Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 2:48:35 GMT
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 2:50:49 GMT
Its now being reported that the biological mother of the Hart children lost custody because of drug use and that an aunt was denied the right to adopt the children because she allowed the biological mother to care for them while she worked.
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 4:08:12 GMT
Its now being reported that the biological mother of the Hart children lost custody because of drug use and that an aunt was denied the right to adopt the children because she allowed the biological mother to care for them while she worked. Do you disagree with either of those actions? If the drug use was at a point where she couldn't care for the children she should have lost custody (regardless of race). And if the Aunt was not following the rules the State laid out, then there are consequences to that. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 4:32:41 GMT
Its now being reported that the biological mother of the Hart children lost custody because of drug use and that an aunt was denied the right to adopt the children because she allowed the biological mother to care for them while she worked. Do you disagree with either of those actions? If the drug use was at a point where she couldn't care for the children she should have lost custody ( regardless of race). And if the Aunt was not following the rules the State laid out, then there are consequences to that. I don't think it really matters whether or not I agree or disagree. The children are dead. However, I don't think anyone would dispute that the children would have been better served by staying with their family member given how much abuse they suffered at the hands of their adopted mothers. The placement eventually lead to their death. The Hart children were failed by pretty much everyone they encountered after they left their aunt. The neighbor reports a teenage girl who they believed to be 7 because she didnt have any front teeth and was half the size she should have been, basically knocked their door down and begged them to call CPS. Had she been a white child or even had black mothers how many people would have called CPS before they ended up at the bottom of the ocean. Also one of the moms was found guilty of some sort of domestic violence and abuse against one of the children and was still allowed to remain in the home with them during the same time the aunt was appealing their adoption case. How is that possible? Here are some things we do know: "According to federal statistics, black children in the child welfare system are placed in foster care at twice the rate for white children. A national study of child protective services by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services reported that "minority children, and in particular African American children, are more likely to be in foster care placement than receive in-home services, even when they have the same problems and characteristics as white children" [emphasis added]. Most white children who enter the system are permitted to stay with their families, avoiding the emotional damage and physical risks of foster care placement, while most black children are taken away from theirs. And once removed from their homes, black children remain in foster care longer, are moved more often, receive fewer services, and are less likely to be either returned home or adopted than any other children." Related Article |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 6:10:01 GMT
Do you disagree with either of those actions? If the drug use was at a point where she couldn't care for the children she should have lost custody ( regardless of race). And if the Aunt was not following the rules the State laid out, then there are consequences to that. I don't think it really matters whether or not I agree or disagree. The children are dead. However, I don't think anyone would dispute that the children would have been better served by staying with their family member given how much abuse they suffered at the hands of their adopted mothers. The placement eventually lead to their death. The Hart children were failed by pretty much everyone they encountered after they left their aunt. I would argue that the Hart children were let down by EVERYONE including their Aunt and biological Mother. We have no way of knowing what would have become of them if they hadn't been pulled from their Mom and Aunt. I'm not sure we have enough information to know whether taking them from their family was right. Based on some of the reading I've done their bio mother was a cocaine addict since the 80's and tested positive following the birth of her 6th child ... again. Being raised by a mother who had a continual cocaine problem is not good for children. The Aunt was then granted custody but because she didn't follow the rules, they denied her the right to adopt them. She was allowing the bio mother visits that weren't approved. Based on what I've read (it's all very similar at this point) I assume that the State was afraid the mother would have access if they allowed the Aunt to take permanent custody. Again, I'm not arguing they were better off with where they ended up - because clearly they weren't, but that doesn't mean that their bio family was doing them any favors either. It seems like the system in multiple States let all of these children down. |
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Post by paperaddict on Apr 16, 2018 7:33:47 GMT
I agree with above OP...as a society we ALL let them down. I don't know why CPS was notified earlier especially when one of the children went to the neighbors to report abuse and requested to stay with them...why did the neighbors tell the parents and returned the child to them instead of automatically calling the police? I think that if a child showed up at my door and expressed safety concerns at home that I would involve the police immediately.
