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Post by fuji on Mar 8, 2018 1:59:16 GMT
Our 14-year-old shih tzu has been showing signs of dementia for the past 9 months. He has always had anxiety, but this is different. He exhibits about 90% of symptoms of dog dementia. He sleeps all day and starts wandering around the house at about 7:30 p.m. Constant movement with no sense of purpose. He wants on the couch; 5 minutes later he wants down. He would wander up to our 2nd floor bedrooms -- wanted to be on the bed, wanted to be let down, wanted to be on DS's bed, wanted to go down the stairs. Extremely restless. We finally had to barricade the bottom of our stairs (with pillows), so he wouldn't go upstairs.
During this wandering/"sundowner" time, he wants to be let out often. We put him out, he comes back in, and 15-30 minutes later he's barking at the door to be let out again. He will do this 8-12 times every evening. It's like he forgets he was just out. We try to redirect him but it doesn't always work. He also occasionally seems lost. He will go upstairs, get to the landing, and then just stand there and bark. It's like he doesn't know what he was doing or where he was going.
The barking is the absolute worst. It's incessant. He will stare at a wall and bark and bark and bark. He eats a bite of food, barks for several minutes, eats another bite, and on and on. We had family over for Christmas, and he barked almost the entire time they were here. His anxiety went into overdrive. We can sequester him, but the barking continues AND he pees and/or poops to let us know he's unhappy. Of course, he barks often throughout the night. He has also started whining and whimpering for no apparent reason.
Physically, he has lost most of his hearing and can't jump off of furniture anymore. He has no other physical issues. Thankfully, he has not had trouble with accidents in the house.
Several people have suggested that it's time to let him go. But...I don't know. I realize that it's a quality of life issue, but at what point is a dog's quality of life gone? When should we let him go? His behaviors are annoying, but we can live with them. This is not a case of just wanting to be done dealing with him. When it's physical, it's more clear cut. Dementia is totally different.
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Post by alexa11 on Mar 8, 2018 2:03:14 GMT
Does he enjoy anything? I know it's so hard to let them go...
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caangel
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Post by caangel on Mar 8, 2018 2:12:57 GMT
Does he still do/enjoy the things he loves to do?
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PrettyInPeank
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Mar 8, 2018 2:15:58 GMT
When they no longer find joy in their favorite things, it's probably time.
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Post by fuji on Mar 8, 2018 2:16:27 GMT
Does he enjoy anything? I know it's so hard to let them go... He does still seem to recognize us. When DS comes home from college to visit, he wants to be by him as much as possible. When DS leaves, we often find him sleeping in DS's room. He will occasionally have a burst of energy and want to play, but that is very rare. The spark is still there, but not as bright. |
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Post by alexa11 on Mar 8, 2018 2:20:14 GMT
The spark is still there, but not as bright. I couldn't let him go just yet then. But that's just my opinion and it's probably a selfish one. I think you'll know. |
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Post by redshoes on Mar 8, 2018 2:29:39 GMT
That much barking seems like anxiety/stress and that can’t feel good for him?? Poor baby....it’s not an easy decision at all. When it’s the right time, you’ll have a peace in your heart that says you love him enough to let him go.
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Post by christine58 on Mar 8, 2018 2:30:34 GMT
Take him to the vet for a physical. Maybe the vet can give him some meds for the anxiety. He sounds very sad and disoriented and not having fun. I think if you have to ask when---you already have the answer.
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Post by mikklynn on Mar 8, 2018 2:32:56 GMT
Have you spoken to your vet about medication for the anxiety?
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GiantsFan
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Post by GiantsFan on Mar 8, 2018 2:35:31 GMT
It's such a hard decision.
This may not be a popular opinion here but I truly believe that not only is it about the pets quality of life, but the owners quality of life too. When an elderly pet starts potty-ing on the floor, gets night and day reversed, howling/barking/crying constantly, becomes aggressive when they normally weren't (possibly pain related?), and in some cases the cost of treatment, then I think it's time. Personally in our home when the dog quits eating or doesn't respond to treatment then it's time. Without going into icky details I've spent a lot of money to keep dogs going. It's not a decision that I make lightly just to get rid of the responsibility.
