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Post by sleepingbooty on Feb 6, 2019 20:40:02 GMT
encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ghettos A ‘ghetto’ is/was specifically used to contain, seperate & oppress people. Purposefully CREATING ghettos was a TOOL used by the Nazis to contain, seperate, oppress & control people during WW2 ( mostly Jews but others as well ) That bears repeating A ghetto is a specific tool intentionally used to purposefully oppress people. I honestly didn’t know that, and I honestly didn’t realize it was derogatory. Obviously, I’ve been living under a rock.. I grew up in low income housing and and sometimes I would joke I lived in the ghetto growing up but I really had no idea. I’m grateful that I’ve been made aware Ghettos have a long history and the current use of the word to sound cool refers to knock-offs and low/poor quality stuff or problem solutions, mostly associated with the Black ghettos. Like hop2 explained and referenced, they are synonymous with terrible oppressed minority sequestration. They are the places those in power forcedly put the unwanted in (and continue to do so in large cities by creating huge blocks of social housing on the outskirts where it's hard to navigate out of, difficult to have access to the "normal" city life).
You can still visit the remains of the WWII ghettos in Europe and I'd highly recommend touring one if you're ever travelling around here. The Venice and Warsaw ghetto tours are great ways to learn more about history, urban development, social exclusion and minorities.
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Post by lasteve1 on Feb 6, 2019 20:53:48 GMT
I find the discussion on this thread really interesting and just wanted to chime in. When it comes to taking offense/offending people, I think there are two cardinal rules that everyone should follow: (1) Everyone is entitled to take offense to anything. This is a personal feeling and not something that anyone else is in a place to judge. I don't think anyone should ever try to say someone else taking offense to something is not justified or is disproportionate--it is a personal feeling and everyone is entitled to their own. (2) No one should opine on whether something is offensive/not offensive unless they fall into the group of people who might be offended (e.g. a man should not say something is not offensive to women, a white person should not say something is not offensive to black people, etc.). I also think it's important to say that I am Jewish by race (not by religion) and have faced discrimination as a result many times throughout my life. Although I do not look as "stereotypically Jewish" as some of my relatives, I do know that some people can guess I'm Jewish just by looking at me. However, I realize that is not the same as the discrimination someone faces for being black because my minority is something that I can "hide" at times, if I want to. I also am not trying to diminish the awful history of discrimination/oppression against African Americans in our country which continues today, but that also doesn't diminish the horrible discrimination/oppression that Jewish people have faced either. I saw April's video and thought it was a poor choice of words, but didn't really take offense... just wrote it off as another insensitive decision she made. But, like I said before, everyone is entitled to their own response and it is perfectly justified for you to feel the way you do and to stop doing business with her brand. I do have to point out one thing you said though that rubs me the wrong way... Marginalized groups can act in discriminatory ways and have prejudices—yet, they cannot be racist as they have no power in the U.S. to systematically oppress groups.
This is not true. Unless you are a WASP straight man, most people are part of a marginalized group and can still contribute to racism/discrimination. While I agree that marginalized groups cannot contribute to racism against their own race, they can still contribute to racism. An African American can contribute to racism against Hispanics, a Hispanic American can contribute to racism against Middle Eastern People, an American of Middle Eastern decent can contribute to racism of Jewish people, etc. Although any one of those groups is too small to systematically oppress a group on their own, if they band together they have an impact. After all, WASP straight men are not the majority of Americans...
And beyond racism, there are other forms of discrimination, such as sexism, based on religion, sexual orientation, etc. that are very prevalent in our country. I think it's important to recognize that anyone can contribute to the problem... and it's all a problem... and we all need to work together to fix it.
That said, like I said above, you are completely justified in your disgust... April is very insensitive and clueless so sadly I am not surprised... and completely justified in your reaction. You have no obligation to her to try to correct her behavior or educate her on her actions and definitely have no obligation to continue giving her business. But, in the interest of trying to repair our country, reaching out to her to let her know that her behavior is improper is ideal... it makes you the stronger person for rising above the discrimination and hopefully she will think twice before saying something insensitive in the future and maybe you have saved someone else from getting offended.
