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Post by ajsweetpea on Mar 7, 2019 2:11:17 GMT
From FOX News:
A teenager in Alabama is suing an abortion clinic for terminating the life of his unborn child against his wishes. On Tuesday, an Alabama county court recognized the aborted fetus, "Baby Roe," as a plaintiff in the lawsuit, making the case one of the first of its kind, his lawyer said.
Ryan Magers, 19, of Madison County, claims his girlfriend got a medicated abortion at the Alabama Women's Center for Reproductive Alternatives in Huntsville in February 2017 when she was six weeks pregnant, according to legal documents, even though he urged her not to terminate the pregnancy. Alabama recognizes the personhood of a fetus, so Magers is suing on behalf of the fetus and himself.
“Baby Roe’s innocent life was taken by the profiteering of the Alabama Women’s Center and while no court will be able to bring Baby Roe back to life, we will seek the fullest extent of justice on behalf of Baby Roe and Baby Roe’s father,” Attorney Brent Helms said in a statement. “The time is ripe for consistency in Alabama’s jurisprudence: either we fully acknowledge the personhood of the unborn or we cherry pick which innocents we protect and which ones we trash for profit.”
Madison County probate court Judge Frank Barger allowed Magers to name his aborted child as a co-plaintiff in his case against Alabama Women's Center, a move that came just four months after the passage of an amendment that gave fetuses personhood, or the same legal rights as any other person, under the state constitution.
Helms believes the case could make it to the Supreme Court.
"I'm here for the men who actually want to have their baby," Magers told WAAY 31. "I believe every child from conception is a baby and deserves to live."
But the case has alarmed pro-choice activists.
On Twitter, Ilyse Hogue, the president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, called it a "very scary case" that is "asserting woman's rights third in line."
Others called it "unlawful and idiotic."
Personhood Alabama spokeswoman Hannah Ford told LifeSiteNews with the recent abortion debates after New York and other states have pushed for lifting restrictions on abortions, this case is a "timely reminder that every single abortion committed is a chilling assault on a precious and innocent human life – an intolerable violation of the most basic, God-given human right, the right to life.”
The abortion clinic has until April 1 to respond to the suit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 2:37:30 GMT
Oh, I hope I son't get reamed on for this but I hope he wins. Not because I am against pro choice but because he is the father. The baby/fetus is half of him. Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens.
Its not fair. But its not fair to the mom either, I get that.
But at the same time, they had sex (protected or not) and knew the risk of becoming pregnant...
I don't know...to me unless there is harm to the mother to carry to term or she was raped, if the dad wants the baby he should be able to have the baby born.
I don't know...such a grey line.
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Mar 7, 2019 2:40:29 GMT
Can he prove this pregnancy would have been successful if not terminated? He cannot.
Can he actually prove he contributed some chromosomes at this point in time? I suspect he cannot either. I would imagine, as this was a medical termination of pregnancy, that the young woman did not save the products of conception.
Personhood? Sorry. As much as I dislike elective pregnancy termination, a fetus that cannot survive by any means outside the body of the mother is not a person. A potential future person? Sure.
What is this a reminder to me? A reminder that we live in a culture where men still believe they have the right to determine what happens to a woman's body. ANd not just men. We have other women who believe they have the right to dictate what happens to the bodies of other women too. I am getting so crotchety in my later years that I all want to say is "mind your own damn business!"
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Mar 7, 2019 2:45:13 GMT
But its not fair to the mom either, I get that. If we have the balance the risk of fairness, let's balance the risks to the young woman vs the risks to the young man. The risks to her life win. End of game. He has no health risks, no physical long term risks, no risk of death from her carrying or not carrying the pregnancy. She does carry those risks. Every pregnancy carries risks- risk of bleeding, risk of infection, risk of damage to the pelvic organs, risk of hypertensive disorders of pregnancy, risks of the hypercoaguable state of pregnancy which can result in DVT, PE, brain damage and death, risk of pulmonary embolism (AFE in addition to PE), not to exclude the risk of surgery. Even if those risks are small, they are actually greater than the risks of termination, especially by medication. They are also FAR greater than the physical risks to the man which are NONE. Just doesn't compare. Didn't want to take the risk of her having a termination, then he shouldn't have had sex. |
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Mar 7, 2019 2:46:38 GMT
Oh, I hope I son't get reamed on for this but I hope he wins. Not because I am against pro choice but because he is the father. The baby/fetus is half of him. Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens. Its not fair. But its not fair to the mom either, I get that. But at the same time, they had sex (protected or not) and knew the risk of becoming pregnant... I don't know...to me unless there is harm to the mother to carry to term or she was raped, if the dad wants the baby he should be able to have the baby born. I don't know...such a grey line.   What about her wishes? The woman who has to carry the child to term? Are we really just okay with disregarding her wishes and viewing her as an effective surrogate? |
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Post by tkdmom on Mar 7, 2019 2:54:29 GMT
This puts us further on a slippery slope. If an embryo is granted rights of person hood form the moment of conception this means that no pregnancy can be terminated whether or not it poses a risk to a mothers life and well being. The most common occurrence would be an ectopic pregnancy where if the pregnancy is not terminated the maternal mortality rate is high. Next would be a molar pregnancy where there is an abnormal implantation which can become cancerous. Then there are pregnancies which occur where the danger of death of the mother is extremely high such as moms with scleroderma, cystic fibrosis, cardiac disease and other chronic diseases. Some women develop clotting disease which cause strokes and are not responsive to anti coagulant therapy. Severe pre-eclampsia, HELLP Syndrome, and Fatty liver can cause maternal loss of life if the pregnancy is not ended. A decision giving a fetus the right of person-hood would put us on the path of whose person-hood takes precedent. Who has the right to determine the mother or the father?
