georgiapea
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Sept 11, 2014 4:38:43 GMT
Yes, but DH is opposed. I do feel it should be used only for certain crimes.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama

I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,412
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Sept 11, 2014 11:10:01 GMT
Absolutely not. The Timothy Evans/ John Christie/ 10 Rillington Place case, and the awful miscarriage of justice in the UK many years ago, tells me all I need to know to I form my opinion.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Sept 11, 2014 11:26:15 GMT
You have to trust your government a whole lot to trust that it is good at executing only the guilty. I have been contemplating lately how it is often the same people (Republicans), who generally do not trust that government does anything (from education to healthcare) well, exhibit a high level of trust in the government's ability to kill. Excellent point!
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 11, 2014 11:56:15 GMT
No.
Lots of reasons why I don't support the death penalty. I took a sociology class a million years ago and one of the classes talked about the death penalty and it's use as a deterrent for further crime. If the death penalty is supposed to be applied as both a punishment and as a deterrent for future crimes, it doesn't work. As like parenting, if the consequence does not immediately follow the crime, it loses in potency as a punishment the further away from the transgression it moves. Our judicial system allows for appeals (rightly so) in order to attempt to take away any doubt of innocence or guilt. But the further away from the specific crime, the less the punishment is connected (as it relates to deterrence) it becomes.
Additional problems come into play-disproportionate application to the poor, racial minorities and lower educated persons. Whether or not by design or inherent and unrecognized bias, those lower the socio-economic demographic are disproportionately represented. Biases allow for innocent people to found guilty, the lower socio-economic demographic to receive harsher sentences than those perceived to be of a higher demographic.
Our judicial system is meant to be blind, but when you use real people as a jury, those people have their own life experiences and that shapes their thoughts and biases in ways that they don't even really understand. Those people are the ones who determine the fate of the person accused of the crime and can be influenced by our past (good, bad and indifferent.) While we strive to be objective and impartial, it is impossible to leave our interior landscape behind.
Hopefully that makes sense, I have only had one cup of coffee and have been up since 5 (how does that happen?!?) and I am hoping that it doesn't come out all jumbled up and a pile of hookey. LOL
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 11:59:02 GMT
I think that some criminals deserve the death penalty, but I don't trust our justice system to handle it fairly and efficiently. I read too many stories of innocent people being exonerated after years on death row, and they're the lucky ones who weren't actually killed. I don't think it's a deterrent with any effect on real criminals. Regarding the bold sentence... I do not feel that I'm qualified to determine the deserved consequence to one's crime(s). Accepting that, I can't support the death penalty. Pretty simple equation for me. To clarify, I'm opposed to the death penalty. But I do believe in evil. I feel like death should be the punishment for some evil acts, but I cannot accept that punishment being meted out by our (or any) justice system. I agree with you in that I don't think I'm qualified to determine that punishment, and neither do I think anyone else is. Can I just add that I'm really glad this thread has been so civil -- I appreciate the thoughtful answers that everyone has posted.
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Post by gailoh on Sept 11, 2014 12:09:27 GMT
Yes...and as for why...ask the person or persons they harmed ,tortured or killed...oh we can't they are dead some of them...while this person on death row has rights and the victims don't...
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Sept 11, 2014 12:25:05 GMT
I hope I don't start the first sh!tstorm on this thread because it is truly not my intention, but I've seen it mentioned a few times that the DP is handed out more frequently to the poor and unwhite. Do you believe that's truly a bias in the justice system, or is it possible that statistically, that's the segment of the population that commits the most crime? It seems to me that there have been many white criminals sentenced to death.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 11, 2014 12:30:41 GMT
I hope I don't start the first sh!tstorm on this thread because it is truly not my intention, but I've seen it mentioned a few times that the DP is handed out more frequently to the poor and unwhite. Do you believe that's truly a bias in the justice system, or is it possible that statistically, that's the segment of the population that commits the most crime? It seems to me that there have been many white criminals sentenced to death. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't think it is a bias built into the system, I think it is OUR (the general public) built in preconceptions and biases. It is not an overt "us vs. them" thought process, but rather a function of our life experiences, upbringing, education, what we watch, read, listen to, what kind of friends we have, the community in which we live in...all of it. Those are the things that shape individuals and make us who we are. We are not impartial people. It isn't that we don't want to be, it is that we *can't* be. It is impossible. We are a sum of all our experience.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 12:51:09 GMT
Yes. And I think it should be carried out immediately after the appeal is lost. So you (and the others who have made similar statements) couldn't care less about the number of Death Row convicts who have been completely cleared by the Innocence Project and similar efforts? I do care. But I believe in a justice system that you are innocent until proven guilty and when found guilty according to ALL evidence, including DNA testing, TWICE, I feel like it's done. Do mistakes happen, of course, we are only human. But then again, life isn't fair, is it?
