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Post by susans sister on Oct 4, 2014 18:45:43 GMT
International Brain Research Doctors have found signs of brain function after doing tests on her at Rutgers University. I found the article on Facebook. It could mean a change in the definition of death.
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Post by papersilly on Oct 4, 2014 19:18:07 GMT
hope is the last thing to truly die and this family is really holding out for hope. while they may have found some indications that may be construed as brain function, I think she, on the whole, has passed away. life, to me, is more than just some brain sparks and movement they want to believe is a response to their interaction with her . I just don't know if what they have discovered is enough to be true, meaningful, sustainable life. call me cynical but I think there may also be some ulterior motives on the part of some parties (maybe not the immediate family but some of those who maybe "advising" them).
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,831
Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Oct 4, 2014 19:21:05 GMT
I'm sure that if they just wait long enough, she'll be back to normal someday.
I do feel bad for the family, what is the absolute best outcome they can really expect at this point?
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2014 19:24:13 GMT
hope is the last thing to truly die and this family is really holding out for hope. while they may have found some indications that may be construed as brain function, I think she, on the whole, has passed away. life, to me, is more than just some brain sparks and movement they want to believe is a response to their interaction with her . I just don't know if what they have discovered is enough to be true, meaningful, sustainable life. call me cynical but I think there may also be some ulterior motives on the part of some parties (maybe not the immediate family but some of those who maybe "advising" them).  I'd like to see hours of unedited tape where she constantly responds to the requests accurately, not just edited clips.
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PrettyInPeank
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,691
Jun 25, 2014 21:31:58 GMT
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Post by PrettyInPeank on Oct 4, 2014 19:49:14 GMT
hope is the last thing to truly die and this family is really holding out for hope. while they may have found some indications that may be construed as brain function, I think she, on the whole, has passed away. life, to me, is more than just some brain sparks and movement they want to believe is a response to their interaction with her . I just don't know if what they have discovered is enough to be true, meaningful, sustainable life. call me cynical but I think there may also be some ulterior motives on the part of some parties (maybe not the immediate family but some of those who maybe "advising" them). I never considered ulterior motives being a driving force in this issue. What motives could there be? Just curious. And I agree that even if there is the tiniest of brain spark, it won't change the girl in any significant way. She's already gone sadly. 
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Post by susans sister on Oct 4, 2014 19:50:10 GMT
I hope this does not cause people who have made the difficult decision to stop life support for a relative to second guess themselves. That is a hard enough responsibility with out the added complication of not trusting the medical community's definition of brain death. I too am of the opinion that this poor family is going to be disappointed in the end.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2014 19:58:03 GMT
Not from the family (unless monetary, I suppose, but I do think they just want their daughter back and the guilt to be gone), but rather from the lawyers, specific doctors and foundations, pro-life/religious fanatics, somebody else hoping to cash in
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Post by cadoodlebug on Oct 4, 2014 20:00:47 GMT
hope is the last thing to truly die and this family is really holding out for hope. while they may have found some indications that may be construed as brain function, I think she, on the whole, has passed away. life, to me, is more than just some brain sparks and movement they want to believe is a response to their interaction with her . I just don't know if what they have discovered is enough to be true, meaningful, sustainable life. call me cynical but I think there may also be some ulterior motives on the part of some parties (maybe not the immediate family but some of those who maybe "advising" them). I never considered ulterior motives being a driving force in this issue. What motives could there be? Just curious. And I agree that even if there is the tiniest of brain spark, it won't change the girl in any significant way. She's already gone sadly.  I could be wrong but if she is declared *alive* and they move her back to CA, the state might have to pay for her care. Or so I read. Don't know if that is true.
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luvnlifelady
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Jun 26, 2014 2:34:35 GMT
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Post by luvnlifelady on Oct 4, 2014 20:01:23 GMT
I can't imagine the bills from all this and who is going to wind up paying for them. Most insurances have life-time caps that under these conditions, would come up quickly.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2014 20:05:30 GMT
I can't imagine the bills from all this and who is going to wind up paying for them. Most insurances have life-time caps that under these conditions, would come up quickly. Would it count? I mean is insurance paying right now? I wouldn't think they are since a life-time cap would only be payable if one was a live. I think a private group or something is paying for her care. Perhaps they are trying to recoup some of the money.
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Post by susans sister on Oct 4, 2014 20:06:49 GMT
I believe she is in a Catholic hospital. It may be a charity case.
