|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 12:34:05 GMT
Updated: The sellers agreed to our terms of closing on Dec 5 and they are out Dec 17. We didn't have to make any further concessions, and they actually requested that they want to leave their large flat screen TV behind with the sale at no cost to us. Ok?!? No problemo.
Apparently they did get a second offer, but the other offer wasn't flexible at all on lease back and their financing was shaky.
Sellers are going to live in the 2nd story of their new home while the 1st story is renovated. My best to them! Inspection is Tuesday morning, so hopefully that goes smoothly and we're on our way to a quick close. Thanks for all your support and advice, it really helped me stay clear-headed today.
---------- Question: Am I missing anything? Our offer is reasonable, right?
DH and I made an offer 1% over asking on Saturday for a house listed Friday, no contingency on selling our current home and favorable option period terms/earnest money. The market is hot here, but it is in a price range that is a little bit less likely to get in bidding wars - some houses like this go in a day, some sit for a few months. They had an open house on Saturday, but it was pretty slow from what I could tell. We're now going back and forth between the agents, and I don't have any reason to think there are any other offers yet.
The house is 18 years old, these are the original owners and it was a custom build. I mention that because I think the owners are pretty attached and think quite highly of their home (as do we, but an attached seller can complicate things).
They want to close FAST. We offered Dec 5, which we'll really have to hustle to get everything together by then, but we can do it. Of course, every day that goes by it gets harder and harder to meet that date. We knew when we put in the offer that they'd want a lease back, but didn't know the reason why. I figured it was just to smooth closing on their next place and moving, so I figured a week or two.
The reason they want to close fast is because they are purchasing another home and then going to do a major, to the studs, renovation on it. They need the cash for that house.
Well, now that we're negotiating on the offer, they want to lease back until THE END OF FEBRUARY, but still close Dec 5! I want to take possession December 17th and am thinking I should be really firm on this for a few reasons:
#1. Our lender will only allow 59 days lease back in writing. I don't want to do any deals outside of the official, in-writing deal. If they don't want to move until February, then I guess closing should be later.
#2. I'm concerned that if they are planning to lease back for the entire duration of the renovation, there's a good chance that renovation isn't going to be done on time and then where does that leave us? I think getting people who've owned the home for 18 years and have "just a couple more weeks!" left on the renovation is going to be a nightmare.
#3. This is a big one - if we're not in the house by Jan 1, we can't claim the homestead exemption on taxes for the year. That caps the amount taxes can go up, and that is a big deal around here because property taxes are very expensive.
#4. DH and I both have a lot of time off around the holidays, so being able to clean, prep/paint, and hopefully move over that time
#5. We'll be holding our current home + the new home during the period of the lease back. They'd be paying us enough to cover the mortgage/insurance on the new place, but I'm anxious to get our current home sold ASAP after we close on the new home so we can free up that cash. This wouldn't be the end of the world, because we'd likely then hit the spring market, but I think our current home will sell fast.
Their agent is being pissy and saying "We thought you were flexible! It's unreasonable to ask them to be out before Christmas! They need at least 4 weeks after closing." Meh. I'm uninspired by this complaint. I think 11 days leaseback already is pretty flexible. The house is already really pared down and staged (including attic, not like they stashed everything up there), so there isn't an insane amount of stuff for them to move. It's an empty-nester couple, no kids at home. She said they have "other options" for where they could live in the interim - they actually own a lake house outside the city, plus I'm sure she meant temporary housing or with family. I think they should go ahead and pursue that. I don't get the sense they want "one last Christmas" in the house or anything.
I figure we have the upper hand here. Who else are they going to get to make an offer that will agree to wait 3+ months to move in, while still closing ASAP? Every day they wait makes it less likely someone can close that quickly, unless it's a cash offer. This 18 year old house is in the same price range as similar quality new construction we've been looking at. The existing house is a better value because of a pool, patio, and landscaping, but of course, a new house would have all-new, more energy-efficient everything. If this deal falls through, while I love the house - it's just a house and we can go build one, which also gives us more flexibility on selling our house before moving, getting the exact layout and finishes, etc. (Or find another existing one, although to be honest, what we want is relatively rare, so I wouldn't say "whatever, houses like this come up all the time" - they don't.)