ETA: I just want to add I hope this doesn't come across wrong... I started writing this and then got pulled into something for work and really needed to wrap it up. |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Feb 6, 2019 21:18:20 GMT
I find the discussion on this thread really interesting and just wanted to chime in. When it comes to taking offense/offending people, I think there are two cardinal rules that everyone should follow: (1) Everyone is entitled to take offense to anything. This is a personal feeling and not something that anyone else is in a place to judge. I don't think anyone should ever try to say someone else taking offense to something is not justified or is disproportionate--it is a personal feeling and everyone is entitled to their own. (2) No one should opine on whether something is offensive/not offensive unless they fall into the group of people who might be offended (e.g. a man should not say something is not offensive to women, a white person should not say something is not offensive to black people, etc.). I also think it's important to say that I am Jewish by race (not by religion) and have faced discrimination as a result many times throughout my life. Although I do not look as "stereotypically Jewish" as some of my relatives, I do know that some people can guess I'm Jewish just by looking at me. However, I realize that is not the same as the discrimination someone faces for being black because my minority is something that I can "hide" at times, if I want to. I also am not trying to diminish the awful history of discrimination/oppression against African Americans in our country which continues today, but that also doesn't diminish the horrible discrimination/oppression that Jewish people have faced either. I saw April's video and thought it was a poor choice of words, but didn't really take offense... just wrote it off as another insensitive decision she made. But, like I said before, everyone is entitled to their own response and it is perfectly justified for you to feel the way you do and to stop doing business with her brand. I do have to point out one thing you said though that rubs me the wrong way... Marginalized groups can act in discriminatory ways and have prejudices—yet, they cannot be racist as they have no power in the U.S. to systematically oppress groups.
This is not true. Unless you are a WASP straight man, most people are part of a marginalized group and can still contribute to racism/discrimination. While I agree that marginalized groups cannot contribute to racism against their own race, they can still contribute to racism. An African American can contribute to racism against Hispanics, a Hispanic American can contribute to racism against Middle Eastern People, an American of Middle Eastern decent can contribute to racism of Jewish people, etc. Although any one of those groups is too small to systematically oppress a group on their own, if they band together they have an impact. After all, WASP straight men are not the majority of Americans...
And beyond racism, there are other forms of discrimination, such as sexism, based on religion, sexual orientation, etc. that are very prevalent in our country. I think it's important to recognize that anyone can contribute to the problem... and it's all a problem... and we all need to work together to fix it.
That said, like I said above, you are completely justified in your disgust... April is very insensitive and clueless so sadly I am not surprised... and completely justified in your reaction. You have no obligation to her to try to correct her behavior or educate her on her actions and definitely have no obligation to continue giving her business. But, in the interest of trying to repair our country, reaching out to her to let her know that her behavior is improper is ideal... it makes you the stronger person for rising above the discrimination and hopefully she will think twice before saying something insensitive in the future and maybe you have saved someone else from getting offended.
ETA: I just want to add I hope this doesn't come across wrong... I started writing this and then got pulled into something for work and really needed to wrap it up. You don’t have to agree but racism and prejudices and discrimination are not the same. Racism is systematic oppression. I believe this is one reason why racism continues because society doesn’t understand the difference. Your assessment is based on discrimination and prejudices when speaking of marginalized groups who discriminate, it’s harmful yes, but it doesn’t take housing away from that entire ethnic group, etc. Also, you stated that White males are no longer the majority. But, they hold quite a lot of power still, right and so do White Women who align themselves with racist agendas? As I stated discrimination is not cool—any of it. Yet, this thread was specifically about a White businesswoman perpetuating systemic oppression to her followers, therefore furthering oppression. There was no need to talk about, so what about marginalized folks who are discriminatory. We are now discussing hypothetical situations. I wanted to focus on this issue instead of placing blame back on marginalized groups who were not culprits in this incident. You see, that happens often. Deflecting. Please read “White Fragility,” it can also be a resource. We can all do better. Thank you so much for your feedback, have a wonderful day. |
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Post by lasteve1 on Feb 6, 2019 22:01:40 GMT
