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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 18, 2018 3:31:27 GMT
Personally, unless their actions and/or words are overtly racist, I try and give people the benefit of the doubt initially. I believe this about you.  My take on this is because historically (and even to a lesser degree) now race is the primary factor. My take is that race is almost without exception commented on and made to look like the primary factor. I have seen an incredible reduction in race being the primary factor in my lifetime, so I do not have the same take at all as you. But that's my experience and others have vastly different experiences. I agree that there are often better indicators of what makes our Spidey senses tingle that have nothing to do with race. But for some people, race alone will be enough to make them nervous/afraid/apprehensive. This was some years ago, but a black friend was coming to a book club meeting at a house on a rural-ish street for the first time. She accidentally went to the house next door and knocked on the door. She could tell people were home, but wasn't sure why anybody was answering, so went back to her car for the moment. Next thing she knows, the police are there with guns pointed at her telling her to get out of the car. They at first didn't believe she was going to a book club and eventually let her go without incident. It's hard to tell why they immediately called the cops and why the cops showed up with guns drawn, but I can't help but think race was a factor. We don't actually know for sure why those people responded as they did. The woman hardly sounds the least bit threatening yet an immediate call for police protection was made. Quite the dramatic overreaction. No doubt that there are plenty of racists around that would think this action was appropriate based solely on the woman's race.  Anyone would feel marginalized if this was the way the were treated on a regular basis. Just as an aside, did you read The Help by Kathryn Stockett? Your friend's experience could have been written seamlessly into the novel. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Feb 18, 2018 3:56:48 GMT
Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested for breaking and entering his own home. He is an older black man who uses a cane. Someone in his Harvard University neighborhood called the cops to report a black man breaking into the home. It was his home and race was the primary factor.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 4:05:24 GMT
This is probably way off topic but @anotherpea’s story about the incident at School reminded me of something. When we were in NYC this guy got on the train. He was dressed like he wanted to look like a thug. Except there was one thing ruining his street cred - an adorable little girl with her Doc McStuffins backpack. Any time I see a daddy engage with his kids, it warms me right up. (I loved it when dh did, I would watch or listen from the other room - those were the times he was most attractive to me.) And this guy was engaged.I thought, man you’re dressed like you’re trying to look tough, but you’re a softie with your little one. That reminds me of the meme with the tough looking biker dude and a little toddler with a toy phone that says, "I don't care how tough you think you are, when a toddler hands you a ringing toy phone, you're answering that thing." |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 18, 2018 4:07:21 GMT
Harvard Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested for breaking and entering his own home. He is an older black man who uses a cane. Someone in his Harvard University neighborhood called the cops to report a black man breaking into the home. It was his home and race was the primary factor. . At a total aside, I never connected the guy from Finding Your Roots with the Harvard break in. Carry on... |
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katybee
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Post by katybee on Feb 18, 2018 8:02:55 GMT
I don't doubt it was exactly as stated. I just wish they would have included information in the article about whether or not this happened in the same location and if the guns were identical. Give less wiggle room for people who don't want to admit that these things happen based on the color of skin alone. And I agree with the lady that suggested they were taking quite a risk doing this, and based on history, a much greater risk for the black participant. The videos were shot it least one year apart in different parts of the country. So I do not think it is accurate portrayal. I would like to see the same experiment done with more controlled measures. However, I think it would be a dangerous experiment for both a black and white man – but especially for a black man. |
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Post by 50offscrapper on Feb 18, 2018 8:33:41 GMT
