MaryMary
Pearl Clutcher
Lazy
Posts: 2,975
Jun 25, 2014 21:56:13 GMT
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Post by MaryMary on Jan 20, 2019 17:18:54 GMT
I hate everyone.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 20, 2019 17:20:00 GMT
You know what our group did when some of the crazy people in D.C. start yelling crap like this? We walked away. This is my thought.
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Post by peano on Jan 20, 2019 17:22:35 GMT
Sometimes you just gotta laugh...or jump off a bridge in despair. I laughed. Thanks.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 20, 2019 17:37:28 GMT
1st the kids are assholes, but the full video does give some context. Apparently the drummer stepped up to try to help diffuse the situation between the students and a second group.
Which leads to this, why didn't the teachers/chaperones intervene before Mr. Phillips stepped in?
As teacher, I would have had the students away from the first group.
We want to blame the students, and rightfully so, but the adults are to blame as well. The school and Church are saying they are investigating the boys, but they need to look at the teachers.
The smirky kid, though, just looks like a dick.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 17:44:50 GMT
When this story first came out, I had the impression this kid inserted himself in front of Nathan Phillips and that the students approached and surrounded his group. After watching this video, it looks like Nathan’s group inserted themselves between two charged groups of people and this kid simply didn’t move out of the way while wearing a smirk:
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Post by monklady123 on Jan 20, 2019 17:44:57 GMT
That video is an hour long...can someone give me the Cliff Notes version? Reading the email from the mother who talked about the "black Muslims" who started it... I see this attitude so much among the trumpites -- when we criticize something that trump did they'll reply with "well look what Bill Clinton did!" -- Yes, Clinton abused his power, and his morals are questionable. He was wrong. Does that make it right for trump to do it now? I always ask "didn't your mother tell you that 'two wrongs don't make a right'?" It reminds me so much of the 2nd graders on the playground...my school has some sort of tree out back on the field that drops these spiky balls. We only have a few rules for the playground and one of them is "NO THROWING THE SPIKY BALLS!" lol. So I see a 2nd grader throwing a ball. Me: "Hey, come here please. You know not to throw those spike balls." Kid: "But Joey did it!" Me: "So even though you know it's not right you think it's okay if Joey did it?"
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Post by tracyarts on Jan 20, 2019 17:49:01 GMT
I went on a trip to D.C. in high school. My classmates and I understood how to handle ourselves in that environment. We came from a diverse lower to working class neighborhood of a huge city. We were used to downtown street corner preachers, conspiracy theorists shouting out warnings to passersby, political activists, picketers, and random crackheads ranting about who knows what in parking lots and at bus stops. We saw a lot of people protesting, especially in the park across from the White House. This was early 1988, so it was a politically charged climate. We understood who it was okay to engage with and how to engage with them. I remember a few of us staying and talking with the person manning the perpetual peace vigil that day for a while. We were fascinated with it and intrigued by it all. To these kids, it was all a sideshow. There was no interest on an intellectual level, only amusement combined with contempt. You know what our group did when some of the crazy people in D.C. start yelling crap like this? We walked away.
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 20, 2019 17:52:27 GMT
When this story first came out, I had the impression this kid inserted himself in front of Nathan Phillips and that the students approached and surrounded his group. After watching this video, it looks like Nathan’s group inserted themselves between two charged groups of people and this kid simply didn’t move out of the way while wearing a smirk: I think the people yelling at the kids also are asses.
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Post by mrssmith on Jan 20, 2019 17:52:39 GMT
Those are the "Black Muslims" intimidating those Catholic Boys??? They stood in one spot and people came up to then to listen to their Bat Shit Crazy Rantings. It was their right to free speech and anyone who didn't want to hear it could just walk away. They were crazy racists too. "Indian means Savage." Gross. That was crazy ugly too. But yes, they could have left and walked away. People chose to engage. Those kids didn't surround those guys and try to intimidate them. The video is almost 2 hours long!