I have read about multiple cases with children being returned to their biological parents, who ended up abusing them or killing them. I definitely don't think an aunt, who is willing to let the kids see their mother, who was deemed to be an unfit parent, should be adopting them. If the aunt could not follow the CPS "rules" then how do we know that she has "good judgment" to be a good parent to the kids. I understand the importance of keeping families together but I find that in some cases, it is not in the best interest of the children.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 13:55:55 GMT
If we place too much blame on society and everyone else that will leave none for the "self-less white women" who adopted black children and then killed them. To say we don't know what would have happened if the children were left in the care of the aunt illustrates the misconception white people have that children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers even if there are signs of abuse. The Dekalbs say the monsters actually came over the next day with an apology letter. Imagine how Devonte Hart must have felt hugging that police officer in that viral video. No one believed him because everyone thought better of his adoptive parents.
CPS in multiple states got reports of abuse and did nothing but the only offense on the aunts part that isn't at all violent or intentional resulted in the children immediately being removed from her care. If you are comfortable saying the aunt wasn't responsible enough or wouldn't have made a good parent you would make a good social worker.
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ginacivey
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 16, 2018 13:59:31 GMT
We absolutely do know what would have happened if they had been left with the aunt. we know that they wouldn't have gone over that cliff anything beyond that - hard to tell but odds are they'd still be alive and where there is breath - there is hope gina |
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Post by gryroagain on Apr 16, 2018 14:24:09 GMT
I don’t live in the US so I follow news only sporadically, I had no idea this family was suspected of abuse, or that Devonte was the same kid from the photos (which I had seen). Wow.
There is for sure something rotten in the child services agencies, I do t think that is news to anyone. If you are black, the burden of proof is always going to be higher. In so many cases (and I say this as some one with close family members who are foster parents and adoptive parents from the system) the family unit can be preserved if we just had adequate social safety nets in place. Instead the kids are taken, passed around, “saved”...but in so many cases just basic help like adequate affordable housing, daycare, etc could have prevented the disruption in the first place. Many parents are not actually bad parents, they are poor parents and struggling parents.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 14:29:03 GMT
I don’t live in the US so I follow news only sporadically, I had no idea this family was suspected of abuse, or that Devonte was the same kid from the photos (which I had seen). Wow. There is for sure something rotten in the child services agencies, I do t think that is news to anyone. If you are black, the burden of proof is always going to be higher. In so many cases (and I say this as some one with close family members who are foster parents and adoptive parents from the system) the family unit can be preserved if we just had adequate social safety nets in place. Instead the kids are taken, passed around, “saved”...but in so many cases just basic help like adequate affordable housing, daycare, etc could have prevented the disruption in the first place. Many parents are not actually bad parents, they are poor parents and struggling parents. Poor white women are allowed to mother their children and no one demonizes them or attempts to take away their children. This only happens to black women hence why they coined the term "Jane Crow". Even in equally abusive situations white children are allowed to stay in a familial placing avoiding the foster system all together. How many white grandmothers have raised opiod addicted daughters and then get custody of the grandchildren? Why aren't black children allowed to stay with their family members? The bar of good parenting for white parents is set pretty low. The bias between what it means to be a good black mother vs a good white mother is rampant. White women create school shooters and get sympathy and gofundmes. Meanwhile the black on black violence in Chicago is almost always blamed on absent fathers and welfare queens. No one blames school shootings on white parents even when the guns came from their gun collections |
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breetheflea
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Post by breetheflea on Apr 16, 2018 14:52:39 GMT
Only half of the six kids were siblings of Devonte. I wonder what the story is on them, were they also taken from biological relatives? There was also a 4th sibling (of Devonte) that was not adopted, who I believe is in prison. I don't think either situation ,living with their aunt, or being adopted would have ended happily  |
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Post by Merge on Apr 16, 2018 14:59:10 GMT