Wasn’t there a “social experiment” a while back wher several black men walked diwn the street with guns in an open carry jurisdiction to see the response? IIRC, they were met with multiple concerned calls to law enforcement and were stopped and questioned. A similar group of white men did not get as much attention. Imagine four young armed black men (with legal open carry) walking into a convenience store together late at night. One, misinterpreted move could result in disaster. I mean, if trained law enforcement is going to overreact, how can you expect the minimum wage clerk not to do the same? Yes, many whites are afraid of black men. They might not always cross the street when they see a group of young black men approaching, but I can just about guarantee their hearts beat faster and adrenaline kicks in. I have worked with a lot of college-age black men, and this is their reality.I agree with this. And we can't just blame the white people for this reaction. I believe it has to do with context and experience. Some, SOME, black men WANT to be viewed this way. Most people are reasonable and kind and the black men that are both, I imagine, do not want to be. But some do. Just last week while I was in the hallway at school we had a group of older black male teens walking very slowly towards, I assume, their classes. They were already five minutes late. These particular young men come from a very rough neighborhood and some of them have already been to jail more than once. They range in age from 17 to 19. As they walk past two girls that were heading to the restroom, three of the boys surrounded the girls and thrust their chests at them, bowing up to intimidate. I called them out on it, they cackle and walk on. I followed the three to their first period where their case manager was waiting for them. We had a small discussion, which they (the three) laughed and one said that "they gotta let people know who be the boss around here." One of the kids had been suspended earlier in the year for intimidating some younger white boys by making threats. Final straw kind of thing. I was at his meeting to return where his mother flat out said that black men need to act intimidating so white people don't walk all over them. I'm betting that if someone did a social experiment where hospital visitors were walking down a hallway where a black doctor versus a white doctor (or just people in lab coats) approached, there wouldn't be an discernible difference in reactions. Even though I support open carry I admit I would take a second glance if I saw any group of men gathered together with assault rifles. And if I saw a group of men walking into a convenience store whooping it up or acting like they were nervous, I'd get worried. I have been around black men that were open carrying and did not get concerned at all. Those men were minding their own business, had their guns holstered, were in their 30s or older and in general looked like they had their crap together. I imagine most people would be far less nervous being around such men than a white guy who had a pistol in his hand, looked unkempt and was acting erratically. Actually, they have done experiments and black men in virtue of just being black get treated differently. Black doctors have said they have been pulled over just for driving a nice car. This is even more interesting, they get treated differently as patients even. www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/4/5/11369158/race-bias-medicine-pnas-study-black-patients |
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Post by gar on Feb 18, 2018 9:57:48 GMT
I loved it when dh did, I would watch or listen from the other room - those were the times he was most attractive to me.) I know exactly what you mean and I used to do the same thing  |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 18, 2018 13:42:24 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now?
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Feb 18, 2018 14:17:11 GMT
AnotherPea I see what you're saying and I think it is the same thing leftturnonly is saying. Another example being a woman who is raped shying away from men. Another understandable reaction, and one she hopefully is able to work on for her own peace of mind if nothing else. For me, the question becomes, how do we overcome this going forward? How do we teach ourselves to base our reactions on current actions not skin color? How about stop referring and sorting people by skin color first and foremost? "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." - MLK Until we live in that world... where people aren't judged by the color of their skin, we have to talk about race. We have to look at it , talk about it and try to understand and change our own prejudices. We all have them some maybe formed by specific incident, but often our prejudices come from not specific experiences we have, but from televison and movies, and false news. As a society we can't unpack it, we can't discuss it or change it if we don't talk about race. I too share MLK's dream and I believe that all the talk about race in America, as ugly and divisive as it can be, is opening the festering wound and hopefully we come out on the other side closer to that dream |
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Feb 18, 2018 15:39:25 GMT
I think there has been progress made in the US in regards to race. I think a large part of that has been forcing the issue by virtue of laws. I can guarantee you that if the Civil Rights Act had not passed, the changes that have resulted would NOT have otherwise happened. I think the laws improved the situation and people often fall into line with justice/legal trends. Not always, as prohibition has taught us. But just like prohibition, when you have a long history of behaviors, it is extremely difficult or impossible to change. Especially when people believe they derived benefits from the way it was before. Or not even believe it consciously, but understand the change subconsciously. I also believe that the presidential election has allowed us to see a nasty underbelly that has always been there. Prior to the enactment of laws, that racism and hatred was blatant and open. Then it diminished, but what remained often went underground or was well hidden. One reason it