You don’t have to agree but racism and prejudices and discrimination are not the same. Racism is systematic oppression. I believe this is one reason why racism continues because society doesn’t understand the difference. Your assessment is based on discrimination and prejudices when speaking of marginalized groups who discriminate, it’s harmful yes, but it doesn’t take housing away from that entire ethnic group, etc. Also, you stated that White males are no longer the majority. But, they hold quite a lot of power still, right and so do White Women who align themselves with racist agendas? As I stated discrimination is not cool—any of it. Yet, this thread was specifically about a White businesswoman perpetuating systemic oppression to her followers, therefore furthering oppression. There was no need to talk about, so what about marginalized folks who are discriminatory. We are now discussing hypothetical situations. I wanted to focus on this issue instead of placing blame back on marginalized groups who were not culprits in this incident. You see, that happens often. Deflecting. Please read “White Fragility,” it can also be a resource. We can all do better. Thank you so much for your feedback, have a wonderful day. I think you have a lot of anger, and rightfully so, our country is in a dark time when it comes to racism, discrimination and hatred. Like I said before, your original reaction to April was completely justified and I fully support it. I will support you all day every day in calling out someone for at best being insensitive and at worst being outright racist. But that wasn't why I commented on this thread... I commented after reading some of the discussion that came as a result. So while your OP was definitely only about April being insensitive and possibly racist, the subsequent discussion expanded from that and THAT is what I was responding to. I am offended at your insinuation that I am part of the problem as "white women who align themselves with racist agendas." Just because my skin is white does not mean that I am not part of the historically most oppressed race in the world. I for sure know what systematic oppression is, I have felt it, I have family members who died in the holocaust and others that have tattoos on their arms as a clear reminder everyday. But this should not be about one-upping, my pain does not make your pain any less. The only reason I bring this up is because I have spent a lot of time and energy OPPOSING racist agendas and I think you assuming otherwise just because of the color of my skin adds to the divide. Systematic oppression is a result of laws, businesses, governments, organizations, etc., making decisions/actions--no matter how small--that make it harder for minorities to get ahead. I know what that is and I agree it is a huge problem. For example, I have definitely felt systematic oppression based on my gender as a female attorney in a primarily male dominated field. But that doesn't mean that the oppression comes just from white men, because it doesn't. It comes from other women as well, who perpetuate and reaffirm the sexist policies. It also comes from men who are not white, I have definitely encountered this it in my career on more than one occasion as well. And that was all my point was, EVERYONE can contribute to the problem, especially people of power, regardless of their race/gender/etc. I think the only way the system is really going to be fixed (which who knows if that is ever possible, but it should certainly be the goal) is if we stop trying to blame certain groups for the problems (although its true that certain groups are definitely more likely to contribute to the problems than others) and start focusing on the specific PEOPLE who are causing the problems. So, just food for thought, but maybe don't say "white women who align themselves with racist agendas" how about you say "people who align themselves with racist agendas" because your statement does two things--it offends white women like me, who DO NOT align themselves with racist agendas, and it excuses people who are not "white women" but still align themselves with racist agendas, because they do exist. You better believe there are some not white people who have chanted "build a wall" (although most of them are definitely white, they are all wrong). I think both of those things are a problem. Now I'm done with my rant, I just wanted to say that in you trying to defend your views you had offended me and I was hoping to have a little broader discussion and not cause drama. I think I need a break from these boards. Good night. |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Feb 6, 2019 22:13:20 GMT
You don’t have to agree but racism and prejudices and discrimination are not the same. Racism is systematic oppression. I believe this is one reason why racism continues because society doesn’t understand the difference. Your assessment is based on discrimination and prejudices when speaking of marginalized groups who discriminate, it’s harmful yes, but it doesn’t take housing away from that entire ethnic group, etc. Also, you stated that White males are no longer the majority. But, they hold quite a lot of power still, right and so do White Women who align themselves with racist agendas? As I stated discrimination is not cool—any of it. Yet, this thread was specifically about a White businesswoman perpetuating systemic oppression to her followers, therefore furthering oppression. There was no need to talk about, so what about marginalized folks who are discriminatory. We are now discussing hypothetical situations. I wanted to focus on this issue instead of placing blame back on marginalized groups who were not culprits in this incident. You see, that happens often. Deflecting. Please read “White Fragility,” it can also be a resource. We can all do better. Thank you so much for your feedback, have a wonderful day. I think you have a lot of anger, and rightfully so, our country is in a dark time when it comes to racism, discrimination and hatred. Like I said before, your original reaction to April was completely justified and I fully support it. I will support you all day every day