J u l e e
Drama Llama
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Jun 28, 2014 2:50:47 GMT
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Post by J u l e e on Feb 26, 2019 22:51:31 GMT
No, I don't actually feel better. It was cringy to witness and your reply was odd. You told people they should probably check out a story as a way to make a point. The story was a lie. You apologized for "misspeaking". You were played and you bought it and you shared it with others. That you did not cringe or were not embarrassed by that is unfathomable to me. I am so damn sick of the culture of outright lies being spread as truth. And where it's easier to just share a lie than to research it. And I'm sick of the people who blindly lap it up. It's destroying us and that's infuriating to me. I rarely get worked up over things here. But fake news being perpetuated, absolute lies being tweeted and believed, and the rate at which it's happening and actually NORMAL makes me crazy! Your post (and moreso your response) just happened to be the straw to my camel today. That being said...I do appreciate that lindas didn’t double down and argue that it was true. You're a better human than I am! Yes, this part is great. I'm just feeling over the flippant "oh well, I misspoke - not terribly bothered by it though" apology. (I own this paraphrase) It so much more serious than that! I have seen other other posters here and on Facebook share something fake and their response was "I am so sorry! I didn't check this out! Lesson learned. I will definitely dig a little deeper next time." As I said though, I cannot express how frustrated I am by this new era of fake news and what it's doing to our society. I don't mean to overreact to one poster, and apologize to lindas for using her error as my whipping post, but this is exhausting.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 26, 2019 23:09:11 GMT
That being said...I do appreciate that lindas didn’t double down and argue that it was true. You're a better human than I am! Yes, this part is great. I'm just feeling over the flippant "oh well, I misspoke - not terribly bothered by it though" apology. (I own this paraphrase) It so much more serious than that! I have seen other other posters here and on Facebook share something fake and their response was "I am so sorry! I didn't check this out! Lesson learned. I will definitely dig a little deeper next time." As I said though, I cannot express how frustrated I am by this new era of fake news and what it's doing to our society. I don't mean to overreact to one poster, and apologize to lindas for using her error as my whipping post, but this is exhausting. I definitely agree! I am trying to just scroll on by any controversial posts and unfollow friends who continuously share this crap. It IS exhausting and honestly, it stresses me out. Whether it is abortion, vaccinations, immigration, whether hate crimes are a thing or not, or any other political topic-there are so many that believe whatever they see and share it. Most likely without even reading it or using any type of critical thinking skills.
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StephDRebel
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Jul 5, 2014 1:53:49 GMT
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Post by StephDRebel on Feb 26, 2019 23:14:25 GMT
When you’re teaching your granddaughters about taking on the world, make sure you tell them to be right, reasonable and receptive to constructive criticism so they can garner the support they need to make actual changes. I would be FAR more agreeable to this in regards to women if we held the MEN in Congress- or maybe, I don't know- the White House, even? to this standard as well. But since we DON'T (See any number of videos of Lindsay Graham, any tweet or video of DT, and SOOOO many other examples of men behaving like asses, for proof...) then AOC can say any damn thing she pleases, in my opinion. Especially since the stakes are so high when it comes to climate change. One of the NPR news stories I heard this morning had to do with the military spending $47 million on a sea wall in the ARCTIC to protect a runway at a radar station -- because the ocean is rising far faster than they anticipated... they didn't think they would see this level erosion due to climate change until the year 2040. There is no time for 'being nice' any longer; it's probably too late already. NPR story on climate change Arctic radar stationsAnd perhaps she wasn't eloquent about it, but the comment about 'maybe people should think about whether they should have children or not' is a legitimate one. I can't remember what news story I heard it in, but the story said that in terms of reducing your carbon footprint, one of the MOST effective ways fora person to do it is to decide not to have children. my son and his girlfriend and two other couples from their class to dinner and had a 3 hour conversation about how they were unsure about whether they should have kids at all because they are worried about what the world looks like for the next generation.
