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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 11, 2018 16:57:58 GMT
I'll just preface this post by saying, I love my husband. He isn't abusive. 99% of the time we are happy. We rarely fight, but when we do, it follows a pattern and I want to break the pattern.
On Monday, my DH was trying to be helpful, but he stepped into something with my 18 year old DD that really wasn't his place or his business. She came at me, guns ablazing as though I was the person who was trying to orchestrate something behind her back. It wasn't true. I wasn't even aware of what DH was up to. I calmed her down. But then I said to DH, this really wasn't your place or your business. And because you tried to overstep with her, she came at me quite nasty. And I had absolutely nothing to do with it. I didn't deserve that. His response was, "I'm sorry, but....justify, justify, justify." I told him that it is completely possible to have had good intentions but still hurt someone. I tried to explain to him that when you give an apology you should not try to justify your actions. Just empathize with someone. This lesson, he cannot seem to wrap his brain around. My mother does the same damn thing. It just drives me nuts. He finally got to the point where he said, don't talk to me for the rest of the night. This is his second fighting weapon. The silent treatment. He knows it irritates me to no end. I hate having issues unresolved and I hate being ignored. So Monday night, I made myself some dinner and plopped down on the other end of the couch, crocheted and ignored him too.
Yesterday, I didn't text him all day. I got home, the kitchen was a mess. I made some beer bread and a big pot of soup, while I cleaned the kitchen. I said nothing. When dinner was ready, I simply said, dinner is ready. We ate. I put some snickerdoodle bar cookies in the oven (his favorite) and when he asked what smelled good, I told him I had made some cookies. That was all I said for the rest of the night. It irritated me so much, I went to bed at 9 pm.
Today, I woke up to a text of him thanking me for the dinner last night and the cookies. I have not said anything. He seems completely unbothered by this, at least last night he did. Meanwhile, my poor stomach is in knots and I feel terrible. I just want things alright again. But I thought maybe he would see it from my perspective that he dismissed my thoughts on Monday and then because he didn't like what I was saying, he gave me the silent treatment which bothers me to no end. I thought if I treated him the same way, he would understand my feelings, but it doesn't seem to be bothering anybody but me. Usually, I just let it go. I hate games. I hate intentional meanness. I hate the idea of punishing someone. I hate conflict. But I'm tired of being jerked around.
Can anyone relate to this? How can I solve this? Is it a lost cause?
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rickmer
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Post by rickmer on Jul 11, 2018 17:03:35 GMT
he likely knows the silent treatment bugs you so is putting up a front of it not bothering him.
i understand the mentality of apologize/justify... i really do. he was trying to explain to you that while the end result wasn't what he was going for, he did go in with "good intentions". so he doesn't feel he should be blamed and "hey, i did apologize".
maybe a conversation about "i understand that wasn't what you intended to happen. but when you apologize and then tell me afterwards why you did it, it kinda feels to me like 'sorry, not sorry'". which of course, he may or may not understand.
perhaps the resolution is "i am glad you apologized, please don't do that again, no matter how well intended you are" and let it go?
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2018 17:11:13 GMT
I think one thing you have to realize is that not everyone views the "silent treatment" the same way. My husband and I are both big debaters. It can turn into a freaking nightmare when we have an argument as we both go into debate mode and the smallest thing blows out of proportion as we try to "win" the argument. Several times I've just said I'm done discussing as I know that what we both need is a bit of time to step back and regain perspective. I need that quiet time and I'm not upset that things are unresolved as inevitably we'll both realize that we're being goofy and can move on. If you husband sees the quiet time that way, unfortunately you giving him the same treatment probably didn't bother him at all kwim?
I don't like the idea of "don't talk to me for the rest of the night" as it sounds petty. Him being able to say, "hey let's step back and regroup" shouldn't be viewed as a weapon to you IMO. I think finding a way for some space, but also ensuring you ultimately feel acknowledged and resolving this issues should be the focus.
