The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,945
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 9, 2018 16:53:44 GMT
My dd is roughly the same age as your ds, just a little younger. She's gone to plenty of antique shops and outdoor antique markets with me. She's done everything from being my shadow to several feet away like your ds was. I'm sure there was a time or two I lost visual sight of her for a minute, or a time when she would leave me to go find her grandparents who were shopping with us. My choice to let her do that depends a lot on the contents of the shop (say, lots of furniture vs lots of glassware), the condition of the shop (cluttered walkways vs clear paths), and her attitude at the moment. That kind of thing. I think your ds was just fine. You and I sound like we parent much the same way. In my op I called it “run of the mill” since it wasn’t a super fancy high end antique store. I get that she is trying to protect assets and that all kids are different, but I’m surprised when people jump to the worst case scenario about upper elementary aged and older kids. We literally were in the place less than 30 seconds when this happened. Watch for a couple minutes first and use a kinder approach if you care about customer service and sales as much as you care about the “stuff.” No, we didn’t buy anything. I guess I feel that if a child is of an age where I can leave him at home for a couple hours, can successfully save and buy stuff, clean a bathroom, make simple foods, go into other people’s home without constant supervision, successfully travel out of the country for ten days and not break anything the entire time, they can probably navigate an antique store with moderate monitoring and proper reminders, and they should be able to navigate a normal store with light monitoring. My boys are still “children”but they also will be in middle school in a year (and some of my friends’ kids in other districts start middle school in 5th grade this next year) Yes, ten year olds are goofy and often annoying (mine as much or more than others), but keeping them at arms length or closer seems over the top to me as long as they are following the rules of not touching without an adult (which is the family rule in antique and higher end fragile shops). They break the rule or show any signs of rebellion, treat them like a five year old. Yes, I still remove my kids from situations if needed, but we “go” and do stuff a lot and we are finally at the point where it has become unusual to remove them (now it’s usually if they are bickering or the DS who has ADHD if he isn’t medicated, but I don’t shop with him in antique stores if he isn’t). Like I said, we were just in Iceland for ten days. They walked through stores at their own pace, found bathrooms, helped their grandparents through places, didn’t fall into waterfalls or cliffs while hiking in the rain, etc... I know that the shop owner doesn’t know that, but they are at an age I wouldn’t expect the worst imo. Thanks for the responses. I’ll try to be a bit more anal until they are in high school while in antique stores.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jul 9, 2018 18:13:10 GMT
My dd is roughly the same age as your ds, just a little younger. She's gone to plenty of antique shops and outdoor antique markets with me. She's done everything from being my shadow to several feet away like your ds was. I'm sure there was a time or two I lost visual sight of her for a minute, or a time when she would leave me to go find her grandparents who were shopping with us. My choice to let her do that depends a lot on the contents of the shop (say, lots of furniture vs lots of glassware), the condition of the shop (cluttered walkways vs clear paths), and her attitude at the moment. That kind of thing. I think your ds was just fine. You and I sound like we parent much the same way. In my op I called it “run of the mill” since it wasn’t a super fancy high end antique store. I get that she is trying to protect assets and that all kids are different, but I’m surprised when people jump to the worst case scenario about upper elementary aged and older kids. We literally were in the place less than 30 seconds when this happened. Watch for a couple minutes first and use a kinder approach if you care about customer service and sales as much as you care about the “stuff.”No, we didn’t buy anything. I guess I feel that if a child is of an age where I can leave him at home for a couple hours, can successfully save and buy stuff, clean a bathroom, make simple foods, go into other people’s home without constant supervision, successfully travel out of the country for ten days and not break anything the entire time, they can probably navigate an antique store with moderate monitoring and proper reminders, and they should be able to navigate a normal store with light monitoring. My boys are still “children”but they also will be in middle school in a year (and some of my friends’ kids in other districts start middle school in 5th grade this next year) Yes, ten year olds are goofy and often annoying (mine as much or more than others), but keeping them at arms length or closer seems over the top to me as long as they are following the rules of not touching without an adult (which is the family rule in antique and