in calling out someone for at best being insensitive and at worst being outright racist. But that wasn't why I commented on this thread... I commented after reading some of the discussion that came as a result. So while your OP was definitely only about April being insensitive and possibly racist, the subsequent discussion expanded from that and THAT is what I was responding to. I am offended at your insinuation that I am part of the problem as "white women who align themselves with racist agendas." Just because my skin is white does not mean that I am not part of the historically most oppressed race in the world. I for sure know what systematic oppression is, I have felt it, I have family members who died in the holocaust and others that have tattoos on their arms as a clear reminder everyday. But this should not be about one-upping, my pain does not make your pain any less. The only reason I bring this up is because I have spent a lot of time and energy OPPOSING racist agendas and I think you assuming otherwise just because of the color of my skin adds to the divide. Systematic oppression is a result of laws, businesses, governments, organizations, etc., making decisions/actions--no matter how small--that make it harder for minorities to get ahead. I know what that is and I agree it is a huge problem. For example, I have definitely felt systematic oppression based on my gender as a female attorney in a primarily male dominated field. But that doesn't mean that the oppression comes just from white men, because it doesn't. It comes from other women as well, who perpetuate and reaffirm the sexist policies. It also comes from men who are not white, I have definitely encountered this it in my career on more than one occasion as well. And that was all my point was, EVERYONE can contribute to the problem, especially people of power, regardless of their race/gender/etc. I think the only way the system is really going to be fixed (which who knows if that is ever possible, but it should certainly be the goal) is if we stop trying to blame certain groups for the problems (although its true that certain groups are definitely more likely to contribute to the problems than others) and start focusing on the specific PEOPLE who are causing the problems. So, just food for thought, but maybe don't say "white women who align themselves with racist agendas" how about you say "people who align themselves with racist agendas" because your statement does two things--it offends white women like me, who DO NOT align themselves with racist agendas, and it excuses people who are not "white women" but still align themselves with racist agendas, because there are them. You better believe there are some note white people who have chanted "build a wall" (although most of them are definitely white, they are all wrong). I think both of those things are a problem. Now I'm done with my rant, I just wanted to say that in you trying to defend your views you had offended me and I was hoping to have a little broader discussion and not cause drama. I think I need a break from these boards. Good night. I did not call you in particular a "white woman that aligns herself with racist agendas" I was speaking about White women who do. There is no one-upping for oppressed people as pain is pain and I agree with a lot that you have said--except the differences in who can be racist. We can just let this be as it's getting clouded from one person's actions, April's, to it being much more. I would also ask that you not start a sentence saying, "I think you have a lot of anger..." It goes into this whole angry Black woman persona when I am simply just expressing how this particular situation with April was offensive. We don't know each other and if we did this may have gone a bit different. I wouldn't call you racist unless you showed that part of yourself to me, and I have not shown anger in this thread at all. So, I am unsure how we got there. I fully support you on taking a break from the message board if this seems like drama. I did not create this thread to offend anyone. I came to talk specifically about an issue in the crafting community--that's it! |
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Post by GiantsFan on Feb 6, 2019 22:36:39 GMT
encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ghettos A ‘ghetto’ is/was specifically used to contain, seperate & oppress people. Purposefully CREATING ghettos was a TOOL used by the Nazis to contain, seperate, oppress & control people during WW2 ( mostly Jews but others as well ) That bears repeating A ghetto is a specific tool intentionally used to purposefully oppress people. Yes, there are other definitions of ghetto but they are microscopically ‘better’ than a purposeful tool of intentional oppression. Why would any business person want to use a word with those connotations is beyond me. Obviously, I’ve been living under a rock.. I grew up in low income housing and and sometimes I would joke I lived in the ghetto growing up but I really had no idea. I’m grateful that I’ve been made aware Ack! Same here. |
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Post by refugeepea on Feb 6, 2019 23:29:59 GMT
There's a thread of over 800 pages dedicated to this woman's poor decision-making and cringe-inducing business decisions on this board. 
(Studio Calico and Inked are a world of their own, you're lucky you never had to keep up with April Foster's madness  ) Oh!  I kind of gave up on that thread and just remember the shit show behind the products. Now that I think about it, the name April was mentioned a few times. |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Feb 7, 2019 19:45:51 GMT
Just updating here as I was requested to. I don't know how to upload my screenshot here, but someone from Studio Calico saw my message to them and did not respond at all.