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 11, 2018 17:13:10 GMT
i understand the mentality of apologize/justify... i really do. he was trying to explain to you that while the end result wasn't what he was going for, he did go in with "good intentions". so he doesn't feel he should be blamed and "hey, i did apologize". maybe a conversation about "i understand that wasn't what you intended to happen. but when you apologize and then tell me afterwards why you did it, it kinda feels to me like 'sorry, not sorry'". which of course, he may or may not understand. perhaps the resolution is "i am glad you apologized, please don't do that again, no matter how well intended you are" and let it go? I can relate to and agree with this. I will also say, DH and I had to learn to fight fair per se. I wanted to talk things through and *resolve* them. That isn't how DH processes. He listens intently then he walks away. If he has questions over the next few days, he'll ask for clarification, then he truly attempts to make a change if he feels it's warranted. I wanted to talk about it. Then check in when he was contemplating the situation. Then ask if everything was ok. Then ask if he had changed his wayward ways (lol) etc etc etc. I had to come to the realization that I have the "right" in our relationship to be heard. He listens to me. Then he has the right to contemplate it and I have to drop.it. Full stop. He has as much of a right to how he wants to process as I do. He gives me the consideration of hearing me. Then I have to "hear" him. |
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 11, 2018 17:14:01 GMT
he likely knows the silent treatment bugs you so is putting up a front of it not bothering him. Or maybe he didn't want to say something or have the OP say something they would regret. Sometimes it is better to cool off and not speak for a while. Some people need a little distance from a situation to see multiple sides to it. OP, why do you get to decide how he handles conflict? It seems like you want it your way only. What if next time you agree to not talking for the rest of the night and you both had the expectation of then talking at a certain point the next day. Yesterday, I didn't text him all day. I got home, the kitchen was a mess. I made some beer bread and a big pot of soup, while I cleaned the kitchen. I said nothing. When dinner was ready, I simply said, dinner is ready. We ate. I put some snickerdoodle bar cookies in the oven (his favorite) and when he asked what smelled good, I told him I had made some cookies. That was all I said for the rest of the night. It irritated me so much, I went to bed at 9 pm. Today, I woke up to a text of him thanking me for the dinner last night and the cookies. I have not said anything. It seems to me that you continued the silent treatment. He spoke by asking about the smell. He texted this morning. You are the one who hasn't said anything back. |
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Post by Zee on Jul 11, 2018 17:16:54 GMT
I'd far rather deal with the silent treatment than endless unproductive argument. Maybe that's how he sees it? As more of a time out?
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Post by pjynx on Jul 11, 2018 17:19:40 GMT
I don't have any advice but wanted you to know that you are not alone. My dh does the same thing. Doesn't go so far as saying "I'm not speaking to you" but will walk around slamming doors, avoid talking except to yell once in awhile as he's exiting the room (or sometimes leaving the house). A few hours later, he goes about his business as though nothing happened. Never speaks of it again unless I bring it up, in which case he gets very defensive but still says very little. Annoying as hell!
Pam
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Post by Prenticekid on Jul 11, 2018 17:22:02 GMT
I don't even call that the silent treatment. And, most anyone can tell you that a silent treatment doesn't include a "don't talk to me..." The problem seems to be more that you did not know when to stop, so he told you when. Someone's need to keep an argument (or any conversation) going past its initial purpose does not trump another person's not needing to keep hearing it. You told him the problem and he said he was sorry. He also gave you an explanation that you called "justifying." Maybe it was just an explanation. Either way, the conversation was done and you are the one who wanted to keep it going. What did you want out of it, really? And, then you make him his favorite cookie? You sure wanted something!
Frankly, in this situation, it sounds like you are the one giving the silent treatment. He just wanted you to stop beating a dead horse.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Jul 11, 2018 17:24:30 GMT
I sent you a pm.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2018 17:27:53 GMT
.... He just wanted you to stop beating a dead horse. Had to repeat this as it so resonated with me. Yes sometimes "talking it out" and "resolving" is just beating a dead horse. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 11, 2018 17:30:24 GMT
Darcy Collins, Zee, freecharlie, and PrenticekidIf he wanted a break, I could get that. But this is recurring and never is the issue revisited. It's not like he says, I'll get back with you on Wednesday. I made the cookies for two reasons 1) I've been trying to transition to a WFPB diet and I've been trying to use up all the non-compliant food in the house and 2) because I naively thought that maybe if I did something nice for him, he would say something about what happened. The truth is, nothing is gained here. So most likely when I get home tonight, I'll just go forward and let it go. Because that seems to be the only thing to do. We won't discuss it. And then it will be lather, rinse, repeat.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
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Post by georgiapea on Jul 11, 2018 17:38:35 GMT
My DH is a Master in the excuse department. The king of excuses. It makes me CRAZY and I respond in crazy reaction! Yet nothing ever changes. He makes justifying excuses for his actions and because he does I blow us. Not over the action, over the FREAKING EXCUSE. And I do not make him cookies!