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Sept 11, 2014 13:10:28 GMT
Right off the bat I want to say no, I don't. But I have never been in the position where a family member was murdered so who's to say my opinion would not change if I was put in that position.
I know that a verdict and sentence does not ever end the pain and suffering a family goes through. They often have to relive it when there are parole hearings, it brings everything to the surface again. I hate that our system allows that to happen to families.
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Post by lbp on Sept 11, 2014 13:12:04 GMT
Yes!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 13:31:34 GMT
So you (and the others who have made similar statements) couldn't care less about the number of Death Row convicts who have been completely cleared by the Innocence Project and similar efforts? I do care. But I believe in a justice system that you are innocent until proven guilty and when found guilty according to ALL evidence, including DNA testing, TWICE, I feel like it's done. Do mistakes happen, of course, we are only human. But then again, life isn't fair, is it? Life isn't fair? You can't be serious.
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smartypants71
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,992
Location: Houston, TX
Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Sept 11, 2014 13:51:09 GMT
Absolutely not. It is barbaric and ineffective. If it were a deterrent, we (Texas) wouldn't have the highest number of inmates on death row.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Sept 11, 2014 13:54:45 GMT
I am against it. I don't think the government should kill. I think too many innocent people have been killed. It just makes me super uncomfortable. That being said, executing sex offenders/pedophiles would be just fine with me... So, I'm obviously conflicted about this topic. This is exactly how I feel too.
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Post by ntsf on Sept 11, 2014 14:12:08 GMT
I worked on alcatraz and thought and read a lot about crime and punishment. for many of the the reasons listed...I am against the death penalty. we are humans and make mistakes...so the state should not be put into the place of making ultimate mistakes. our justice system is not fair and impartial.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 14:51:18 GMT
Do mistakes happen, of course, we are only human. But then again, life isn't fair, is it?  Holy shit. Are you really that cavalier about putting an innocent person to death?
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 11, 2014 15:11:46 GMT
I am against the death penalty. I just think it's morally wrong to murder someone, even when they committed a violent crime. And I do think there are some people who are pure evil, but I don't think we, as a society, should lower ourselves to their level.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Sept 11, 2014 15:20:31 GMT
I'm against it but not because I have some noble belief that everyone deserves life (although, I admire people who do believe that). If someone killed one of my children I would have no issue killing the bastard myself.
I'm against it in part because I would fear executing someone who was innocent but mostly because there is no way I want my government to have the power to kill its own citizens.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 15:26:25 GMT
I don't agree with the too expensive part. No more expensive than keeping someone in jail for life. As the wife of a former CO, I can say that some people deserve the death penalty.
Ann
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama

La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Sept 11, 2014 15:36:52 GMT
I don't agree with the too expensive part. No more expensive than keeping someone in jail for life. As the wife of a former CO, I can say that some people deserve the death penalty.
Ann
It's a lot more expensive: link - the link is from a website with an obvious bias but the studies backing up the assertions are linked.
