Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 6:46:23 GMT
So now, in addition to expecting teachers to teach and be all-but-licensed child psychologists/psychiatrists, as we do now, we will expect them to become expert marksmen, "read" potentially criminal antisocial behavior, etc. And lets not forget to maintain all these skills with frequent training. Good luck finding rational people wanting to teach. And good luck finding rational parents wanting to put their children in buildings were guns are being toted around by non-professionals. A gun safe? Sure, put the guns in a safe. Have the teachers leave their students during the emergency, run to a safe and grab guns and then, in a panic, start running through the halls with guns. That'll make the kids feel safe. From what I hear and read, the majority of parents will have problems with teachers handling guns, regardless of where the guns are kept. Teachers teach. IF it's decided that guns are NECESSARY on school campuses, then hire *weapons experts* to secure campuses. We ask far too much of our teachers as it is. No one has to "read" any behavior. You see a person shooting other people, you make it stop as soon as possible. No "reading" necessary. No one is saying that. That's why I said, the gun would more than likely be in a gun safe in the room in case of an active shooter... You do have a point there. But as a cost effective measure, IF certain teachers are willing, trained and capable it might be the answer to saving lives.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 6:49:39 GMT
So what will the rules of engagement for armed teachers be? You can shoot anyone you see with a gun? Or do they have to fire at someone first? What if they are firing in the air but not at anyone?What about a student brandishing a knife? Scissors? What if a teacher thinks they are reaching into their pocket/coat/backpack for a weapon? For heavens sake trained law enforcement professionals make these split second decisions and unarmed people are killed. What if a student is brandishing a BB gun? Paintball gun? Airsoft gun? Toy gun? I believe the school in Florida had an armed resources officer, and they were not the one who ended the shooting. I would think it would be restricted to an active shooter situation only.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 6:54:45 GMT
A Columbine survivor wants to make it legal to protect the kids from a deadly shooter. " Colorado House Minority Leader Patrick Neville, who attended Columbine High School at the time of the 1999 mass shooting, has again introduced legislation to remove limitations on concealed carry in K-12 schools. Mr. Neville, who has introduced the bill annually since he was elected in 2014, said the current law “creates a so-called gun free zone in every K-12 public school. This act would allow every law-abiding citizens who holds a concealed carry permit, issued from their chief law-enforcement officer, the right to carry concealed in order to defend themselves and most importantly our children from the worst-case scenarios,” Mr. Neville said in a statement." Seems like this would muddy the waters even more, if anyone who has a conceal and carry is allowed to be in the school carrying a weapon. It could. And there's no guarantee that anyone would be there with a gun at the crucial time. That's why having guns available and people trained to use them in the case of an active shooter might really be something to consider.
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Post by AussieMeg on Feb 21, 2018 7:08:44 GMT
Highly trained police officers have been known to shoot and kill unarmed innocent people before. There is a HUGE risk that relatively untrained teachers could shoot and kill a student. Can you imagine the uproar?! If I were a teacher there is no way I would want to open myself up to possible litigation by having a gun in my possession. Not to mention that I, as a 5'2" woman, could easily be overpowered if anyone wanted to take the gun from me. PS. I am horrified at what you have had to endure as a teacher.
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Post by katiejane on Feb 21, 2018 7:24:29 GMT
Highly trained police officers have been known to shoot and kill unarmed innocent people before. There is a HUGE risk that relatively untrained teachers could shoot and kill a student. Can you imagine the uproar?! If I were a teacher there is no way I would want to open myself up to possible litigation by having a gun in my possession. Not to mention that I, as a 5'2" woman, could easily be overpowered if anyone wanted to take the gun from me. PS. I am horrified at what you have had to endure as a teacher. This is where I am too.
