scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,175
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on May 14, 2019 14:08:38 GMT
I know that Ali Express has good prices, but I have never felt comfortable ordering from them. Part of it is because I wonder if some (or all?) of their stuff is copied without permission, and part of it is that I worry about how secure their site is?
Are these just misperceptions on my part?
I feel like I am the only one who has never ordered from them.
Oh, and for the record, I've noticed sellers on Amazon who are either selling blatant copies of scrap stuff, or discontinued items for a super discount. I'm not criticizing anyone who chooses to buy either from Ali Express or from the possibly questionable Amazon sellers. Sometimes it is hard to know who is legit.
One question I have is whether or not any of you have had your card compromised buying from Ali Express?
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penguinpea
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Aug 20, 2014 16:40:52 GMT
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Post by penguinpea on May 14, 2019 14:13:39 GMT
I have never ordered from them either for all the same reasons.
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Post by janamke on May 14, 2019 14:17:26 GMT
I have not and will not order from Ali Express. I try not to buy Chinese made products and certainly not ones that are blatant copies of others work. I desperately want places like Scrapbook.com, A Cherry on Top, Simon Says Stamp and others to stay in business and thrive. So if that means I have less scrapbook supplies because I'm paying their prices so be it.
If I sound a little judgmental, maybe I am. Not angry so much as sad when I see posts about Ali Express.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,611
Jul 11, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
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Post by julie5 on May 14, 2019 14:25:08 GMT
I haven’t. I almost did at Christmas and decided against it. I didn’t feel like buying from unknown to me vendors plus waiting for stuff to arrive.
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basketdiva
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,622
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:09 GMT
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Post by basketdiva on May 14, 2019 14:29:23 GMT
While the prices are tempting, I don't like that the dies are manufactured without permission.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:11:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 14:38:33 GMT
I haven't ordered from them because I can't seem to find anything I want and it just looks like a hot mess. I am not super comfortable ordering from a hotmess company. If they can't get their website/seach info together, how will they manage my order? Plus I did not know that the die images were copied, that is kind of concerning. I don't have many dies, just basic shapes, so even if they were copies, I don't think you can really "copy" a circle lol. I guess too I don't just want to buy junk. So I am nervous that I would order something online that looked cool and then it would get here and be crappy.
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Post by Linda on May 14, 2019 14:42:44 GMT
I haven't ordered from them either - for the same reasons everyone above has mentioned. Plus I just don't order much online in general
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Post by grammadee on May 14, 2019 14:44:59 GMT
You are not alone. I have not ordered from AE either. For all the reasons you mention, scrapnnana. I like to give my money to the LSS or order from companies with which I am familiar. I know I am paying more, but I like to think my $ are keeping a small business going and that some of it goes to the people whose imagination came up with the original designs.
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Post by cbet on May 14, 2019 14:46:47 GMT
I have ordered quite a bit from Ali; not had any issues with my card being compromised. I use a Bluebird reloadable American Express card, so I decide what I'm ordering, transfer the money to the card and then use it right away - even if someone does try to use the card, there's never more than about $2 available on it.
I don't feel guilty at all when I'm ordering basic shapes, nested dies, that sort of thing. I'm also sure that I have a number of copies that I didn't know were copies because I hadn't seen them other than on the Ali site. And, because I'm no saint, I also have some that are copies that I knew darn well were copies because I went looking for them after a severe case of sticker shock. I still do what I can to support the small companies; I probably order as much from them as I ever did. Ali is getting the portion of my crafty spending that used to go to Michaels/Joanns/Hobby Lobby.
I should add - I haven't gotten any dies that were bad quality, but I have heard that the stamps can be iffy (they're not made of the good photopolymer?). I've also ordered a couple of rings from them and was really happy with those. It does take a while to get here, but it's kind of fun getting one of their envelopes in the mail and anticipating what might be in it.
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Post by Tammiem2pnc1 on May 14, 2019 15:07:45 GMT
I order from AE, and I've never had issues with my card being compromised. I do worry about copyright images. There were a couple of dies that I saw on AE that I really really wanted. I searched and searched online and couldn't find them anywhere else, so I ordered them. I also order things like water colors and ink stamps for my mixed media backgrounds. i don't feel like I need anything real high quality for those when 90% of it is being covered up anyway.
