Disruptive fam member at gatherings

This happened to me, too. I'm fairly pretty ill, and then I got cancer. I was shocked and overwhelmed by the love and support of acquaintances, school moms, neighbors. I'm proud, and I refused all at first. Then a very wise person took me aside and asked me to allow people their good will. People wanted to do a good turn, and I finally had the sense to put my deep seated price aside and allowed other people to have a good feeling.

ashley any response from your sister or mom?

You're doing just fine.  What's important is that now you're working on the best solution.  I've never been a believer in all/nothing or black/white.  Life just isn't that way - or it isn't for most people.  There is always a solution, it just sometimes takes some work and thinking outside the box to find it.

Hang in there!

I haven't read all the responses, actually I have only read pages 1 and part of 2, however all I am reading is that for every suggestion that you have been given,  you want to maintain being a victim instead of deciding whether to take some sort of action or not.  

Sometimes in a family honesty comes with consequences and it does depend how you approach people. So what it it upsets your mother or sister - is it better for you and/or your children to be upset by it? 

There is is no way that I would put my children through this on a weekly basis let alone any special occasion like a birthday.

My opinion is that you are being emotionally abused with this situation and for your children you need to step away. 

Just thinking on the keyboard here, and not sure that this is a good idea, but what if you were to record (either video or audio) his bad behavior and typical interactions. Not secretly, but with no drama -- just very matter of fact. If he escalates for the camera then you leave, but if he just carries on you keep it going. Then with no children present, you view it on the tv (big screen adds to the shock value) and discuss it -- sort of Nanny 911 style.

This came to mind because my sons went through a stage of endless squabbling at meals, and it seemed like nothing I did would change the patterns. I did an audio recording of a typical meal, waited a day or two, and then listened closely to the tape and tried to be objective. It was eye opening to me to realize that younger "innocent/good" child was actually provoking many of the fights. Middle "difficult" child was using a loud voice and aggressive manner which came across as really annoying, but he was trying to diffuse the situation in his own way. Oldest "angel child" was intent on being a victim and taking offense when none was intended. I was not fully engaged as I was trying to do too many things at once, and I would jump in to defend that innocent/not innocent child without having followed the whole progression. I had each of my sons listen to the tape with me, and we talked about what was happening, ways we could use better word choices or better behaviors. It was not an angry exchange, but it was very much confrontational, in a loving way. "He was lying!" we rewind, listen again, and I say, "who was lying?" Long pause. "We both were." It was by no means an instant fix, but it was a good tool for our family and our situation.

Ashely,

I'm wondering if seeing the action on a screen would bring the point home to your mom and sister in a new way?

In your place, I would also use a recording to analyze my own reactions to the annoying nephew -- is he triggering me beyond what is objectively reasonable? I too have a nephew who is, everyone agrees, very difficult. But he sets me on edge in a way that other difficult kids do not, and it took some time for me (and my sisters) to realize that he is particularly hard for us to deal with because he reminds us of someone who was very destructive in our childhood. The feelings of being overwhelmed and sucked into the drama, unable to change anything which we had in childhood situations threaten to over take in exchanges with this kid. But realizing that while there are similarities, he is a different person, we are different, more mature, wiser, more powerful player -- all that has helped a lot.

You might also think about the concept that turning your opposition into an ally is a very powerful move. This kid is spoiled, and he's very unpleasant, and you really do not enjoy him. But he must have some currency, and if you can build it, you have new power. I'm not saying that you coddle him or compliment him -- sounds like he already has an overdose of that. But try looking at him as if he were a stranger's child and you wanted to build a positive relationship. What avenues would you take?

One thing I have been learning recently in my own family interactions is that it's very powerful to set a clear limit at the same time as extending a sincere invitation to engage. You're saying, I value relationship -- how about if we make it look like this, not that? And then you are consistent about that messaging. I don't see overnight solutions, but I do see small changes, and I no longer feel helpless or unheard/unseen.


Best wishes. Family dynamics are very challenging, even at the best of times. You do have my sympathy.

I have been following this thread. I have a lot of sympathy for ashley and think she's probably tried everything and was at her wits' end. However, this is not a nice text and I think your sister will be upset and honestly, I think she's right to be upset.

You've told her she is a bad parent and on top of that, you told her how to be a better parent. I think we all know how that works with any parent!

Something more on the lines of:

Hi M. A's behavior is taking a toll on my girls and me and makes what should be a joyful reunion of family into a stressful situation. Last week, when we were talking at the table A [insert behavior here]. The prior week A [insert behavior here]. My girls love playing with A and his behavior with them is always good. That's why these dinners are so difficult for us; we know how charming he can be. I am sure you have seen our stress. We love A and we love you. We love Mom as well and that is why we have continued the dinners for so long while being stressed. I'm sure you can understand that we need to take a step back. I have to be respectful to my own children and show them that our own family rules are paramount. In the future, when A's behavior causes us to feel stress, we will leave. I love you and I love A.

See? You are not accusing her of anything, you are not telling her how to behave and you are not saying that you do everything better. 

FWIW, I am around kids with terrible behavior, but it doesn't stress me out at all. I just feel sad for the kid and the parent. And yes, sometimes I feel a little righteous because my kids aren't doing it, but if I wait long enough, one of my kids will do/say something where I cringe, too. I know it's a lot, but I just don't quite understand why you and the kids are stressed about it and you just don't ignore it.

This is a conversation that should happen in person, not through text.

"Abnormal behavior" is a pretty broad term and brings the boy's mental health into question.

Ya think her sister might not take this very well?


Ashley told the boy that he may not speak to her in a certain way, and how did she follow through the next time the boy spoke to her in that way? Did she ignore him? Did she tell him to take a time-out in the corner? Did she pull him aside and take a quiet, little walk with him, giving him a chance to just talk and tell her what is on his mind? Did she pack up the girls and leave? Or did she just sit there at the time and later contact her sister about his abnormal behavior?

If you tell a child that they may not talk to you or treat you a certain way, you better be prepared to follow through with some particular action the moment that child tries again or you have just taught that kid that 1) they really can talk/treat you that way and 2) your words are hollow.


When my kids were young, we had huge family meals at least once a month and there were a lot of kids fairly close in age. It's not like I don't have any experience here.

Because you are an important adult in this child's life and you have come to a public message board complaining about the way he treats you.

You think you have no responsibility in teaching the boy who you love and see in intimate family dinners regularly?

I have no interest in arguing with you, Ashley. You wanted opinions and you got mine. Take it or leave it. I only want things to be better for you.

leftturnonly The term she used was abhorrent, not abnormal. And from what she’s described, the kid’s behavior is abhorrent. His mom shouldn’t be surprised that anyone is calling the kid out for it especially since she herself has nitpicked at Ashley’s kids for the littlest things. What’s fair game for one ought to be fair game for all, no?

Well, when I read "abhorrent" I right away felt it wouldn't be received well.  If someone said that about my child, my guard would go immediately up. 

Fabulous!  

I apologize if I misstated Ashley's words.

It's a conversation two sisters should have face to face, not through text where it is so much easier to make the kinds of mistakes I just made.

Text abbreviates too much. You miss all the body language that helps put a message in context and when the conversation is about someone's child, it's really important to try to convey all the love that you have.


When you use a word like abhorrent to a mother about her child, you are putting up an instant wall. It doesn't matter if it is true or not, it's a gut reaction that most mothers have no control over. 

And to do that via text, so that there is no way to soften the blow in person? C'mon. That's gonna hurt whoever receives it.



Ashley, I hope you and your sister are able to sit down together and work through this.