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Nink
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Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Oct 4, 2014 20:09:52 GMT
I never considered ulterior motives being a driving force in this issue. What motives could there be? Just curious. And I agree that even if there is the tiniest of brain spark, it won't change the girl in any significant way. She's already gone sadly.  I could be wrong but if she is declared *alive* and they move her back to CA, the state might have to pay for her care. Or so I read. Don't know if that is true. I read that too.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 21:35:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 20:19:12 GMT
I wonder if the International Brain research foundation is the one that has been footing the bill in exchange for research access and now they have done all the research from her that they can so they are done funding her support? If she is declared living then insurance or a state will have to take over paying her care.
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Post by jamh on Oct 4, 2014 20:23:33 GMT
I did some Google research on the International Brain Research organization, and here is what I found:
Dr. Philip DeFina--not a medical doctor. Has a Ph.D and does "research." Fired from a Meadowlands Hospital in New Jersey for questionable experiments.
Dr. Jonathan Fellus--is the chief medical officer for IBR but lost his medical license in June,2014.
IBR does not take insurance and calls itself a non-profit, but they take donations from "grateful" and desperate people looking for cures.
JamH
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 21:35:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 20:34:56 GMT
Not from the family (unless monetary, I suppose, but I do think they just want their daughter back and the guilt to be gone), but rather from the lawyers, specific doctors and foundations, pro-life/religious fanatics, somebody else hoping to cash in According to the hospital's ex-spokesman, the family's attorney is trying to boost support for Prop 46 which raises the cap on verdicts from medical malpractice lawsuits. Link to article
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Post by hop2 on Oct 4, 2014 20:35:49 GMT
Well the life guardian foundation has an agenda of their own for sure.
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Post by papersilly on Oct 4, 2014 21:24:34 GMT
I never considered ulterior motives being a driving force in this issue. What motives could there be? Just curious. I don't think there is a shortage of people who want to benefit from this case either in terms of money or fame. there are lawsuits that may be filed, books to be written, interviews given. while respectable news outlets don't pay for interviews, they certainly pay license fees for the use of photos and other materials that can be part of the interviews or news stories. individuals and organizations get free press from this. let's be real here. there are many people riding the coat tails of this story.
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Post by papersilly on Oct 4, 2014 21:26:27 GMT
I did some Google research on the International Brain Research organization, and here is what I found: Dr. Philip DeFina--not a medical doctor. Has a Ph.D and does "research." Fired from a Meadowlands Hospital in New Jersey for questionable experiments. Dr. Jonathan Fellus--is the chief medical officer for IBR but lost his medical license in June,2014. IBR does not take insurance and calls itself a non-profit, but they take donations from "grateful" and desperate people looking for cures. JamH I don't think there is a respectable doctor out there who would associate themselves with bringing this girl back to life. it's another issue with "doctors" like those described above. in my opinion, their history work hurts the family's credibility more than it helps.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Oct 4, 2014 21:38:01 GMT
Thanks for looking up the Brain Institute "doctor" Most of the comments, if not all, on the news are people of Christian faith that believe this is associated to some kind of resurrection. I don't understand which branch of Christianity is, but the church is small ( and in Oakland CA) where she's from.
Some also thought that her face had lots of make up on it, and you could see a line where it stops.
The pictures of her smiling are from before her surgery.
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Post by bingcherry on Oct 4, 2014 21:50:10 GMT
From everything I've read, she's in a private catholic hospital in New Jersey. One article I read said that her bills were being paid by a private foundation. I'm not sure if that means charity or from private donations. I don't know what the laws are for being declared brain dead in California, but in Florida it takes two independent MD's to assess and then they made their determinations. A prominent MD from Stanford was brought in on this case and he was one of the physicians who declared her brain dead.
The family says that she's moving around in her bed which is more than likely the result of autonomic reflexes. It happens. What her parents and family are doing to her is the most selfish you can do to a person. This isn't about Jahi recovering, it's about the families unwillingness to see that their daughter is dead. Disconnect the vent, stop the feeding tubes and let her go.