The cases I have mentioned I have cared for patients dealing with the choice of what to do. It is never an easy choice. In my personal opinion the courts need to keep their noses out of it.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 7, 2019 2:59:55 GMT
""(State)Representative Kelly Townsend (R) posted on her Facebook page! on Thursday [Our country is sovereign, our State is sovereign, our family is sovereign, our God is sovereign and the most holy and sacred last frontier of sovereignty is our own body.Dearest friends and people of Arizona, it seems we are prepared to give up our liberty, the very sovereignty of our body, i because of measles. I read yesterday that the idea is being floated that if not enough people get vaccinated, then we are going to force them to. The idea that we force someone to give up..."" After some online backlash, Townsend wrote another Facebook post later Thursday defending her comments, saying that “maybe [she] meant to say Socialist.” “The point here isn't whether or not we should vaccinate, that's for another post,” she said. “The point is whether or not your body is sovereign or if the government can force you to be injected against your will.”** thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/432168-arizona-republican-mandatory-vaccines-are-communistRepublican stating your body is SOVEREIGN, thinking that may be useful in time!! My body is SOVEREIGN, do not tell me what to do with it!! |
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Post by pjaye on Mar 7, 2019 3:06:51 GMT
The baby/fetus is half of him and the day he carries that child in HIS body and risks the effects of being pregnant and the birth process and the mental and emotional repercussions of having your body forced to do something that you don't want it to THEN he can make that claim. Until HE has to go through the process if bringing that child into the world, then he gets to have an "opinion" but no more than that. Not a grey line at all, completely black and white, the person whose body it is gets the only definitive say in what happens to it. Didn't want to take the risk of her having a termination, then he shouldn't have had sex. 100% agree with this. If he doesn't want his partner to have a termination, then it's his responsibility to make 100% sure there is nothing to terminate. Only way to do that with certainty is to not let his sperm anywhere near her eggs. |
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Post by busy on Mar 7, 2019 3:07:18 GMT
Oh, I hope I son't get reamed on for this but I hope he wins. Not because I am against pro choice but because he is the father. The baby/fetus is half of him. Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens. Its not fair. But its not fair to the mom either, I get that. But at the same time, they had sex (protected or not) and knew the risk of becoming pregnant... I don't know...to me unless there is harm to the mother to carry to term or she was raped, if the dad wants the baby he should be able to have the baby born. I don't know...such a grey line. A woman’s body is not a vessel a man gets to control. Period. |
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trollie
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Post by trollie on Mar 7, 2019 3:13:22 GMT
THAT. The young man has no say in this matter and should have no say in this matter. I would advise my sons to practice safe sex until he and his partner were ready to conceive a child. Same thing I tell my daughters. Life is not fair. Thems the breaks. |
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Post by mustlovecats on Mar 7, 2019 3:14:52 GMT
Oh, I hope I son't get reamed on for this but I hope he wins. Not because I am against pro choice but because he is the father. The baby/fetus is half of him. Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens. Its not fair. But its not fair to the mom either, I get that. But at the same time, they had sex (protected or not) and knew the risk of becoming pregnant... I don't know...to me unless there is harm to the mother to carry to term or she was raped, if the dad wants the baby he should be able to have the baby born. I don't know...such a grey line. I don’t see how the law could impose a man’s wishes on a woman’s body without violating all kinds of privacy laws, this would not be Constitutional in my limited opinion. |
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PrettyInPeank
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Mar 7, 2019 3:22:55 GMT
Imagine suing for not giving a kidney, a bone marrow transplant, or for not giving a blood donation. You can't force people to use their body to sustain another's.
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Heathen
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Post by Heathen on Mar 7, 2019 3:38:19 GMT
I wonder which entities put him up to this, and whether the girlfriend mentioned in the article is still with him.
Not your body, not your choice. That is all.
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River
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Post by River on Mar 7, 2019 4:04:11 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers.
One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice?
It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts?
If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Mar 7, 2019 4:04:20 GMT
I certainly think some entity is behind this.