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,969
Jun 25, 2014 23:13:23 GMT
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Post by Nanner on Jan 20, 2019 17:54:39 GMT
Disgusting fuckers. I hope this follows them as they apply for jobs later on.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 20, 2019 18:06:57 GMT
I can't believe people are making excuses for this. That is equally disgusting.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 18:22:41 GMT
I can't believe people are making excuses for this. That is equally disgusting. Not excusing it, but have you watched the other two videos?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 20, 2019 18:25:23 GMT
I’m off to read Sock’s Twitter thread, but having spent 25 minutes scrolling through the context video, what I think this really comes down to is that these kids have been failed. The ignorance, racism and disrespect stand alone. The context does not excuse or explain the stare down, the obvious mocking (some could be just “joining in” but most of it looks pretty mocking and certainly the chants are inappropriate. BUT, let’s just put that aside and cut them some slack and pretend, like the mom is pretending and I’ve seen others imply, that it was just a big misunderstanding. They didn’t really mean disrespect to the Native Americans, they were joining in and/or it was all the “radical Muslims” fault. Who the HELL was in charge and who failed them so horribly? Who did not educate them before hauling them to Washington DC without proper preparation? When you go out of your bubble, you are going to see and hear things that you can’t control and aren’t going to like. Why didn’t anyone explain proper protocol for counter protestors? They were going to a pro-life rally and going to a public place known for second amendment soapboxes and counter protesting. They were absolutely going to be exposed to dissent. Where were the supervisors? WHy was it dusk and they were still on the mall? Smdh. I watched the whole long video. The kids should have been moved out of the way by their chaperones, I doubt that they were prepared for what they encountered. The adults with them were responsible for them and their safety, as well as their behavior. They failed. The school failed and the parents failed them too. Way back on whatever page I said the school/students = Kavanaugh. The thing is, they can expel these kids, but the whole racist ass school will still exist. All white teachers. History of harassing other students of color. History of problematic issues. Allowed a rapist to walk at graduation. This reinforced my feelings! This all has truly made me fear for the future for some of our kids and our country.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,999
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Jan 20, 2019 18:28:54 GMT
The kid stood right in front of him with that look on his face. Phillips did nothing wrong. There is no defense of this.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 20, 2019 18:29:25 GMT
That video is an hour long...can someone give me the Cliff Notes version? Reading the email from the mother who talked about the "black Muslims" who started it... I see this attitude so much among the trumpites -- when we criticize something that trump did they'll reply with "well look what Bill Clinton did!" -- Yes, Clinton abused his power, and his morals are questionable. He was wrong. Does that make it right for trump to do it now? I always ask "didn't your mother tell you that 'two wrongs don't make a right'?" It reminds me so much of the 2nd graders on the playground...my school has some sort of tree out back on the field that drops these spiky balls. We only have a few rules for the playground and one of them is "NO THROWING THE SPIKY BALLS!" lol. So I see a 2nd grader throwing a ball. Me: "Hey, come here please. You know not to throw those spike balls." Kid: "But Joey did it!" Me: "So even though you know it's not right you think it's okay if Joey did it?" Okay but here is what I think I saw. I think I saw the black group (were they Muslims? They kept using the phrase almighty God which I don’t associate with Muslims) doing their free speech thing and saying some stuff that was pretty wrong and racist such as God took the land from the native Americans because they worshipped the wrong thing. The MAGA group was mostly not getting involved but a couple got kind of chesty and some back and forth ensued. The Native American group was not initially involved. I think they were either stepping in between groups or trying to make their way elsewhere when Smirky McSlapmyface got in the way and just stood there and the MAGA group started mocking them and shouting over their song also. IMO the MAGA group looked like a bunch of entitled kids looking for a conflict because they are rich young white kids exercising their privilege. (They are from a well to do suburb and I read McSlapmyface’s mom is a bank VP, they are not poor kids from coal country Kentucky.) I could be wrong but that is what I saw.