higher end fragile shops). They break the rule or show any signs of rebellion, treat them like a five year old. Yes, I still remove my kids from situations if needed, but we “go” and do stuff a lot and we are finally at the point where it has become unusual to remove them (now it’s usually if they are bickering or the DS who has ADHD if he isn’t medicated, but I don’t shop with him in antique stores if he isn’t). Like I said, we were just in Iceland for ten days. They walked through stores at their own pace, found bathrooms, helped their grandparents through places, didn’t fall into waterfalls or cliffs while hiking in the rain, etc... I know that the shop owner doesn’t know that, but they are at an age I wouldn’t expect the worst imo. Thanks for the responses. I’ll try to be a bit more anal until they are in high school while in antique stores. I think unless you have worked retail, you don't really understand how much damage unattended kids can do in a very small amount of time. Bu unattended, I mean kids who are not under your hand. A kid five feet away can destroy an expensive piece of furniture in less than a minute by breaking glass, kicking a leg out, scratching a wood surface, etc. The destruction = lost profits. For a small business owner, that kind of loss can be serious. And the age of the child really does not matter -- some of the worst damage is done by older kids who should know better, should behave better. And should have been parented better. Last week, as an example, we had two kids aged about 8-9 cause over $350 worth of damage in 4 minutes. They destroyed 22 items in that time, plus poured liquids all over shelves and the floor -- which could have led to another customer getting hurt and suing us. Their parents were within eye and earshot and completely ignored them as they wove a path of destruction. Watching them subsequently on the camera was eye opening in terms of their speed and destructiveness. I truly would not have thought that damage was possible in that amount of time, but video does not lie. I am guessing it was not their first rodeo of destruction. I also saw on the video that the kids were okay for the first 10 minutes or so were fine, but they obviously got bored as their parents shopped and that is when the crap happened. My guess is that Iceland may have better behaved children there, so shopkeepers are more tolerant. Here, unattended kids cause serious lost profits and if you try to say something to parents they, at best, get bent out of shape or at worst, threaten to assault you for daring to say one word as their precious snowflake destroys hundreds of dollars of merchandise. I can also tell you that not once have I had a parent offer to pay for the damage caused. And if you mention it, they get very aggressive with you or run out of the store.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jul 9, 2018 18:52:06 GMT
And the age of the child really does not matter -- some of the worst damage is done by older kids who should know better, should behave better. And should have been parented better. Last week, as an example, we had two kids aged about 8-9 cause over $350 worth of damage in 4 minutes. They destroyed 22 items in that time, plus poured liquids all over shelves and the floor -- which could have led to another customer getting hurt and suing us. Their parents were within eye and earshot and completely ignored them as they wove a path of destruction. Watching them subsequently on the camera was eye opening in terms of their speed and destructiveness. I truly would not have thought that damage was possible in that amount of time, but video does not lie. I am guessing it was not their first rodeo of destruction. I also saw on the video that the kids were okay for the first 10 minutes or so were fine, but they obviously got bored as their parents shopped and that is when the crap happened. What happened when you called the police? Did you take them to small claims court? Did you confront the parents/kids? Everything you said indicates that a generic parents control your kids sign really doesn't do much. Some people are idiots. But again I stand by the fact if I walk into a store with kids at the age mine are, and they are not allowed to browse on their own I will simply just leave and spend my money elsewhere.
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milocat
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,469
Location: 55 degrees north in Alberta, Canada
Mar 18, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
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Post by milocat on Jul 9, 2018 18:55:31 GMT
They needed to have a bigger bolded more serious well placed sign than a hidden one that said unattended children will be given an expresso and a puppy. I would assume that was a joke sign, especially since it wasn't right on the door.
Unattended means different things for different kids in different store settings. Unattended always would mean in a different aisle. But as far as keeping a 10-13 yo within an arms length, no, not unless they were known to have issues.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 3, 2024 0:03:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 20:24:33 GMT
In Walmart, my 14 yo can wander about an aisle away, within earshot when I say her name.