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Sept 11, 2014 15:55:45 GMT
I was in favor of the death penalty for many years. There are still times when my outrage and knee jerk reaction over horrific deeds comitted by some people make me want to "hang them high". However, I changed my opinion on the death penalty after becoming familiar with the The Innocence Project. Not everyone on death row is guilty of the crime they are accsued of. Our justice system has flaws.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Sept 11, 2014 16:00:48 GMT
No. I know that this will turn into a big screaming match, so I will make my points very brief, and then I'll tiptoe out of here... Government should not be in the business of killing citizens. The US is the only industrialized nation in the world that has the death penalty. We are in the company of places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and Egypt. It is abominable. People on death row have been killed and then proven innocent. This is a mistake that can't be fixed. There is no safe margin of error, even if it was only one person. Japan is certainly an industrialized nation. Having said that, I don't support the death penalty. I do think that some people are so evil, it's hard to imagine them living a life of relative ease in prison. If someone tortured and killed one of my loved ones, I am not sure I could restrain myself from issuing the ultimate punishment myself. I fully acknowledge the barbaric desire within me. But as a government program run by humans, it is flawed. I can't call for a quicker process, as ultimately the government does need to ensure innocent people aren't put to death. But the process becomes so expensive and flawed, it's utterly ineffective. I think life in prison with no parole is ultimately better for our society as a whole - although I would like to see a bit less comfort in prison. Although I do realize that it just makes life more difficult for the correctional officers tasked with keeping order.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 16:15:42 GMT
Do mistakes happen, of course, we are only human. But then again, life isn't fair, is it?  Holy shit. Are you really that cavalier about putting an innocent person to death? Of course I'm not totally disposing of an innocent persons life! Did I not say they went through two trials and all evidence was examined, used, etc and they were found guilty twice? Did you forget I mentioned that? No, you zeroed in on blew everything else I said out of the water. And yes, life isn't fair, and yes, I am serious. It wasn't fair for the person who's life was taken from them in the murder. It wasn't fair. It's not fair that some people end up with diseases and others don't. It's not fair that if two people have cancer, one live and one dies. We are human and we have flaws..but we do the best we can and hope that we make the right decisions for the just outcome.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 11, 2014 16:40:29 GMT
Yes.
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Post by katieanna on Sept 11, 2014 17:09:19 GMT
Yes. I think if it was actually carried out when sentenced it would be a deterent. It also guarantees that the criminal will not commit the crime again. So many killers, sex offenders and pedophiles are released now its almost a joke to even sentence them. Yes, I agree...but punishing a potentially innocent person bothers me a lot. I think the DP should be used for those who've been proven (beyond the shadow of a doubt) to have committed the crime and for the crimes as Kim stated above. This is really a hot button issue and I don't know if there is one answer that would fit every situation.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Sept 11, 2014 17:22:47 GMT
 Holy shit. Are you really that cavalier about putting an innocent person to death? Of course I'm not totally disposing of an innocent persons life! Did I not say they went through two trials and all evidence was examined, used, etc and they were found guilty twice? Did you forget I mentioned that? No, you zeroed in on blew everything else I said out of the water. And yes, life isn't fair, and yes, I am serious. It wasn't fair for the person who's life was taken from them in the murder. It wasn't fair. It's not fair that some people end up with diseases and others don't. It's not fair that if two people have cancer, one live and one dies. We are human and we have flaws..but we do the best we can and hope that we make the right decisions for the just outcome. Two trials and two guilty verdicts can still be wrong. We have executed people who were innocent. It's not a "right decision for the just outcome" when you kill an innocent person in exchange for a crime he didn't commit.
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Sept 11, 2014 17:23:50 GMT
No. I know that this will turn into a big screaming match, so I will make my points very brief, and then I'll tiptoe out of here... Government should not be in the business of killing citizens. The US is the only industrialized nation in the world that has the death penalty. We are in the company of places like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and Egypt. It is abominable. People on death row have been killed and then proven innocent. This is a mistake that can't be fixed. There is no safe margin of error, even if it was only one person. Japan is certainly an industrialized nation. Having said that, I don't support the death penalty. I do think that some people are so evil, it's hard to imagine them living a life of relative ease in prison. If someone tortured and killed one of my loved ones, I am not sure I could restrain myself from issuing the ultimate punishment myself. I fully acknowledge the barbaric desire within me. But as a government program run by humans, it is flawed. I can't call for a quicker process, as ultimately the government does need to ensure innocent people aren't put to death. But the process becomes so expensive and flawed, it's utterly ineffective. I think life in prison with no parole is ultimately better for our society as a whole - although I would like to see a bit less comfort in prison. Although I do realize that it just makes life more difficult for the correctional officers tasked with keeping order. I guess I should have said "Western." I don't think, for the most part, this is the company we should be keeping--Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia.
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Sept 11, 2014 17:24:17 GMT
Yes I do
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Post by katieanna on Sept 11, 2014 17:27:51 GMT
I do care. But I believe in a justice system that you are innocent until proven guilty and when found guilty according to ALL evidence, including DNA testing, TWICE, I feel like it's done. Do mistakes happen, of course, we are only human. But then again, life isn't fair, is it? Life isn't fair? You can't be serious. Are you saying that life IS fair?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:47:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2014 17:28:53 GMT
Life isn't fair? You can't be serious. Are you saying that life IS fair? Um no but I think that is a flippant response to those of us that are talking about how many people on death row even today are being found innocent.
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