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Post by yivit on Jan 20, 2019 18:31:18 GMT
Let me redirect some who are calling the folks from the long video "black muslims." That is NOT how they identify - they identify as part of the "black hebrew israelites" which is not the same.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 7:33:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 18:35:45 GMT
I think they were either stepping in between groups or trying to make their way elsewhere when Smirky McSlapmyface got in the way and just stood there and the MAGA group started mocking them and shouting over their song also. In the video I posted above, it doesn't show the kid getting in the way, but remained standing in the same spot when Mr. Phillips approached him. Perhaps there's another longer video that shows something different?
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Post by yivit on Jan 20, 2019 18:39:43 GMT
I would have to rewatch that almost 2 hour long video again, but from when I watched it earlier (before adequate levels of caffeine), it appeared that the Native Americans had a confrontation with the Black Hebrew Israelites (even formed a circle around them) before they went up to the Catholic school group.
IMO, they all can be accused of in-your-face tactics/activity. Nothing good ever comes of it when you get 2 or more of that type of groups going at it.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 20, 2019 18:40:56 GMT
I think they were either stepping in between groups or trying to make their way elsewhere when Smirky McSlapmyface got in the way and just stood there and the MAGA group started mocking them and shouting over their song also. In the video I posted above, it doesn't show the kid getting in the way, but remained standing in the same spot when Mr. Phillips approached him. Perhaps there's another longer video that shows something different? I guess that’s what some folks call standing your ground. ETA see a few posts down for explanation of my poor sarcasm here.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 20, 2019 18:47:43 GMT
Let me redirect some who are calling the folks from the long video "black muslims." That is NOT how they identify - they identify as part of the "black hebrew israelites" which is not the same. They were quoting the Bible, certainly not Muslims of any kind. Very vocal, loud and had an amplifier. I did not see or hear Mr Nathan Phillips speak at all, definitely not yelling at them. This should not ruin lives, but should be addressed with strong language and lessons. Respect for elders should also be addressed. There was no doubt that Nathan Phillips and the few with him were Native Americans and his people were here long before ALL the rest of us were here whatever color we are!
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Post by Merge on Jan 20, 2019 19:44:29 GMT
In the video I posted above, it doesn't show the kid getting in the way, but remained standing in the same spot when Mr. Phillips approached him. Perhaps there's another longer video that shows something different? I guess that’s what some folks call standing your ground. My parents taught me that when you and an older person are trying to pass the same way, you give way to them. In fact we were taught to give way to pretty much anyone out of simple politeness. Hold doors, step aside, let others go first. Kind of the basic rules of interacting politely with others. The additional context is interesting, but doesn't in any way exonerate the boys IMO. Their willingness to stand there in their MAGA hats and mock their elders reeks of privilege and arrogance. And I can pretty much guarantee that if the groups of people they engaged with had been white, the result would have been completely different.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 20, 2019 20:11:12 GMT
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 20, 2019 20:13:50 GMT
I guess that’s what some folks call standing your ground. My parents taught me that when you and an older person are trying to pass the same way, you give way to them. In fact we were taught to give way to pretty much anyone out of simple politeness. Hold doors, step aside, let others go first. Kind of the basic rules of interacting politely with others. The additional context is interesting, but doesn't in any way exonerate the boys IMO. Their willingness to stand there in their MAGA hats and mock their elders reeks of privilege and arrogance. And I can pretty much guarantee that if the groups of people they engaged with had been white, the result would have been completely different. I can’t wrap my mind around how someone can compare the actions of Nathan Phillips to those of these boys. He was singing the American Indian Movement’s anthem. And they were demonstrating racism and hate. Smacks of the “very fine people” and “both sides” argument to me.