remained hidden was that so many people wanted to believe it was gone. (As an example of that, I have a colleague who teaches inclusivity and diversity classes and prior to the election she had a hard time in the classes with white folks because most of them refused to believe racism was still an issue in our society. They don't experience it, so they don't think it exists or they don't want to believe it exists, so it does not. After the election, she has not had that problem.) I also know that racism is systemic. As just one small example, Jacksonville, Florida and its documented pattern of ticketing pedestrians. Although 29% of the population is black, they receive 55% of the pedestrian tickets. The cops say that they issue pedestrian tickets due to pedestrian fatalities, but the tickets are not being issued where those fatalities occur. Instead, they are issued in predominately black and predominately poor neighborhoods. These tickets are expensive -- $62. If you don't pay the fine, your driver's license is suspended. Links if you are interested: www.pbs.org/newshour/show/black-pedestrians-are-disproportionately-issued-tickets-in-jacksonvillewww.jacksonville.com/news/metro/public-safety/2017-12-13/pedestrian-tickets-lead-hundreds-suspended-driver-s-licenseswww.jacksonville.com/walkingwhileblack/tickets |
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Post by hop2 on Feb 18, 2018 15:52:34 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now? well, when we do not fully enforce the ones we already have I can see where the sentiment might come from. But I also do not oppose new gun laws |
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Post by hop2 on Feb 18, 2018 15:56:50 GMT
I agree with this. And we can't just blame the white people for this reaction. I believe it has to do with context and experience. Some, SOME, black men WANT to be viewed this way. Most people are reasonable and kind and the black men that are both, I imagine, do not want to be. But some do. Just last week while I was in the hallway at school we had a group of older black male teens walking very slowly towards, I assume, their classes. They were already five minutes late. These particular young men come from a very rough neighborhood and some of them have already been to jail more than once. They range in age from 17 to 19. As they walk past two girls that were heading to the restroom, three of the boys surrounded the girls and thrust their chests at them, bowing up to intimidate. I called them out on it, they cackle and walk on. I followed the three to their first period where their case manager was waiting for them. We had a small discussion, which they (the three) laughed and one said that "they gotta let people know who be the boss around here." One of the kids had been suspended earlier in the year for intimidating some younger white boys by making threats. Final straw kind of thing. I was at his meeting to return where his mother flat out said that black men need to act intimidating so white people don't walk all over them. I'm betting that if someone did a social experiment where hospital visitors were walking down a hallway where a black doctor versus a white doctor (or just people in lab coats) approached, there wouldn't be an discernible difference in reactions. Even though I support open carry I admit I would take a second glance if I saw any group of men gathered together with assault rifles. And if I saw a group of men walking into a convenience store whooping it up or acting like they were nervous, I'd get worried. I have been around black men that were open carrying and did not get concerned at all. Those men were minding their own business, had their guns holstered, were in their 30s or older and in general looked like they had their crap together. I imagine most people would be far less nervous being around such men than a white guy who had a pistol in his hand, looked unkempt and was acting erratically. Actually, they have done experiments and black men in virtue of just being black get treated differently. Black doctors have said they have been pulled over just for driving a nice car. This is even more interesting, they get treated differently as patients even. www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/4/5/11369158/race-bias-medicine-pnas-study-black-patientsDepends on where the videos were taken. The article is actually incorrect it makes a general statement that walking around with guns is not restricted in the US but it is in some places. You can’t really even walk around with an airsoft gun in public in NJ 6abc.com/news/nj-actor-charged-for-using-prop-gun-in-film-without-permit/1259221/ |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 1:35:36 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now? By examining laws we have now and in the past, it's not hard to see that the focus of new laws is often misdirected. For example, the laws on the designs of gun stocks were completely ineffective, yet they were in effect for something like 10 years. Laws need to be created with exact & specific language, yet those who are screaming for new laws use incorrect terminology almost entirely. Any laws passed with that level of inaccuracy will do nothing but create chaos when trying to enforce them. Do not make the mistake of ever putting me in the no gun control category. I never have been and never will be. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know that there needs to be a serious understanding of the mechanics of guns, bullets, and the people who use them for any effective law to be created. If all the people who do nothing but complain spent that time educating themselves instead, we'd get to answers a whole lot sooner. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 1:37:59 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now? well, when we do not fully enforce the ones we already have I can see where the sentiment might come from. But I also do not oppose new gun laws Thank you. |