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Post by Zee on Mar 8, 2018 2:40:33 GMT
If he's whimpering and whining along with constant barking, I'd worry that his quality of life isn't what it should be. I know there can be tremendous guilt associated with making this choice, but I know if I was completely disoriented and restless and nervous and whimpering I'd prefer to go gently into that good night, as they say. Yes, you could try meds, but what will that really do at this point? (So says the woman who procured and butchered raw pancreas and medicated daily and cleaned up IBS accidents for her old man cat for two long years simply because he really, really wanted to live...and because he confined his accidents to one tiled floor...and because he was my feline soul mate...but still) I'm so sorry, it's never easy...  |
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Post by mom26 on Mar 8, 2018 2:43:09 GMT
We're struggling with the same issue with our 14yo Sheltie. He's deaf, blind, becoming incontinent and has heart issues. He still acts like a puppy most of the time, though. Spring in his step, tail wagging and is oh, so sweet. But, his bad days are becoming more frequent and we have to eventually make a decision about euthanasia whether we want to or not. We do know that we don't want to wait for him to get so bad we are rushing to the vet to end his pain. We have lost 3 pets in the last five years and their last moments were truly awful because we waited too long. I don't want to wait too long with Bandit and have his last hours be full of pain and fear and agony. I know this is of no help to you, other than I get it and I'm right there with you. {{Hugs}} |
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Post by fuji on Mar 8, 2018 2:46:42 GMT
I called our vet about the dementia. He said that this is a relatively new diagnosis for dogs; therefore he has never had any training on it. He suggested we go to a younger vet, who would have probably covered it in vet school. Strangely enough, we were talking to a friend whose dog is going through the same thing. She had also called a few vets (different from ours) who claim there is nothing that can be done. We'll have to keep looking.
The anxiety was always kept in check because we figured out what situations made him anxious, and we could usually avoid them (putting him in a crate, leaving him alone for too long, etc). The Christmas episode was completely new. He usually was unfazed by visitors.
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Mar 8, 2018 2:50:44 GMT
I had to let my 14 year old border collie go for the exact same behavior. I came to the conclusion that she did not enjoy the night time behavior any more than she did. She was suffering while this pacing was going on, she was in distress. She would stand with her nose pressed against a wall and have no idea where she was.
It was hard to make that choice. She had been our loyal friend for so long it hurt me more to see her suffer, than it did to let her go. When it is the right time you will know in your heart. Hugs.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 8, 2018 2:51:35 GMT
Our older pup slowed down and lost a lot of eeoght. Turned out she had diabetes and was in ketoacitosis. We thought she was just slowing down.
If we would have caught it walker, we could have treated, but we didn't and I didn't want her last days to be in a hospital away from us.
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Post by scrappintoee on Mar 8, 2018 2:53:37 GMT
I'm so sorry...hopefully you'll find a vet that can help you more. Ugh, we've been through something similar, so I know how hard it is.  Sending ((( hugs ))). |
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pridemom
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Post by pridemom on Mar 8, 2018 3:08:26 GMT
HUgs. We are in the same boat with our 15 year old beagle. She also has dementia and is unaware that she’s having accidents. She is up 3-4 times a night and wants out, but comes back in. You have to say her name 3-4 times when she’s wandering before she looks your way. She’s lost a lot of weight and was skinny to begin with. Dh called the vet yesterday to make an appointment to put her to sleep Saturday.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 8, 2018 3:24:42 GMT
Having made the decision twice, in hindsight I'll say we pushed them both longer than we should of. It was an unbearable decision both times, regardless of how low the quality of life diminished. It wasn't easier in the end, and there are regrets. I'm sorry you are facing this. Going forward with other pets, when we start questioning when is it time, we'll know it's time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 3:28:00 GMT
Our dog is 18, deaf, can barely stand up and is now going blind. She wants out ever 2.5 minutes, just to want back in.
She has also developed a paranoia about food. She is constantly looking for it. I give a lot leftovers to the chickens and the dog just stand in front of their cage waiting for a chance to get at those leftovers.
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Post by lexilu on Mar 8, 2018 3:43:29 GMT
When my first Westie was 16+ yrs old, it was so hard to say good-bye. She had been suffering from a tumor in her bladder, almost blind, hearing loss, disoriented, walked around a lot (unable to relax unless she was sleeping), panted a lot, and no longer enjoyed toys or playing. I know that I waited longer than I should have to put her to sleep. When the day came, I helped her to say good-bye to my daughters, our house & backyard, and everything she had loved so much. At the vet, her favorite doctor was with us .... I was surprised by the relief I felt when she passed .... I knew she was no longer in pain or suffering. Saying good-bye is so sad, but when your pet no longer enjoys things and is scared/disoriented of their surroundings, then the time has come.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Mar 8, 2018 4:17:28 GMT
Sounds exactly like my last little old guy at the end, only mine was having accidents inside daily and that gets old FAST. Our vet basically said to us that we should make a list of the dog’s 10 favorite things to do when he was in his prime and cross off all the stuff he can no longer do or enjoy. Once you get to the point where you’ve knocked 50% or more of the things off that list, it’s time to seriously think about what their quality of life is. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, it’s never any fun getting to this point with a beloved pet.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Mar 8, 2018 4:19:12 GMT
HUgs. We are in the same boat with our 15 year old beagle. She also has dementia and is unaware that she’s having accidents. She is up 3-4 times a night and wants out, but comes back in. You have to say her name 3-4 times when she’s wandering before she looks your way. She’s lost a lot of weight and was skinny to begin with. Dh called the vet yesterday to make an appointment to put her to sleep Saturday. I’m so sorry.  |
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Post by 950nancy on Mar 8, 2018 4:29:24 GMT
For me, when they lose their quality of life. I don't believe in making a dog stick around longer than he/she should because I feel guilty or I need them to be in my life. I try to honor my dogs the same way I would want to be treated. While I love my dogs just like I love my family, I can't keep them hanging on just for me. I also think there is some relief in letting a sick pet go. It is just really hard taking them to the vet for their last car ride. I put my sheltie down three months ago and just typing this makes me cry, but I know she is not longer suffering.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Mar 8, 2018 6:32:24 GMT
Our friends just put their 19 year old shitzu to sleep a little while ago. (3 weeks maybe 4???) and it was very hard on them. They were deeply attached to her. She wasn't anxious and she didn't have dementia other than she was just old.