In a smaller boutique, within eye sight and a gritted mom teeth “don’t touch ANYTHING!” With smoke coming out of my ears. My kid is two things: touchy/grabby and clumsy. Not a good combo. If she’s being a particular pill that day I’ll keep her in arms length or just skip boutique shopping altogether.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 2,945
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Jul 9, 2018 20:31:53 GMT
You and I sound like we parent much the same way. In my op I called it “run of the mill” since it wasn’t a super fancy high end antique store. I get that she is trying to protect assets and that all kids are different, but I’m surprised when people jump to the worst case scenario about upper elementary aged and older kids. We literally were in the place less than 30 seconds when this happened. Watch for a couple minutes first and use a kinder approach if you care about customer service and sales as much as you care about the “stuff.”No, we didn’t buy anything. I guess I feel that if a child is of an age where I can leave him at home for a couple hours, can successfully save and buy stuff, clean a bathroom, make simple foods, go into other people’s home without constant supervision, successfully travel out of the country for ten days and not break anything the entire time, they can probably navigate an antique store with moderate monitoring and proper reminders, and they should be able to navigate a normal store with light monitoring. My boys are still “children”but they also will be in middle school in a year (and some of my friends’ kids in other districts start middle school in 5th grade this next year) Yes, ten year olds are goofy and often annoying (mine as much or more than others), but keeping them at arms length or closer seems over the top to me as long as they are following the rules of not touching without an adult (which is the family rule in antique and higher end fragile shops). They break the rule or show any signs of rebellion, treat them like a five year old. Yes, I still remove my kids from situations if needed, but we “go” and do stuff a lot and we are finally at the point where it has become unusual to remove them (now it’s usually if they are bickering or the DS who has ADHD if he isn’t medicated, but I don’t shop with him in antique stores if he isn’t). Like I said, we were just in Iceland for ten days. They walked through stores at their own pace, found bathrooms, helped their grandparents through places, didn’t fall into waterfalls or cliffs while hiking in the rain, etc... I know that the shop owner doesn’t know that, but they are at an age I wouldn’t expect the worst imo. Thanks for the responses. I’ll try to be a bit more anal until they are in high school while in antique stores. I think unless you have worked retail, you don't really understand how much damage unattended kids can do in a very small amount of time. Bu unattended, I mean kids who are not under your hand. A kid five feet away can destroy an expensive piece of furniture in less than a minute by breaking glass, kicking a leg out, scratching a wood surface, etc. The destruction = lost profits. For a small business owner, that kind of loss can be serious. And the age of the child really does not matter -- some of the worst damage is done by older kids who should know better, should behave better. And should have been parented better. Last week, as an example, we had two kids aged about 8-9 cause over $350 worth of damage in 4 minutes. They destroyed 22 items in that time, plus poured liquids all over shelves and the floor -- which could have led to another customer getting hurt and suing us. Their parents were within eye and earshot and completely ignored them as they wove a path of destruction. Watching them subsequently on the camera was eye opening in terms of their speed and destructiveness. I truly would not have thought that damage was possible in that amount of time, but video does not lie. I am guessing it was not their first rodeo of destruction. I also saw on the video that the kids were okay for the first 10 minutes or so were fine, but they obviously got bored as their parents shopped and that is when the crap happened. My guess is that Iceland may have better behaved children there, so shopkeepers are more tolerant. Here, unattended kids cause serious lost profits and if you try to say something to parents they, at best, get bent out of shape or at worst, threaten to assault you for daring to say one word as their precious snowflake destroys hundreds of dollars of merchandise. I can also tell you that not once have I had a parent offer to pay for the damage caused. And if you mention it, they get very aggressive with you or run out of the store. I have seen a lot and know people can be really horrible, but I also know what you talk about here is not the norm. I have worked retail. My parents owned a drugstore for 29 years (my mom was the third adult with us in the store yesterday)and I worked there, a large department store and a scrapbook store. I have even had retail buyer experience. I also teach and have taught tweens and teens for 21years. Really bad things can and do happen, but we can’t base teaching, customer service or profiling on the worst case scenario. Certainly keep the worst case in mind, but we can’t have a healthy and inclusive culture if we expect the worst all the time. Don’t be a doormat but don’t be an asshole either. That’s my retail, teaching and parenting philosophy I guess. Also, I don’t think it was an Iceland thing. My kids go all kinds of places and people don’t usually expect the worst when we walk in the door. My point was that my kids aren’t the poster children for mature behavior, but they can and do function without heavy handed monitoring at all times (at ten...not talking five here).
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,905
Member is Online
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jul 9, 2018 20:49:01 GMT
Op, it sounds like your son was reasonably close to you and was being supervised. I bet the owners are just tired of kids running wild.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 9, 2018 22:08:59 GMT
It’s all context-dependent. I have a twelve-year-old, and while I now let him go to Starbucks or a game store by himself entirely, in an antique store with irreplaceable breakables, I’d probably keep him right next to me. I agree that it’s context dependent I work with 4-H kids that includes that age and most of the kids are amazing. But the few that don’t listen, are less careful or less parented are really hard to deal with. And the things some kids destroy, it’s crazy the disregard many people (kids and adults) have for other people’s things! These days too many parents get offended if you dare speak to their child or them about the child's behavior.
