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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 5, 2018 22:08:38 GMT
So I guess this gets added to the list of "Ways It Is Not OK to Protest" then. Still waiting for the list of "Ways It Is Acceptable to Protest". Perhaps people who were lucky enough to go to Liberty Island today can reframe the experience of being a part of history. I remember being in NYC during Occupy Wall Street and staying in a hotel overlooking Zucotti Park. It was crazy with the occupy people and the law enforcement. I guess I could have complained that my vacation was ruined because it was really difficult to get to and from the hotel. I thought it was amazing to be in the midst of a revolution regardless of my level of involvement or short-term inconvenience. My understanding is that it is fine to protest in your own home. But only silently and with the windows shut on days that don't end in Y. |
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Post by melanell on Jul 5, 2018 22:41:36 GMT
I think her message is getting lost in the disappointment of all the people turned away. It would have been more powerful to do this not on the 4th when the focus was on her message instead of how she ruined everyone’s 4th. Oh, and it’s the 4th so nobody’s really paying attention anyway. I see it differently. It happening on the 4th did not stop us from noticing and paying attention to what happened, and I am sure others are talking about it as well. And that was the point. 
If your peaceful protest occurs on a quiet day and inconveniences no one then it is far less likely to be noticed. Protesting on a day that more people are there is key to your protest being seen and discussed.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jul 5, 2018 22:55:19 GMT
I think this is a hot button issue that would have been on the nightly news with discussion. I saw the one clip, but then there were fireworks, and oppressive heat, and a huge storm rolling into town. Other than here, it was long off my news radar before the evening was over. ETA: I think in this age of everyone looking for their viral video fame, dignity has a place to differentiate your cause being serious instead of “look at me, I went viral”. I believe most people only know some lady in pink shoes climbed up the SOL and ruined a bunch of tourist’s visit. I doubt 75% of American’s know why she did it. Protesters have to control their message for maximum effect. So after thinking about it I’m siding with she leans toward idiot. She squandered an opportunity due to lack of planning and knowing how to get the message across. I just saw your edit. I would say that people who are connected to the cause of immigration reform and reuniting families under compassionate immigration policies know who Therese Patricia Okoumou is and why she did what she did. The news outlets reported the purpose of her protest. The coverage was also pretty broad; my husband even got an alert on his cell phone about it yesterday when Liberty Island was temporarily closed. News outlets are still publishing quite a bit of info on it today, especially as she was just arraigned this afternoon. If you think she "squandered her opportunity," what do you think she should've done differently? The Rise and Resist people were already protesting, but it seems as though she wanted to make a bolder statement. How would you describe a "serious" protest versus one that you are describing here as being "undignified" and "idiotic?" www.businessinsider.com/therese-patricia-okoumou-immigration-protest-at-statue-of-liberty-july-4th-2018-7 |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556 
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Post by cycworker on Jul 5, 2018 23:05:56 GMT
The woman was protesting the terrible treatment of immigrants. Do I need to remind you of the purpose of the Statue of Liberty and the poem that is mounted in the pedestal of that statue? No, you don’tneed to remind me. If this stunt sparks a revolution like Rosa Parks’ did, then I will withdraw my comment. Until then it remains a meaningless gesture. When one is fighting for social justice there is no such thing as a meaningless gesture. No. Such. Thing. And yes, if you don't understand that, you're no better than the white moderates Dr. King warned us about. |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,556
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Post by cycworker on Jul 5, 2018 23:22:06 GMT
Those of you conflicted about this... go back & read the MLK quote again. And if you're a Christian go back into your Bibles. Reread what Paul wrote about spiritual gifts.
These are exactly the kinds of things that are an important part of moving toward change for exactly the reasons some of you are have qualms about it. Change isn't a linear process. It is a feedback loop with multiple parts to it.
I am not a good protester. I'm a bit too gimpy to be climbing buildings. I'm stuck lower than all of you because I'm in the wheelchair, so crowds give me intense claustrophobia.
But do you know what I am? I am one heck of a good policy wonk. And I'm good at bringing people together. You show me the problems & you give me the data to back it up & I can get people to the table to come up with solutions.
It's because taxpayers are annoyed that progress is going to happen. Eventually things snowball when taxpayers start to say, "Hey... wait a minute... I'd like to go to the Statue of Liberty. I'm going to call my Congressman or my Senator & say, 'Buddy! How about you guys work together & do something to help these children?" And the business community joins in, because when the tourist dollars go down, they're directly impacted. The point of protest, in part, is to show people how they're impacted by issues that they don't see as necessarily being 'their problem.'