I don’t live in the US so I follow news only sporadically, I had no idea this family was suspected of abuse, or that Devonte was the same kid from the photos (which I had seen). Wow. There is for sure something rotten in the child services agencies, I do t think that is news to anyone. If you are black, the burden of proof is always going to be higher. In so many cases (and I say this as some one with close family members who are foster parents and adoptive parents from the system) the family unit can be preserved if we just had adequate social safety nets in place. Instead the kids are taken, passed around, “saved”...but in so many cases just basic help like adequate affordable housing, daycare, etc could have prevented the disruption in the first place. Many parents are not actually bad parents, they are poor parents and struggling parents. Poor white women are allowed to mother their children and no one demonizes them or attempts to take away their children. This only happens to black women hence why they coined the term "Jane Crow". Even in equally abusive situations white children are allowed to stay in a familial placing avoiding the foster system all together. How many white grandmothers have raised opiod addicted daughters and then get custody of the grandchildren? Why aren't black children allowed to stay with their family members? The bar of good parenting for white parents is set pretty low. The bias between what it means to be a good black mother vs a good white mother is rampant. White women create school shooters and get sympathy and gofundmes. Meanwhile the black on black violence in Chicago is almost always blamed on absent fathers and welfare queens. No one blames school shootings on white parents even when the guns came from their gun collections Well, I, for one, do blame the parents of white school shooters and the parents of any child who allowed their child access to a firearm. I’ve said repeatedly here that those adults should be prosecuted and punished as accessories when someone is hurt or killed due to their negligence. Sadly, for the rest, I agree with you. Wealthy, white, abusive parents get to keep their kids. Wealthy, white drug addicts get to keep their kids. The same is not necessarily true for black and brown families. I don’t have solutions for this. How do you think we can best fix it? |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 15:15:54 GMT
I agree with above OP...as a society we ALL let them down. I don't know why CPS was notified earlier especially when one of the children went to the neighbors to report abuse and requested to stay with them...why did the neighbors tell the parents and returned the child to them instead of automatically calling the police? I think that if a child showed up at my door and expressed safety concerns at home that I would involve the police immediately. I have read about multiple cases with children being returned to their biological parents, who ended up abusing them or killing them. I definitely don't think an aunt, who is willing to let the kids see their mother, who was deemed to be an unfit parent, should be adopting them. If the aunt could not follow the CPS "rules" then how do we know that she has "good judgment" to be a good parent to the kids. I understand the importance of keeping families together but I find that in some cases, it is not in the best interest of the children. Yes! This. You said what I was trying to say much clearer. |
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 15:22:31 GMT
If we place too much blame on society and everyone else that will leave none for the "self-less white women" who adopted black children and then killed them. To say we don't know what would have happened if the children were left in the care of the aunt illustrates the misconception white people have that children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers even if there are signs of abuse. The Dekalbs say the monsters actually came over the next day with an apology letter. Imagine how Devonte Hart must have felt hugging that police officer in that viral video. No one believed him because everyone thought better of his adoptive parents. CPS in multiple states got reports of abuse and did nothing but the only offense on the aunts part that isn't at all violent or intentional resulted in the children immediately being removed from her care. If you are comfortable saying the aunt wasn't responsible enough or wouldn't have made a good parent you would make a good social worker. Nowhere did I say that the "children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers". I'm saying that I'm not so sure I agree that those children were better off with their bio mother and Aunt (who happen to be black). I would say the same thing if we were talking about white children with a white cocaine addict mother and a white aunt who couldn't follow CPS rules. Of course the Aunts actions were intentional. She let their mother have visitation and take care of them when she wasn't around. Against CPS rules that were laid out. You can't say that's not intentional. Olan, you often wonder why people won't have discourse with you on these topics - I see it all the time in your posts. It's because you can't have civil discourse back. I'm not a social worker - I don't pretend to be one. And I have said multiple times that CPS failed ALL these children (not just the Hart kids). I'm giving you my opinion, as best and as clearly as I can, and you insult me back. |
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:25:39 GMT
Only half of the six kids were siblings of Devonte. I wonder what the story is on them, were they also taken from biological relatives? There was also a 4th sibling (of Devonte) that was not adopted, who I believe is in prison. I don't think either situation ,living with their aunt, or being adopted would have ended happily Teeth knocked out Denied food/Malnourished Get Out-esque/All Lives Matter photo of Devonte Hart Domestic Violence Conviction Driven off a Cliff "I don't think either situation ,living with their aunt, or being adopted would have ended happily" |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:31:49 GMT