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Jul 11, 2018 17:42:45 GMT
At this point in the game, it is highly unlikely that he is going to change how he deals with conflict. You have a choice, keep complaining about how he handles it while working yourself into knots OR you change how you look at his response and how YOU react. You are all that can be controlled. When things are calmer, you need to think about ways that you can react that might well change the outcome.
Another question you should think about. How much of this anger and anxiety is really about repeating the issues you have with your mother? I suspect you are doing a bit of transference without realizing it. I did the same with DH on an issue I had with DH. Once I finally realized (about 30 years too late) where the real problem was, I was able to change my pattern of dealing with him, as well as my expectations.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Jul 11, 2018 17:42:56 GMT
I am sorry.
The silent treatment is a hot button for me due to my childhood. I broke up with more than one boyfriend back in the day over it. It is a power play that punishes.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 11, 2018 17:43:31 GMT
maybe a conversation about "i understand that wasn't what you intended to happen. but when you apologize and then tell me afterwards why you did it, it kinda feels to me like 'sorry, not sorry'". which of course, he may or may not understand. I might try this. Next week. LOL! |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 11, 2018 17:44:53 GMT
Darcy Collins , Zee , freecharlie , and Prenticekid If he wanted a break, I could get that. But this is recurring and never is the issue revisited. It's not like he says, I'll get back with you on Wednesday. I made the cookies for two reasons 1) I've been trying to transition to a WFPB diet and I've been trying to use up all the non-compliant food in the house and 2) because I naively thought that maybe if I did something nice for him, he would say something about what happened. The truth is, nothing is gained here. So most likely when I get home tonight, I'll just go forward and let it go. Because that seems to be the only thing to do. We won't discuss it. And then it will be lather, rinse, repeat. What do you feel right now is not resolved? Is it the but after the apology or do you feel the issue with your daughter isn't resolved? I personally think there's a lot of similarities between justifying and explaining. I think often one person is explaining and the other sees it as justifying. As you mentioned your mother, you might think about whether that aspect of your relationship with HER is coloring how you see this interaction with him. Just for a different perspective, I actually see the straight "I'm sorry" as somewhat unhelpful. I actually WANT to know why. |
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 11, 2018 17:44:54 GMT
I'd far rather deal with the silent treatment than endless unproductive argument. Maybe that's how he sees it? As more of a time out? I know that is how I see not talking something through. Some arguments just need some time to air out. I argued with my husband yesterday about something stupid he did and I was ready to have a quiet evening. He came home from work telling all about his day. He clearly did not get what I wanted. I don't think your husband thinks there is a right and wrong here. He might see that there are two points of view and if you agree to that, then all is good. |
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Post by hdoublej on Jul 11, 2018 17:51:16 GMT
I get what you are saying. I'm more of a "discuss it until there's a resolution" kind of person and DH is more of a "processor" personality. I will never forget an argument we had about something he had done (I don't remember now what it was). I said: "it makes me SO mad when you do that". His response: "Fine, I won't do it again." I stood there kind of like  . I wanted to argue, I was mad and wanted to express it further but his reaction just dumbfounded me. He wasn't angry or anything just a, "Fine, I won't do it again." So then I didn't know which made me more angry  , the fact that he did what he did or the fact that he wouldn't argue about it . Have you ever seen the show "How I Met Your Mother"? In it there is a couple that's having an argument but they have an agreement that at any point, one of them can say "pause" and they have to quit arguing. Then when the person is ready to continue (it may even be a couple days later) they can say "unpause" and continue the discussion. During the "pause", life continues normally as if you weren't fighting. Maybe something like that would be easier for you both. Maybe have a discussion about how you both argue at a time when you aren't arguing would be beneficial. Maybe it's the way he's saying he needs a break to process that's bothering you more than the break itself. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 11, 2018 17:51:54 GMT
