zztop11
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Oct 10, 2014 0:54:51 GMT
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Post by zztop11 on Feb 9, 2018 5:45:24 GMT
We've been having work done on our house since the end of last summer. All the carpeted floors replaced with hardwood, most of the rooms painted, updated electrical work, new bathroom, etc. My husband and I have become very close with the contractor. He is starting out his business. We are both retired. I cook for him and his partner, listen to him. He calls me his second mother. He is not close to his first. I got him a special cake for his birthday, etc. The work we are having done has cost us a lot of money and we certainly don't have an endless supply. So here is the dilemma. When he gave me the price to redo the bathroom, he did not know to charge me more because I chose smaller tiles. Had I known he would charge me more for small tiles, I would have been just as happy to choose a larger tile. They are subway tile size. It has taken him MUCH longer to do the work then he anticipated. He said if it were any other customer, he would be charging them an additional $1000. But because it is me I think he wants about another $500.
I feel strongly that I should not have to pay him more for this error on his part. Legally, I don't have to. Ethically, am I being a bad person not to want to give him this money. He is very bright and does meticulous work. It is gorgeous. What are your feelings about this? Thanks.
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Post by monicad on Feb 9, 2018 6:04:41 GMT
It sounds like you are spending a large amount of money, so an extra $500-$1000 isn’t a a lot in the scheme of things. Tile work is not easy and does take a lot of time to do well, which it sounds like he’s doing. If this is the only thing he’s underestimated and you don’t think he’s trying to nickel and dime you, I’d probably pay the full amount. Or, at the very least, give him the $500. He may turn you down, but if you’re happy with his work and you agree that it’s costing him a lot of time, I think that’s fair.
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zztop11
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Oct 10, 2014 0:54:51 GMT
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Post by zztop11 on Feb 9, 2018 6:04:49 GMT
ttt
Come on Peas. You must have some opinions. You always do.
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Post by mom2samlibby on Feb 9, 2018 6:20:53 GMT
The part that sticks out to me is that he did not know to charge you more because they would take longer to install. I think this is a tough lesson on him. He now knows that small subway tile will take more time to install and should be at an increased charge. It sounds like you have given him a lot of business. The only thing he's out on the tile job is the extra time, so I think he shouldn't charge more.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Feb 9, 2018 6:35:58 GMT
I think when you took the professional relationship level personal (cooking, birthday cake, second mother), you set yourself up for him acting unprofessionally. He's just starting out, made a mistake in the estimate, that's a painful lesson he should learn from going forward. But since you're his "second mother" and he felt comfortable enough asking for the extra money from you, you're in a bad spot. Personally I'd worry that if you don't pay up he'll act more unprofessionally in some other manner.
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Feb 9, 2018 6:39:12 GMT
Pay him the $500. He has done the work after all. He won't be making this mistake again.
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Post by LiLi on Feb 9, 2018 6:49:41 GMT
For ethical reasons, I would pay at least the $500.00 He has asked for, since he has done the work and it doesn't sound like he is trying to rip you off.
Legally? Did you have an estimate, or was it a quote? They are 2 different things so it matters. If you had a quote, did it specify provisions for change orders?
You could technically be required to pay it, or not depending on the contract you have with him.
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Post by nlwilkins on Feb 9, 2018 6:52:01 GMT
One should always expect a hiccup when having this kind of work done. And it sounds like you have had a lot done. If this is the only issue that is causing a change in the charges, count yourself lucky. Pay a good workman for the work that is done no matter what the estimate was. Good workmen are hard to find and need all the encouragement they can get. Both you are getting a lesson that should have been learned already. Changing a professional relationship to a personal relationship has its drawbacks.
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Post by julieinsweden on Feb 9, 2018 7:31:31 GMT
He did NOT estimate or quote for more time. And now he is finish he is NOT charging you extra. You are in the clear.
If he had not told you as a "friend" then you would never have known he worked longer than he thought. A friend would have kept his mouth shut.
What is the hourly rate for skilled contractors? Here it is about 30-40 dollars. So he worked 30 hours longer than expected. 30 extra hours is a good lesson learnt. I would not pay.
How if you would like this relationship to continue and you think he would like it to continue after he has finished the work then I would consider half. But then do you really want to buy friendship.
Summary. I would not pay.
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Post by malibou on Feb 9, 2018 8:14:15 GMT
In my opinion what is right under the law isn't really relevant in this situation. This one is personal, and I think with all the work you've had done you would know if he were taking advantage. He is starting out. He underestimated, not on purpose. I would be inclined to give the $500, because he did the extra work, and it looks beautiful. Perhaps he found himself in a bind and figures had he not been working so much for you that he could have picked up extra work.