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Post by mustlovecats on Jan 20, 2019 20:23:47 GMT
I guess that’s what some folks call standing your ground. My parents taught me that when you and an older person are trying to pass the same way, you give way to them. In fact we were taught to give way to pretty much anyone out of simple politeness. Hold doors, step aside, let others go first. Kind of the basic rules of interacting politely with others. The additional context is interesting, but doesn't in any way exonerate the boys IMO. Their willingness to stand there in their MAGA hats and mock their elders reeks of privilege and arrogance. And I can pretty much guarantee that if the groups of people they engaged with had been white, the result would have been completely different. Sorry, I didn’t make my sarcasm clear enough. I was trying to refer to stand your ground laws in which some people consider it legitimate to use any action necessary to defend oneself against an imagined threat even if one could simply have walked away. The enablement of confrontation over stepping aside regardless of the cost. This kid could have stepped aside but instead he and his buddies surrounded this man and mock him and shout build the wall at him, making the MaGA bunch the aggressor but the MAGA crowd probably just thought Smirky was standing his ground or standing up for what he believes in or some other way to justify being a shitty little racist. Standing your ground in the context I was using it is Usually a person with privilege leveraging that privilege at someone more vulnerable. I let a few words stand in for a whole thought and it didn’t convey correctly. My apologies. In our family we also step aside and hold doors and say excuse me. You are correct.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,880
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Jan 20, 2019 20:28:34 GMT
I'm already seeing stories saying that the "bad man with the drum" started this entire thing and those kids were just innocently standing there. Hello, have they not seen the video? Those kids are chanting and mocking him! They are not innocent. And the lady in the video is right. It was mob mentality!
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Post by freecharlie on Jan 20, 2019 20:38:37 GMT
Just told my kids if they ever got into someone's face like that, I would kick their ass.
They looked blankly at me so I replied, "apparently people need to state explicitly how to be a decent human and not jackasses"
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Post by Merge on Jan 20, 2019 20:48:39 GMT
My parents taught me that when you and an older person are trying to pass the same way, you give way to them. In fact we were taught to give way to pretty much anyone out of simple politeness. Hold doors, step aside, let others go first. Kind of the basic rules of interacting politely with others. The additional context is interesting, but doesn't in any way exonerate the boys IMO. Their willingness to stand there in their MAGA hats and mock their elders reeks of privilege and arrogance. And I can pretty much guarantee that if the groups of people they engaged with had been white, the result would have been completely different. Sorry, I didn’t make my sarcasm clear enough. I was trying to refer to stand your ground laws in which some people consider it legitimate to use any action necessary to defend oneself against an imagined threat even if one could simply have walked away. The enablement of confrontation over stepping aside regardless of the cost. This kid could have stepped aside but instead he and his buddies surrounded this man and mock him and shout build the wall at him, making the MaGA bunch the aggressor but the MAGA crowd probably just thought Smirky was standing his ground or standing up for what he believes in or some other way to justify being a shitty little racist. Standing your ground in the context I was using it is Usually a person with privilege leveraging that privilege at someone more vulnerable. I let a few words stand in for a whole thought and it didn’t convey correctly. My apologies. In our family we also step aside and hold doors and say excuse me. You are correct. No apology necessary. I'm sorry if I used your comment as a stepping stone to respond to the online multitudes who are saying exactly what you said, but without sarcasm.
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Post by SockMonkey on Jan 20, 2019 21:06:54 GMT
What can white people do to help?
Decenter whiteness. Examine white supremacy in action. Avoid defensiveness. Read widely, especially works by BIPOC (black and indigenous people of color). Read history books not written by white men. Examine our own biases and work to do better.
Call out and challenge our own, especially our elected folks at all levels and spiritual leaders.
If you’re interested in reading indigenous voices, here is a good start :
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Post by scrappintoee on Jan 20, 2019 23:07:51 GMT
I wanted to PUNCH the TV when I saw that kid's smug face !!!!!!!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Jan 20, 2019 23:28:40 GMT
I wanted to PUNCH the TV when I saw that kid's smug face !!!!!!! " class="smile"] I think his 'attitude'/facial expression is what makes the whole thing seem worse.
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