If we place too much blame on society and everyone else that will leave none for the "self-less white women" who adopted black children and then killed them. To say we don't know what would have happened if the children were left in the care of the aunt illustrates the misconception white people have that children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers even if there are signs of abuse. The Dekalbs say the monsters actually came over the next day with an apology letter. Imagine how Devonte Hart must have felt hugging that police officer in that viral video. No one believed him because everyone thought better of his adoptive parents. CPS in multiple states got reports of abuse and did nothing but the only offense on the aunts part that isn't at all violent or intentional resulted in the children immediately being removed from her care. If you are comfortable saying the aunt wasn't responsible enough or wouldn't have made a good parent you would make a good social worker. Nowhere did I say that the "children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers". I'm saying that I'm not so sure I agree that those children were better off with their bio mother and Aunt (who happen to be black). I would say the same thing if we were talking about white children with a white cocaine addict mother and a white aunt who couldn't follow CPS rules. Of course the Aunts actions were intentional. She let their mother have visitation and take care of them when she wasn't around. Against CPS rules that were laid out. You can't say that's not intentional. Olan , you often wonder why people won't have discourse with you on these topics - I see it all the time in your posts. It's because you can't have civil discourse back. I'm not a social worker - I don't pretend to be one. And I have said multiple times that CPS failed ALL these children (not just the Hart kids). I'm giving you my opinion, as best and as clearly as I can, and you insult me back. I didn't insult you. I thanked you for weighing and told you to have a nice day. The aunt didn't allow the mother to care for the children. She went to work and one of her older children allowed the mother inside the home. A social worker immediately made the judgement call and removed the children from the aunts care. One of the Hart mothers said in open court she allowed her "temper to get the best of her" and a judge did not remove the children from her care. Each time the fate of the children is at the discretion of an agency proven to have discriminatory and racist practices. What does civil discourse look like to everyone else? I don't think it really matters whether or not I agree or disagree. The children are dead. However, I don't think anyone would dispute that the children would have been better served by staying with their family member given how much abuse they suffered at the hands of their adopted mothers. The placement eventually lead to their death. The Hart children were failed by pretty much everyone they encountered after they left their aunt. The neighbor reports a teenage girl who they believed to be 7 because she didnt have any front teeth and was half the size she should have been, basically knocked their door down and begged them to call CPS. Had she been a white child or even had black mothers how many people would have called CPS before they ended up at the bottom of the ocean. Also one of the moms was found guilty of some sort of domestic violence and abuse against one of the children and was still allowed to remain in the home with them during the same time the aunt was appealing their adoption case. How is that possible? Here are some things we do know: "According to federal statistics, black children in the child welfare system are placed in foster care at twice the rate for white children. A national study of child protective services by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services reported that "minority children, and in particular African American children, are more likely to be in foster care placement than receive in-home services, even when they have the same problems and characteristics as white children" [emphasis added]. Most white children who enter the system are permitted to stay with their families, avoiding the emotional damage and physical risks of foster care placement, while most black children are taken away from theirs. And once removed from their homes, black children remain in foster care longer, are moved more often, receive fewer services, and are less likely to be either returned home or adopted than any other children." |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 15:39:16 GMT
Nowhere did I say that the "children would be better off anywhere but with their black caregivers". I'm saying that I'm not so sure I agree that those children were better off with their bio mother and Aunt (who happen to be black). I would say the same thing if we were talking about white children with a white cocaine addict mother and a white aunt who couldn't follow CPS rules. Of course the Aunts actions were intentional. She let their mother have visitation and take care of them when she wasn't around. Against CPS rules that were laid out. You can't say that's not intentional. Olan , you often wonder why people won't have discourse with you on these topics - I see it all the time in your posts. It's because you can't have civil discourse back. I'm not a social worker - I don't pretend to be one. And I have said multiple times that CPS failed ALL these children (not just the Hart kids). I'm giving you my opinion, as best and as clearly as I can, and you insult me back. I didn't insult you. I thanked you for weighing and told you to have a nice day. The aunt didn't allow the mother to care for the children. She went to work and one of her older children allowed the mother inside the home. A social worker immediately made the judgement call and removed the children from the aunts care. One of the Hart mothers said in open court she allowed her "temper to get the best of her" and a judge did not remove the children from her care. Each time the fate of the children is at the discretion of an agency proven to have discriminatory and racist practices. What does civil discourse look like to everyone else? I personally thought we were having civil discourse until you told me my opinion would make me a good social worker. In the context of this conversation, that was an insult. That said, everything I've read indicated the Aunt let the mother watch the kids/visit with the kids when she was no in the home. Again, not defending the Hart women or CPS or any of the States that allowed these women to keep those children. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:44:59 GMT
