid and thought we had to agree to whatever the sellers wanted. This isn't your first rodeo. Trust your gut.
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Post by Clair on Nov 12, 2017 16:07:10 GMT
You have to remember - this is a financial transaction. Don’t take anything personally.
You are not being unreasonable but their request is very normal. Many people ask for quick close and 3 month leaseback. You are dealing with your lender and the Jan 1 date which causes issues
Do what works for you. Don’t get attached to the house until the deal is done.
Neither of you is being unreasonable - you just don’t seem to be coming to terms that work for both parties.
ETA - where I live - leasebacks are very common. The new owner has a rental agreement as well as a security deposit. Closing frees up the cash. Leasebacks can be advantageous for both parties but in this case it is not.
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Rhondito
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Post by Rhondito on Nov 12, 2017 16:07:49 GMT
I can't believe how entitled they're acting. I don't know if they could find a buyer who would be willing to jump through all those hoops and meet their demands. My guess is along with needing the cash from this house to finance the new one, they don't want to have to move twice, but - not your problem. If they need the cash from the sell of their home, moving twice is probably the price they're going to have to pay for it.
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Gennifer
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Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Nov 12, 2017 16:19:10 GMT
If they want to 'be in the house for Christmas' there's no way they could be ready to move out just a couple of days later. That signifies some nostalgia, and wanting that last Christmas. Tree, decorated mantle, Christmas dinner, etc. There's no way they will want to have the house in a chaotic, mid-moving state. They won't even begin to pack things up until a few days later.
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Post by #notLauren on Nov 12, 2017 16:27:31 GMT
Ashley, you sound really level headed about the entire situation and I'd go with your gut. We all agree that the sellers are unreasonable.
The other concern is that if they refuse to leave (even on an agreed upon date), you'll be forced to go through an eviction proceeding and that can take up to six weeks.
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Nov 12, 2017 16:30:34 GMT
I normally wouldn’t worry too much about a leaseback because sellers want in their new home as badly as you do. But in this case.....
You know they want to stay later. Normally, the sellers vacate before closing so you can do a walk through, so there is no issue getting them out of the house. Not out yet? Okay, then we aren’t signing the papers until you are out.
But when dealing with a leaseback, you lose that leverage, and if they overstay the leaseback, you are now in the position of landlord and I presume stuck with eviction proceedings to make them leave. You have no control over how long their renovation will take, and no way to reasonably predict what kind of issues they might find that delays it well into the spring.
I would give them a later clising date to let them have Christmas, but insist on IMMEDIATE possession at closing. Get them out, do the walk through, then sign the papers and live happily ever after in your new home.
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Post by mcscrapper on Nov 12, 2017 16:50:25 GMT
I didn't read all of the replies but....
A leaseback, historically, is never a good idea. I used to be a realtor and we would always advise against it for various reasons but the most important one is that your homeowner's insurance will not cover these people that remain in YOUR home. I've also heard horror stories of people that have done a leaseback and the "renters" trashed the house and left the new owners with a huge mess to clean up.
I'm also pretty surprised that their agent is not advising them to get a bridge loan to cover them in the new place. Not getting the tax break would be a HUGE deal breaker for me. It isn't your responsibility to float them nor accommodate them like this. They are asking far too much in my opinion. If I were to allow a leaseback, I would only allow a week at best and I would require them to prove renter's insurance and I would not allow dispersement of funds until a final FINAL inspection has been completed upon their leaving. The one and only time one of my sellers was allowed a leaseback was because they had a cross-country move planned and a huge snow storm hit and the moving company could not get to my sellers on time. The buyers were not in a huge hurry and were very understanding but a lot of concessions had been made to make this happen and the sellers were out quite a bit of money.
Are you using the same agent or do you have your own?
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Nanner
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Post by Nanner on Nov 12, 2017 16:52:17 GMT
I wouldn't give them what they are asking for. Under no circumstances would I lease back for that length of time. You've made an offer with great terms. I would give them one more chance to either: (a) be out on December 5, or (b) move the closing date to December, and they won't have the sale proceeds until then. And I would leave it open for 24 hours, no more. You need to know now, if you are moving on December 5.
These people sound really unreasonable
Personally, if it were me, I would now be more seriously consider just walking away from it. They may just not move out. When I used to work for a lawyer who did real estate, I did see that happen. The buyers ended up having to store their belongings for a couple of weeks and move into a hotel. They did get some "rent" (there is always a tenancy-at-will agreement here), but it didn't cover what they paid for the hotel, storage unit and moving truck rental the second time.
Also realistically consider what Merge said above. They may leave the place in one terrible disgusting mes, saying you didn't give them the time THEY wanted. I think this is a very real possibility.
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Deleted
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Sept 21, 2024 0:43:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 17:01:21 GMT
Not a home buyer, so I have no experience in that aspect. But it seems to me like you are holding all the cards. The fact that their agent is trying to guilt you into giving into their demands, would not go over well with me. I don't like to be pushed like that, especially in a large financial deal like buying a house. Maybe it's time you pushed back. Tell them that it appears they are not ready to sell at this time, and you are going to start looking at other homes. They will either agree to your terms, or call you on it. Don't be afraid to walk away. You are most likely their only prospect at this time.
