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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 3:30:36 GMT
I'm a member of a very multicultural book club. I'm not particularly good friends with any of the members and I only really see them at the meeting once a month. They are very friendly though. Last year's theme was ''countries' and each host chose a book from their home country. The last person to host is Hawaiian but she chose Stephanie Nielson's (Nie Nie) book. I felt she was just using the book club to push her LDS faith. As a lifelong atheist I avoid religious literature (particularly Mormon mommy bloggers) at all costs, so I didn't read the book. I was also subbing at my kids' school on meeting day so I didn't go. This year the leader of the group (and devout Christian) chose the theme 'things that matter'. She is hosting the first meeting and chose the book "The Hand of God - A Journey from Death to Life by an Abortion Doctor who changed his Mind" by Bernard N. Nathanson, MD. As I said I'm an atheist and also a pro-choice supporter so this book and the ensuing conversation doesn't appeal to me one bit. I feel she is using book club to further her own agenda. I read books by well known atheists like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and Chris Hitchens, but I would never choose one for book club out of respect for other people's faith. So, should I just tell her (and the others) I can't make it or explain politely why I don't want to join in this time around? What would you do?
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 4, 2014 3:44:03 GMT
I think that when it's your turn to pick a book on something that matters, you should pick one that relates to something you find very important. Clearly she feels strongly that ending abortion matters, and found a book that she thought would fit the theme. I am of the mindset that you join a book club in the hope of reading new things and sharing the different ways people interpreted the writing. I think you are going to have the same opinion no matter who picks the book next time, no matter the subject. (the opinion being that they are furthering their agendas). I don't think that's the case. I am wondering if this is the theme for the whole year, if maybe this is no longer the right book club for you.
For what it's worth I would be uncomfortable reading both of those books. I'm not a fan of Nie Nies, and won't waste my reading time on her story. And i am also pro choice, and am not too interested in reading a book about a former abortion dr. Though, of the two is much rather read the abortion dr one. I would probably opt out of reading them both. I wouldn't say anything about it, unless asked. But I would reevaluate whether his club were still a good fit for me.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Sept 4, 2014 3:49:23 GMT
It sounds like you are taking these choices as personal affronts. Is it possible that you are being too sensitive about these themes? Do you think maybe you would be better off in a book group that just reads the kinds of books that you are interested in? I've been in several book groups and we only read novels. I don't remember ever being offended by anything. Of course I didn't like every book, but I didn't expect to. I generally finished and discussed all of the books because I felt like that was the unwritten contract with the book club.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Sept 4, 2014 3:50:11 GMT
As long as there was nothing negative said about the 2 books you mentioned, you should feel free to choose one written by one of your favorite Atheist authors.
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Post by lightetc on Sept 4, 2014 3:55:58 GMT
What about the rest of the people? Are you outnumbered in your beliefs and would be the sole dissenter or would there be a variety of opinions provoking an interesting discussion. If the former, then perhaps it's going to be a hard year in that regard and you'd be better off with a different book club. If the latter, then it's up to you. I understand why you don't want to read the book but book clubs often encourage you out of your usual comfort zone. Just because you believe otherwise doesn't mean it hurts to understand why the opposition believe what they do.
If it really makes you uncomfortable, then apologise and skip out this month. Personally, I probably wouldn't tell them why, if I was strongly outnumbered, particularly if I felt the rest of the members would make a less polarising choice and I wanted to participate for the rest of the year.
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Post by DinCA on Sept 4, 2014 3:56:02 GMT
It sounds to me like it's not a good fit for you. And it also sounds like you're looking for a reason to bow out so I would just tell them that you'll be too busy this next year to participate. I don't think it's necessary to tell them why exactly unless that's a discussion you want to have.
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Post by Megan on Sept 4, 2014 4:22:12 GMT
Either the book group isn't for you, or there's good discussions you're missing. 
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 4:37:57 GMT
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Post by lesleyanne on Sept 4, 2014 5:00:36 GMT
Your turn: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. It's not offensive the same way the other books are not offensive to non-members. <smirk>
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Post by lightetc on Sept 4, 2014 9:23:51 GMT
yeah, i don't think you're unreasonable in your belief that she should have picked something more typically American, or yes, even about Hawaii, but she didn't. She may not even realise she is pushing these things, they're just how she sees her world. You can rock the boat, make a fuss and call her on her behaviour or you can let it go. I'd probably let it go, miss this month if you choose to and enjoy the choices that everyone else makes. I can't imagine everyone else is going to enjoy her choice as much as she is, but it's just one month per year. If she was a close friend and it was affecting our relationship then maybe calling her out would be more productive. Good luck!
