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Post by mikklynn on May 21, 2019 15:43:14 GMT
I would just tell her I reconsidered it and do not feel comfortable.
Repeat as necessary if she won't take no for an answer.
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588
Jun 25, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
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Post by peabrain on May 21, 2019 16:31:37 GMT
By chance was she interviewing for another job those 2 hrs?
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,797
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on May 21, 2019 17:03:48 GMT
she showed up, just 2 hours late. Did she say why she was late? Do you think she had an interview for another position?
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,387
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on May 21, 2019 17:35:38 GMT
This. That said... is your concern that she isn't suited to high school or that she can't teach? I recall an acquaintance of mine got a reference saying specifically that she would be a great Educational Assistant, vs saying she'd be good in any of the para-support roles (she wanted a child & youth care job and the guy specifically didn't mention that role). You could share her strengths and where you think she would best serve. isnt it the last few days of school? If so, movies are normal here. Can't really teach new material - it's mark cut off. she is not a good hs teacher. She used to be at elementary and maybe that would be better. Honestly I thought she sucked at teaching most of the year, but she did forge good relationships with my students and I appreciate that. Also staff that doesn't need to work directly with her like her. Those of us in the hallway or who have cotaught with her have the same opinion as me. Students are taking finals this week. Even if she isnt covering new material, she should be reviewing and helping them review for other classes (two classes are intervention type classes). I'm almost positive she wont be giving then finals. Fair point about the finals. My one thing I would keep in mind is that as much as it sucks, sometimes it's these kind of incompetent people who know how to move up the ranks. You don't necessarily want to piss her off in case she one day she has power over you. So weigh that in your decision.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on May 21, 2019 18:00:51 GMT
IMO, giving a letter of recommendation may signal that you support that person's hiring, no matter what you include or don't include that should tip a hiring manager off to the truth. Let's say that you give her a letter and she is hired but stinks at the new job. The following year, you decide you want a change and apply at the same school. Your name sounds familiar, so the hiring manager searches and realizes you recommended this person. Now, your judgement may be questioned, and all you were trying to do was be nice!
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Post by katiekaty on May 22, 2019 0:25:28 GMT
What would you want her to do for you if you were in that situation? Some days just suck, you know? Especially knowing she is being terminated at the end of the year. And school is pretty much done, grades are in. Everyone reacts differently. Gently remind her that you are there if she needs to talk, but don’t abandon her on just the behavior of a few days. You may need her next year as a reference, you never know what the future may bring!
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Post by SockMonkey on May 22, 2019 0:39:53 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. Letters of rec are required here. I wouldn’t write it. I look at it like this - My name is on that. It’s my vote of confidence in the person. If I wouldn’t hire them, I won’t recommend them. Sometimes I have students ask for letters of rec and if I can’t write them one in good conscience I say, “I think you want to ask someone else who can speak to your skills better.”
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Post by ~summer~ on May 22, 2019 1:12:22 GMT
How long have you worked with her? Perhaps just st ignore the past week and focus on the other years. That being said - you can be a star employee for ten years and if you act like a jerk your last two weeks - THAT IS ALL PEOPLE REMEMBER Always be extra polite and helpful as you walk out the door...(unless of course you are retiring for good and don’t care what anyone thinks
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Post by freecharlie on May 22, 2019 2:16:40 GMT
To address a couple of things. This was her first year at our school. We arent supposed to be done teaching yet. Finals are this week. The day I posted she missed her first 3 classes. Luckily she had plan one of those hours, I covered one and another teacher had to cover the second. She didnt call or text and didnt respond to me when I did. Only when a coworker that is her friend called did she answer and then say she was on her way.
I've decided I'm not going to write it. If she asks again I will tell her based on the last week and a half, I no longer feel comfortable putting my name out there.
Letters of recommendations are definitely part of the application process around here. Principals also follow up with a phone call.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,798
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on May 22, 2019 4:16:16 GMT
We just finished interviewing for a job at my school. 3 letters were required and the interview panel did read them. Really? I'm curious. Wondering if this is a regional thing (I'm in Texas) or an urban/rural thing (my experience is in large, urban districts). Also wondering if the interview panel followed up with any of the letter writers to make sure they were, in fact, the writers of the letter. I've been working in education in Texas for 14 years and have never been asked to provide a letter of recommendation. Only names/emails/phone numbers for references. One problem with requiring letters of rec is that the applicant must inform his/her supervisors that they are looking for a new position before any position has been offered. That's something many teachers, at least, are not willing to do, especially in a right to work state where your principal can easily retaliate by non-renewing you - and then you may end up not getting offered the new job. Typically personal references are requested after an offer has been made, which removes the danger. There is also the issue that many districts have adopted policies that prevent principals from stating anything other that the applicant is eligible for rehire. That's not to say that more detailed, off-the-record references don't happen over the phone, but I don't know a single principal who would put more detailed information in writing. There is too much potential legal liability. I’m in CA. The district I’m in is rural. We have followed up with letter writers before. This time around we had personal experience with one of the applicants so we didn’t need to go to letters. Personal references are checked after interviews are conducted and before a contract is offered. In CA teachers have union protection and are considered “permanent” after the 2nd year. Most teachers give their admin a heads up if they’re looking elsewhere. Not having a recommendation from your admin is kind of a red flag. Yep, can’t say anything bad. However, things can be worded as such to convey the same message.