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Post by drummergirl65 on Jul 10, 2018 2:50:11 GMT
I’ve worked retail in a large store. Sometimes it’s the 10-12 year olds who are the worst. They don’t need direct supervision so parents let them wander. Then they get bored and start being destructive. In your case OP, it sounds like yours were fine but maybe that shopkeeper was cranky or maybe they just wrote off a whole bunch of stuff because someone else’s kids were little devils. Who knows? I remember watching in amazement that someone’s darling had wiped chocolate all over expensive textiles then carried on to the next department before she was stopped. Ugh
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Post by crazy4scraps on Jul 10, 2018 6:01:32 GMT
I think unless you have worked retail, you don't really understand how much damage unattended kids can do in a very small amount of time. Bu unattended, I mean kids who are not under your hand. A kid five feet away can destroy an expensive piece of furniture in less than a minute by breaking glass, kicking a leg out, scratching a wood surface, etc. The destruction = lost profits. For a small business owner, that kind of loss can be serious. And the age of the child really does not matter -- some of the worst damage is done by older kids who should know better, should behave better. And should have been parented better. Last week, as an example, we had two kids aged about 8-9 cause over $350 worth of damage in 4 minutes. They destroyed 22 items in that time, plus poured liquids all over shelves and the floor -- which could have led to another customer getting hurt and suing us. Their parents were within eye and earshot and completely ignored them as they wove a path of destruction. Watching them subsequently on the camera was eye opening in terms of their speed and destructiveness. I truly would not have thought that damage was possible in that amount of time, but video does not lie. I am guessing it was not their first rodeo of destruction. I also saw on the video that the kids were okay for the first 10 minutes or so were fine, but they obviously got bored as their parents shopped and that is when the crap happened. My guess is that Iceland may have better behaved children there, so shopkeepers are more tolerant. Here, unattended kids cause serious lost profits and if you try to say something to parents they, at best, get bent out of shape or at worst, threaten to assault you for daring to say one word as their precious snowflake destroys hundreds of dollars of merchandise. I can also tell you that not once have I had a parent offer to pay for the damage caused. And if you mention it, they get very aggressive with you or run out of the store. I’ve worked retail in a large store. Sometimes it’s the 10-12 year olds who are the worst. They don’t need direct supervision so parents let them wander. Then they get bored and start being destructive. In your case OP, it sounds like yours were fine but maybe that shopkeeper was cranky or maybe they just wrote off a whole bunch of stuff because someone else’s kids were little devils. Who knows? I remember watching in amazement that someone’s darling had wiped chocolate all over expensive textiles then carried on to the next department before she was stopped. Ugh I owned a retail store for a number of years too and witnessed my share of parenting fails. I would cringe when I would see someone come into my store and let their kid wander. As a result, when I had my own kid, I made sure to teach her how to behave in a store from very early on. While she does a better job than most when it comes to behaving herself, even at 8 she doesn’t get a pass from me when we’re out and about. She is either right next to me or in the basket of the cart still (her choice, because she usually doesn’t want to walk around). Even kids with the best manners, etc. are still kids and they do stupid stuff all.the.time. Usually because they just aren’t thinking things all the way through or paying attention. Just last weekend I had to stop my kid from drawing a picture with a Sharpie pen on a thin piece of writing paper just before it started to bleed through and onto our dining table. The kid KNOWS I don’t want her using those pens to draw with because they bleed through. But as others have mentioned, in a moment of boredom she sees a pen and a piece of paper, gets a creative urge and the next thing I know she’s scrubbing Sharpie off of something with a Magic Eraser. Honestly, I would rather not even take my kid into a store like that because I know she will get bored long before I’m done looking and I don’t want to listen to the whining that will inevitably follow. It really ruins the whole experience, LOL.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 10, 2018 10:31:46 GMT