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Sept 4, 2014 9:44:29 GMT
I'd find another book club. Your views sound very similar to my own, and I would be out of there like a shot. They are using it as a means to proselytise. Mind you, you could always pitch up with something by Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins, and see how they like them apples.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 10:12:53 GMT
I agree that this book club doesn't sound like a good fit for you. That's a shame, because I have found my book club to be one of the most enriching things that I do for myself. Even though I belong to an organized religion, I wouldn't enjoy what you're describing either.
My book club runs differently in that everyone brings books at the beginning of the year and we vote. Only once in 15 years of belonging did we choose something that I did not want to read because of personal beliefs. I simply didn't go that month and didn't say anything to anyone.
We have had some pretty contentious discussions even without books that have a particular premise. We decided a long time ago to stay away from self-help books because it just got too personal. No one has ever brought any books such as you've described, and I think as a group we would vote down anything that promoted any particular viewpoint.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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JustTricia
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Jul 2, 2014 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by JustTricia on Sept 4, 2014 10:21:04 GMT
You said you have members that are Buddhists, Jewish, Hindus, and Christians, and that last year you read novels including all of those faiths. Why was the LDS book and now this book an issue? Is it because the others were novels so I assume fiction and these are non-fiction, or are the religious topics themselves the issue? I'm trying to figure out why all the religions you listed were okay but these are not?
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back to *pea*ality
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Sept 4, 2014 11:03:53 GMT
Your statements are contradictory. Why would an atheist would join a book club that includes books in the religious genre ? Why complain about a book written by a LDS woman who survives a plane crash? I think some people love feigned outrage and look to be offended.
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Post by jmurray on Sept 4, 2014 11:40:02 GMT
Clubs such as these are to be enjoyed not endured - if I'm doing more of the latter than the former then I'm out. Sounds like you're uncomfortbale with the way this one is going, so why not look for another club? FWIW I'm also athiest and there's no way I'd spend as much as 5 minutes of my limited free time reading either of those 2 books, when there are thousands out there I'd enjoy more.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Sept 4, 2014 11:43:40 GMT
I think the OP is less "looking" to be offended than noting that when the theme was countries, someone chose a book that was NOT part of the theme. Instead that person chose a faith-based book. I can see why the OP would view that as pushing an agenda.
The abortion book would not be one I would read and I wouldn't attend that meeting because at this point, having heard the debate for 30+ years, I'm no longer interested in debating the topic or hearing other people's opinions on it.
At this point, I would not attend. If asked why, i would state my reasons. If I saw that other books coming up were veering in directions I didn't find valuable, I'd bow out of the club. But right now, I'd wait and see -- if that is, I'd found the meetings fun and useful before. Sometimes it's a temporary glitch or hiccup and sometimes it's sign of change. You don't know until you wait and see.
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Sept 4, 2014 11:47:57 GMT
are you sure you're not reading too much into this? Hawaii isn't a country, it's part of the US, and NieNie is an American author, so... just saying, maybe she took that approach instead of a Hawaiian author.
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 4, 2014 11:56:52 GMT
I've been a member of my book club for over 12 years. There are two or three of us who are WAYYYYY more liberal than the rest. The rest are pretty faithful and conservative in their views.
The way I look at it is that the beauty of book club is that it forces you to read books that you would probably not choose on your own. Sometimes those books go against every single thing I believe in, but they *do* give me insight into how someone else might believe how they believe. I have learned all kinds of things, I have rethought some of my own beliefs...and over the course of a decade plus, I have become more compassionate and understanding because I have been exposed to not only new books but the beliefs behind them through discussion.
My group is pretty cool though. We have never had any kind of animosity, we all tend to just roll along. There is good-natured teasing (as in "hey anxious, you need to stop watching CNN and start watching FOX to see what's really happening..." and always done with good intentions not meanness.)
Saying all that, I would gently suggest that a good review of how you feel about participation in that particular book club. If you are not getting any joy from attending, then perhaps it isn't the right fit? I know that with my group the enjoyment I get isn't just from the book/discussion...it is the sisterhood I find within my group-and to me that is just as important.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 12:43:48 GMT
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msliz
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Post by msliz on Sept 4, 2014 12:50:51 GMT
I also think you should find another book club.
This one hasn't been a good fit for you for awhile now, and that doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 13:21:10 GMT
Thanks for all the different perspectives. I think I'll politely decline this month's choice without explaining why. I'll wait and see what's chosen in October and go from there.
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Peal
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Post by Peal on Sept 4, 2014 13:24:41 GMT
Maybe your Hawaiian member just has crappy taste in reading material. I'm LDS and I wouldn't want to read that book and I certainly wouldn't try to foist it onto others. I don't particularly care for the LDS genre in books anyway.