I've oversimplified, but you get the point. I think. I hope. If something I'm saying doesn't make sense, please let me know. I'm paraphrasing something the best social psychology teacher I've ever had (praying she's resting in peace... she died in 2000) explained to me when I didn't quite understand something she once said briefly in a class about the importance of radicals/radicalism in creating social change.
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,672
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jul 5, 2018 23:49:56 GMT
Those of you conflicted about this... go back & read the MLK quote again. And if you're a Christian go back into your Bibles. Reread what Paul wrote about spiritual gifts. These are exactly the kinds of things that are an important part of moving toward change for exactly the reasons some of you are have qualms about it. Change isn't a linear process. It is a feedback loop with multiple parts to it. I am not a good protester. I'm a bit too gimpy to be climbing buildings. I'm stuck lower than all of you because I'm in the wheelchair, so crowds give me intense claustrophobia. But do you know what I am? I am one heck of a good policy wonk. And I'm good at bringing people together. You show me the problems & you give me the data to back it up & I can get people to the table to come up with solutions. It's because taxpayers are annoyed that progress is going to happen. Eventually things snowball when taxpayers start to say, "Hey... wait a minute... I'd like to go to the Statue of Liberty. I'm going to call my Congressman or my Senator & say, 'Buddy! How about you guys work together & do something to help these children?" And the business community joins in, because when the tourist dollars go down, they're directly impacted. The point of protest, in part, is to show people how they're impacted by issues that they don't see as necessarily being 'their problem.' I've oversimplified, but you get the point. I think. I hope. If something I'm saying doesn't make sense, please let me know. I'm paraphrasing something the best social psychology teacher I've ever had (praying she's resting in peace... she died in 2000) explained to me when I didn't quite understand something she once said briefly in a class about the importance of radicals/radicalism in creating social change. Well said. This whole thing is hard for me. My grandparents immigrated from Mexico when they were young children. It hits real close to home to see those kids separated from their families. I don't know what the answer is, what is the best way to protest. I know that the people who support Trump will most likely not have their opinion change by what happened yesterday. I think the people we want to be impacted by protests are the ones who will vote and possibly are willing to vote against the Republican party. That is really our only hope. I don't know how we do that, but I sure hope we can. |
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Post by hop2 on Jul 6, 2018 0:44:47 GMT
I think her message is getting lost in the disappointment of all the people turned away. It would have been more powerful to do this not on the 4th when the focus was on her message instead of how she ruined everyone’s 4th. Oh, and it’s the 4th so nobody’s really paying attention anyway. I will also say there is power in dignity. Scrambling around the base of the SOL playing keep away from the authorities looked ridiculous on the news. She had everyone’s attention. When they came up to get her she should have stood proud and allowed herself to be escorted off the platform. The statue climb to the crown is sold out pretty much everyday it’s open. To climb up into the statue tickets need to be reserved months in advance. Right now the next available tickets are in October. I don’t think there is another day when she would disappoint less people, unless it was partly closed. ( ie: a day when only pedestal tours are open or something similar ) I don’t know about now, but when I last bought tickets I agreed to non refundable tickets, even in the case of a closure, for any reason or unforeseen circumstance. The statue can easily close due to weather, or temperature. Those people knew there was a possibility that it could close. And on days as hot as yesterday was theres a good chance that it might have been. |
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Post by birukitty on Jul 6, 2018 7:13:20 GMT
Calling the protester an idiot is a valid position to take. So is agreeing with the protester. Having a discussion about why you think one side or other (or both) has a valid position is part of the discussion. The quote from MLK was a masterful touch. Too bad it’s marred by the petty back and forth of thinly veiled (and not so thinly veiled) insults. Okay, well let's talk about it! The protester is definitely getting a lot of attention, both positive and negative. She's an activist, and can be seen speaking here: cbslocal.com/video/3894377-statue-of-liberty-climber-therese-okoumou-speaks-outside-court/ I admire her. If you haven't clicked on the link above she immigrated to the USA in 1994 from The Congo in Africa. Luckily she is a naturalized citizen so she can't be deported. In the interview she says she was protesting against the children being put into cages, that this can't be permitted to continue, that children should not be separated from their parents. How many of us on this board agree with her? I'd say at least 95% probably. While we stayed at home or were out enjoying July 4th with our families and loved ones, she went with her group of protesting friends to the park. According to her in the interview on a spur of the moment she decided to climb the statue to make sure her voice of protest was heard. You may agree with her, or not agree with her. The purpose of protesting something is to make sure your voice is heard. She has certainly done that. I can't think of a better time or place (the statue of liberty) for her protest. |
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