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GiantsFan
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,298
Site Supporter
Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on May 14, 2019 15:18:27 GMT
I with you scrapnnana . Maybe three or four years ago I did purchase a set of hexagons from Amazon. I didn't realize at the time that I was buying something that was shipping from Asia. The item took a loooong time to get here and guess what? the hexagon sides were not equal. Like noticeably not equal. That was my first and last purchase from an unknown company. ETA: The purchase mentioned above made me look more at all brands I purchase from Amazon, not just for dies and stamps.
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,936
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on May 14, 2019 15:45:56 GMT
I have ordered dies from AE and have been very happy with the quality. The have been basic shapes like squares, circles, etc which I don’t think have a copyright. I did purchase a stamp once just to confirm that the quality is not good. I have bought other Knick knacks where I am not concerned about the quality. I have bought silver rings at very good prices. The arrival does take a long time but I know that going in. Never had a problem with my CC.
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Post by freeatlast on May 14, 2019 15:57:56 GMT
I feel bad for the stamp companies who first had to deal with having their designs ripped off by the Chinese and now have to fight the lawsuits brought by Sizzix. You can bet I will be supporting these small businesses selling made in America products. I want them to survive!
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Post by missmcd on May 14, 2019 16:12:42 GMT
I have never ordered from them either, for the same reasons. I just don't trust the site to give them my credit information and I'm not a fan of waiting and waiting and waiting for orders to come in.
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Post by mikklynn on May 14, 2019 16:46:51 GMT
I try never to order knockoffs or things directly from China.
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Post by lisacharlotte on May 14, 2019 17:15:21 GMT
I have not and will not order from Ali Express. I try not to buy Chinese made products and certainly not ones that are blatant copies of others work. I desperately want places like Scrapbook.com, A Cherry on Top, Simon Says Stamp and others to stay in business and thrive. So if that means I have less scrapbook supplies because I'm paying their prices so be it. If I sound a little judgmental, maybe I am. Not angry so much as sad when I see posts about Ali Express. We’ve had discussions here before of peas knowingly buying pirated dies. I’ll judge all day long on those peas. I don’t care that you can’t afford the originals from the company. You are purchasing stolen intellectual property. There is no rationalizing that choice. It doesn’t stop at crafting supplies and it does hurt the company bottom line. I’m sure some of those peas will whine and bitch when we lose crafting options when some of those companies go under. It’s craft supplies. You’re not stealing bread to feed your starving children. This is the same reason I pay a premium and buy from my LSS. I want them to stay in business and they can’t do it without customers.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:11:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 17:33:47 GMT
I must be living under a rock. I thought your title referred to Ali Edwards. When I read the replies and saw it was to Ali Express, I confess I had to google it to see what it even was. Never heard of it prior to this. {{crawling back under rock now}}
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 1, 2024 18:11:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2019 17:41:10 GMT
I must be living under a rock. I thought your title referred to Ali Edwards. When I read the replies and saw it was to Ali Express, I confess I had to google it to see what it even was. Never heard of it prior to this. {{crawling back under rock now}} I was also super confused when I first saw the thread, your last Aliexpress crafting order...I thought wait, does Ali Edwards do things other than crafting? (turns out yes, but that is another thread) I have never ordered from Ali Edwards either, so I was VERY confused and kept mixing up the two. I also will go back under my rock. That is where Unity Stamps and Steve Duncan live, lol!
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Post by KikiPea on May 14, 2019 17:44:35 GMT
Nope, and I really have no plans to, unless there is something I'm just DYING to have.
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Post by LisaDV on May 14, 2019 17:47:49 GMT
I have searched AE several times with the intention of buying some cheaper supplies, but in the end never do, because of those reasons. I don't usually know/see things from other companies unless it's been shown here. How would I know if it's pirated. I don't trust them with my cc. Although I do have a card to put money on for online purchases, it still freaks me out.
I did order cheap dies from Amazon a couple of years ago, didn't even think about it. Probably because it's Amazon. They came in packages from China. Haven't ordered since.
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christinec68
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,135
Location: New York, NY
Jun 26, 2014 18:02:19 GMT
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Post by christinec68 on May 14, 2019 18:08:44 GMT
I ordered from Wish once which is kind of similar. Nothing copyrighted - stitched square and circle die sets. I received 2 square sets and never bothered with it again.