I didn't insult you. I thanked you for weighing and told you to have a nice day. The aunt didn't allow the mother to care for the children. She went to work and one of her older children allowed the mother inside the home. A social worker immediately made the judgement call and removed the children from the aunts care. One of the Hart mothers said in open court she allowed her "temper to get the best of her" and a judge did not remove the children from her care. Each time the fate of the children is at the discretion of an agency proven to have discriminatory and racist practices. What does civil discourse look like to everyone else? That said, everything I've read indicated the Aunt let the mother watch the kids/visit with the kids when she was no in the home. Again, not defending the Hart women or CPS or any of the States that allowed these women to keep those children. That isn't at all what happened. "Thanks for weighing in. Have a good day". |
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tracylynn
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Post by tracylynn on Apr 16, 2018 15:51:22 GMT
I personally thought we were having civil discourse until you told me my opinion would make me a good social worker. In the context of this conversation, that was an insult.That said, everything I've read indicated the Aunt let the mother watch the kids/visit with the kids when she was no in the home. Again, not defending the Hart women or CPS or any of the States that allowed these women to keep those children. "Thanks for weighing in. Have a good day". Yes, it is. Have a good day Olan. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:52:21 GMT
why did the neighbors tell the parents and returned the child to them instead of automatically calling the police? I think that if a child showed up at my door and expressed safety concerns at home that I would involve the police immediately. The women were brazen enough to walk over with an apology letter and likely a long story about how their mother is a liar and as a result, they sometimes "stretch the truth". The type of abuse those kids suffered and the fact that the All Lives Matter photo garnered such publicity shows how confident the Hart mothers were that no one would ever believe those kids. Crying KidThe picture had an immediate and unavoidable emotional impact. An African American boy, tears streaming down his face, hugging a police officer in a helmet, in the middle of a 2014 Black Lives Matter protest. At a time when the country felt so divided -- by race, gender, politics -- it was the easiest possible answer to the question we all ask ourselves every day: "Will things ever get better?" It said, look, protesting has worked! Look, reconciliation is possible! Look, this young black boy is hugging this white cop! Bridging a seemingly endless chasm! The hard work is over! Let love rain down. The photo went viral like it was destined to do. It was a well-framed, poignant moment -- when looked at in a certain light -- that a lot of people, especially white people, wanted to believe in. It went from being a news photo to being an art piece to being a ubiquitous symbol. For some people, it symbolized hope. For some people, it was about the trauma of existing as a black person under systemic racism in the United States. In all the hype, we forgot Devonte was a 12-year-old child. And for some reason, that child was holding onto a police officer and crying. Here's another way of looking at the photo of Devonte Hart and Portland police Sgt. Bret Barnum, a way that has been gnawing at me since the first report that an SUV found at the bottom of a California cliff may have carried the boy in the photo. Devonte is clinging to an adult in a position of power and sobbing. Maybe he is begging silently for help. The photo, so beautiful, so perfect, felt like it must be about the macro. It must be about systems, the country, something big. What if, in fact, it was about the micro: a child from an abusive household trying to tell an adult something was wrong? After the photo went viral, we heard what Devonte thought about what was happening through the lense of various adults. He told Barnum that he "was sad about the protest, kind of about national events." When Johnny Nguyen, the freelance photographer who took the picture, was interviewed in 2014 about what happened, he said Devonte was crying even before the photo was taken. "I asked, 'Do you know what's going on?'" Nguyen told The Oregonian/OregonLive at the time. "He said, 'A protest.' I asked him if he knew why it's going on. He said 'Yes. I asked him if he thought it was good or bad. He didn't say anything. He kept crying, so I gave him a hug." Nguyen has declined to speak to the media since the crash. Barnum said in a short statement after the incident, "As you can imagine, the tragic news about Devonte and his family deeply saddens me. The short interaction with Devonte in November 2014 was certainly one of those moments in my career which reinforced my love, passion, and duty in providing compassion and service to my community." Now we know things we didn't know then. We know that his two white mothers who had adopted six black children were investigated multiple times for abuse, that his mother Sarah Hart was convicted of abuse. We know the parents pulled the kids out of public school after Sarah's legal case ended. We know that Devonte and his siblings were part of a social media narrative that does not seem to match what was happening at home. We know the Hart children were isolated from adults outside the family, that they were not registered as homeschool kids and so their academic and physical progress wasn't being tracked by anyone outside the family. It was so easy when we saw the picture of Devonte crying to ascribe a meaning to it that bolstered whatever narrative we chose. We projected what we wanted onto that image, instead of asking ourselves, on a human level, why this kid was holding onto this officer. Why was he really crying? |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 15:55:53 GMT