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Post by Merge on Feb 19, 2018 1:43:09 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now? By examining laws we have now and in the past, it's not hard to see that the focus of new laws is often misdirected. For example, the laws on the designs of gun stocks were completely ineffective, yet they were in effect for something like 10 years. Laws need to be created with exact & specific language, yet those who are screaming for new laws use incorrect terminology almost entirely. Any laws passed with that level of inaccuracy will do nothing but create chaos when trying to enforce them. Do not make the mistake of ever putting me in the no gun control category. I never have been and never will be. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know that there needs to be a serious understanding of the mechanics of guns, bullets, and the people who use them for any effective law to be created. If all the people who do nothing but complain spent that time educating themselves instead, we'd get to answers a whole lot sooner. Thank you for this insight. I think it might also be helpful if those who are already educated came forward with specific legislative suggestions rather than shutting down any talk of gun control. |
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zella
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Post by zella on Feb 19, 2018 1:53:52 GMT
I understand you finding the meme offensive. I don't. I find the TRUTH behind the meme offensive, and I do believe that if tens of thousands of black men went out and bought A-15s the white men who fight against any and all gun controls would suddenly be faced with something they fear even more than gun control, which is a heavily armed black populace. Gun control and racism are two different issues, but they do come together in certain ways.
Understand that this meme doesn't say anything about you. It doesn't say anything about me, either. I know my stand on gun control and it has nothing to do with race. I also know that I fight constantly to see and challenge my racist thoughts or beliefs and my white privilege. This meme is about people that the majority of us here despise. You aren't the problem, I'm not the problem. Yes?
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Post by redhead32 on Feb 19, 2018 2:19:51 GMT
I find it very presumptive to make statements about creating/new “useless” (gun control) laws —-how are we to know that they would be useless? What if changes DID help? What if they stopped the issue we have now? well, when we do not fully enforce the ones we already have I can see where the sentiment might come from. But I also do not oppose new gun laws This may have already been said, but I think what we need is UNIFORMITY of gun laws. The laws here in MN are different from SD. And this leads to the infamous "Chicago" type of argument, where guns are obtained legally elsewhere and brought into the area. If the laws were the same across all the states, it would be a start. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 2:45:06 GMT
I think it might also be helpful if those who are already educated came forward with specific legislative suggestions rather than shutting down any talk of gun control. I agree. But, it's not like this has been a country welcoming a diversity of opinion of late. I think a great many of us in the middle of the brawl are just hunkered down waiting for passions to cool down a bit. FWIW, I don't have any suggestions. I don't know what else can be done that isn't being done except, perhaps, even tighter enforcement. I know a great many people want to make particular weapons illegal, and maybe they are correct. However, they are going about it all wrong! What they think they are saying is entirely different from what they are literally saying. The media is especially responsible for this and I loathe them for it. Truly, I do. To recap - Automatic weapons are effectively illegal for private possession in the USA. None of these mass shootings have used automatic weapons. Assault weapons are for military use and are effectively illegal for private possession in the USA. None of these mass shootings have used assault weapons to my knowledge. Semi-automatic weapons are the bread and butter of the industry. They are not solely the black military-styled weapons that are so often in the news. This is the category of gun that any new laws would effect and this is where much of the problem lies as the large majority of the population does not want to create new laws for many weapons in this category. Yet, there is no distinction made by the passionate throngs demanding to "just do something." Massive overly-broad regulations are not going to happen because there is no reason for them other than raw emotion. So, it becomes imperative to separate the different semi-automatic weapons. What will make a difference here? The color of the gun? The material the gun is made from? If the stock of the gun is adjustable? We've already tried this approach in the past and it wasn't effective. How about how much ammunition a gun can hold? There are attachments that hold more ammunition that could be considered for newer regulations