So, what do you think? I'm thinking I should stay firm to the deadlines we requested. If they didn't want to leave the house yet, maybe they shouldn't have... uh, listed the house for sale? My opinion is I'm not interested in both financing your new renovation AND providing you a place to live during it, all on your timeline, while you still feel entitled to act like the owners of the house instead of the renters you would be.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 21, 2024 0:47:33 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 12:43:08 GMT
IMO, yes, they are asking too much. They aren't ready to sell. Their renovation plans aren't your problem. Personally, I wouldn't be giving them until the 17th either. Closing is closing, they should be ready to turn over the keys. I don't want them still in the house to cause damage after I'm tied to it.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 12:50:40 GMT
IMO, yes, they are asking too much. They aren't ready to sell. Their renovation plans aren't your problem. Personally, I wouldn't be giving them until the 17th either. Closing is closing, they should be ready to turn over the keys. I don't want them still in the house to cause damage after I'm tied to it. Yeah, during my googling-while-I-should-be-sleeping, this is a pretty common opinion. My thought is the lease back makes the offer stronger on a house that I thought might get multiple offers, and it's not uncommon around here given the domino game that is buying & selling. I'm comfortable with 7 - 14 days lease back, and I'm not worried about them doing damage based on how the house is maintained and some other info we've gotten. But, as you say, I also think it's very reasonable to just say, "We're happy to let you stay in the house, but we'll close when you're ready to leave." They can decide if they value the money ASAP or the flexibility on moving date more. Or maybe they get a magical unicorn offer that gives them everything they want and this is all moot. And then you all can help me plan a new house, haha.
|
|
|
Post by MZF on Nov 12, 2017 12:51:22 GMT
They are asking too much, IMO. I am of the opinion that upon closing, they vacate. Your reasons are valid and could be quite costly to you.
|
|
|
Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Nov 12, 2017 12:51:59 GMT
They really want their cake and to eat it, too. I'm surprised their agent seems to be feeding into their unrealistic expectations instead of tempering them.
If you are willing to walk away (not that you *want to* but would if you *had to*), them I'd stick to my guns. Your reasons for wanting to get in before the holidays are just as valid as their reasons to want to wait an unreasonable period of time.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 12:54:59 GMT
They really want their cake and to eat it, too. I'm surprised their agent seems to be feeding into their unrealistic expectations instead of tempering them. If you are willing to walk away (not that you *want to* but would if you *had to*), them I'd stick to my guns. Your reasons for wanting to get in before the holidays are just as valid as their reasons to want to wait an unreasonable period of time. Their agent is managing their renovation too. So that probably explains it.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 21, 2024 0:47:33 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 13:01:12 GMT
Yeah, NO. They are asking too much and they need to be out of the house so that you can move into your new home. They can go live in their lake house during their renovations. Or Motel 6. It's not your problem. Their pissy agent can deal with your agent, or not.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 21, 2024 0:47:33 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 13:02:57 GMT
They really want their cake and to eat it, too. I'm surprised their agent seems to be feeding into their unrealistic expectations instead of tempering them. If you are willing to walk away (not that you *want to* but would if you *had to*), them I'd stick to my guns. Your reasons for wanting to get in before the holidays are just as valid as their reasons to want to wait an unreasonable period of time. Their agent is managing their renovation too. So that probably explains it. Oh, well....there ya go.
|
|
|
Post by mikklynn on Nov 12, 2017 13:06:28 GMT
Yeah, NO. They are asking too much and they need to be out of the house so that you can move into your new home. They can go live in their lake house during their renovations. Or Motel 6. It's not your problem. Their pissy agent can deal with your agent, or not. My thoughts, exactly.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 13:13:06 GMT
Thanks guys, it's really helpful to bounce it off of others and just calibrate thinking. I texted my realtor that I'm 100% firm on the timeline, and also told her I think we should push back the closing date if they don't execute the agreement tonight or tomorrow.
She said now they're saying they want to be in the house for Christmas, but 1) I think that's just a way to push us that much further and 2) now that I've had time to think about it, I don't really want that either. Lots of potential for damage and wear over the holidays. If they want to be in over Christmas, then we can close & take possession Dec 28 - 30, when we can do a good walk through with the house empty.
If you want to be in your home for Christmas, maybe don't list it on November 10th in a hot market.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 21, 2024 0:47:33 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 13:13:19 GMT
I'd stick to your guns on the date and let them reject offer and I'd pass. You will find another home without unrealistic sellers.
I do like the idea of telling them to give you a call when they're ready to sell because they're not ready and their new rennovation is not your problem
|
|
lisaknits
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,466
May 28, 2015 16:14:56 GMT
|
Post by lisaknits on Nov 12, 2017 13:25:06 GMT
I am totally on your side, but you might have to walk away from this house. If this family wasn't prepared to get an offer so quickly, why the heck didn't they wait until January to list it? Push back and stand your ground.
|
|
hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,673
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Aug 29, 2014 18:57:20 GMT
|
Post by hannahruth on Nov 12, 2017 13:42:56 GMT
There is no way I would lease back while they do a renovation! What happens if the reno is not completed by the estimated time? You are stuck in limbo.
As you say they have other accommodation options and if they want to sell then they would move out.