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Post by destined2bmom on Nov 12, 2017 17:05:44 GMT
No you are not being unreasonable. They are. What has your agent said about their demands?
Here is our story:
When we sold our West-coast house last year, we ended up having to lease it back for two weeks. The family who bought our house were anxious to get in, because they had kids who needed to be registered in school. And you know what, we didn’t blame them.
Our reason for leasing back was because the owner of the East-coast house that we bought was playing the same game. He kept trying to push out the date because he was renovating a kitchen (we found out the reason later). He had changed the close date three times and less than 48 hours before we left to drive across country, wanted to change it again. This was not the new owners of our West-coast house problem.
We said a big fat “NO”. On the close date, we had already set to have the utilities turned on, the cars being delivered and the pods being delivered as well as cleaners showing up. When we blew into town, four days before close; we drove by to see the house and this guy hadn’t moved a thing. House was filled. The guy had no intention of leaving anytime soon. We had to get on his agent to make him move out by the close date. The time on the close day was changed for both the walk through and close; to the end of day. And he was still packing when we did the walk through that afternoon.
After we moved in, we realized that he had started to strip the house, custom blinds, appliances that he said that he would leave and were in the contract and had tried to remove the granite kitchen countertops. The house was absolutely filthy. My DH met the next door neighbors, who told him that the guy had told them; that he was going to try to push moving out a month from our close. My kids would have missed their orientations for school; because we had to show three forms of proof ( utilities payment, mortgage or deed and driver license) of residency, that we lived here to register them.
You are not being unreasonable; they are. Your agent should stand up for you. Those people can rent an apartment, stay with friends or family. It’s not your problem. Your problem is the tax thing and your being able to move in.
Sorry I wrote a book. I just wanted you to see what can happen if your agent doesn’t stand up for you.
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Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 17:13:57 GMT
Thanks everyone - so many good comments here and can't respond to them all right now. A listing agent is coming soon to advise on our current home, so tidying up a bit.
We're using a different realtor than theirs, and... even with our own, I take everything with a grain of salt. I've been burned by my own realtor (not who we're using) before.
Our agent said no way in hell to a February possession. She suggested January, but that's the worst of all worlds for both sides IMO.
Been texting with her and should talk on the phone soon, sounds like the agents and sellers are going back and forth quite a bit. Agent knows our position, and the worst that can happen is they either decline or they counter with a crazy leaseback/close combo and we decline. I told them if they want to be in for Christmas, then the closing has to happen after Christmas too and no leaseback past Dec 31. I very very highly doubt they are planning on a big celebration there for a number of reasons based on what I can see on social media. Lol.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Nov 12, 2017 17:17:57 GMT
This is a major financial purchase. Don't allow emotions to cloud your judgement. I would be firm on close and move out date. Be prepared to walk away. It doesn't sound like you have to move so why play their games? I would not lease back. They don't even have the excuse of no other place to go. Don't finance (money nor time) their home selling.
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Post by beaglemom on Nov 12, 2017 17:36:32 GMT
I thought our current situation was crazy, but yours is worse. We made an offer Thursday, they excepted Friday. We close November 20th with a lease back till November 29th. Cash offer no contingencies. They need the cash to buy their new place and have somewhere they can live starting the 29th. We are out of town the 21-28th so it works fine for us. Plus our current house isn't on the market and the houses are only a couple miles apart so we are going to do a slow move in. So I can purge half our house.
But they keep adding things they are leaving (in a good way). My 6 year old dd wrote them the sweetest letter about what she liked about the house and now they want to leave her the furniture in the room she said she wants for her bedroom - 2 twin beds,a cute toy box and a dresser. We also mentioned something about the very nice wine fridge they had hanging out in the garage and they are leaving that too.
I think they are asking way too much of you!
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Nov 12, 2017 18:12:50 GMT
So if they insist on a leaseback, I would insist on some protection:
1. $50,000 of sales proceeds held in escrow to cover all potential damages. 2. Once you set a move-out date, enforce an insanely high "liquidated damages" clause of $x/day. Make it high enough to hurt so that they don't go past the moving date. Make sure you give a good justification for the high charges in the contract to make it more enforceable--storage fees and rent for you, loss of tax exemption, loss of enjoyment of your new home, delay in getting kids in schreasool, etc. Liquidated damages are supposed to cover damages that are hard to quantify, and courts will not enforce them if they are deemed too punitive. If you can justify the reasons in the contract, though, the seller is agreeing that the damages are reasonable, and they are more likely to be enforced. 3. Insist on a pre- and post- lease inspection, and photograph it ALL! Be specific regarding anything that you want left behind so they don't get into some argument over whether or not something is a fixture. If it needs to be unscrewed to remove it, they can't take it unless you agree! 4. Insist on proof of renter's insurance to cover any damage they cause to the home, and if they cannot provide it, write the contract to allow you to purchase the coverage from the escrowed amount.
I am not an attorney (any more) and do not play one on TV. So while this is my dream scenario to try to protect the buyer's rights, real attorney may say this is not a possibility. But I would definitely try to get the contract to cover this.