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Post by gar on Feb 9, 2018 10:07:10 GMT
What do you want the end result to be? You can ‘be right’ in that you’re not duty bound to pay but where will that leave you both? Do you want to help him grow his business and be able to recommend him, to keep him as a friend, to use his services again? If so then I would have a talk about it from the customer POV but agree to pay him the extra, or at least $500.
If you feel differently now that this has cropped up then refuse and take what comes.
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Deleted
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Jun 26, 2024 4:04:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 11:36:57 GMT
I don't know. But for all the work you have had done, you are very fortunate that this is the only big problem you have had with him. I normally am ready to kill some of the people I have had working in my house by the time they get through.
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maryannscraps
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Post by maryannscraps on Feb 9, 2018 11:50:03 GMT
I've had the same thing happen (without the close friendship part). Construction jobs always run into issues. I think that since he did do the work, and did it well, I'd pay him. It's not an outrageous amount of money for what he did. I paid my painter an extra $100 because it took so long to remove a wallpaper border. Neither of us realized it could possibly be so stuck on there.
I have no idea of what the legal answer is.
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sweetpeasmom
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Feb 9, 2018 12:43:50 GMT
He said if it were any other customer, he would be charging them an additional $1000. But because it is me I think he wants about another $500. . Is he saying he's going to charge you the $500 or you just think that's what he wants? Either way, it sucks that he didn't think to charge more. Lesson learned on him. You don't have to pay it. If you want to, that is up to you.
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Post by lisae on Feb 9, 2018 12:52:01 GMT
The part that sticks out to me is that he did not know to charge you more because they would take longer to install. I think this is a tough lesson on him. He now knows that small subway tile will take more time to install and should be at an increased charge. It sounds like you have given him a lot of business. The only thing he's out on the tile job is the extra time, so I think he shouldn't charge more. I agree. I can't tell you the number of times it took me longer to make a window treatment than I expected it to. Because I did the work here rather than the customer's home, they had no idea but it doesn't matter. Whatever I quoted was the final price - at least no more than the quote. If you want to tip him at the end of the job, that's up to you but it isn't necessary. It sounds like you have done a great deal for him already and that you will be raving about his work to others. If your referrals get him more jobs, then he learned his lesson and will gain more in the long run from a happy customer who didn't feel like she needed to spend more than the quote.
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Post by mikklynn on Feb 9, 2018 13:04:23 GMT
In my opinion what is right under the law isn't really relevant in this situation. This one is personal, and I think with all the work you've had done you would know if he were taking advantage. He is starting out. He underestimated, not on purpose. I would be inclined to give the $500, because he did the extra work, and it looks beautiful. Perhaps he found himself in a bind and figures had he not been working so much for you that he could have picked up extra work. This.
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Post by jenjie on Feb 9, 2018 13:33:40 GMT
I agree with those who asked, what do you want to happen moving forward? My bathroom came in a few thousand dollars more than anticipated. There was a lot I didn’t understand about the process, some miscommunication, etc. for instance, I found all the things I wanted and had him order them. I should have ordered them myself. I did all the legwork! But him ordering, and me changing my mind on some things, added to the cost.
At the end of the day, I need somebody I can trust. There was a snafu, but I do trust him. And the people that work for my contractor, the guy that’s doing the work at my house, is a personal friend. He wasn’t part of that initial estimate conversation, but he looks out for me. I just had him do another job and when the estimate came in, I asked my buddy if it sounds right.
I ended up emailing the contractor. I paid and told him I absolutely want to keep working with him, and spelled out what I need from him in the future. I need better communication. Explain things to me like I don’t know anything, because I don’t. There were some things that he should have taken into. account and didn’t, but at the end of the day the price he charged was fair for the work that was done.
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Post by peano on Feb 9, 2018 14:19:48 GMT
I'm kind of joking, but not really. If he has been a good communicator, regularly shows up to work when he says he will, and does meticulous, quality work (unlike oh so many contractors) it would be worth it to me to pay the extra. I think business relationships should be kept separate from social ones because as you are finding, it complicates things.
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Post by supersoda on Feb 9, 2018 14:26:38 GMT
There are too many missing pieces to be able to determine whether you have any potential legal liability. Did you agree on a lump-sum price or T&M? Was a specific tile spec'd in the quote? Did he give you the quote before or after you selected the tile? Do you live in a place where he can place a lien on your home if you don't pay everything that he claims he's owed? (Even if a lien isn't legitimate, it can be really difficult to remove once it's in place.) All of these things should be considered in determining how much you want to fight about this.
Change order requests are VERY common in construction contracting. When the relationship is good, the parties try to work it out and treat each other fairly. What do you think is fair here? Do you think you're being bilked, or do you think there was an honest mistake? If it's a mistake, do you think it's fair to benefit from that mistake?
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Post by littlemama on Feb 9, 2018 14:37:07 GMT
An excellent contractor is hard to find. I would probably give him the 500.
