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Post by teach4u on May 16, 2018 10:44:41 GMT
Our school is hiring for a lower elementary position. An offer was presented to a candidate two weeks ago. Today the candidate came in to get a better look at the classroom. They told the administrator it wasn't what they were looking for, as in too small. It's a normal size room.The incoming class has 13 kids. This person then looked at another teacher's room and said, "Oh, they have a larger room, etc.". You can't judge a person from one encounter. But really? Sitting on an offer for two weeks and then ragging about the room size? Thoughts?
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dawnnikol
Prolific Pea
 
'A life without books is a life not lived.' Jay Kristoff
Posts: 9,460
Sept 21, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Post by dawnnikol on May 16, 2018 10:50:31 GMT
It's probably best they passed, I would assume they'd be high maintenance and drive me up a wall. 
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Kerri W
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,836
Location: Kentucky
Jun 25, 2014 20:31:44 GMT
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Post by Kerri W on May 16, 2018 10:51:06 GMT
Are you part of a hiring committee or somehow witnessed this exchange? I think two weeks is on the longer side to contemplate an offer but have no idea of the bigger picture. Maybe you’re just venting? Surely there must be more to the story?
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,687
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on May 16, 2018 10:51:35 GMT
Oh I’d totally judge that book by its crabby cover.
But....if I wasn’t actually the one in the room when she said those things it’s possible it was taken out of context. She could have said “wow this room is smaller than I pictured, I’ll have to rethink the setup I was considering” and “ah, this room is bigger, this is more like what I was imagining, too bad my room isn’t this size i already have it all planned out”.
Oops missed that they passed on the job. So be it, if they turn down a job based solely based on physical size of the classroom they must not need a job that bad. She was probably already planning on not taking it given the 2 week delay.
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Post by katelynr439 on May 16, 2018 10:57:13 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy.
We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process.
Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations.
Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer.
Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing.
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,861
Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on May 16, 2018 11:26:44 GMT
Was it a female candidate? The above replies are assuming so, but the OP doesn’t say.
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Post by katelynr439 on May 16, 2018 11:30:01 GMT
Was it a female candidate? The above replies are assuming so, but the OP doesn’t say. Good point, but my comments still stand if it's a man, just without the part about women needing to negotiate. If anything, they are more applicable if it's a man because teachers, who are mostly women, would generally be better off if they felt comfortable negotiating for themselves and not taking sub-par resources from the get go.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:02:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 12:28:26 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy. We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process. Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations. Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer. Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing. Did the candidate actually decline the position? Our districts here get hundreds of applicants for each job, so unfortunately no applicant can afford to be this discriminating. While I agree that teachers in general need to speak up more to ask for what they want, room size isn't something a school can adjust for a candidate, so the comment seems more complain and compare than negotiation. Holding firm for a better starting salary, benefits, classroom supplies, etc. is more appropriate, in my view.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on May 16, 2018 12:34:05 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy. We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process. Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations. Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer. Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing. To me, there is a fine line between standing up for yourself and having a me, me, me attitude. We can’t always have what we want—in any area of our lives. It’s helpful to know that.
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Post by monklady123 on May 16, 2018 12:58:38 GMT
Based on just what was offered by the OP (which of course might not be the whole story) I'd say that this person didn't really need a job at this moment. In my school district when someone gets a job offer they usually accept within the next 5 minutes, that's how desirable it is to work here. I honestly don't think someone would mind if they were working in a closet, as long as they could get the job and get their foot in the door. No, they might look for something else if the closet was all they could get for the following year but then they'd be in the system and could look for an internal transfer.
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Post by busy on May 16, 2018 13:03:14 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy. We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process. Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations. Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer. Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing. To me, there is a fine line between standing up for yourself and having a me, me, me attitude. We can’t always have what we want—in any area of our lives. It’s helpful to know that. I don't think it's a "me, me, me" attitude to recognize that your physical workspace will not bring out the best in you. If a teacher, for whatever reason, thinks they cannot do their best work in the available workspace, it's best for all concerned - and especially the students - that they decline the position and move on. I wouldn't judge. I'd say they were self-aware about what they need to be effective. About the two week wait - I don't see the problem. If the district allows it, who cares?
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Post by Merge on May 16, 2018 13:09:04 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy. We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process. Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations. Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer. Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing. I needed to read this, this morning! Not to derail the thread - I've been interviewing for a position at a private school. Unlike public schools, where the salary and working conditions are non-negotiable, at this private school, they ask you things like your salary requirements, how many performances you want in your contract, number of student contact hours, etc. It's been very difficult for me to speak up and ask for what I want (and what I'm worth), and I've been fearing that I might be pushed aside in favor of a less assertive candidate. I have a good position now, so my requirements to contemplate a move are pretty high. To the OP: if she's an experienced teacher who is used to having a certain sized room to fit with her teaching style, then what you consider a normal-sized room might not work for her. And that's OK. I think it's unfortunate that she sat on an offer for two weeks during prime hiring season, but if your admin didn't put a deadline on the offer, then that's kind of on them. She was probably fielding more than one offer. And I agree 100% that we teachers need to start standing up and asking for what we want.