that wouldn't make any significant difference to a skilled, trained marksman but that would perhaps have an effect in a mass shooting spree. However... by definition, mass murderers aren't obeying the laws of the land. Improvised attachments could be devised even if mass-marketed ones weren't allowed to be sold. Still.... I wouldn't put that kind of legislation in the useless category as I do collapsible stocks as they have actual impact on the effectiveness of a weapon. Another area for consideration may possibly be the ammunition itself, but this would be one hell of a fight. Believe me, people are passionate about their ammunition and stockpile their preferences at the slightest whiff of change. I have firsthand knowledge of this, and frankly, it is a force to be reckoned with! Background checks are already performed by licensed gun sellers. That's on the NICS unit of the FBI to get correct. If there needs to be changes made to the background checks, that's at the FBI and I have no idea what new legislation could be done about that. One of the questions in the questionnaire that must be filled in before the check is made is about mental health. THIS is possibly the greatest weakness of the check, as we have HIPAA laws that protect individuals. But, that's really my conjecture and not my actual knowledge. I know firsthand that individuals have been tracked down by the FBI when they have attempted to purchase a weapon from a licensed dealer through these background checks, & I do also know that individuals are turned down and the pending sale has been made illegal by the FBI, so I know firsthand that these checks do have some effect. FWIW, I have only limited knowledge on this subject. What I have learned, however, has done nothing but show me how very dangerous this wild cry for gun control is. NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING drives people to buy more guns and ammunition than telling them that they are wrong for doing so. This whole "give up your guns and let the government protect you" is nothing but one giant red flag being waved. Sure, sure, sure.... that's not what people are saying. They just want more and better laws. But they leave out all specificity because if they did begin to become more specific they would be faced with the reality that this might not be as certain of their reasoning presently assumes. On a different area of focus..... if we begin to seriously examine the increasing isolation our citizens are feeling and begin to make real changes in how we handle this, we may not only increase the well-being and happiness levels we all feel, we may also begin to address the patterns of behavior of the people who have become these crazed shooters. That is an approach that has great potential for actual effective change, and one that would have far less resistance. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 2:55:49 GMT
where guns are obtained legally elsewhere and brought into the area We already have laws of who may buy what in different states. For example, a licensed Texas dealer may not sell to someone who is a resident of a state that does not allow it. It's complicated. There are charts that are posted that are subject to frequent change. Don't assume that an Illinois citizen is easily allowed to purchase a gun in another state because that is not always the case. Illinois has much stricter gun laws and I'd be surprised if they are in agreement with many other states - if any. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Feb 19, 2018 3:10:30 GMT
AnotherPea I see what you're saying and I think it is the same thing leftturnonly is saying. Another example being a woman who is raped shying away from men. Another understandable reaction, and one she hopefully is able to work on for her own peace of mind if nothing else. For me, the question becomes, how do we overcome this going forward? How do we teach ourselves to base our reactions on current actions not skin color? How about stop referring and sorting people by skin color first and foremost? "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." - MLK I don't think that describing someone as a young black man, or the black kid with the top hat, is judging anyone. It's OK to describe someone. The kid knows he's black. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 3:22:10 GMT
How about stop referring and sorting people by skin color first and foremost? "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." - MLK I don't think that describing someone as a young black man, or the black kid with the top hat, is judging anyone. It's OK to describe someone. The kid knows he's black. Yeah, but see, people aren't black or white. We're all shades of brown. I'm sensitive to color in general, so the exaggeration of real colors into black and white just annoys me. Think how much more accurate it would be to say that someone was the color of cafe au lait or pecan - but then it would make it far harder to generalize people into such neat little categories and we can't have that now, can we! |
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Post by PNWMom on Feb 19, 2018 3:48:08 GMT