My theory is are you keeping the dog alive for your sake or because the dog is still healthy. If the dog still gets love and affection from you I wouldn't be in any hurry. If the dog is suffering, there's your answer. I am a later than sooner kind of person.
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Post by nlwilkins on Mar 8, 2018 8:26:50 GMT
So sorry you are going through this, it is not easy.
I read up on this when it came time to make this kind of decision for one of our cats. One thing that stuck out to me is a vet who said that it was better to be six months too soon rather than six minutes too late. Check out what you can expect towards the end if your pet goes on his own, a natural death. Is it extreme? Is this pain and anxiety going to get worse, will he get more and more restless? Or will he just lay down and not wake up? What are you setting him up for? These are the things I asked myself about the two cats we had to let go. I did not want to be in the six minutes too late category. But, I did not want to rush it. If you know you are risking a painful, NOT peaceful passing, then don't wait too long. But if that is not a risk, then you have time to wait for something that just tells you it is time. Maybe when he get completely incontinent, or maybe when he no longer is able to eat. Something will click in you to let you know it is time. But just be sure he is not in pain. That restless activity may be the sign of pain. It is hard with some animals as they hide their pain and lack of health.
One thing that helped for the second cat is the blood work the vet did. The numbers showed that he was at the end stage of kidney failure and was going to pas any moment. Without the blood work I would have never known that. I wanted his passing to be peaceful and painless, and it was. I will never forget the peace that came over him as I held him as the vet administered the final shot. He was looking at me with love in his eyes and then relaxed and closed his eyes. All tension went out of him and I was so grateful to be there to see that. He was at peace and hurting no more.
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carhoch
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Post by carhoch on Mar 8, 2018 10:38:27 GMT
If my dog would have the symptoms yours has I would absolutely let him go ,you gave him a long and happy life the ultimate gift you can give him is to free him .
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blue tulip
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Post by blue tulip on Mar 8, 2018 12:52:15 GMT
If my dog would have the symptoms yours has I would absolutely let him go ,you gave him a long and happy life the ultimate gift you can give him is to free him . I agree. hugs to you, OP. |
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schizo319
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Post by schizo319 on Mar 8, 2018 13:18:49 GMT
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Our 15 year old dachshund is starting to have some of the same symptoms (only she whines instead of barking) and her kidneys are beginning to fail, so we are also starting to think about end of life plans. I agree with the peas who said to have a discussion with your veterinarian and see what they say. Hugs to you...
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Post by peajays on Mar 8, 2018 13:29:50 GMT
I don't want to hijack your thread, but we just had to make this decision long distance (from Dominican on our first day there) last week. Our children (22 and 19)had to go through it by themselves. Our dog was doing some of the exact things yours was. She'd sleep all day, and she started having off and on night terrors in her crate. She had cataracts, and Cushings (but miraculously no ill effects from that-although it may have triggered her sudden and unexpected illness). I say, if she's relatively calm now, and isn't in pain, still easy to manage, keep hugging her as long as possible, but when she develops anything requiring intervention, let her go then.
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GiantsFan
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Post by GiantsFan on Mar 8, 2018 14:49:19 GMT
HUgs. We are in the same boat with our 15 year old beagle. She also has dementia and is unaware that she’s having accidents. She is up 3-4 times a night and wants out, but comes back in. You have to say her name 3-4 times when she’s wandering before she looks your way. She’s lost a lot of weight and was skinny to begin with. Dh called the vet yesterday to make an appointment to put her to sleep Saturday. I'm sorry. |
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