That isn't at all what happened. "Thanks for weighing in. Have a good day". Yes, it is. Have a good day Olan. I have no problems with how you choose to interpret our conversation. I know how the thread reads. I stand by everything I've said here. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 18:59:59 GMT
I don’t have solutions for this. How do you think we can best fix it? By dismantling systemic racism. |
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M in Carolina
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Post by M in Carolina on Apr 16, 2018 19:06:59 GMT
This whole story just breaks my heart and sickens me. It's obvious that the mothers kept moving to stay ahead of the CPS, since they had investigations in all 3 states. WTF is wrong with CPS that they just knock on the door and leave when they don't get an answer? Multiple attempts to contact the parents failed. That should require an automatic immediate response by police and CPS investigators. The idea that you can ignore CPS despite obvious flashing neon red signs of abuse is absolutely unconscionable. The whole race thing makes me want to puke. That photo of Devonte hugging the police officer never looked right to me. He looks terrified and like he's being forced to hug the woman. He's got a very expressive expression, and his eyebrows are pinched together. There's a YouTube video of Devonte hugging a musician, and he has the same expression. There's also his outfit--a zebra-striped bodysuit with a black fluffy tail along with letters and a heart shaved into his hair. There's got to be a way to prevent gross abuses like these from happening. Public school staff are trained to notice and report potential signs of abuse. Parents shouldn't be able to just pull their kids out of schools after an investigation, much less a conviction of child abuse. CPS definitely needs a complete overhaul, but there are some safety nets that could be implemented that could help millions of children in the system. Adoptions through foster care should require monitoring by CPS. Caseworkers are overwhelmed, but the state could contract out with child psychologists to do annual interviews with the children. Annual visits to pediatricians should be required. Psychiatric counseling should be required as well to help the kids deal with the traumas of being neglected, abused, and taken away from their biological families. One of the articles I read stated that CPS investigators who interviewed the kids during the criminal investigation for the abuse back in Minnesota believed that the children were being coached. That didn't seem to trigger a deeper investigation. This CNN article talks about all the signs of 'potential' abuse. Not feeding your kids is abuse. period. Children half the size they should be IS abuse. Isolating them *is* abuse. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 16, 2018 23:28:16 GMT
One pager because Starbucks is an easier bandwagon battle Olan  |
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M in Carolina
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Post by M in Carolina on Apr 17, 2018 0:53:36 GMT
We absolutely do know what would have happened if they had been left with the aunt. we know that they wouldn't have gone over that cliff anything beyond that - hard to tell but odds are they'd still be alive and where there is breath - there is hope gina This needs to be repeated. I'm absolutely *not* agreeing that leaving children in homes where there's drug abuse is the right choice. But millions of kids live in homes where parents and other family members abuse alcohol and drugs. Multiple studies have concluded that millions of white middle and upper-middle-class mothers abuse prescription pills and alcohol. People turn a blind eye because they're functional and aren't abusing 'street' drugs (although the abuse of heroin among suburban white parents is rising steeply). There's a chasm of institutional racism in how CPS handles cases. White parents are given multiple chances despite being convicted of physical abuse while minority parents have their children taken, often permanently, for much less serious neglect and/or abuse. The lifelong emotional and psychological damage of being ripped from your entire family and put in a broken foster care system where the kids often experience continued neglect and abuse is a huge catalyst for continuing the cycle of substance abuse. The US has a long history of institutional racist atrocities against minorities. The racism still exists, it's just better hidden. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 17, 2018 13:40:21 GMT
Unidentified Body "Positive identification will most likely be done by DNA analysis, a process that can take several weeks," the Sherriff's Office said. I wonder why they aren't using dental records or allowing a biological family member to make an identification. I only say this because the women were such monsters but what if the other three children were not in the vehicle and are alive in need of help somewhere. My heart breaks for the children and their families.