Some states have gun laws others don’t. I was amazed when that infamous alt-right parade in Charlotsville took place to discover that it was legal for them to march armed. To me that is terribly intimidating and it had no other purpose than to intimidate or terrorize. I don’t understand why any civilian needs to be armed with an Assault weapon. Can you imagine if marchers at a Black Lives Matter event all showed up armed the same way? Or a DACA rally? I think it's safe to say the response - from law enforcement to the president - would be radically different. Yes. I marched last year in both the Seattle Womxn's march and the BLM march. Both peaceful, both with a lot of the same people. I was quite saddened to see the dramatically increased police presence at the BLM march, even though it was probably 10x smaller. I was 30+ weeks pregnant at the time with a biracial daughter and spent half the march in tears over the wonderful, supportive people I marched with who will accept my family and my daughter and the other half just utterly sad about all the police. |
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Post by Peace Sign on Feb 19, 2018 3:53:03 GMT
I don't think that describing someone as a young black man, or the black kid with the top hat, is judging anyone. It's OK to describe someone. The kid knows he's black. Yeah, but see, people aren't black or white. We're all shades of brown. I'm sensitive to color in general, so the exaggeration of real colors into black and white just annoys me. Think how much more accurate it would be to say that someone was the color of cafe au lait or pecan - but then it would make it far harder to generalize people into such neat little categories and we can't have that now, can we! I totally get that. But in the most innocent way, it is just a descriptor. |
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Post by PNWMom on Feb 19, 2018 3:53:15 GMT
This is probably way off topic but @anotherpea’s story about the incident at School reminded me of something. When we were in NYC this guy got on the train. He was dressed like he wanted to look like a thug. Except there was one thing ruining his street cred - an adorable little girl with her Doc McStuffins backpack. Any time I see a daddy engage with his kids, it warms me right up. (I loved it when dh did, I would watch or listen from the other room - those were the times he was most attractive to me.) And this guy was engaged.I thought, man you’re dressed like you’re trying to look tough, but you’re a softie with your little one. ...and then there are instances like my (black) husband and our adorable daughter going to her 6 month old appointment, where a woman blatantly and over the top obviously made her 2 kids stand up rather than take the empty seat next to him in the waiting room at the pediatrician's office. Because a black man (still in uniform since he came straight from work to take her to the appointment--he's a locksmith at a major medical center) with a baby is scary. There were several shocked gazes exchanged in the waiting room, because this is in face Seattle.....but it made him feel awful, like some sort of undesireable person. Not cool. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 3:59:55 GMT
Yeah, but see, people aren't black or white. We're all shades of brown. I'm sensitive to color in general, so the exaggeration of real colors into black and white just annoys me. Think how much more accurate it would be to say that someone was the color of cafe au lait or pecan - but then it would make it far harder to generalize people into such neat little categories and we can't have that now, can we! I totally get that. But in the most innocent way, it is just a descriptor. I know and accept that it is so without ever fully embracing the concept. Think how differently the news would be presented if the color of one's skin was left out. Without constant attention being paid to skin color, other things would need to be presented as important. Too simple a concept, though. They'd need to put a bit more thought into their presentations. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 19, 2018 4:00:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 4:58:28 GMT
By examining laws we have now and in the past, it's not hard to see that the focus of new laws is often misdirected. For example, the laws on the designs of gun stocks were completely ineffective, yet they were in effect for something like 10 years. Laws need to be created with exact & specific language, yet those who are screaming for new laws use incorrect terminology almost entirely. Any laws passed with that level of inaccuracy will do nothing but create chaos when trying to enforce them. Do not make the mistake of ever putting me in the no gun control category. I never have been and never will be. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know that there needs to be a serious understanding of the mechanics of guns, bullets, and the people who use them for any effective law to be created. If all the people who do nothing but complain spent that time educating themselves instead, we'd get to answers a whole lot sooner. Thank you for this insight. I think it might also be helpful if those who are already educated came forward with specific legislative suggestions rather than shutting down any talk of gun control. I have suggested that we enforce the laws in place by getting the manpower that was lacking. It was Joe Biden that said they can't enforce the very effective laws because they don't have the manpower. That was a long time ago. It's long past time time for the current administration to step up and fill those jobs, make the laws effective and save lives. That'd be a hell of a lot of success for him to tweet/brag about right there, alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 5:13:58 GMT