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TXMary
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Post by TXMary on Feb 9, 2018 14:40:23 GMT
He does good quality work and you can trust having him in your home. We would pay him the extra. Probably the $1000 but at least the $500. It's hard to find people who do a good job and are trustworthy. To us, that would be worth the extra money. Most jobs we have had done have run over so it wouldn't surprise me at all that a job of that size did too. Always good to have a contractor who does good work and that you can trust!
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momto4kiddos
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Post by momto4kiddos on Feb 9, 2018 15:02:36 GMT
An excellent contractor is hard to find. I would probably give him the 500. This, but i'd absolutely pay. There are too many crappy contractors out there who do inferior work or will rip you off. Sounds like you've found one who does great work. I would absolutely pay him.
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Post by papersilly on Feb 9, 2018 15:03:10 GMT
I would pay him. Yes it was his mistake but he is just starting out so it's understandable. I think it's a good gesture that may go a long way later if you need additional work. If you don't pay him, he may seem fine with it but I think it will change the dynamic of your working and personal relationship.
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garcia5050
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Post by garcia5050 on Feb 9, 2018 15:06:19 GMT
I've been in the exact same boat. We got slate tile in our shower and it was so heavy, it would crush the spacers. Our friend told us had never installed slate on a wall (plenty on floors), so he wasn't aware that he could only do 2 rows per day. He only charged $300 more but we gladly paid. Our shower came out awesome.
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freebird
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Post by freebird on Feb 9, 2018 15:08:17 GMT
I would pick paying $500, giving him a small lecture about it (mom) and keeping the friendship.
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Post by buddysmom on Feb 9, 2018 15:26:28 GMT
I've had a couple different situations with this type of thing.
In 2010(when hardly anyone was getting stuff done on their homes) we contracted to have about 1500 square feet of tile installed. About half of the area was carpet and half was tile. The carpet was easy to rip out but the tile was tedious and then it had to be perfectly level to install the large replacement tiles.
They gave me an all inclusive price. However the installers complained that it was much harder/time consuming than they expected and that they should get more money. It was really uncomfortable and I spoke to the store. They said that some jobs are easier than others and often you don't know until you start ripping it out. He said it all works out in the end for the installers with some jobs taking less time than expected but ours took longer. He said the installers should never have discussed this with me.
Then a few years later, we used the same company to have tile installed in another room that had carpet in it. They sent the same installers!! He remembered us. I was not home but my son was and the first thing this installer said was oh I remember this place, you didn't pay me enough on the last job. Never used them again.
A couple years ago we had our bathroom redone. Tile guy was really nice and good. But he found some rotted wood, needed a new window also which delayed him. He did everything except that area. I felt bad that he had us scheduled for a certain number of days and this messed up his schedule. He said no problem, let me know when it is fixed and I'll be back. I was so afraid that he would not and it would be a really small job to find someone else to do it (it had trim work, etc so we couldn't finish it ourselves). I was in contact with him and said PLEASE come back when it is ready.
He did. Had to set up his saws, all the equipment for about a two hour job. I had only held back a small amount so he could have just not showed. I paid him, then gave him a restaurant gift card for his extra work.
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Post by Really Red on Feb 9, 2018 15:31:42 GMT
I'd pay it. I'd not be happy, but I'd do it because he's doing the work. And sometimes we all make mistakes and I'd like to think someone wouldn't make me pay for mine.
On a slightly related note, I have the tile guy in doing tile in my bathroom right now. He told me he made $350,000 last year.
Yes he did.
[redacted]
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Rhondito
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Post by Rhondito on Feb 9, 2018 15:38:31 GMT
Pay him. He's done great work for you and it's not like he's trying to screw you over. You know it took him longer than he estimated and it's not because he was farting around - if that was the case it would be a different story, but it's not.
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Post by acd on Feb 9, 2018 15:44:13 GMT
I would pay him. You'll never regret doing the right thing. If you need him in the future, he'll remember how you treated him.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 9, 2018 15:49:33 GMT
An excellent contractor is hard to find. I would probably give him the 500. ![:yeahthat:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/yrGoHMAelQz8f2Qt0sjb.jpg) Since he did beautiful work and spent a lot more time than he anticipated which might have set him back on other projects, I would give him the $500 he is asking for. You knew going in that he was just starting out and the mistake was an honest one so I would give him a bit of grace on this. He could have rushed the job and did horrible work to cut his time and expense but he didn’t. He took the time and did it right and you have a lovely new bathroom to enjoy as a result. He is acknowledging that he would have charged anyone else more and he’s out the time he could have sold to another customer and that’s something he can’t ever get back. He is willing to concede half of what he would have charged for the error on his part, so for those reasons I would give him the $500.
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