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breetheflea
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Posts: 6,584
Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Apr 17, 2018 13:49:39 GMT
Unidentified Body "Positive identification will most likely be done by DNA analysis, a process that can take several weeks," the Sherriff's Office said. I wonder why they aren't using dental records or allowing a biological family member to make an identification. I only say this because the women were such monsters but what if the other three children were not in the vehicle and are alive in need of help somewhere. My heart breaks for the children and their families. They can't locate any dental records. |
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ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685
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Post by ginacivey on Apr 17, 2018 13:50:20 GMT
I wonder why they aren't using dental records or allowing a biological family member to make an identification. i'd imagine if there were an easier route to identification they'd take it salt water can take a toll on the human body - and no telling if the body is intact gina |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Apr 17, 2018 14:08:30 GMT
Unidentified Body "Positive identification will most likely be done by DNA analysis, a process that can take several weeks," the Sherriff's Office said. I wonder why they aren't using dental records or allowing a biological family member to make an identification. I only say this because the women were such monsters but what if the other three children were not in the vehicle and are alive in need of help somewhere. My heart breaks for the children and their families. They can't locate any dental records. Thanks. I struggled to find that in print. Here is the article I found that mentions it: Interview Biological MomBy the time Devonte Hart's biological mom saw the viral photo that made him famous, her son was already missing and presumed dead, along with one of her other children. A third was confirmed dead. And Sherry Davis was devastated. Friday, in her first interview since her children died, Davis spoke with The Oregonian/OregonLive, describing her heartbreak, how she lost her kids, and how she'd gotten clean with the hope of one day getting them back. Davis' children Devonte, Sierra and Jeremiah were with their adoptive parents, Jennifer and Sarah Hart, and their three adopted siblings when Jennifer Hart apparently drove the family off a California cliff last month. Clarence Celestine, father of Jeremiah and Sierra, said he hasn't been able to sleep since he heard the news. He wants to leave every time someone mentions the crash and concerns of abuse that followed the children and their adoptive parents in three states. He wishes his sister, Priscilla Celestine, who fought to keep the kids when Davis lost custody, had been able to keep them. "I don't understand why they took the kids from my sister," said Clarence Celestine, 66. "And gave them to monsters," Davis added. What also tears at Davis and Celestine: Had a local family law attorney who represented the kids' aunt in a failed custody bid not recognized the children in news reports, Davis believes she might never have known their fate. Cocaine addiction led to Davis losing custody of Devonte in 2006, along with siblings Jeremiah and Sierra, whom she'd named Ciara Rose. She said she's spent the years since getting clean and back on her feet, praying that her children were somewhere happy and that they knew she still loved them. She even hoped to one day regain custody. Davis said that even while she was using drugs, her children were well fed, well dressed and never neglected. Back then, she said, she was doing live-in care at least two days a week for work and housekeeping on the side to make ends meet. Once the three children and a fourth older child, Dontay, were taken by Texas' Department of Family and Protective Services, they were temporarily placed with their aunt, Priscilla Celestine. They were put into foster care about five months later when a caseworker arrived at Celestine's home and found Davis there with the children, unsupervised. Davis said she'd been undergoing a court-ordered drug treatment program when the kids were first placed with the aunt and hoped to one day regain custody. She ultimately feels her past dealings with CPS, which included previously losing custody of three older children, worked against her and led to the four younger kids being immediately removed from their biological family. When she found out the Harts adopted Devonte, Jeremiah and Sierra in 2009, Davis said, she relapsed. Having her kids taken again took everything out of her, she said, crying. There were days where she felt like she couldn't breathe. "I gave up," Davis said. It took about a year for her to begin regaining sobriety. Today, Davis is an in-home care worker. She's married and said she's been clean for