This is probably way off topic but @anotherpea’s story about the incident at School reminded me of something. When we were in NYC this guy got on the train. He was dressed like he wanted to look like a thug. Except there was one thing ruining his street cred - an adorable little girl with her Doc McStuffins backpack. Any time I see a daddy engage with his kids, it warms me right up. (I loved it when dh did, I would watch or listen from the other room - those were the times he was most attractive to me.) And this guy was engaged.I thought, man you’re dressed like you’re trying to look tough, but you’re a softie with your little one. ...and then there are instances like my (black) husband and our adorable daughter going to her 6 month old appointment, where a woman blatantly and over the top obviously made her 2 kids stand up rather than take the empty seat next to him in the waiting room at the pediatrician's office. Because a black man (still in uniform since he came straight from work to take her to the appointment--he's a locksmith at a major medical center) with a baby is scary. There were several shocked gazes exchanged in the waiting room, because this is in face Seattle.....but it made him feel awful, like some sort of undesireable person. Not cool. That IS awful and I can understand that it would make him feel awful at first, but hopefully he knows to put that right back where it belongs - on the awful woman who did that. And what she was teaching her children. A big part of me hopes that it was something about her being there because her kids were sick and she didn't want them infecting your baby. Not that I want her kids to be sick, but that I want there to be an innocent reason for doing that. |
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Post by jenjie on Feb 19, 2018 8:51:06 GMT
This is probably way off topic but @anotherpea’s story about the incident at School reminded me of something. When we were in NYC this guy got on the train. He was dressed like he wanted to look like a thug. Except there was one thing ruining his street cred - an adorable little girl with her Doc McStuffins backpack. Any time I see a daddy engage with his kids, it warms me right up. (I loved it when dh did, I would watch or listen from the other room - those were the times he was most attractive to me.) And this guy was engaged.I thought, man you’re dressed like you’re trying to look tough, but you’re a softie with your little one. ...and then there are instances like my (black) husband and our adorable daughter going to her 6 month old appointment, where a woman blatantly and over the top obviously made her 2 kids stand up rather than take the empty seat next to him in the waiting room at the pediatrician's office. Because a black man (still in uniform since he came straight from work to take her to the appointment--he's a locksmith at a major medical center) with a baby is scary. There were several shocked gazes exchanged in the waiting room, because this is in face Seattle.....but it made him feel awful, like some sort of undesireable person. Not cool. I am so sorry. 😔 could it be that she was afraid her two kids would start fighting over the one chair? I didn’t mention color, but the man and little girl on the train were black. I noticed color, but the things that grabbed my attention were how he appeared to want to present himself, and his interaction with his daughter that squashed the stereotype. And I did interact with them in some way - a smile, a wave, probably a comment about his cute kid. I’ll be honest, after I typed out the post you quoted, I’ve been thinking. I would have had the same initial reaction (thug - I’m not sure if that’s the right word) if he was white. because of how he was dressed (his “uniform”, if you will), not because of his skin color. I gave this quite a bit of thought. And I wondered, what if it’s just a fashion choice, not a way of life? |
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Post by Peace Sign on Feb 19, 2018 13:56:25 GMT
...and then there are instances like my (black) husband and our adorable daughter going to her 6 month old appointment, where a woman blatantly and over the top obviously made her 2 kids stand up rather than take the empty seat next to him in the waiting room at the pediatrician's office. Because a black man (still in uniform since he came straight from work to take her to the appointment--he's a locksmith at a major medical center) with a baby is scary. There were several shocked gazes exchanged in the waiting room, because this is in face Seattle.....but it made him feel awful, like some sort of undesireable person. Not cool. I am so sorry. 😔 could it be that she was afraid her two kids would start fighting over the one chair? I didn’t mention color, but the man and little girl on the train were black. I noticed color, but the things that grabbed my attention were how he appeared to want to present himself, and his interaction with his daughter that squashed the stereotype. And I did interact with them in some way - a smile, a wave, probably a comment about his cute kid. I’ll be honest, after I typed out the post you quoted, I’ve been thinking. I would have had the same initial reaction (thug - I’m not sure if that’s the right word) if he was white. because of how he was dressed (his “uniform”, if you will), not because of his skin color. I gave this quite a bit of thought. And I wondered, what if it’s just a fashion choice, not a way of life? The statement saying this man wants to dress like a thug bothered me. First, I hate the word thug. But you have no idea why the man was dressed that way. And just because its thuggish to you doesn't mean anything. Fact is, it's a way to dress. Just like my parents didn't get holy pants and I don't get emo. |
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