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Post by sunshine on Feb 26, 2019 23:23:04 GMT
There are so many news stories reported by reputable news outlets that have been discussed here that are WRONG. In those cases, they're just a mistake. No big deal. Move along. I see tweets shared here that only give a biased portion of what was actually said, and nobody blinks an eye.
One person here makes a comment about a story, apologizes for it, and she's still being roasted.
Good Lord.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Feb 26, 2019 23:36:17 GMT
I apologize, I misspoke regarding AOC but I stand by my comment about everyone profiting off there political gig. I appreciate that you have apologized. I appreciate that you have accepted the correct/true information. Thank you. The ongoing problem is that there are so many out there who will never understand or even consider what they are hearing and/or sharing is not the truth.
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,685
Location: In the rainy, rainy WA
Jul 22, 2017 4:59:41 GMT
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Post by luckyjune on Feb 27, 2019 1:10:19 GMT
Disagree with AOC's policies all you want. But calling her loud? Obnoxious? Too big for her britches? Please be careful. Little girls and young women are watching and learning what happens to women who dare speak their minds and unapologetically stand up for themselves. In a way, you are perpetuating the silencing women. I'd much rather my daughter and future granddaughters be strong, fierce, and willing to stand up than not. They get enough messages from men; please do your part to make sure you don't contribute to that message. Nope. Not going to give someone a pass just because she is a woman. When you’re teaching your granddaughters about taking on the world, make sure you tell them to be right, reasonable and receptive to constructive criticism so they can garner the support they need to make actual changes. Aaaaaand, you totally missed the point of my post.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 2:26:31 GMT
I can't help but wonder about someone who thinks now that they're not giving a tax break to Amazon, now they suddenly have that money to invest it the way she believes it should be invested. To me that kind of ignorance goes beyond just being new and needing to learning the ropes of the job.
“If we were willing to give away $3 billion for this deal, we could invest those $3 billion in our district ourselves, if we wanted to. We could hire out more teachers. We can fix our subways. We can put a lot of people to work for that money, if we wanted to.” Ocasio-Cortez
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
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Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Feb 27, 2019 3:46:55 GMT
I would be FAR more agreeable to this in regards to women if we held the MEN in Congress- or maybe, I don't know- the White House, even? to this standard as well. But since we DON'T (See any number of videos of Lindsay Graham, any tweet or video of DT, and SOOOO many other examples of men behaving like asses, for proof...) then AOC can say any damn thing she pleases, in my opinion. Especially since the stakes are so high when it comes to climate change. One of the NPR news stories I heard this morning had to do with the military spending $47 million on a sea wall in the ARCTIC to protect a runway at a radar station -- because the ocean is rising far faster than they anticipated... they didn't think they would see this level erosion due to climate change until the year 2040. There is no time for 'being nice' any longer; it's probably too late already. NPR story on climate change Arctic radar stationsAnd perhaps she wasn't eloquent about it, but the comment about 'maybe people should think about whether they should have children or not' is a legitimate one. I can't remember what news story I heard it in, but the story said that in terms of reducing your carbon footprint, one of the MOST effective ways fora person to do it is to decide not to have children. my son and his girlfriend and two other couples from their class to dinner and had a 3 hour conversation about how they were unsure about whether they should have kids at all because they are worried about what the world looks like for the next generation. I was going to post something similar earlier, started but didn't finish. Both my kids and their friends have talked about this often. Way back before they should have to be thinking of these things. Early high school at least. And they and the data and science as to why. It shocked and saddened me at first. Now it just saddens me. What a mess we've left them.
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StephDRebel
Drama Llama
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Posts: 6,668
Location: Ohio
Jul 5, 2014 1:53:49 GMT
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Post by StephDRebel on Feb 27, 2019 4:15:32 GMT
my son and his girlfriend and two other couples from their class to dinner and had a 3 hour conversation about how they were unsure about whether they should have kids at all because they are worried about what the world looks like for the next generation. I was going to post something similar earlier, started but didn't finish. Both my kids and their friends have talked about this often. Way back before they should have to be thinking of these things. Early high school at least. And they and the data and science as to why. It shocked and saddened me at first. Now it just saddens me. What a mess we've left them. Most definitely. My jaw dropped, I was proud of the thought they had put into it, then I was horrified, then sad and ultimately i just apologized for what a shit show things have turned to.