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Post by stampinbetsy on Oct 4, 2014 22:45:59 GMT
From everything I've read, she's in a private catholic hospital in New Jersey. One article I read said that her bills were being paid by a private foundation. I'm not sure if that means charity or from private donations. I don't know what the laws are for being declared brain dead in California, but in Florida it takes two independent MD's to assess and then they made their determinations. A prominent MD from Stanford was brought in on this case and he was one of the physicians who declared her brain dead. The family says that she's moving around in her bed which is more than likely the result of autonomic reflexes. It happens. What her parents and family are doing to her is the most selfish you can do to a person. This isn't about Jahi recovering, it's about the families unwillingness to see that their daughter is dead. Disconnect the vent, stop the feeding tubes and let her go. I'm fairly sure that when the hospital in California declared her brain dead, they went through this process. I can't remember what I read at that time. It seems like there were several doctors who came in and agreed that she was brain dead. I think this family is feeling extremely guilty for what happened after this poor girl's surgery, and they'll hold on to any hope that she is alive and can recover. It is unfortunate that they didn't face facts months ago.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Oct 4, 2014 23:31:19 GMT
From everything I've read, she's in a private catholic hospital in New Jersey. One article I read said that her bills were being paid by a private foundation. I'm not sure if that means charity or from private donations. I don't know what the laws are for being declared brain dead in California, but in Florida it takes two independent MD's to assess and then they made their determinations. A prominent MD from Stanford was brought in on this case and he was one of the physicians who declared her brain dead. The family says that she's moving around in her bed which is more than likely the result of autonomic reflexes. It happens. What her parents and family are doing to her is the most selfish you can do to a person. This isn't about Jahi recovering, it's about the families unwillingness to see that their daughter is dead. Disconnect the vent, stop the feeding tubes and let her go. Yes, there was more than one doctor that declared her brain dead. And then, if I'm not mistaken, the family requested an independent physician be brought in to evaluate and that's where the Dr. from Stanford came in, who agreed with the other physicians that she was indeed brain dead.
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Post by hop2 on Oct 5, 2014 0:10:04 GMT
Thanks for looking up the Brain Institute "doctor" Most of the comments, if not all, on the news are people of Christian faith that believe this is associated to some kind of resurrection. I don't understand which branch of Christianity is, but the church is small ( and in Oakland CA) where she's from. Some also thought that her face had lots of make up on it, and you could see a line where it stops. The pictures of her smiling are from before her surgery. There are several Christian denominations or groups really with interest in this case mostly because they want the designation of 'brain dead' to be removed from use or deemed illegal. They want 'death' to mean when the heart stops beating and means of sustaining life should not be removed until then. Some groups are even more radical in their thinking, stating that the designation of 'brain dead' has been used to 'harvest' needed human organs for transplant, as if it's always been one huge scam. The 'life guardian foundation' is one of those organizations IMHO
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Post by lumo on Oct 5, 2014 0:23:48 GMT
I'm sorry, but to be perfectly blunt, this case is just gross at this point. I think there was another thread about this where someone asked how desecration of a corpse hasn't been brought into play, and I agree 100%.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 21:35:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 0:44:18 GMT
I'm sorry, but to be perfectly blunt, this case is just gross at this point. I think there was another thread about this where someone asked how desecration of a corpse hasn't been brought into play, and I agree 100%.  What's being done to this poor girl's body is criminal. And, grieving or not, the family is participating, if only by allowing this. Grief is not an excuse for criminal activity.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 21:35:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2014 0:51:14 GMT
My older sister slipped into a coma June 5th. Life support was removed on June 10th. She passed away July 3rd.
The ICU doctor conferred with four other colleagues to determine if she was brain dead. It was a long, drawn out process. I learned doctor's do not just "shoot from the hip" and make the recommendation to pull the plug on a person's life. There are many, many checks and balances in place for patients and families who find themselves in this situation.
A physical body does not start decaying until the body cannot sustain itself - like when life support is removed and nature takes its course. I will say watching someone die over a three week period is something I would never wish on my worst enemy - ever. As long as machine are intact, oxygen is being moved through the lungs and the heart continues to pump blood, a physical body will stay intact.
There is so much I could say about this subject but everyone has their own faiths, beliefs, religions, outlooks, etc. that have a direct bearing on how they would handle this type of situation. This family has chosen their course. May this family continually find unrelenting strength, deep wells of courage, and never-ending resolve for the very long and emotional road ahead.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Oct 5, 2014 0:51:59 GMT
it's very strange, especially for me to understand.
I would hope this should never happen with our child, but being told that she was brain dead I think would be very sad but I would take her off life support.
our child, now an adult, would want a life that has some quality.
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Post by withapea on Oct 5, 2014 0:54:48 GMT
Such a terrible situation. I can understand how distraught the family is and I feel for them but this girl is gone and has been for a long time.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Oct 5, 2014 0:56:57 GMT
pink Shirley, I am so sorry for your loss, and what you had to go through.
Yes, I have learned about the determination of brain death by three doctors/neurologists. lots of different tests need to be performed.
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Post by moveablefeast on Oct 5, 2014 0:58:23 GMT
I was watching the video they released, and I thought, you know, if that was my daughter I would want to do everything I could to get her back, too. She doesn't LOOK dead, and if you don't understand or you are in profound denial you might think she is just comatose. She is in a terrible in-between state. It will be so much better for Jahi when she goes.
But I think my mama's heart understands her mama's heart. My logical brain is able to go where her mama's logical brain isn't ready to go. Because that is not my baby girl.
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