So, I hope that's more of an indication of what type of company Studio Calico is or at least who the person running it into the ground is.
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Post by joblackford on Feb 7, 2019 20:49:52 GMT
I had picked up the habit of using ghetto in a casual/joking way from my husband - not a lot, but in one particular context. When I caught us saying it this morning I pointed out to him that it really isn't appropriate, even (or especially) in jest, and suggested we find a different word to use in its place. He agreed without question, which was a relief.
I would've hoped that AF and SC would've taken to heart what you said, and still hope that maybe they will, in time.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Feb 7, 2019 21:37:48 GMT
Me checking this thread tonight:
So, this discussion went... lopsided. But hey, that doesn't mean it needs to be swept under the rug and forgotten ASAP. We can turn this into a positive! I am from the country of hairy smelly armpits garlic necklaces rude garçons tarte tatin, after all. Fell on the wrong side? No problem, it can be a learning experience if you're open-minded and thinking creatively enough. 🙂
To all my fellow white people in this thread, I would like to recommend White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism. Oh, I know how uncomfortable that title is but if you give it a chance, you'll learn a lot from it about the Western world as it is today (and how we got here) and the role we play in it through our thoughts and actions based on those thoughts. Robin DiAngelo is a sociologist specialised in this particular subfield of racial and social justice. She's written an easy-to-read, comprehensive and enlightening book on this matter. And it's only about 200 pages long. It remains one of my favourite non-fic reads of 2018. No matter where you stand before reading it, you will go through an introspective journey of self-growth by the time you finish it. Just consider adding it to your book list for this year. If you've felt defensive for some reason reading this thread (at any point), you will benefit from reading this short book, pinky swear. It's a wonderful way to expand one's view of our world as it is today and especially important considering the political climate we're in. You'll be a better citizen of your country and of the world and engage with your fellow citizens more constructively after reading it.
With love. ✌️
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Post by dasmith2 on Feb 7, 2019 21:56:38 GMT
Well there is some good that came out of this thread, awareness. I’m glad it was posted.
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Post by joblackford on Feb 7, 2019 22:19:15 GMT
To all my fellow white people in this thread, I would like to recommend White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism. Oh, I know how uncomfortable that title is but if you give it a chance, you'll learn a lot from it about the Western world as it is today (and how we got here) and the role we play in it through our thoughts and actions based on those thoughts. I've heard good things about this book. Definitely adding it to my to-read list. |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Feb 8, 2019 1:17:25 GMT
To all my fellow white people in this thread, I would like to recommend White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism. Oh, I know how uncomfortable that title is but if you give it a chance, you'll learn a lot from it about the Western world as it is today (and how we got here) and the role we play in it through our thoughts and actions based on those thoughts. I've heard good things about this book. Definitely adding it to my to-read list. Yes, it’s a really wonderful book. I recommend it all the time! I admire your self-reflection and extending it to your husband. We all can do that when we become more aware. sleepingbooty thanks for also suggesting the book. I think when I suggested it earlier in the thread it offended someone when I was really trying to provide a resource. Sometimes, it’s just better to get a recommendation from someone that seems more relatable which is totally fine. I believe April + SC could care less about my thoughts and may have apologized if I were more ethnically homogeneous to them. Which is also fine, better to know who I was supporting than not. *The End* |
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Post by gynergy on Feb 8, 2019 5:23:12 GMT
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on Feb 8, 2019 7:55:13 GMT
Given I've never purchased a SC (or any Inked brand) product due to the company's self-identification/-promotion as an insecure & immature clique in the scrapbook industry, its owner's ignorance, desperation to appear "cool," & indifference to it being at the expense of others don't surprise me. Most competent business people strive neither to offend nor ignore their company's established or potential customers. She certainly doesn't deserve anyone's money or support! ((hugs)))
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Post by lasteve1 on Feb 8, 2019 10:54:51 GMT