I'm going to ramble a bit, and I probably won't make much sense, but here goes: you made him cookies in hopes that he'd be open to discussing the topic again... but did you TELL him you wanted to talk about the issue again? maybe he thinks it's been settled and he's moved past it mentally? my BF is one of those people who blows up, and then is fine. I want to talk endlessly, to 'discuss' and 'analyze' things to the Nth degree. he doesn't. I have to TRUST him, and BELIEVE him when he says 'it's okay, we're good' and then I have to let it go. It sounds like you need to TELL YOUR DH WHAT YOU WANT out of a discussion, but also to be open to LISTENING TO HIM TELL YOU what he wants, why he did what he did, and why he felt like it wasn't outside his boundaries. It sounds like he did whatever he did with good intentions on his part. Did he know beforehand that whatever-it-was was a situation you did NOT want him to get involved in? You might think it's 'justifying' or 'excusing' but to HIM, he could be seeing it as he's giving you evidence / backup data / explanation to more fully explain the situation. (I'm the one in our relationship who does that-- I truly never think I'm making *excuses* when I say the extra stuff, I see it as trying to show the background to explain WHY I did what I did, or WHY I said what I said.) I agree with whoever said that it sounds like you want him to fight/communicate the way YOU want him to. But in my opinion, you both need to compromise in situations like this. (and I'm saying that as another person who usually wants communication done the way I want to do it-- but when I step back and look at it, I do see that's a bit unreasonable.) ETA: I tried to explain to him that when you give an apology you should not try to justify your actions. Just empathize with someone. This lesson, he cannot seem to wrap his brain around. I am a person who does this, too- and I truly do it with good intentions. My BF will basically be venting, and want commiseration. What I try to do is give ideas for how to fix the situation, when that's NOT what he wants at all- he just wants me to empathize with him and say 'yeah, I understand how horrible that is' but NOT to say 'here's how you can fix it'. I have to say, as a person who does this, it is TOUGH to break a pattern like that, especially if you don't understand what the other person wants out of the discussion. If he told me going into the discussion that what he wants is only me giving him a sympathetic ear, then it would be a lot easier. The same might be true of your husband and his apology. |
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Jul 11, 2018 17:52:32 GMT
because I naively thought that maybe if I did something nice for him, he would say something about what happened. Here's the thing, or at least what the thing would be in my house. All he sees is you did something nice for him. My DH is capable of understanding I'm upset, but not capable of getting WHY I'm upset. and that's an important distinction for him. He's a big why person. if you can't answer the why it has no value. We've finally come to an understanding that he doesn't always need a why, he needs a she's upset and expects a response. doesn't mean he does it every time, it means he goes into the mode of she's upset and I need to work to fix it or I'm going to have bigger issues down the line. Have you read Deborah Tannen? You just Don't understand She's an author and researcher and writes really good books on how people communicate. Men and women in relationships, in the workplace, mothers and daughters etc. Her breakdown on men and women in relationships is similar to Mars and Venus without all the planet stuff. Men see things one way, women see them a different way. When presented with a problem, the majority of men try to fix it, while the majority of women offer support and let people know they aren't alone as they try to fix it. So the man is standing there saying look at me I've fixed the problem while the woman is sitting there going I didn't want you to fix it I wanted you to listen to how I feel unsupported in working through how to fix it. The clue is understanding what the other person is asking for and being willing to give that. I'm really generalizing here and highly recommend any of her books. |
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 11, 2018 17:52:54 GMT
He apologized and then tried to explain why he did or said what he did. I don’t view that as a justification. He was trying to explain his intent.
Methinks the silent treatment is really coming from you.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 11, 2018 17:53:48 GMT
My DH is a Master in the excuse department. The king of excuses. It makes me CRAZY and I respond in crazy reaction! Yet nothing ever changes. He makes justifying excuses for his actions and because he does I blow us. Not over the action, over the FREAKING EXCUSE. And I do not make him cookies! This is exactly it, except I don't yell. In fact, on Monday, I told him how I felt in a text message. There's no emotion whatsoever. Even if he had responded by saying, "I'm sorry she got angry with you. I know how much you've been trying to handle all the explosions coming from your DD and even though I was trying to help, it couldn't have felt good to have her explode at you for something I did." Hug. Really, that's what I was looking for. |
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bethany102399
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Post by bethany102399 on Jul 11, 2018 17:54:32 GMT
but did you TELL him you wanted to talk about the issue again? THIS |
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jul 11, 2018 17:57:12 GMT
I think you should of told your daughter that you were not getting in the middle either. She was mad because her dad inserted himself into her business trying to help. Now she came to you guns ablazing about something that didn't involve you. You should of told her to go talk to her dad. Why did you have to correct your husband about something that was between father/daughter?