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quiltedbrain
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Jun 26, 2014 3:34:53 GMT
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Post by quiltedbrain on Feb 27, 2019 16:53:14 GMT
my son and his girlfriend and two other couples from their class to dinner and had a 3 hour conversation about how they were unsure about whether they should have kids at all because they are worried about what the world looks like for the next generation. I was going to post something similar earlier, started but didn't finish. Both my kids and their friends have talked about this often. Way back before they should have to be thinking of these things. Early high school at least. And they and the data and science as to why. It shocked and saddened me at first. Now it just saddens me. What a mess we've left them. My almost 19 year old DD has said she doesn't want to have children, and a big part of her reasoning is not wanting to bring a child into a world that is crumbling environmentally. AOC is not wrong that young people are thinking about this...it's just the older generations (I include myself in that) that are so used to sticking their heads in the sand or passing the buck till later who can't fathom how they could think that way.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 20:09:16 GMT
I was going to post something similar earlier, started but didn't finish. Both my kids and their friends have talked about this often. Way back before they should have to be thinking of these things. Early high school at least. And they and the data and science as to why. It shocked and saddened me at first. Now it just saddens me. What a mess we've left them. My almost 19 year old DD has said she doesn't want to have children, and a big part of her reasoning is not wanting to bring a child into a world that is crumbling environmentally. AOC is not wrong that young people are thinking about this...it's just the older generations (I include myself in that) that are so used to sticking their heads in the sand or passing the buck till later who can't fathom how they could think that way. The birth rate in the US has been declining for several years already without this generation choosing not to have children. From a policy perspective, how will the Green New Deal be paid for without a stable population paying taxes?
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 27, 2019 20:17:00 GMT
how will the Green New Deal be paid for without a stable population paying taxes? maybe we could, oh, I don't know-- take some money from something NON-essential to the future of the planet, perhaps? wall, military, eliminate tax cuts so the richest can get richer... I can think of LOTS of ways. or, heck- declare a National Emergency (because it IS), and take money from wherever they want.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2019 20:56:05 GMT
how will the Green New Deal be paid for without a stable population paying taxes? maybe we could, oh, I don't know-- take some money from something NON-essential to the future of the planet, perhaps? wall, military, eliminate tax cuts so the richest can get richer... I can think of LOTS of ways. or, heck- declare a National Emergency (because it IS), and take money from wherever they want. Let's look at the costs and potential revenues: Medicare for all would cost $3 Trillion (doubling federal spending) If we guarantee $10,000 annually to all Americans, it would cost approximately $3 Trillion Total estimated costs: $6 TrillionLet's tax those earning $10 million or more at a 70% rate in order to raise $72 Billion annually The DoD budget is $686.1 Billion for 2019. Let's eliminate it entirely. Trump wanted $5 Billion for the wall. Let's take it all out. Total Estimated Savings: $763.1 BillionThis just takes into account two of AOC's specifics contained within her proposal. Doesn't include free universal college or building retrofits. I'm no mathematician, but I think that Trillion is bigger than Billion. Eliminating the entire DoD, raising taxes on the richest and eliminating the wall doesn't even begin to cover a fraction of either one of those proposals.
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Post by peasapie on Feb 27, 2019 22:15:34 GMT
I love that she is starting important conversations. And she is right to let others know she won't be silenced.