I would walk away from the sale I'd they are not agreeable to closing in early Dec as first negotiated.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 13:47:06 GMT
I am totally on your side, but you might have to walk away from this house. If this family wasn't prepared to get an offer so quickly, why the heck didn't they wait until January to list it? Push back and stand your ground. You're totally right, we might have to walk away. I feel oddly at peace about that. I get really emotionally wound up about houses, they're kind of my thing, but I think they pushed a little too hard yesterday when their agent sent a message about "Wow, we thought they were going to be flexible," and now I'm feeling rather "F you" about the whole thing. A house is just a house, there are others out there, and like I said - the new build options are interesting too. Thank you for your encouragement!
|
|
|
Post by artgirl1 on Nov 12, 2017 13:47:47 GMT
NO NO NO!
How do you know that they are going to maintain "your home" during that lease time?
If they want to stay in house through Christmas, then close on 12/26, and take possession that day.
As a former realtor, I have seen too many issues arise during the lease period. Not worth the hassle.
And lack of planning on their part is not an emergency/inconvenience on yours.
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Nov 12, 2017 13:57:41 GMT
We had a similar issue when we closed on our first home - seller wanted an extended lease back while they were waiting for their new home to be finished. They kept wanting to amend the contract to extend the lease-back time as their new home ran behind schedule. We were young and naive enough to put up with this at first, but after the second delay, our realtor stepped in and told us we had to say no. We had given notice on our apartment and would be homeless after that date. That meant the date for us to take possession was like 10 days away.
The sellers hadn't even started packing their stuff yet, thinking we would just let them lease back as long as they wanted, and were literally still taking out boxes when we arrived with our moving van. They left the place filthy, left trash all over the place, and left behind a lot of junk in the garage because we had "made them leave before they were ready." We were forced to move our things into a disgusting house (it had not been like that during the sale process at all) and then clean around them.
Based on that experience, I would never allow lease-back of more than a few days or a week. Little enough that the owners are expecting to move imminently and have started to get their stuff together.
|
|
moodyblue
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,246
Location: Western Illinois
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
|
Post by moodyblue on Nov 12, 2017 14:02:08 GMT
They are asking too much. And if they have another option for a place to live during renovations of their new house, they should make use of it and not expect you to delay your move.
The fact that you are willing to walk away if need be is good, and it may work out in your favor if they know that you are OK with that happening. I can't imagine they will find too many buyers willing to agree to what they want, even in a hot market.
|
|
Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
|
Post by Loydene on Nov 12, 2017 14:24:14 GMT
For your tax impact alone, they are asking too much. And I wouldn't wait much longer to withdraw your offer and find another house. Around here, closings take at least 30 days -- for all the paperwork!
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Nov 12, 2017 14:32:44 GMT
My brother just did a lease back for a month. They had 8 offers the first day on the market and were out of town. The lease back gave them the time to close and take possession if their new houae.
But February? No Way. Tell them your firm date and walk away if needed.
|
|
|
Post by busy on Nov 12, 2017 14:36:32 GMT
I wouldn’t give them what they are asking for, but if I really liked the house, I would offer them to extend the leaseback until a couple days after Christmas but be clear that’s firm because of the homestead taxes issue. My hunch is they don’t care about it that much and Christmas is just an excuse but the offer makes you seem reasonable (in their eyes - you are already being plenty reasonable) and harder to say no to. If they didn’t accept that, I’d walk.
And if I didn’t really love the house, I wouldn’t even offer that - I’d just walk now.
|
|
|
Post by pondrunner on Nov 12, 2017 14:38:10 GMT
If you walk away from this contract, will a comparable property come available in time for you to be in that house in time to get the exemption?
|
|
|
Post by **GypsyGirl** on Nov 12, 2017 14:38:34 GMT
They are asking way too much. It's time to tell their realtor that they close on the arranged date of Dec 5, or you are walking away from the deal. I'd bet that since they got your offer so quickly they will walk away, assuming that they will get another offer just as quickly.
Having done 2 major, to the studs remodels, I can assure you there is no way their new house will be ready by the end of February. Especially if they haven't even closed on that other house yet! If they need the cash to do the remodel, then they need to find a temporary place to live - and not the house they are trying to sell to obtain that cash!
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 14:41:28 GMT
If you walk away from this contract, will a comparable property come available in time for you to be in that house in time to get the exemption? No, but that's not an issue. We have no need to move. The only issue comes in when we own it on Jan 1 but don't occupy it. If we buy a house in 2018, then the current homeowner will carry the exemption and we claim it for 2019. Just don't want the property to be in a rental state on Jan 1.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 14:43:03 GMT
They are asking way too much. It's time to tell their realtor that they close on the arranged date of Dec 5, or you are walking away from the deal. I'd bet that since they got your offer so quickly they will walk away, assuming that they will get another offer just as quickly. Having done 2 major, to the studs remodels, I can assure you there is no way their new house will be ready by the end of February. Especially if they haven't even closed on that other house yet! If they need the cash to do the remodel, then they need to find a temporary place to live - and not the house they are trying to sell to obtain that cash! They might! But I've heard the saying "The best offer is the first offer."