amidwestkingdom I was going to let this go because it has escalated beyond what it ever should have, but after thinking about it I think we can still repair this so I’d like to try. I’m sorry I offended you with calling you angry, I honestly have not heard of that as a stereotype. My statement had nothing to do with your race and everything to do with the words you posted on this thread. Your original post came from a place of anger/outrage towards April, I’m not sure how I should read that any other way. But like I previously said a number of times, I supported you in your outrage towards her because it was completely justified. I also felt you showed anger towards me for my response. I think you are correct this thread was not the right place for the discussion I was trying to have, which really belongs on NSBR. You are right that deflecting can happen and it shouldn’t. But that doesn’t mean that sometimes people who are minorities contribute. And it also doesn’t mean that there aren’t other racial minorities that are marginalized in addition to African Americans. I think it has been well established on this thread that the term “ghetto” is derogatory to two separate races—yours and mine. I think it’s fair if we have different reactions towards it, for some reason it doesn’t push my buttons as much as other terms that have been directed at my race, religion or gender in my life—all things that I have felt systematic oppression and discrimination based on and which I have reacted to with anger. You are 100% correct that I have no idea what it is like to be black in America so the best I can do is try to empathize and listen. But I do know what it’s like to be marginalized, and the people who do the marginalizing are not always white. Gender is something I am more comfortable speaking to directly because we share the same, marginalized gender. Women make up 51% of the population though, which obviously puts us in a different and better position than when it comes to affecting change in oppression based on race. But still, despite our percentage of the population, women make up only 25% of senate and 23% of the house. Those numbers are less than our percentage of the population because we have been marginalized. Similar ratios could be used for African Americans. But, that doesn’t mean that those women don’t have power. True, they do not have the ability to band together and pass a law without getting others to sign on. But they do often hold the deciding vote on legislation and have the ability to further, or hurt, agendas that promote women’s rights. When it comes to racial oppression I can point to a very specific example. Justice Clarence Thomas, who is black and holds one of the most prestigious positions in our country on the Supreme Court, continues to vote in Supreme Court cases opposing affirmative action in college admissions and opposing gerrymandering to create districts with African American majorities to help elect minorities to office. His vote has not always been on the winning side in these cases, but sometimes it has, and it has been the deciding vote. All my point was, was, that while you are correct that minorities do not have the power on their own to oppress groups, they can contribute to the actions of those who do. And, because I am not black myself I really cannot opine on how this type of action affects you personally. But, when it comes to gender, I am more outraged when a woman acts in a way to set back women’s rights over when a man does it because I feel like she should know better? But I guess, shouldn’t they both? So you are 100% correct that this was off topic from the original post. You are 100% correct that this thread should have been solely about a white ignorant woman making a statement that is offensive to African Americans and Jewish people. And I am sorry that it seemed like I was trying to deflect blame, because I really am not. In this case, of course, no blame falls on anyone besides April. I just picked something out of one of your comments, where you said that it NEVER occurs and I wanted to have a more thoughtful discussion, but it really was not meant from a place of animus. Honestly, I was hoping to get you to think about my perspective and to give me more insight into yours. But I definitely was not saying it is the primary cause or even a leading force, just that, although small, it is something that happens. I am very sorry for any offense I have caused, I really hope that you can forgive me. Also, I honestly didn’t pick up that you were recommending a book to me, you just said read “white fragility” and for some reason I read that to mean read ABOUT white fragility, as in google the term. That is just my own denseness, sorry for overlooking your suggestion. I’m sure I could learn more about the topic, I just wish you hadn’t taken my comments as such an attack, they really weren’t meant to be at all. And finally, my comment about a break from the boards was misplaced on this thread. That was in response to a few threads and, primarily, to things going on in my personal life that do not have anything to do with stuff on these boards. And I’m not sure I’m going to take a break, but I just felt I needed to spend less time on here because it was distracting me from working at work.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 10:56:52 GMT
amidwestkingdom you have my support!!!!! dasmith2 I don't want you to feel guilty for using the word ghetto for low income housing. Low income housing is a form of oppression. I am saying that as a girl that lived in low income housing too. For us who are white and have lived in these kind of cultures it's not racist for us to say these things. It is part of our culture. No, I would not say my camera setup is ghetto because that is just offensive and uncouth. Calling our home area the ghetto is what it is. I lived in an area where the neighbors took care of each other and took care of our homes. It was still the ghetto. Does that help any? I don't like the term either. It makes me cringe. I had to tell a scrapbook star one time her use of gypsy was offensive. She said it was not because "Gypsies are soooooooo romantic!" I told her I was glad to know that my family was sooooo romantic that they were hunted down and slaughtered during WWII. That "gypsies" were also thrown in concentration camps and sterilized. The word gypsy is actually racist. This is why I keep saying that we have to have more diversity in this industry. These things keep happening in the industry.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 9, 2019 12:53:44 GMT