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 0:09:57 GMT
maybe we could, oh, I don't know-- take some money from something NON-essential to the future of the planet, perhaps? wall, military, eliminate tax cuts so the richest can get richer... I can think of LOTS of ways. or, heck- declare a National Emergency (because it IS), and take money from wherever they want. Let's look at the costs and potential revenues: Medicare for all would cost $3 Trillion (doubling federal spending) If we guarantee $10,000 annually to all Americans, it would cost approximately $3 Trillion Total estimated costs: $6 TrillionLet's tax those earning $10 million or more at a 70% rate in order to raise $72 Billion annually The DoD budget is $686.1 Billion for 2019. Let's eliminate it entirely. Trump wanted $5 Billion for the wall. Let's take it all out. Total Estimated Savings: $763.1 BillionThis just takes into account two of AOC's specifics contained within her proposal. Doesn't include free universal college or building retrofits. I'm no mathematician, but I think that Trillion is bigger than Billion. Eliminating the entire DoD, raising taxes on the richest and eliminating the wall doesn't even begin to cover a fraction of either one of those proposals. Do you happen to have a source for your numbers?
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 0:11:13 GMT
My almost 19 year old DD has said she doesn't want to have children, and a big part of her reasoning is not wanting to bring a child into a world that is crumbling environmentally. AOC is not wrong that young people are thinking about this...it's just the older generations (I include myself in that) that are so used to sticking their heads in the sand or passing the buck till later who can't fathom how they could think that way. The birth rate in the US has been declining for several years already without this generation choosing not to have children. From a policy perspective, how will the Green New Deal be paid for without a stable population paying taxes? One of the major arguments in favor of increased, not reduced, immigration. We will not survive as a country at our current birthrate without a significant continued immigration.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 28, 2019 14:50:57 GMT
Do you happen to have a source for your numbers? hahaha!!! oh, you... sources for facts?!? ...pshaw. lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:08:09 GMT
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:09:24 GMT
The birth rate in the US has been declining for several years already without this generation choosing not to have children. From a policy perspective, how will the Green New Deal be paid for without a stable population paying taxes? One of the major arguments in favor of increased, not reduced, immigration. We will not survive as a country at our current birthrate without a significant continued immigration. This is only a valid argument if they are legal immigrants and paying taxes.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,203
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Feb 28, 2019 16:12:50 GMT
Do you happen to have a source for your numbers? hahaha!!! oh, you... sources for facts?!? ...pshaw. lol. I guess it never crossed your mind that the person that posted those figures hasn't been back to this board since than and hasn't seen Merge's request for a source before you made your sarcastic post.
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 16:20:03 GMT
One of the major arguments in favor of increased, not reduced, immigration. We will not survive as a country at our current birthrate without a significant continued immigration. This is only a valid argument if they are legal immigrants and paying taxes. It's valid regardless. It's indisputable that, at current birthrates, we will suffer economic calamity without a continued influx of immigrants. The legal process for unskilled or low-skill immigrant labor (desperately needed as Americans often won't do those jobs or there aren't enough to do them) is onerous to the point of impossibility. We need them, but we won't let them come here legally in an efficient manner. Trump had the opportunity to fix this, and create greater economic security for all of us, but instead he's chosen to spend his political capital fear mongering about the great immigrant horde. For a guy who touted himself as an economic genius, it makes no sense.