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Post by riversong1963 on May 14, 2019 18:48:05 GMT
I will not buy from Ali Express on principle.
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pancakes
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,993
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
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Post by pancakes on May 14, 2019 19:24:15 GMT
Never had issues with my card. And why would they steal your information? They would lose site users if they did that. And like many platforms, I don't think the sellers see your CC info -- Ali Express manages the payment part of the process. Or if encryption and security is your concern, why wouldn't they ensure they have similar encryption levels to other vendors? They don't want a leak either, because that ruins their credibility.
I think there's a fear that ordering things from foreign countries, especially Asian ones, will result in these issues. The fact is, though, they're incentivized as a business, and one trying to reach a global dominance at that, to ensure these issues don't happen.
When it comes to copyright issues, though, that's a different story. I don't order dies or stamps off of Ali Express and generally try to avoid copied products.
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Post by Prenticekid on May 14, 2019 19:30:00 GMT
I have not. IMO, buying stolen designs is the same as stealing them yourself. Besides, its like biting the hand that feeds you. If we aren't paying for the real thing, then the actual designer/company is missing out on the money to be able to produce more products for us to buy.
I also know people who are regularly "stolen" from in this way and others. It is hurtful to them. And, I'm not talking just their wallets.. One is an artist who has had his designs ripped off and put on fabric, cell phone covers, etc. Every time it happens, he is sad and hurt, and he also has to pay an attorney to go after the thieves. He has to spend time, money and energy trying to get the pirated products off shelves.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on May 14, 2019 19:46:02 GMT
I've never ordered from there, either. I've purchased dies from oddball, one-off type Amazon sellers that came from China, but I feel a little better about that because at least I have protections through Amazon.
I've bought the dies not actually knowing that they're Chinese sellers (although the prices kind of give it away, I guess) until after I've checked out... and not knowing whether it's a knockoff. There's no way for me to know whether the die they're selling is actually a copy of someone else's design or not, and I don't feel bad about that. If the 'real' company doesn't want the Chinese seller to be selling their designs, they'd stop it.
ETA: I don't do a lot of online shopping in general, though- I also want my LSS to stay open, so most of my die and embossing folder purchases are either from the SB store, TM, or the big-box craft stores.
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,175
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on May 14, 2019 20:27:27 GMT
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all the comments.
I will not knowingly buy a pirated design. I have strong feelings about copyright infringement, for all the reasons others have listed in this thread.
However, I'm not going to judge those who buy from the Chinese companies, because in some cases, the item is no longer being sold by anyone else, so it is hard to know if it is a close out of inventory (since a lot of craft companies use Chinese manufacturing), or blatantly pirated. I've seen some items on Amazon, obviously coming from China based on shipping times, but they were items not being sold elsewhere as far as I could tell. There have also been designs that I recognized. In one case, I saw a Chinese company selling dies on Amazon (for very cheap) that I knew were Heartfelt Creations dies. I contacted HC, but their reply was interesting. They did not seem concerned. I think they did not want to deal with the legal hassles. They retired those dies soon after. I am sure it is a huge problem for many companies, both small and large.
Awhile back, I bought a wood plank stamp from Amazon. I also bought the Stampin' Up wood plank stamp, even though it seemed similar and was considerably more expensive. When I compared the two stamps side by side, they weren't just similar, they were the exact same stamp. The one from China was slightly smaller, but the stamp design was exactly the same. Since SU was still selling the stamp, I knew it was pirated, and I have been a lot more wary since.
I do have to do most of my shopping online. I don't live near any LSS.
I think I will just assume that items with a long shipping time are probably knock offs and steer clear of them, whether sold on Amazon or Ali Express. Like many others here, I want to support the small, legitimate craft businesses. They have a hard enough time surviving as it is.
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Post by streetscrapper on May 15, 2019 1:15:52 GMT
Oh the great AE ethical debate... Is it right to buy a product that you know full well is being pirated? No. Can I "afford" to buy the product at full price? Yes I can. Do I want to support local small businesses, or just small businesses in general? Of course, 100% Do I? Yes I do. But, I also have a couple of reason for buying, or not buying from AE.