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Post by jlynnbarth on Feb 21, 2018 8:07:34 GMT
What do teachers feel about possibly having a stun gun or mace instead of a gun? I know it’s something a couple of teachers I personally know would be comfortable with. They would never want the responsibility of having a gun and being in the position of needing to shoot someone, but they both say they wouldn’t be adverse to stunning someone or spraying someone to give enough time to possibly get the “shooter” subdued. They both felt that even if they missed, at least it might distract the shooter and if they accidentally hit an innocent bystander it wouldn’t be deadly. They would recover. Our schools have an armed resource officer and it might give them time to get to the shooter since you never know where a shooter will be in the school. If the resource officer is on the first floor and the shooter is on the 2nd, it could take a minute or two to even be in the same vicinity.
It’s just a thought that we talked about that hadn’t been brought up. It’s crappy we have to even think about it.
Today at work we had a representative from the school that had a shooter in last Sept come in and get information on security film for the windows in the doors at the school. It won’t stop a bullet, but the film will hold the broken glass together. They are hoping it will give a few more seconds for everyone to get to a safe space. This is the 3rd school we’ve had inquiries from. We’ve had churches inquire recently also.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 9,975
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Feb 21, 2018 10:47:51 GMT
My district is thinking of increasing class size in order to save money. Just where is the money and training coming from in order to arm teachers? Because I’m not going to trust their own guns or their own training. Where are they keeping these guns to keep them safe from the children? On themselves? While working with children?
It’s a ludicrous idea.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Feb 21, 2018 11:16:50 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 11:28:18 GMT
I can't get my thought around the fact that it is being considered let alone be a valid deterrent or a solution. I just can't!
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Post by oliquig on Feb 21, 2018 11:35:20 GMT
A teacher in Utah was carrying concealed and her gun went off while she was on the toilet and she shot herself in the leg. A professor in Idaho was carrying on campus, and shot himself in the foot when his gun accidentally discharged. What could have happened if these guns accidentally discharged in the classroom? And someone doesn't need to be strong to overpower someone, either. Too many things can go wrong. Just a bad idea all around... If it's locked up in a gun safe in the classroom, it's not going to just "go off". Schools can barely buy paper. Now their FM going to have to budget for guns, gun safes, training, not to mention night guards, as now there are several fire arms on school grounds that we don't want stolen by stupid teenagers. Where are we getting this money?
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 21, 2018 11:37:43 GMT
A teacher has their hands full and their mind occupied with many different duties at any moment in time. Heck of a mindset to have when you're suddenly pushed into being responsible to kill or subdue an armed shooter. There may be some that have extensive military or law enforcement training that may be able to switch gears that quickly, but the typical teacher could not. Honestly, freecharlie, I had no idea you've had to endure so much in your classes. :-( There has to be a place between depending on typical teachers to disarm active shooters and gun-free zones. Maybe the idea of trained teachers having stun guns, tasers or even rubber bullets that someone posting before me mentioned has merit.
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Post by Merge on Feb 21, 2018 11:58:26 GMT
Such expensive ridiculousness to want to turn our schools into war zones when we could just stop selling guns to people who cannot show they are fit to own one.
It's not a difficult concept, unless you're bought and paid for by the NRA and the gun lobby. There is no good reason why an unstable person in our country can walk into Academy and walk out 5 minutes later with a gun and enough ammunition to kill hundreds. This person could walk in ranting and foaming at the mouth, and under current law, the salesperson could not refuse him the gun. How does this make sense?
If the government has some extra money lying around to pay security guards, or to buy guns and ongoing training for teachers, I'd like them to send some of that our way so we don't have 20% staff reductions here next year. Classes of 50+ at the high school level are not safe, but that's what we're facing. Guess our government is only concerned about student safety when they have the opportunity to buy guns for teachers.
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Post by shescrafty on Feb 21, 2018 11:59:52 GMT
I personally do not know if one teacher in my school that wants to be armed. The idea that suddenly I would become a good marksman and add another gun into a scary scenario is madness. School systems have large class sizes and teachers who are already overworked and underpaid. I buy supplies for my classroom EVEEY WEEK and suddenly the school system has money for guns and training and safes? Give me a break that is idiotic.