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 16:20:38 GMT
Thanks. I have a class coming so I'll look these over later.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:21:09 GMT
maybe we could, oh, I don't know-- take some money from something NON-essential to the future of the planet, perhaps? wall, military, eliminate tax cuts so the richest can get richer... I can think of LOTS of ways. or, heck- declare a National Emergency (because it IS), and take money from wherever they want. Let's look at the costs and potential revenues: Medicare for all would cost $3 Trillion (doubling federal spending) If we guarantee $10,000 annually to all Americans, it would cost approximately $3 Trillion Total estimated costs: $6 TrillionLet's tax those earning $10 million or more at a 70% rate in order to raise $72 Billion annually The DoD budget is $686.1 Billion for 2019. Let's eliminate it entirely. Trump wanted $5 Billion for the wall. Let's take it all out. Total Estimated Savings: $763.1 BillionThis just takes into account two of AOC's specifics contained within her proposal. Doesn't include free universal college or building retrofits. I'm no mathematician, but I think that Trillion is bigger than Billion. Eliminating the entire DoD, raising taxes on the richest and eliminating the wall doesn't even begin to cover a fraction of either one of those proposals. Let's add a financial transaction tax on the $1TRILLION traded DAILY in this country. Let's say .5% to 1% depending on the instrument traded. That can bring in anywhere from $600 BILLION to $1TRILLION per year. Then, lets have medicare bargain for cheaper pharma, saving billions/trillions over the current method where pharma charges the chumps in the US 100sx to 1000s' of times more for the same drugs. Lots we can do to fix this.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:26:58 GMT
This is only a valid argument if they are legal immigrants and paying taxes. It's valid regardless. It's indisputable that, at current birthrates, we will suffer economic calamity without a continued influx of immigrants. The legal process for unskilled or low-skill immigrant labor (desperately needed as Americans often won't do those jobs or there aren't enough to do them) is onerous to the point of impossibility. We need them, but we won't let them come here legally in an efficient manner. Trump had the opportunity to fix this, and create greater economic security for all of us, but instead he's chosen to spend his political capital fear mongering about the great immigrant horde. For a guy who touted himself as an economic genius, it makes no sense. I agree with the bolded part, but not the reasoning. We will suffer an economic calamity because there won't be enough tax-paying citizens to carry the burden of government-funded programs such as Social Security and Medicare. Those programs are already sagging because of the size of the baby boomer generation relative to the taxable bodies living in the US. Adding more individuals that don't pay taxes doesn't solve that dilemma.
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 16:33:48 GMT
hahaha!!! oh, you... sources for facts?!? ...pshaw. lol. I guess it never crossed your mind that the person that posted those figures hasn't been back to this board since than and hasn't seen Merge's request for a source before you made your sarcastic post. It crossed my mind. But it's also true that our active conservative members here rarely seem to be able to present facts to support their assertions. So I appreciate gobananas coming back to share her sources, and I look forward to reading them.
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Post by Merge on Feb 28, 2019 16:36:01 GMT
It's valid regardless. It's indisputable that, at current birthrates, we will suffer economic calamity without a continued influx of immigrants. The legal process for unskilled or low-skill immigrant labor (desperately needed as Americans often won't do those jobs or there aren't enough to do them) is onerous to the point of impossibility. We need them, but we won't let them come here legally in an efficient manner. Trump had the opportunity to fix this, and create greater economic security for all of us, but instead he's chosen to spend his political capital fear mongering about the great immigrant horde. For a guy who touted himself as an economic genius, it makes no sense. I agree with the bolded part, but not the reasoning. We will suffer an economic calamity because there won't be enough tax-paying citizens to carry the burden of government-funded programs such as Social Security and Medicare. Those programs are already sagging because of the size of the baby boomer generation relative to the taxable bodies living in the US. Adding more individuals that don't pay taxes doesn't solve that dilemma. If we change the immigration laws so they can come here legally more easily, we have new tax payers and everyone is happy, right? That's the opportunity Trump (and every president/congress before him) has missed.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:38:51 GMT
Let's look at the costs and potential revenues: Medicare for all would cost $3 Trillion (doubling federal spending) If we guarantee $10,000 annually to all Americans, it would cost approximately $3 Trillion Total estimated costs: $6 TrillionLet's tax those earning $10 million or more at a 70% rate in order to raise $72 Billion annually The DoD budget is $686.1 Billion for 2019. Let's eliminate it entirely. Trump wanted $5 Billion for the wall. Let's take it all out. Total Estimated Savings: $763.1 BillionThis just takes into account two of AOC's specifics contained within her proposal. Doesn't include free universal college or building retrofits. I'm no mathematician, but I think that Trillion is bigger than Billion. Eliminating the entire DoD, raising taxes on the richest and eliminating the wall doesn't even begin to cover a fraction of either one of those proposals. Let's add a financial transaction tax on the $1TRILLION traded DAILY in this country. Let's say .5% to 1% depending on the instrument traded. That can bring in anywhere from $600 BILLION to $1TRILLION per year. Then, lets have medicare bargain for cheaper pharma, saving billions/trillions over the current method where pharma charges the chumps in the US 100sx to 1000s' of times more for the same drugs. Lots we can do to fix this. The CBO says that a financial transaction tax is likely to bring in $776.7 billion over 10 years, the highest year at $110.4 Billion. CBO Estimate Negotiating with big pharma still doesn't close the gap. The CBS article I linked above discusses the savings from lower prescription costs would be $846 Billion over 10 years. The article also claims that we could double every individual and corporate tax burden and still not fund Medicare for all.