eight years. She never gave up hoping she'd one day reunite her family. Learning of her children's deaths -- and of the abuse allegations that preceded them -- has been devastating. "They're so quick to snatch [children] from people like us," she said, "but once they're adopted, they don't even check on them?" Clarence Celestine said he was in prison when the kids were in and out of his sister's custody. He doesn't understand why the children weren't spared in the crash, left somewhere someone could find them and keep them safe, he said. "They'd be better off with us," said Celestine, who's owned a landscaping business for the last eight years. Thursday was the first time Davis saw the now-famous viral photo of her son Devonte giving a Portland police officer a teary hug. Baby D, as she knew him, was always smart, quiet and observant. The photo of him brought her no comfort. In fact, it left her unsettled. "That should've been a happy moment," Davis, 48, said at her Houston home Friday. "I believe he wanted to speak to the officer but was probably too scared." She spoke the same day California authorities announced Jennifer Hart was drunk when she drove off the coastal cliff. Jennifer Hart had an alcohol level of .102 percent, according to the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office. The agency also said Sarah Hart and two of the children who died in the crash had diphenhydramine, an active ingredient in Benadryl, in their systems. Benadryl can make people sleepy. Toxicology results for the third child who died in the crash aren't yet complete, the sheriff's office said. The body of an African American female found in the ocean near the crash scene still hasn't been identified, and Devonte, Hannah and Sierra Hart remain missing. Lt. Shannon Barney, a sheriff's office spokesman, said Friday that authorities can't rely on dental records to identify the body that was recovered last weekend because authorities haven't been able to find a dentist who treated the children. He said it will take a couple of weeks to get DNA results back from a lab and positively identify the body. For Davis, there's one last thing she'd like to do for her babies. She hopes to bring their bodies back to Texas. She'd like to bury them somewhere close to her. |
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Olan
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Olan on Apr 18, 2018 10:03:51 GMT
The body has been identified as Ciera. I have read about multiple cases with children being returned to their biological parents, who ended up abusing them or killing them. I definitely don't think an aunt, who is willing to let the kids see their mother, who was deemed to be an unfit parent, should be adopting them. If the aunt could not follow the CPS "rules" then how do we know that she has "good judgment" to be a good parent to the kids. I understand the importance of keeping families together but I find that in some cases, it is not in the best interest of the children. The mother was addicted to cocaine so while she wasn't a fit parent, there are no reports that the children were abused or even neglected as they were in the Hart household. Her family members say she was a functioning addict, maintained employment and generally took good care of the children. In black families when someone has an addiction, other family members routinely pick up the slack and will care for the children. Many times mom is ostracized but in most instances, the children of addicted parents desperately want to maintain those diseased relationships with their parents. Is it healthy for them? Likely not but you can recover from a co-dependent relationship. You can not recover from being emotionally and physically abused and its clear Devonte and his siblings were. They didn't even see a dentist regularly and were all malnourished. It's sad that the aunt and addicted mother are getting more blame/ judgment for the children's demise than the actual monsters who drove them into the ocean. Public opinion is tinged with racism. If you google "neglect" and click news you can see for yourself the stark difference in the language used in the reporting and what type of blame is assigned to moms who reside in the homes where children are being abused. They are generally portrayed as victims as well. There was a research paper about white women killing their children vs black women "neglecting" their children and how punishment is virtually the same. The Casey Anthony case was a huge part of the research Also if we agree systematic racism and or Jane Crow exists why do we trust the social worker who says Sherry Davis was unfit but couldn't come to the same conclusion about the Hart women even after one was found guilty of domestic violence and admits in open court that she allowed her anger to get the best of her. Essentially "black children are better off abused by white women than with their biological families" |
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