All 3 of you are kind of "at fault" at this point. So you all have to decide to either let it go or sit down, apologize to each other or continue the way things are going.
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Post by Linda on Jul 11, 2018 17:57:31 GMT
.... He just wanted you to stop beating a dead horse. Had to repeat this as it so resonated with me. Yes sometimes "talking it out" and "resolving" is just beating a dead horse. YES - this so much. This happens SO often in my life...stuff from last year, 5 years ago, even 25 years ago needs to be talked out and resolved and gone over again...it's over, it's done, I've apologised...LET IT GO |
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Peal
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Jun 25, 2014 22:45:40 GMT
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Post by Peal on Jul 11, 2018 17:59:19 GMT
Is he making excuses, or explaining his actions? Because those are two different things. An excuse is "I didn't do anything wrong" and an explanation is "This is why I did what I did, even if it was wrong." I don't know which he was doing, I'm assuming you do.
As to the silent treatment. He may need to back off of a situation because the conflict makes him uncomfortable, however, since he has always done this and it's never produced results, he may not know how to come back from it and calmly discuss whatever the conflict is rationally. You two need to come up with a way that he can back out of an argument, think about it quietly, then come back and discuss it again. Not just not speak until enough time has passed that it's just "forgotten". You need to be okay with his need to step away. He needs to be okay with your need to talk it to death if necessary. There has to be a middle place that you can meet.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jul 11, 2018 18:01:46 GMT
basically, bethany102399 said what I was trying to, only she said it much better, lol. I'm going to have to go look for that author and the book you recommend. |
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Jul 11, 2018 18:01:52 GMT
His response was, "I'm sorry, but....justify, justify, justify." I've heard that when you say anything and then say BUT it cancels out everything you said before the but. You can tell him that. He's doing the 'sorry, not sorry' when he says BUT blah, blah, blah. It's very hard to apologize and mean it AND not justify your actions. We've all been there I'm sure. I think it takes a lot of empathy and truly seeing how what you did/said hurt the other person. A natural reaction is to explain yourself and justify your actions. My favorite apology is "I'm sorry you feel that way." What?  I don't have much to offer to help but like someone said above, the only thing you can change is your reaction to him. Expect him to act like he always has- because he will- and then go from there. He most likely won't change. It's tough but again that's part of being with another person. |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jul 11, 2018 18:02:43 GMT
My DH is a Master in the excuse department. The king of excuses. It makes me CRAZY and I respond in crazy reaction! Yet nothing ever changes. He makes justifying excuses for his actions and because he does I blow us. Not over the action, over the FREAKING EXCUSE. And I do not make him cookies! This is exactly it, except I don't yell. In fact, on Monday, I told him how I felt in a text message. There's no emotion whatsoever. Even if he had responded by saying, "I'm sorry she got angry with you. I know how much you've been trying to handle all the explosions coming from your DD and even though I was trying to help, it couldn't have felt good to have her explode at you for something I did." Hug. Really, that's what I was looking for. Is this response you were looking for how he normally responds? I would never get that type of response from my dh, so it’s not something I would expect. We don’t communicate in the same style, so I don’t expect him to reply in my style. I feel like there is a bit of assumptions and unspoken expectations. I have had to learn to say what I want, not expect dh to ‘just know’ which is really just guessing. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jul 11, 2018 18:06:52 GMT
How much of this anger and anxiety is really about repeating the issues you have with your mother? I suspect you are doing a bit of transference without realizing it. Actually, a lot of it is. I recently told my mother I've had enough of her. I haven't spoken to her in almost a month and I have no plan to. I am quite tired of her games and I put my foot down with her. I am trying to get my mental house in order on every front. Which is exactly the reason why I decided I was quite tired of this constant justification game my DH plays. Every time he actually says, I'm sorry, it comes out as very much a sorry, not sorry. I said this was an ongoing issue. I'm quite tired of it. Which is why I tried to address it with him. I got resistance from him because it didn't go down the way it usually does. With me just rolling my eyes and moving forward. I actually said something to him...I tried very hard to convey how this makes me feel. Which is why I'm having a hard time with the beating a dead horse analogy. Because usually, I say nothing. The one time I speak up, in text messages no less (so no yelling, no name calling, no crying, no nothing) is apparently beating a dead horse. |
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