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 14:46:04 GMT
I wouldn’t give them what they are asking for, but if I really liked the house, I would offer them to extend the leaseback until a couple days after Christmas but be clear that’s firm because of the homestead taxes issue. My hunch is they don’t care about it that much and Christmas is just an excuse but the offer makes you seem reasonable (in their eyes - you are already being plenty reasonable) and harder to say no to. If they didn’t accept that, I’d walk. And if I didn’t really love the house, I wouldn’t even offer that - I’d just walk now. Thanks. I do reallllly love the house. But knowing I could build something comparable for a similar price is keeping me more even keeled, even if it means we add outdoor living and pool in the future and that brings the total cost up a bit. There's something to be said for a proven house that hasn't had foundation or structural issues in 20 years, but there's a lot to be said for the energy efficiency gains in building materials since then too. I'd be willing to consider the Christmas thing, if they propose it, but seems like they're just asking questions to see what we'll offer up instead of making their own proposal considering our needs.
|
|
|
Post by AN on Nov 12, 2017 14:47:39 GMT
We had a similar issue when we closed on our first home - seller wanted an extended lease back while they were waiting for their new home to be finished. They kept wanting to amend the contract to extend the lease-back time as their new home ran behind schedule. We were young and naive enough to put up with this at first, but after the second delay, our realtor stepped in and told us we had to say no. We had given notice on our apartment and would be homeless after that date. That meant the date for us to take possession was like 10 days away. The sellers hadn't even started packing their stuff yet, thinking we would just let them lease back as long as they wanted, and were literally still taking out boxes when we arrived with our moving van. They left the place filthy, left trash all over the place, and left behind a lot of junk in the garage because we had "made them leave before they were ready." We were forced to move our things into a disgusting house (it had not been like that during the sale process at all) and then clean around them. Based on that experience, I would never allow lease-back of more than a few days or a week. Little enough that the owners are expecting to move imminently and have started to get their stuff together. Thanks for sharing your experience. That's exactly what I'm concerned about. Once they have their money and they are still the legal occupants of the house, you have so much less leverage as the owner. Theoretically we could end up having to do an eviction (although I highly doubt it would come to that).
|
|
|
Post by **GypsyGirl** on Nov 12, 2017 14:48:28 GMT
They might! But I've heard the saying "The best offer is the first offer." Very true, but you need to be a rational and unattached seller to realize that. I don't think that's what you are dealing with. Not to mention a realtor who is apparently double dipping (selling and remodeling).
|
|
johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,684
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
|
Post by johnnysmom on Nov 12, 2017 14:53:37 GMT
Sounds like you're ok walking away from this so I'd put your best offer (be it mid-month or Dec. 26 possession) in and tell them that's it. Worst they can do is say no, right?
I don't know if it's still true but around here possession 30 days after closing was considered normal, but this is a cold market (freezing by comparison to there apparently) heck, offering asking price is unheard of and an offer of over asking? The buyers would be questioned about their sanity. But given your area I think you're being totally reasonable, they're being a bit greedy.
|
|
|
Post by auroraborealis on Nov 12, 2017 14:59:00 GMT
Ugh! You are being entirely reasonable, even generous! The tax/homestead thing alone is an absolute deal-killer! In fact, due to that and the things they are saying, I would be very nervous about an after Christmas/before New Years move out with them, you don't need to own this and have them reluctant to move, not willing/didn't pack up, etc. I would not concede further and get ready to walk away from this or withdrawn your offer. If they want to stay later, the closing date can fit when they want to move out.
I am not even quite sure why they can't swing their renovation without this rent-back? Why can't they take out a home equity line to pay for the renovations--from this house (original owner), or from their vacation home? It seems like they have many options to pay for their renovation, they can loan themselves the money from their own equity... I'm not convinced they can't get what they want without this. And would it really kill them to have to move into a temporary rental or their vacation home while they renovate?
Is the realtor driving half of this I wonder?
|
|
perumbula
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,439
Location: Idaho
Jun 26, 2014 18:51:17 GMT
|
Post by perumbula on Nov 12, 2017 15:05:35 GMT
I think you are a being ridiculously flexible being willing to do any kind of leaseback at all. Those are bad news and I never recommend them to my clients. Heck, I write every contract for possession at closing and will counter any offer that says anything different, even though a three day delay has been common in my area in the past.
stick to your guns. These sellers are nuts. You are totally right.
|
|