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Post by lisacharlotte on Mar 7, 2019 12:32:38 GMT
Yeah, not his call. If he’s concerned about his babies he needs to have sex with a partner who wants a baby.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Mar 7, 2019 12:44:01 GMT
Do you not understand what a dangerous precedent that would be setting? Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens.Of course she does, it's her body. Where do you think it will end if men become able to tell a woman what she can and cannot medically do with her own body? Under his fucking eye indeed. Just wait until the next step is reached: you have two kidneys. I need one. You are a match. You don’t want to give it up, but without the kidney, I will die. It’s a matter of life and death for me, why should I have to die just because you don’t want to deal with the inconvenience of a medical procedure? Why should you have the entire say on what happens? After all, I have a stake in this, I should get a say. If you don’t want to risk having to donate a kidney, you shouldn’t have had two of them. i might be someone rich, important, useful to society. You? You’re just a selfish woman who wants to be irresponsible even if it means killing someone else, just so you won’t be inconvenienced. Obviously you shouldn’t be allowed to make this decision since you don’t realize the consequences.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Mar 7, 2019 12:59:23 GMT
Imagine suing for not giving a kidney, a bone marrow transplant, or for not giving a blood donation. You can't force people to use their body to sustain another's. THERE it is. That is exactly what I was coming in to say. The precedent this seeks to set is horrific.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 4, 2024 4:17:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 13:10:41 GMT
Do you not understand what a dangerous precedent that would be setting? Of course she does, it's her body. Where do you think it will end if men become able to tell a woman what she can and cannot medically do with her own body? Under his fucking eye indeed. Just wait until the next step is reached: you have two kidneys. I need one. You are a match. You don’t want to give it up, but without the kidney, I will die. It’s a matter of life and death for me, why should I have to die just because you don’t want to deal with the inconvenience of a medical procedure? Why should you have the entire say on what happens? After all, I have a stake in this, I should get a say. If you don’t want to risk having to donate a kidney, you shouldn’t have had two of them. i might be someone rich, important, useful to society. You? You’re just a selfish woman who wants to be irresponsible even if it means killing someone else, just so you won’t be inconvenienced. Obviously you shouldn’t be allowed to make this decision since you don’t realize the consequences. Exactly. Only YOU can decide who can use your organs, blood, bone marrow. You can decide who, when and for how long. Same with a pregnant woman. NO ONE has rights to her body - even if they will DIE without it. PERIOD.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 4, 2024 4:17:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 13:22:16 GMT
Thread about Ryan's atty:
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schizo319
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,030
Jun 28, 2014 0:26:58 GMT
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Post by schizo319 on Mar 7, 2019 13:28:20 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I have no problem with voluntary prostitution. There are other countries in which prostitution is legal and regulated (I have a photo of the "prostitution information center" in Amsterdam), it seems to me that is a better option because there's less chance of women being abused/manipulated by a "pimp" and it keeps disease in check. I believe it was George Carlin who said "Why is it illegal to sell something that it's perfectly legal to give away for free?"
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Mar 7, 2019 13:52:11 GMT
I am Pro-Life for the most part, there are a few reasons I could understand the need or want for an abortion, I still may not agree with the want part, but I could better understand. I am also one for Father's rights. I have seen a few cases where the father really was being screwed over by the mother and the child ALWAYS suffers the most in those cases.
With this being said, even I cannot agree with this case for many of the reasons stated here and thank you to those that very eloquently stated their case. Plus, sorry if I missed this part, this happened in 2017, the father would have been 17 then, possibly still in high school, most likely an entry level job etc. I have a hard time believing he was in a position then to fully support a child. He may be at that point now, but hard to believe he was ready 2 years ago.
The result of a case like this would have implications far beyond just an abortion case.
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AmandaA
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,502
Aug 28, 2015 22:31:17 GMT
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Post by AmandaA on Mar 7, 2019 13:55:11 GMT
Do you not understand what a dangerous precedent that would be setting? Of course she does, it's her body. Where do you think it will end if men become able to tell a woman what she can and cannot medically do with her own body? Under his fucking eye indeed. Just wait until the next step is reached: you have two kidneys. I need one. You are a match. You don’t want to give it up, but without the kidney, I will die. It’s a matter of life and death for me, why should I have to die just because you don’t want to deal with the inconvenience of a medical procedure? Why should you have the entire say on what happens? After all, I have a stake in this, I should get a say. If you don’t want to risk having to donate a kidney, you shouldn’t have had two of them. i might be someone rich, important, useful to society. You? You’re just a selfish woman who wants to be irresponsible even if it means killing someone else, just so you won’t be inconvenienced. Obviously you shouldn’t be allowed to make this decision since you don’t realize the consequences. Amen! I cannot even tell you how many times I have typed out a reply to the prolife/birthers here to ask them how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot! Heck we don’t even have to go so far as organs... how about mandatory blood donation because after all what about the premature baby who will need multiple transfusions or the person who was in a traumatic accident and is bleeding to death. Gonna let them die? Just the start of a slippery slope IMO.