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trollie
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Post by trollie on Mar 7, 2019 4:07:11 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I think if a woman is a legal adult, while I might not agree with it, she should be able to prostitute herself. Not a choice I would make or would want someone that I cared about to make, but I do believe it is her choice. |
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Post by busy on Mar 7, 2019 4:11:45 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I actually don't object to the legalization of sex work for adults. I think it would be much safer for sex workers and I don't think payment for sex is ever going to go away - it's been with us forever. |
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Heathen
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Post by Heathen on Mar 7, 2019 4:13:30 GMT
We've been discussing this in my home. I have 3 sons and asked each individually what they thought. Very eye opening for me and I'm very proud of each of them and their answers. One question came up and they said I could ask it here. In some states a girl can get an abortion at 16 without parent consent. If the line in the sand is "her body, her choice" then why can they not choose to be a prostitute? Why is that against the law if it's something a girl or woman wants to do with their body? How far do you go with "her body, her choice? It was a great side bar for the conversation and something I didn't have an answer for. I'm still thinking on this, but what are your thoughts? If anyone cares, all three boys believe in her body, her risks, her choice. I actually don't object to the legalization of sex work for adults. I think it would be much safer for sex workers and I don't think payment for sex is ever going to go away - it's been with us forever. I agree. "The world's oldest profession." Legalizing sex work for adults would prevent some trafficking, too. |
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Post by malibou on Mar 7, 2019 4:34:20 GMT
And further more, I have to wonder if this 19 year old boy is in a position to look after a kid for the next 18 years. Me thinks his mother is the entity behind this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 4:56:43 GMT
I worked for a pro-life organization for many years. The most heart-breaking thing I remember is a call concerning a man who desperately wanted his baby to live but the mother was planning an abortion. He was absolutely devastated and wanted to know if he had any rights to block the abortion. As horrible as it was, we had to tell him that the problem was that if there was a legal provision for him to block the abortion, then a men who held his opposite view would also have rights to force an abortion. For that reason, the organization never pursued advocating for father's rights. That call has always hurt my heart. It's just a sucky situation all around.  |
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Post by pjaye on Mar 7, 2019 4:58:10 GMT
I agree. "The world's oldest profession." Legalizing sex work for adults would prevent some trafficking, too. Not really. In most states of Australia some form of prostitution is legal. In the state where I live, brothels are legal but solicitation (street prostitution) is not legal. However we have several well known areas where women are trafficked, mainly from Asian countries and forced into prostitution in illegal brothels. Trafficking is about other people making money from prostitution, not about the women making money for themselves through this. Making one legal will still do nothing to stop the other. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 5:22:26 GMT
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Post by bc2ca on Mar 7, 2019 7:01:39 GMT
I'm slightly intrigued that he is suing the clinic and not his girlfriend. Mostly I'm depressed that the woman's rights are coming in a distant third in this lawsuit. |
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anniebygaslight
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Post by anniebygaslight on Mar 7, 2019 8:40:33 GMT
And what would this teenager have supported this child with? The money from his paper round?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 9:16:36 GMT
I wonder how he would consider what his "rights" would be if the woman died from complications of that pregnancy that he so wants to protect.
If he has the " right" to protect that fetus from the moment of conception,he also has the responsibility of facing any consequences that might occur by the presence of that fetus if the woman died by complications brought on by the pregnancy. Would he be prepared to be charged with Manslaughter........because after all that fetus is half his, according to him ? You can't expect to have it one way and not the other.
Is every Doctor going to be sued in the future by the father of an aborted fetus that might have to be carried out to save the life of a woman?
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Post by cade387 on Mar 7, 2019 9:54:43 GMT
I'm slightly intrigued that he is suing the clinic and not his girlfriend. Mostly I'm depressed that the woman's rights are coming in a distant third in this lawsuit. I was going to post the same thing. That is the only reason I’m also of the opinion that an organization is putting him up to this. They want to go after the clinic and they are using him to their achieve their means. In the end it is her choice. He should have to sue her, not a clinic who provided a legal service to her. Can a boy sue an OBGYN for prescribing birth control if he wants his girlfriend to get pregnant? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 7, 2019 11:52:15 GMT
Alabama has been in the news a lot because their anti-abortion laws keep getting shut down as unconstitutional.
Wouldn’t surprise me if this was another attempt...
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Post by Merge on Mar 7, 2019 11:56:46 GMT
Allowing men to dictate whether or not a woman carries a fetus to term puts us in a position where rapists and abusers could sue to make a woman give birth to their child. No thank you.
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Post by dudleypippen on Mar 7, 2019 12:00:26 GMT
While I think woman’s rights to self determination about her body are the primary concern in this issue, I’m curious as to how he can conclusively prove paternity given the abortion occurred at 6 weeks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 12:30:07 GMT
Do you not understand what a dangerous precedent that would be setting? Too many times the fathers want to raise that child and care for it but the mom, being the one who has to carry the baby to term, wants nothing to do with the pregnancy and has the entire say on what happens.Of course she does, it's her body. Where do you think it will end if men become able to tell a woman what she can and cannot medically do with her own body? Under his fucking eye indeed. |
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What about her wishes? The woman who has to carry the child to term? 