Calling our home area the ghetto is what it is. I lived in an area where the neighbors took care of each other and took care of our homes. It was still the ghetto. Does that help any? I don't like the term either. It makes me cringe. . Absolutely - the condition of the apartments and or the people is not what makes housing a ghetto, but the oppression, and separation by sorting people out of society and making them seperate. With less access to the services both govt & private the rest of society has. Simply by placing them separate. Trust me I’ve been inside some pretty disgusting million dollar apartments I had to tell a scrapbook star one time her use of gypsy was offensive. She said it was not because "Gypsies are soooooooo romantic!" I told her I was glad to know that my family was sooooo romantic that they were hunted down and slaughtered during WWII. That "gypsies" were also thrown in concentration camps and sterilized. The word gypsy is actually racist. This is why I keep saying that we have to have more diversity in this industry. These things keep happening in the industry yes, exactly |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 14:49:06 GMT
To all my fellow white people in this thread, I would like to recommend White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism. Oh, I know how uncomfortable that title is but if you give it a chance, you'll learn a lot from it about the Western world as it is today (and how we got here) and the role we play in it through our thoughts and actions based on those thoughts. I've heard good things about this book. Definitely adding it to my to-read list. I believe Sockmonkey on the NSBR side is/was going a chapter discussion post about the book |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Feb 9, 2019 20:34:26 GMT
amidwestkingdom I was going to let this go because it has escalated beyond what it ever should have, but after thinking about it I think we can still repair this so I’d like to try. I’m sorry I offended you with calling you angry, I honestly have not heard of that as a stereotype. My statement had nothing to do with your race and everything to do with the words you posted on this thread. Your original post came from a place of anger/outrage towards April, I’m not sure how I should read that any other way. But like I previously said a number of times, I supported you in your outrage towards her because it was completely justified. I also felt you showed anger towards me for my response. I think you are correct this thread was not the right place for the discussion I was trying to have, which really belongs on NSBR. You are right that deflecting can happen and it shouldn’t. But that doesn’t mean that sometimes people who are minorities contribute. And it also doesn’t mean that there aren’t other racial minorities that are marginalized in addition to African Americans. I think it has been well established on this thread that the term “ghetto” is derogatory to two separate races—yours and mine. I think it’s fair if we have different reactions towards it, for some reason it doesn’t push my buttons as much as other terms that have been directed at my race, religion or gender in my life—all things that I have felt systematic oppression and discrimination based on and which I have reacted to with anger. You are 100% correct that I have no idea what it is like to be black in America so the best I can do is try to empathize and listen. But I do know what it’s like to be marginalized, and the people who do the marginalizing are not always white. Gender is something I am more comfortable speaking to directly because we share the same, marginalized gender. Women make up 51% of the population though, which obviously puts us in a different and better position than when it comes to affecting change in oppression based on race. But still, despite our percentage of the population, women make up only 25% of senate and 23% of the house. Those numbers are less than our percentage of the population because we have been marginalized. Similar ratios could be used for African Americans. But, that doesn’t mean that those women don’t have power. True, they do not have the ability to band together and pass a law without getting others to sign on. But they do often hold the deciding vote on legislation and have the ability to further, or hurt, agendas that promote women’s rights. When it comes to racial oppression I can point to a very specific example. Justice Clarence Thomas, who is black and holds one of the most prestigious positions in our country on the Supreme Court, continues to vote in Supreme Court cases opposing affirmative action in college admissions and opposing gerrymandering to create districts with African American majorities to help elect minorities to office. His vote has not always been on the winning side in these cases, but sometimes it has, and it has been the deciding vote. All my point was, was, that while you are correct that minorities do not have the power on their own to oppress groups, they can contribute to the actions of those who do. And, because I am not black myself I really cannot opine on how this type of action affects you personally. But, when it comes to gender, I am more outraged when a woman acts in a way to set back women’s rights over when a man does it because I feel like she should know better? But I guess, shouldn’t they both? So you are 100% correct that this was off topic from the original post. You are 100% correct that this thread should have been