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Mar 7, 2019 14:03:20 GMT
Amen! I cannot even tell you how many times I have typed out a reply to the prolife/birthers here to ask them how they would feel if the shoe was on the other foot! Heck we don’t even have to go so far as organs... how about mandatory blood donation because after all what about the premature baby who will need multiple transfusions or the person who was in a traumatic accident and is bleeding to death. Gonna let them die? Just the start of a slippery slope IMO. Of course, they'll be fine with blood transfusions and mandatory donation, right? Because surely nobody could have a religious issue with saving a life, right? Jesus would want you to be forced to give blood, so you can help other people. Those people have a right to life, and you not donating blood is keeping them from that. Sorry, Jehovah's Witnesses. You guys are the wrong flavor of Christianity I guess.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
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I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,397
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Mar 7, 2019 14:11:03 GMT
And further more, I have to wonder if this 19 year old boy is in a position to look after a kid for the next 18 years. Me thinks his mother is the entity behind this. I think it is more likely to be some right wing religious entity that has got hold of the story and are using it to further their ghastly agenda.
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tincin
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Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Mar 7, 2019 14:26:29 GMT
Oh, I hope I son't get reamed on for this but I hope he wins. Not because I am against pro choice but because he is the father. The baby/fetus is half of him. Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens. Its not fair. But its not fair to the mom either, I get that. But at the same time, they had sex (protected or not) and knew the risk of becoming pregnant... I don't know...to me unless there is harm to the mother to carry to term or she was raped, if the dad wants the baby he should be able to have the baby born. I don't know...such a grey line. He made the same choice and it’s her body. Men have controlled women’s bodies for far too long.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 7, 2019 14:30:03 GMT
And further more, I have to wonder if this 19 year old boy is in a position to look after a kid for the next 18 years. Me thinks his mother is the entity behind this. I think it is more likely to be some right wing religious entity that has got hold of the story and are using it to further their ghastly agenda. Probably the group mentioned in the article, Personhood Alabama.
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tincin
Drama Llama
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Posts: 5,375
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Mar 7, 2019 14:30:58 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I believe sex work should be legal. To me their is no difference between using your body for sex work or using it to dig ditches. If it were legal it would be safer and more profitable for the women.
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Post by aprilfay21 on Mar 7, 2019 16:06:13 GMT
If a man doesn't want his baby aborted, then he should make sure that he's only ejaculating into women willing to go through a pregnancy.
It's so hard for me to be eloquent on this topic. Pro-birthers disgust me. Screw the woman and her quality of life, right? And the quality of life of a born baby/child. As long as the babies are born and men are in control. ARGH.
And I think it's silly prostitution is illegal. I can give it to 100 men on the street but the second I take money from one it's a crime? oKaY.
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PLurker
Prolific Pea
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Posts: 9,765
Location: Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Jun 28, 2014 3:48:49 GMT
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Post by PLurker on Mar 7, 2019 16:13:39 GMT
And what would this teenager have supported this child with? The money from his paper round? and is he going to pay for all the upcoming foreseen and unforeseen medical costs he is forcing upon her?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2019 16:38:25 GMT
Imagine suing for not giving a kidney, a bone marrow transplant, or for not giving a blood donation. You can't force people to use their body to sustain another's. THERE it is. That is exactly what I was coming in to say. The precedent this seeks to set is horrific. Thank you both for that!
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Post by pierkiss on Mar 7, 2019 16:55:44 GMT
I hope he loses.
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Post by Merge on Mar 7, 2019 17:03:23 GMT
I agree with above comments that there is another person or entity in this case, and I think it's well-timed to contribute to Republicans' "Democrats are heartless baby-killers AND they want to take rights away from white men" narrative.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2019 17:06:53 GMT
I agree with above comments that there is another person or entity in this case, and I think it's well-timed to contribute to Republicans' "Democrats are heartless baby-killers AND they want to take rights away from white men" narrative. You've got that right!
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 7, 2019 17:58:31 GMT
So thinking this through to the logical conclusions if he wins...
1. Will fathers be able to sue a doctor who treats a woman for cancer if the chemo kills the fetus? I’m thinking about cases where the woman has a choice for immediate treatment or delayed a month or so to allow the fetus to become viable. The second option creates a greater risk to her life, and not all women are willing to risk delaying chemo.
2. Will father be able to sue a liquor store that sells alcohol to an obviously pregnant woman? Of course, she could be buying it for someone else, so maybe a better example would be a bartender serving alcohol to an obviously pregnant woman.