At what age and how far? I ask because we have had a couple situations recently, one today, in stores. My my boys are 10.5. I will say that one of my twins is quite small for his age. We went into a run of the mill antique store today. Three adults and two kids. We entered and were not loud nor making quick movements. My son walked about ten to fifteen feet away (in eyesight of all adults) to look at a sign (he did not touch) and immediately he/we got the snippy, “you need to be with an adult at all times.” A couple points: there was no noticeable sign upon entering. When we left, I had to look around a bunch of ads and signs to see a small handwritten sign on the window next to the door that read: unattended children will be given an espresso and a puppy (eye roll). Also, personally I feel “unattended children” varies from place to place and can be situational, but a well behaved child of probably 8 and up can certainly just be within eye/ear of an adult and not less than an arms length in a normal “stuff”store (like nothing that can kill them). Honestly my dh is more likely to break something than my kids. If ten is too young, at what age? 13?16? Older? full disclosure—there are days where I would not let my one son further than an arm length, but that’s when he is unmedicated. He was on meds today so was acting in a neurortypical ten year old way. And—-I wasn't pea livid and the boys stayed within a couple ft the rest of the time. Just a bit “miffed”and my son felt bad. He thinks they think he is younger than his brother too. Go back and ask for his puppy. I hate signs like that
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,313
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jul 10, 2018 12:03:07 GMT
Honestly, I would rather not even take my kid into a store like that because I know she will get bored long before I’m done looking and I don’t want to listen to the whining that will inevitably follow. It really ruins the whole experience, LOL. I have 2 young teens who love antique stores. I blame their grandmothers. I am the one who gets bored and fidgety. So if we are strolling through shops it's because they want to go in not me. I get you with the Sharpies. They make me nervous lol.
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jul 10, 2018 12:10:08 GMT
And the age of the child really does not matter -- some of the worst damage is done by older kids who should know better, should behave better. And should have been parented better. Last week, as an example, we had two kids aged about 8-9 cause over $350 worth of damage in 4 minutes. They destroyed 22 items in that time, plus poured liquids all over shelves and the floor -- which could have led to another customer getting hurt and suing us. Their parents were within eye and earshot and completely ignored them as they wove a path of destruction. Watching them subsequently on the camera was eye opening in terms of their speed and destructiveness. I truly would not have thought that damage was possible in that amount of time, but video does not lie. I am guessing it was not their first rodeo of destruction. I also saw on the video that the kids were okay for the first 10 minutes or so were fine, but they obviously got bored as their parents shopped and that is when the crap happened. What happened when you called the police? Did you take them to small claims court? Did you confront the parents/kids? Everything you said indicates that a generic parents control your kids sign really doesn't do much. Some people are idiots. But again I stand by the fact if I walk into a store with kids at the age mine are, and they are not allowed to browse on their own I will simply just leave and spend my money elsewhere. The destruction by children of negligent parents has been true and getting worse in the last ten years, no matter where I have lived (in the upper midwest and the deep south) or the type of store I have worked in. 1. If I call the police, they would tell me it would take them 40-60 minutes to get there. (No gun = no priority. Again, this has been true everywhre I have worked retail -- retail theft and destruction is a low priority.) The average shopper, let alone people who willfully cause that kind of destruction, are not going to be there in an hour. 2. Even if the cops show up and issue a citation (they won't be arrested), taking them to small claims court is a waste of time and energy because you don't get money out of a small claims court judgment in your favor. There is no teeth to those judgments. Nothing happens. 3. You cannot "confront" parents or kids who behave like that for fear for your own safety. You have to be exceedingly cautious about talking to parents who allow their kids to behave like that. Exceedingly. Parents who allow willful destruction by their kids have a strong tendency to get defensive, then go on the offensive when you bring it up. Verbal abuse is often followed by threats of physical violence. I have also had parents push into my face, wave fists at me and try to push me. So the end result is the merch is ruined and prices go up.
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Post by katlaw on Jul 10, 2018 14:19:35 GMT
As someone who has worked in retail I would have just said Hi to your son and something like "We have a lot of breakable stuff in here, please be really careful not to touch anything" Or..said to one of the adults "We have a lot of breakable items in the store, our store policy is that parents and children stay close together" The store employee could have and should have handled the situation more professionally. Because in the end being made to feel unwelcome means you don't spend money there and you don't come back to spend money there. She reacted by snapping at your kid when he had not given her reason to. Whether other people's kids had broken stuff in the past or not her comment made your son feel bad and you question your parenting.
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