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on Nov 12, 2017 19:24:03 GMT
RUN! If the former owners refuse to move until convenient for them, you may encounter the issue of having to find temporary housing for yourself, navigate squatters' rights (as applicable in your state), bear the expense of an eviction, etc. IMHO very few houses are worth the inevitable aggravation. I suggest you withdraw the offer & find another home (without seller leaseback/other requests) to purchase. Best wishes...
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Post by chaosisapony on Nov 12, 2017 20:08:27 GMT
They're obviously not ready to sell. You are being very generous with your terms and I think their expectations are entirely unrealistic.
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mimima
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Post by mimima on Nov 12, 2017 22:50:00 GMT
As a Realtor, no you are not being unreasonable. They need to move into interim housing or wait until their remodel is closer to completion to put it on the market.
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Anita
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Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Nov 12, 2017 23:23:37 GMT
We've bought three houses over the course of our lives, and we always take possession at closing. No exceptions. I would never trust anyone to rent back after closing. I've heard too many horror stories. I think you are being extremely generous, and I am glad you feel fine with walking away since you may very well need to do so.
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mlana
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Post by mlana on Nov 12, 2017 23:40:47 GMT
If you were going to agree to a later move out date, consider asking them to lower the sale price of the house by the difference you’d pay in losing the homestead exemption, in addition to any other charges you might consider.
In GA, you can’t offer over asking price; it’s just not done. Something to do with stopping people from trying to subsidize remodels when they do the original purchase financing.
Marcy
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Post by scrapmaven on Nov 12, 2017 23:55:37 GMT
I wouldn't do a leaseback. Too much can go wrong. They want to stall their move out so that they don't have to move to temporary housing. Their the remodel on the new house can take months and those things never finish on time. I would re-think your contract, because these people are not ready to sell their house. You're not the bad guy if you stick to your closing date. Remember that your agent's job is to sell the house, so he/she is going to encourage you to be flexible. However, I think if you give these sellers an inch they'll take a mile.
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Post by papersilly on Nov 12, 2017 23:58:18 GMT
I wouldn't do it. Not for that length of time. Too much could go wrong. And what if their new house isn't finished with renovations on time? Will you have an eviction on your hands? I wouldn't want that hassle .
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Post by gritzi on Nov 13, 2017 1:06:32 GMT
There is no way that I would agree to a lease back 3 months after closing, plus lose the homestead exemption. Don't fall for the guilty plea given by their realtor. It's not up to you to house them while they renovate their new home, nor worry about them moving before Christmas. The sellers knew that risk when they chose to sell this time of year.
In our area houses have been selling within 24 hours with possession at closing or within 24 hours after closing.
Good luck! Stand firm on your terms. If the sellers truly wish to sell, they will accept the offer and the terms to close by Dec. 5th with possession a few days later.
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Post by ihaveonly1l on Nov 13, 2017 1:27:55 GMT
We did a lease back to a seller once. I will never do it again. While nothing major happened with damage or anything like that, getting them to go on the day they were supposed to was a pain. They ended up needing a few more days and there wasn't really anything we could do about it because by the time we would have been able to go to court to do something they were out. They were supposed to be out on a Friday. Our moving truck was arriving Monday morning. They were finally out about 10:00 PM on Sunday and then had to come back a few days later to get a few things out of the garage. It still makes my blood boil. The house was less than 6 months old and they couldn't afford it so we got a great deal, but ugh...it was a nightmare at the time. There were a few other things that were weird but the move out issue was the biggest. They were just a disorganized mess.
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Post by Anna*Banana on Nov 13, 2017 1:36:50 GMT
In an area that is super hot, while inconvenient and a PIA, it would fly. But it sounds like what they're asking for is out of the norm. I see much potential for problems. There's nothing in that deal that is in your best interests. I'd walk away from this deal. Even if they capitulate they're going to be pissing about something else as it appears their egos are in the middle of this deal.
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Post by AN on Nov 13, 2017 2:00:15 GMT
Updated: The sellers agreed to our terms of closing on Dec 5 and they are out Dec 17. We didn't have to make any further concessions, and they actually requested that they want to leave their large flat screen TV behind with the sale at no cost to us. Ok?!? No problemo.
Apparently they did get a second offer, but the other offer wasn't flexible at all on lease back and their financing was shaky.
Sellers are going to live in the 2nd story of their new home while the 1st story is renovated. My best to them! Inspection is Tuesday morning, so hopefully that goes smoothly and we're on our way to a quick close. Thanks for all your support and advice, it really helped me stay clear-headed today.
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Post by freecharlie on Nov 13, 2017 2:00:49 GMT
Glad it worked out.
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Post by destined2bmom on Nov 13, 2017 2:05:32 GMT
I am really happy that they are moving out sooner than later. Hope that you have a great inspection and easy close and move into your new home.
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Post by busy on Nov 13, 2017 2:35:07 GMT
Awesome update! Here's to a smooth inspection and closing
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Rhondito
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Post by Rhondito on Nov 13, 2017 2:52:56 GMT
Wonderful news!
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