Arm teachers with Smaller class sizes so they can get to know their students better. Arm schools with more counselors and school psychologists so that they can come in and see warning signs instead of just being there to test kids and IEP meetings. Arm schools with funding for after school activities so that kids have more options about where to go and what to do.
More guns are NOT the answer. The more guns the more risks. That has been proven over and over.
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katybee
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,610
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Feb 21, 2018 12:16:03 GMT
We are already asked to do TOO MUCH. We are teachers, surrogate mothers, nurses, counselors, referees, data analysts...
It is ALREADY emotionally draining. Now because you are unwilling to pass meaningful gun control or spend the money to put TRAINED armed security guards in schools, you want us to take on that role, as well. It’s too much.
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purplebee
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,955
Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Feb 21, 2018 12:25:02 GMT
I am a lunch lady in a small rural school. My husband and son are both responsible, well-taught gun owners who hunt. We have no semi-automatic weapons. I am not a gun fan,and do not shoot, but am completely confident in their ability to use and properly secure their guns.
The day that any staff members other than our resource officers are required to carry a gun is the day I end my 18-year career with my district, for many of the reasons stated above. I personally know of way too many people who have concealed carry permits who should not be armed.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,831
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Feb 21, 2018 12:33:57 GMT
Such expensive ridiculousness to want to turn our schools into war zones when we could just stop selling guns to people who cannot show they are fit to own one.It's not a difficult concept, unless you're bought and paid for by the NRA and the gun lobby. There is no good reason why an unstable person in our country can walk into Academy and walk out 5 minutes later with a gun and enough ammunition to kill hundreds. This person could walk in ranting and foaming at the mouth, and under current law, the salesperson could not refuse him the gun. How does this make sense? A couple of days ago, my son was joking about buying a gun. I told him that yes, he could buy one and it would be entirely legal since he's an adult. He thought that it was a ridiculous thing because who would want someone like him walking around with a weapon? And yet...he could get one. He's legally blind. There are no restrictions on blind people buying guns, which seems kind of crazy as well. Only in America is the obvious solution - don't sell guns to people who really shouldn't have guns - seen as crazy talk. I find it odd that felons who want to regain their voting rights after completing their sentences have to jump through hoops (Why? Because it's 'too dangerous' to let them vote?) but we just made it easier for the mentally ill to purchase weapons. Why is someone voting considered dangerous enough to warrant taking action to stop it, but buying a weapon is considered perfectly reasonable?
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,248
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Feb 21, 2018 12:57:38 GMT
Not sure what this has to do with Russian bots? And to allow carry concealed at schools for parents... I think that's crazy. A trained officer maybe. I was showing a Columbine survivor was for it. He's a real human being who went through this horror, not a Russian bot. If you have a concealed carry permit, you've gone through training. You have gone through very basic training, which varies by state. You have NOT gone through training that equips you to engage a shooter (or multiple shooters) in a situation where there is mass chaos. How many hours of training do police officers go through to be able to do this? And once trained, they have to do retraining on a regular basis to keep their skills up to date. Are these armed teachers going to be required to have similar training? Are they going to be paid extra to keep skills up to date? Or is “security” going to be added to the long list of things teachers are expected to provid for their students out of the goodness of their hearts and their own wallets? A gun in the hands of an untrained shooter who is unprepared to make split second life or death decisions will do more harm than good.