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Deleted
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Jun 24, 2024 13:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 16:45:40 GMT
Let's add a financial transaction tax on the $1TRILLION traded DAILY in this country. Let's say .5% to 1% depending on the instrument traded. That can bring in anywhere from $600 BILLION to $1TRILLION per year. Then, lets have medicare bargain for cheaper pharma, saving billions/trillions over the current method where pharma charges the chumps in the US 100sx to 1000s' of times more for the same drugs. Lots we can do to fix this. The CBO says that a financial transaction tax is likely to bring in $776.7 billion over 10 years, the highest year at $110.4 Billion. CBO Estimate Negotiating with big pharma still doesn't close the gap. The CBS article I linked above discusses the savings from lower prescription costs would be $846 Billion over 10 years. The article also claims that we could double every individual and corporate tax burden and still not fund Medicare for all. Depends on what numbers and instruments they're using. They use ridiculously low tenths (<.5) to hundredths (like .09) of a percent and not all instruments. Using my numbers of a MODEST .5% to 1% (given that I pay 5-15% tax on MANY of my piddly transactions) we can make LOTS MORE - even TRILLIONS/year given that we trade a TRILLION/DAY!
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Post by lucyg on Feb 28, 2019 16:49:29 GMT
One of the major arguments in favor of increased, not reduced, immigration. We will not survive as a country at our current birthrate without a significant continued immigration. This is only a valid argument if they are legal immigrants and paying taxes. Most illegal immigrants are indeed paying taxes, and often never seeing any benefit from them. Furthermore, there’s nothing different in the long run between the societal contributions of legal vs. illegal immigrants. They work hard, pay taxes, spend money in the community, have babies who are legal citizens and grow up to be contributing members of society. They take fewer taxpayer-supplied benefits out of the system because they are barred from receiving many of the benefits some people keep insisting they are stealing from hard-working Americans. Stop making it so damn hard for unskilled labor (that we need and want) to come here legally, and we won’t have such a problem with illegal immigration. And for the love of God (this is not aimed at you, @gobananas, but at conservatives in general) please stop conflating asylum seekers with illegal immigrants. They have every legal right to seek asylum here.
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Feb 28, 2019 16:56:38 GMT
Has anyone studied what we as Americans are already paying for healthcare every year? Wouldn't that money be essentially rolled into a universal healthcare program? I pay 800 a month and my employer also pays a portion, if you multiply that 800 by half the population, you get nearly 2 trillion dollars right off the bat.
Have there been any numbers on how much could be saved by eliminating/regulating/streamlining the various insurance companies who are profiting from the healthcare industry?
What about the money that could be saved by requiring less costly procedures and treatments (for example: do you really need an MRI to determine a patient is constipated/has a bone spur, or could that be discovered via ultrasound/xray). Surely I'm not the only one who's noticed that more expensive procedures have become the norm for simple conditions...
In my dreams, we would require that any lobby group that wants to petition the government has to donate X amount of money into a specific fund. For example, pharmaceutical companies would donate to a universal healthcare fund; mining companies would donate to infrastructure funds, commercial fisherman would donate to a clean water fund, etc. If they've got the money to "pay to play" by donating to a candidate's campaign in the hopes that they might garner favor in the future, why not have them contribute an equal amount to something that will actually be useful?
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