3. Will the father be able to pursue a restraining order against the woman to stop any behavior he thinks might harm the fetus?
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Post by sabrinae on Mar 7, 2019 18:04:43 GMT
And what would this teenager have supported this child with? The money from his paper round? and is he going to pay for all the upcoming foreseen and unforeseen medical costs he is forcing upon her? Not only medical costs, but what about lost wages and opportunity through the pregnancy. I was so sick withy first pregnancy I couldn’t work— I spent every day vomiting for a good part of the day. What about any complications that arise — is he going to be forced to cover any ongoing medical issues or compensation for quality of life issues. What if Mom dies as a result of complications of pregnancy or birth. Can the father then be charged with her death as he forced her to carry the pregnancy?
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Post by pjaye on Mar 7, 2019 22:36:21 GMT
let's take this a step further.. If the man can force a woman to do something she doesn't want to do with her body because they had sex -i.e have a baby, then logically a women should then be able to force a man to do something he doesn't want to do with his body because they had sex...right?
So if a women does not want to have a baby, or does not want to have more babies, then within this new law, she should be legally able to force the man she has sex with to have a vasectomy, because she does not want to risk getting pregnant. If men are allowed to determine what women can do with their reproductive organs then women should also be able to make decisions about the man's reproductive system and force him to have things done to it that he doesn't want.
Does anyone think for a second that any man would think this is a good idea? No of course not, they only think they can tell women what to do, there would be moral outrage at the suggestion women could force them to do something to their reproductive systems.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,043
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Mar 8, 2019 2:39:31 GMT
What happens when he changes his mind when she delivers at 31 weeks, goes into preterm labor, and the baby is in the NICU indefinitely with chronic illness?
What happens when the baby is born with a genetic defect and requires prolonged medical treatment?
What happens when he changes his mind because he wanted a little boy that would grow up to be just like him and the baby has the audacity to be born a girl?
What happens when that baby turns 14 and comes out as gay? Or at 14 has questions about not being born in the right body?
That’s in addition to all the other logical arguments about having to do something with your body that you don’t want to do.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 8, 2019 4:12:25 GMT
That’s in addition to all the other logical arguments about having to do something with your body that you don’t want to do. Add, what happens when his daughter, 14, comes to him pregnant? an OOops or rape!
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Post by frenchie on Mar 9, 2019 2:26:27 GMT
That’s in addition to all the other logical arguments about having to do something with your body that you don’t want to do. Add, what happens when his daughter, 14, comes to him pregnant? an OOops or rape! Statutory rape was something I was wondering about with this guy. I was listening to the radio today and something was said about this case. The girl's parents are apparently very upset about the lawsuit. She was 16 when she got pregnant. Could statutory rape charges be brought against him?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 9, 2019 2:38:13 GMT
She was 16 when she got pregnant. Could statutory rape charges be brought against him? Very unlikely in Alabama... Think Roy Moore! Also the guy would have been 17 also underage and only a year older than the girl.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 9, 2019 2:44:45 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I personally am floored that a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parental consent but cannot get a tattoo.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 4, 2024 4:17:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 13:10:22 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I personally am floored that a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parental consent but cannot get a tattoo. That sounds like a Marco Rubio half-truth talking point and in this case her parents were involved: www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/aug/13/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-says-minor-can-get-abortion-not-tattoo/According to Guttmacher Institute, a group that tracks abortion policy and statistics, a majority of states require consent and/or notification. In 38 states, minors either have to get consent and/or notify their parents, while in 12 states they don’t need either.". And a parent withholding consent to a tattoo just means the kid gets it a year or two later. It doesn't work that way w/an abortion. See the diff?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jul 4, 2024 4:17:05 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 14:05:13 GMT
I'm sorry I will always believe, MY BODY, MY CHOICE.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 9, 2019 21:14:29 GMT
I personally am floored that a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parental consent but cannot get a tattoo. That sounds like a Marco Rubio half-truth talking point and in this case her parents were involved: www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/aug/13/marco-rubio/marco-rubio-says-minor-can-get-abortion-not-tattoo/According to Guttmacher Institute, a group that tracks abortion policy and statistics, a majority of states require consent and/or notification. In 38 states, minors either have to get consent and/or notify their parents, while in 12 states they don’t need either.". And a parent withholding consent to a tattoo just means the kid gets it a year or two later. It doesn't work that way w/an abortion. See the diff? I had no idea anyone else had compared the two. Maybe it would make you feel better if I said that I am floored that a 16 year old can get an abortion but not a cartilage piercing? Does the "diff" between my two examples make you less dismissive? If "my body, my choice" is the mantra, then we should really feel the same way about any potentially dangerous procedure performed on our children. If not permission, then at least notification.
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