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,948
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Feb 21, 2018 13:17:58 GMT
I trust teachers to teach. I do not trust them to act appropriately with a gun in a crisis situation. As a parent, I am completely against it. Police officers train and train and train again to deal with these situations. Teachers do not. I do not want guns in my schools, with the exception of law enforcement.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 21, 2018 13:28:55 GMT
Seems like this would muddy the waters even more, if anyone who has a conceal and carry is allowed to be in the school carrying a weapon. It could. And there's no guarantee that anyone would be there with a gun at the crucial time. That's why having guns available and people trained to use them in the case of an active shooter might really be something to consider. So, we need more people with guns to protect from the people with guns that we let go into the school with guns legally. Makes sense. Not.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 21, 2018 14:06:21 GMT
I personally do not know if one teacher in my school that wants to be armed. The idea that suddenly I would become a good marksman and add another gun into a scary scenario is madness. School systems have large class sizes and teachers who are already overworked and underpaid. I buy supplies for my classroom EVEEY WEEK and suddenly the school system has money for guns and training and safes? Give me a break that is idiotic. Arm teachers with Smaller class sizes so they can get to know their students better. Arm schools with more counselors and school psychologists so that they can come in and see warning signs instead of just being there to test kids and IEP meetings. Arm schools with funding for after school activities so that kids have more options about where to go and what to do. More guns are NOT the answer. The more guns the more risks. That has been proven over and over. Bravo!
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Feb 21, 2018 14:07:45 GMT
If you have a concealed carry permit, you've gone through training. That is unequivocally false. It varies from state to state (which is part of the problem). The fact that I have a concealed carry permit means nothing more than that I had $35 to give to the sheriff's department. I think there are some states (Kansas?) that require you to take a written safety test and go to the range with an instructor to prove you know how to use a weapon before you're issued a permit - I think that is something that should be standard across the board. ETA: I think arming teachers is a horrible idea for many of the reasons already covered. How about we start by not selling AR-15s to some 19 year old emo kid who's publicly threatened to shoot up a school? That'd be a logical start before we start going all wild west and giving everyone and their momma a weapon of mass destruction.
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Post by pierogi on Feb 21, 2018 14:11:42 GMT
I can't get my thought around the fact that it is being considered let alone be a valid deterrent or a solution. I just can't! It’s both absurd and disastrous on its face. I can’t take anyone defending it seriously.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Feb 21, 2018 14:15:40 GMT
It amazes how many people think that in the event of a shooting, where chaos will no doubt reign supreme, that just because they have a gun they’re going to turn into John Wick.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 21, 2018 14:16:45 GMT
Not only for all the reasons listed, but also because think about this for one second. How many of the school shooters are former or current students that attend/ed the very schools they shot up? What teacher would ever want to be put in the position of having to face down an armed student that they personally know and might have taught and actually shoot to kill that student? Those in law enforcement and the military are trained to handle those kinds of potentially deadly encounters and to act without hesitation regardless of who is in the crosshairs. I don’t think it would be fair to expect (even on a volunteer basis) school teachers to take on this responsibility. Teachers already have so much on their plates as it is with school funding continually being chipped away for all the stuff that is actually in their job description. If you're faced with deciding between just watching that student kill your other students or putting a stop to it, hopefully you'll be able to put a stop to it. But what teacher, all of whom have spent years learning how to best teach and nurture children, would want to put themselves in the middle of that situation? Not a single teacher that I personally know would ever be willing to do that. Not one, and I know a LOT of teachers all the way from pre-k through professor. I’m thinking it would be a pretty tough sell.
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Post by annaintx on Feb 21, 2018 14:17:13 GMT
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Post by pierkiss on Feb 21, 2018 14:19:29 GMT
I suspect if this becomes some kind of mandatory thing, that teachers will leave in droves. I do not have a single teacher friend who is in favor of this.
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Post by melanell on Feb 21, 2018 14:19:58 GMT
OP, I hear your concerns and questions, agree with them, and have even more of my own. I truly don't believe that teachers carrying loaded weapons is the logical route to take in trying to solve this problem.
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rickmer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,185
Jul 1, 2014 20:20:18 GMT
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Post by rickmer on Feb 21, 2018 14:26:47 GMT
imho, it's a ludicrous suggestion.
more guns is schools in not the answer.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:06:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 14:30:17 GMT
What US peer nations have: Violent Movies/Video Games Mental Illness Legal Abortion Secular Society
What US peer nations don't have: Easy access to assault weapons Armed Teachers Mass Shootings
Amazing how our peer nations manage to make it through life w/o armed securi-teachers, isn't it?
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:06:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 14:31:36 GMT
ps 
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