Generally I don't buy stamps. In most cases, the quality doesn't come close, however AE has come a long way since I first heard about them and depending on the seller, the stamps aren't half bad. I will buy a stamp set that I like knowing full well that I will only it use a handful of times. In fact, I bought a set from AE last year that I used to make 50+ Christmas cards but will never use again. It worked perfectly, held up great and now I'm done with it. I don't have any friends or family that scrapbook or make cards so the set is finished for me. Best $5 I spent. Stamp sets I really like and know will get a lot of use, I won't buy from AE. One-offs, cutsie crap, yes I will buy that.
Dies, well I tend to buy a lot of those. I'm a little bit addicted to wafer thin dies and I admit that I purchase more of them from AE than stamps. For example, Birch Press Layering Dies can cost more than $75 for a set of 3. Is that nuts? Umm, yes. Can I "afford" that? Yes. Am I stupid? No.
I AM definitely a supporter of small businesses, but I also hate to be "gouged" or "ripped off". And very often when I see the price of something new, whether it be a stamp or a die, I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. Let's face it, the talk about the high cost of scrapping supplies has been out there for a very long time. We tend to buy the newest, latest and greatest stuff because someone says we need it or it gets a good review. Then it sits in a drawer, unopened in the original packaging and ends up in the donation bin or on a table at a garage sale. It's happened to me too many times, and I'm not someone interested in "recouping" my cost so I "donate". So at the end of the day, if you choose to buy from AE, more power to you. And if you don't, no need to judge, just don't.
As for being secure, I use my credit card and I have NEVER had an issue.
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Post by Embri on May 15, 2019 2:07:01 GMT
I know that Ali Express has good prices, but I have never felt comfortable ordering from them. Part of it is because I wonder if some (or all?) of their stuff is copied without permission, and part of it is that I worry about how secure their site is? Are these just misperceptions on my part? I feel like I am the only one who has never ordered from them. Oh, and for the record, I've noticed sellers on Amazon who are either selling blatant copies of scrap stuff, or discontinued items for a super discount. I'm not criticizing anyone who chooses to buy either from Ali Express or from the possibly questionable Amazon sellers. Sometimes it is hard to know who is legit. One question I have is whether or not any of you have had your card compromised buying from Ali Express? You're completely entitled to avoid AliExpress - I know a lot of folks don't buy there because of the copyright thing. YES, most of the dies sold there are copies or even produced in the same factory as the official stuff 'off the clock'. You can get dies that are 1st party (aka not copies), but most shops feature a mix of copies and not. Most of the dies sold on Amazon (and Wish, and GearBest, and all the other sites that offer 'free international shipping', pretty much) are from the same sellers, and are in fact the same product you'd get direct from AliExpress. They're either alternate accounts of those sellers, or drop-shippers. Personally the copy thing doesn't bother me. America's never done me any favours, and I feel no need to support its companies when 99% of them don't even try to offer reasonable international postage rates and overprice their wares. I'm pragmatic; I can better afford AliExpress, and it makes my limited budget cover almost everything I would like. I've never had a problem with my card in the multiple years I've been buying from them. Every payment has been accurate, so was every refund. Like eBay, AliExpress doesn't give your payment details out to the individual sellers (who are far less honest and far less incentivized to protect their reputation).
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Post by artisticscrapper on May 15, 2019 2:23:13 GMT
I’ve never bought from AE for all the same reasons mentioned in the above posts. I’ve thought about buying a few generic shape dies but thats it. I couldn’t buy knock offs since to me that’s stealing. I know if I were making a living as a designer I’d be furious if someone ripped off my images and profited from my hard work. Besides, I’m another person who wants to supports what’s left of the companies designing and selling items for our craft.
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Post by Embri on May 15, 2019 2:35:47 GMT
Even if every 'legitimate' (and I use the word loosely) die manufacturer in the western world were to disappear overnight, I doubt AliExpress would do anything but thrive. They already produce lots of dies based off of vector illustrations, both paid and free to use, and that would only increase dramatically as they became the only game in town. They also have partnerships with individual designers to make new products already, and churn them out at both an impressive price and speed. The only things in danger are the companies who have historically served as middleman between the designer, manufacturer, and customer. There will always be an ample supply of fresh die designs and talented designers who no longer need the likes of Sizzix or SU! to get their stuff to market.
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