solely about a white ignorant woman making a statement that is offensive to African Americans and Jewish people. And I am sorry that it seemed like I was trying to deflect blame, because I really am not. In this case, of course, no blame falls on anyone besides April. I just picked something out of one of your comments, where you said that it NEVER occurs and I wanted to have a more thoughtful discussion, but it really was not meant from a place of animus. Honestly, I was hoping to get you to think about my perspective and to give me more insight into yours. But I definitely was not saying it is the primary cause or even a leading force, just that, although small, it is something that happens. I am very sorry for any offense I have caused, I really hope that you can forgive me. Also, I honestly didn’t pick up that you were recommending a book to me, you just said read “white fragility” and for some reason I read that to mean read ABOUT white fragility, as in google the term. That is just my own denseness, sorry for overlooking your suggestion. I’m sure I could learn more about the topic, I just wish you hadn’t taken my comments as such an attack, they really weren’t meant to be at all. And finally, my comment about a break from the boards was misplaced on this thread. That was in response to a few threads and, primarily, to things going on in my personal life that do not have anything to do with stuff on these boards. And I’m not sure I’m going to take a break, but I just felt I needed to spend less time on here because it was distracting me from working at work. We're fine. I understand and empathize with you. In regards to Clarence Thomas he's assimilated in areas to become less threatening as a Black man, he has had his share of reminders that systematic oppression is still a factor for him as a Black man. You may be familiar with passing, it also happens in the Black community where people would like to think it's a post racial America, so if they cannot pass because of skin color they try socio-economically, etc and yet and still they receive reminders that they are not White and are only accepted to a certain extent. The psychology of systematic oppression has many marginalized people self-hating and it shows up in many ways. I hope that gave you a bit of a glimpse into your question surrounding Clarence Thomas. I also agree about gender, but if we look at the last election we can also see that not every woman puts gender over their ethnicity. For this reason, I align myself with womanism over feminism as it's a long touchy history too. I really hope that women can collectively change this in the future. All the best to you on these boards and in your personal life. I am here to learn and enjoy everyone and also to educate anyone if they're also willing to listen about my narrative too. I don't know everything at all, I just know what I have experienced and what so many of my people of the African Diaspora experience here in the U.S. I would love to know more about your views as I am not Jewish, I have Jewish students and anything I can learn to be an ally is bettering myself and others I encounter. So, thank you. |
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Jun 3, 2020 2:23:07 GMT
Just putting this back up for those wanting to know that this isn't isolated with Studio Calico.
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Post by don on Jun 3, 2020 22:14:22 GMT
This verse from an old John Prine song (Bruised Orange) actually change my life.
"You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder,
throw your hands in the air, say "What does it matter?"
but it don't do no good to get angry,
so help me I know
For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter.
You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there
wrapped up in a trap of your very own
chain of sorrow.
Hey, it ain't such a long drop don't stammer don't stutter
from the diamonds in the sidewalk to the dirt in the gutter
and you carry those bruises to remind you wherever you go."
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Post by amidwestkingdom on Jun 3, 2020 22:50:07 GMT
This verse from an old John Prine song (Bruised Orange) actually change my life. "You can gaze out the window get mad and get madder, throw your hands in the air, say "What does it matter?" but it don't do no good to get angry, so help me I know For a heart stained in anger grows weak and grows bitter. You become your own prisoner as you watch yourself sit there wrapped up in a trap of your very own chain of sorrow. Hey, it ain't such a long drop don't stammer don't stutter from the diamonds in the sidewalk to the dirt in the gutter and you carry those bruises to remind you wherever you go." I'm glad that song changed your life. All the best. |
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Post by QueSeraSera on Jun 4, 2020 2:14:47 GMT
She's a clueless middle aged white woman from a farm in Kentucky (or Tennessee). Keep us posted if she actually responds. She is not known for her ability to self-reflect/correct or apologize. I see not much has changed over a year later. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Jun 4, 2020 9:30:32 GMT
She's a clueless middle aged white woman from a farm in Kentucky (or Tennessee). Keep us posted if she actually responds. She is not known for her ability to self-reflect/correct or apologize. I see not much has changed over a year later. Just wanted to say congratulations on the new name, QueSeraSera . 'Tis a thing of beauté. Oh, and the siggy...  |
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I kind of gave up on that thread and just remember the shit show behind the products. Now that I think about it, the name April was mentioned a few times. 