In the book club I used to be in we voted on books. Someone would make a recommendation and if there was enough interest in it, we would read it. Those that didn't want to could skip that month or not read it and still show up for the food and socialization. No one thought badly of them. But maybe this group isn't a good fit for you. With the theme of Things That Matter, you're probably going to be reading about everyone's personal cause this year. Is that something you are interested in. It's basically making book club a platform for each member to sell what they believe in. I wouldn't like that.
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scrappyesq
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Post by scrappyesq on Sept 4, 2014 13:26:31 GMT
I would read it, then engage in the discussion to present an alternative view. The best way for people to learn is through hearing opinions different from theirs.
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Sept 4, 2014 13:43:36 GMT
wow, really? i wasn't saying you didn't know that, just making a point that her take on countries might've been more literal than yours. unclench. generally true about the mormons tho, i was giving her the benefit of the doubt. either way, sounds like you need a new book club. 
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Post by cade387 on Sept 4, 2014 13:54:41 GMT
Not that it really matters, but I'm curious.... is she actually Hawaiian or did she just live in Hawaii previously?
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JustTricia
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Jul 2, 2014 17:12:39 GMT
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Post by JustTricia on Sept 4, 2014 13:55:24 GMT
You said the theme was countries. She picked a book written by a fellow countryman about her life in her country. While you may have preferred she pick a Hawaiian author, apparently she didn't. What if she was from New York? Would you be as offended if she didn't pick a book by a New York author?
And why is it specific to this woman? Why do you feel she was pushing her agenda, but the person who picked a book with the Hindu characters wasn't pushing Hindu, and the book with the Jewish characters wasn't pushing Judaism? What is the difference?
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Sept 4, 2014 14:08:08 GMT
Maybe I'm in a shit disturbing mood, but I would read this month's book and go as the opposing argument. But then again, I'm so tired of the abortion debate it would be annoying, but I'm in a shit disturbing mood that I would want to refute the book in its entirety.
I wouldn't want to read Nie Nie's book either. She's batshit crazy and doesn't need more fodder for her attention whoring.
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~Susan~
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Post by ~Susan~ on Sept 4, 2014 14:12:26 GMT
It sounds like it is time for you to move on and find a group that is a better fit.
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Post by katieanna on Sept 4, 2014 14:16:33 GMT
I've been a member of my book club for over 12 years. There are two or three of us who are WAYYYYY more liberal than the rest. The rest are pretty faithful and conservative in their views. The way I look at it is that the beauty of book club is that it forces you to read books that you would probably not choose on your own. Sometimes those books go against every single thing I believe in, but they *do* give me insight into how someone else might believe how they believe. I have learned all kinds of things, I have rethought some of my own beliefs...and over the course of a decade plus, I have become more compassionate and understanding because I have been exposed to not only new books but the beliefs behind them through discussion. My group is pretty cool though. We have never had any kind of animosity, we all tend to just roll along. There is good-natured teasing (as in "hey anxious, you need to stop watching CNN and start watching FOX to see what's really happening..." and always done with good intentions not meanness.) Saying all that, I would gently suggest that a good review of how you feel about participation in that particular book club. If you are not getting any joy from attending, then perhaps it isn't the right fit? I know that with my group the enjoyment I get isn't just from the book/discussion...it is the sisterhood I find within my group-and to me that is just as important. ITA with this. But if you are uncomfortable reading books that collide with your beliefs, then maybe you need to find a book club that best fits your views.
ETA: One of these days when I have more time, I'd love to join a book club. A book club should be enjoyed, not endured.
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Post by shanni on Sept 4, 2014 14:37:38 GMT
You said the theme was countries. She picked a book written by a fellow countryman about her life in her country. While you may have preferred she pick a Hawaiian author, apparently she didn't. What if she was from New York? Would you be as offended if she didn't pick a book by a New York author? And why is it specific to this woman? Why do you feel she was pushing her agenda, but the person who picked a book with the Hindu characters wasn't pushing Hindu, and the book with the Jewish characters wasn't pushing Judaism? What is the difference? I was wondering the same thing as you about it being acceptable to read books from other religions but not LDS. Although, I will say that I am Mormon as well and have ZERO interest in reading Nie Nie's book. I would have skipped that one too. That woman drives me nuts.  I wonder if the ones from the other religions were novels, where the religious aspects were treated more as informational and cultural, rather than simply an attempt to be "uplifting"? Perhaps if she had chosen a book where the character was a Mormon pioneer but the faith was a detail in the story, not the whole story, #Kokeshi doll would have been okay with it? (Not trying to put words in your mouth, Kokeshi, just trying to understand your POV.) Honestly, I think "Things that Matter" is going to be a really hard theme to do while still respecting others' beliefs. What matters to one may be offensive to another. It sounds to me like this book club may not be the right fit for you, and I don't blame you. I think I would be bowing out as well.
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