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Post by Merge on May 16, 2018 13:18:10 GMT
You know, it's an interesting dichotomy. We say teachers should have better pay, more respect, better supplies and resources. We say women need to stand up for what they want and negotiate, especially during the hiring process. Then a teacher actually asks for that, and we think she's pushy or crabby or has too high of expectations. Maybe she's coming from a great job, so she's not interested in moving unless it's a perfect opportunity. Maybe she has been burned on not getting the same resources as teachers who have been there longer. Good for her for speaking up on her expectations. Just because they are higher than what other people's doesn't mean she is wrong. If we all just shut up and take what we are given instead of asking for more, we'll always be way behind getting what we want. She will never have more leverage than when she is interviewing. Did the candidate actually decline the position? Our districts here get hundreds of applicants for each job, so unfortunately no applicant can afford to be this discriminating. While I agree that teachers in general need to speak up more to ask for what they want, room size isn't something a school can adjust for a candidate, so the comment seems more complain and compare than negotiation. Holding firm for a better starting salary, benefits, classroom supplies, etc. is more appropriate, in my view. Salary, benefits and supplies are generally non-negotiable in public schools. You get what you get. I've seen schools stick a new teacher, or an older one they want to get rid of, in an oversized closet, and give the larger room to a teacher they know and like better. In a public school, there are very few things admin can actually do at the outset to make our job better or worse, but room assignment is one of them.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on May 16, 2018 13:25:51 GMT
I had options when I was hired for a teaching position. I sat on a position for close to a week because that was all I needed. The classroom size was definitely a consideration of mine.
I understand where the teacher was coming from, but I also understand the OP's issue. I have a friend in a different district, in an older school where classroom sizes were not uniform. That school was looking for a new head football coach. They wanted to hire a man from a different district, who taught social studies (surprise, surprise) and had a wife who taught English. After he was offered the job he said he would only accept if they hired his wife as well. And then they had to tour the school so she could pick out the room she wanted. The school actually agreed and the woman was hired and was given her choice of rooms. Which placed a veteran teacher on the cart, floating from room to room to teach.
The administration should have never agreed to such a thing, but I'm not sure I totally blame the new English teacher. She might have had an awesome room at her former school and wasn't willing to lose it just to follow her husband.
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Post by mustlovecats on May 16, 2018 13:28:39 GMT
I think there’s a difference between advocating for your value as a professional and making unreasonable demands that aren’t related to that value as a professional.
I work in an old school building that is overcrowded in places and has some small rooms. I’ve had student teachers and others come in and say oh, what a shabby old school, why isn’t it as nice as the brand new school over there, look how small, omg you guys have trailer classrooms??? We keep the school in excellent repair and well painted and maintained but it was built in 1963 to meet the demand of a neighborhood that has since tripled in population. You can be an excellent teacher in this school because we will support and resource you and respect you and pay you as well as we can and give you professional development and a good collaborative work environment.
I had one employee after one year with us say, oh, I won’t move to that pod because I can’t work with this person or that person, I won’t work with those kids or that age, I don’t want any special needs and definitely no para in my room. Uh no. That’s not advocating for yourself as a professional, that’s demanding more than anybody can accommodate and making yourself look like a picky brat.
There should be square footage guidelines for classroom occupancy and unless it is exceeded or there are other facilities issues such as non working heaters, no running water etc I think being picky about that is unprofessional. It shows that you can’t flex to meet the needs of the class you have.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 20:02:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 13:46:03 GMT
Did the candidate actually decline the position? Our districts here get hundreds of applicants for each job, so unfortunately no applicant can afford to be this discriminating. While I agree that teachers in general need to speak up more to ask for what they want, room size isn't something a school can adjust for a candidate, so the comment seems more complain and compare than negotiation. Holding firm for a better starting salary, benefits, classroom supplies, etc. is more appropriate, in my view. Salary, benefits and supplies are generally non-negotiable in public schools. You get what you get. I've seen schools stick a new teacher, or an older one they want to get rid of, in an oversized closet, and give the larger room to a teacher they know and like better. In a public school, there are very few things admin can actually do at the outset to make our job better or worse, but room assignment is one of them. I agree with you about not being able to negotiate many things. It would have to be a big school district to give you a choice of rooms, and with 15 kids in a classroom, I doubt there would be several open rooms to choose from. This probably depends on where you are applying. I have negotiated for supplies and starting salary. Once you are on the salary track, in a union school, you generally can't negotiate after that.
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