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Post by flanz on May 22, 2019 5:34:53 GMT
I would tell her that based on how she is currently behaving in a unprofessional manner I am no longer able to write the requested letter. exactly this!
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lurkyloo
Full Member
Posts: 284
Dec 5, 2018 6:53:08 GMT
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Post by lurkyloo on May 22, 2019 5:47:55 GMT
“I’m not going to be able to help you, sorry.”
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588
Jun 25, 2014 22:18:04 GMT
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Post by peabrain on May 22, 2019 9:49:42 GMT
To address a couple of things. This was her first year at our school. We arent supposed to be done teaching yet. Finals are this week. The day I posted she missed her first 3 classes. Luckily she had plan one of those hours, I covered one and another teacher had to cover the second. She didnt call or text and didnt respond to me when I did. Only when a coworker that is her friend called did she answer and then say she was on her way. I've decided I'm not going to write it. If she asks again I will tell her based on the last week and a half, I no longer feel comfortable putting my name out there. Letters of recommendations are definitely part of the application process around here. Principals also follow up with a phone call. Can I ask since I’m not a teacher? Does she answer to you in the chain of command at the school? I don’t know the pc way to put it so I apologize if that’s coming out wrong. I totally get that you had to cover for her but my question is, if she took time off, did she let her supervisor know? Are you her supervisor? I understand that you’ve made up your mind and probably won’t change it. I’m just trying to understand it at this point I guess. Thank you.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,091
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on May 22, 2019 10:52:24 GMT
A couple of thoughts:
If you don’t feel you can write a favorable letter, don’t.
Are subs hard to get where you are? They are here. Is it possible she requested a sub and one was not available? Just last week we had a teacher absent and no outside sub picked it up. A couple of times during the day teachers found students hanging out in the hall outside her locked room with no sub. Legitimate absence. Lack of subs.
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Post by freecharlie on May 22, 2019 12:44:11 GMT
To address a couple of things. This was her first year at our school. We arent supposed to be done teaching yet. Finals are this week. The day I posted she missed her first 3 classes. Luckily she had plan one of those hours, I covered one and another teacher had to cover the second. She didnt call or text and didnt respond to me when I did. Only when a coworker that is her friend called did she answer and then say she was on her way. I've decided I'm not going to write it. If she asks again I will tell her based on the last week and a half, I no longer feel comfortable putting my name out there. Letters of recommendations are definitely part of the application process around here. Principals also follow up with a phone call. Can I ask since I’m not a teacher? Does she answer to you in the chain of command at the school? I don’t know the pc way to put it so I apologize if that’s coming out wrong. I totally get that you had to cover for her but my question is, if she took time off, did she let her supervisor know? Are you her supervisor? I understand that you’ve made up your mind and probably won’t change it. I’m just trying to understand it at this point I guess. Thank you. I'm department head. Her class is next door to mine. Time off goes through our vice principal. Nobody knew she wasn't coming. She didn't put in for a sub. She just slept in or something and her attitude is "what are they going to do, fire me?"
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Post by freecharlie on May 22, 2019 12:45:26 GMT
A couple of thoughts: If you don’t feel you can write a favorable letter, don’t. Are subs hard to get where you are? They are here. Is it possible she requested a sub and one was not available? Just last week we had a teacher absent and no outside sub picked it up. A couple of times during the day teachers found students hanging out in the hall outside her locked room with no sub. Legitimate absence. Lack of subs. yes, subs are hard to get, although we are in a no leave period. If a sub can't be found our building secretary class staff to see who can cover on plan.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,797
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on May 22, 2019 15:58:59 GMT
Wow. I've decided I'm not going to write it. If she asks again I will tell her based on the last week and a half, I no longer feel comfortable putting my name out there. This is exactly what I would do too. I kind of hope she does ask you again so you can tell her this and she can see that her actions have an effect.
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Post by meridon on May 22, 2019 22:00:28 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. We just finished interviewing for a job at my school. 3 letters were required and the interview panel did read them. I'm relocating to a different part of the country and have applied in about 8 different districts so far (and counting! why do they each have to have their own separate system?!) . As part of the online app for each, I've had to submit references AND 2 or 3 letters of recommendation. So depending on where you are in the country, yes, getting letters is still very much the norm. Granted, I'd expect that whoever wrote the letter would also be called by admin or HR as part of the process.
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Post by 950nancy on May 22, 2019 22:04:16 GMT
To address a couple of things. This was her first year at our school. We arent supposed to be done teaching yet. Finals are this week. The day I posted she missed her first 3 classes. Luckily she had plan one of those hours, I covered one and another teacher had to cover the second. She didnt call or text and didnt respond to me when I did. Only when a coworker that is her friend called did she answer and then say she was on her way. I've decided I'm not going to write it. If she asks again I will tell her based on the last week and a half, I no longer feel comfortable putting my name out there.Letters of recommendations are definitely part of the application process around here. Principals also follow up with a phone call. I think that is fair and commend you for having the integrity to say it!
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,709
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on May 22, 2019 22:17:18 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. I’ve worked in three districts in three states, from rural to suburban to one of the largest districts in the US. LOR’s were required for all of them.
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Post by Merge on May 22, 2019 22:39:53 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. I’ve worked in three districts in three states, from rural to suburban to one of the largest districts in the US. LOR’s were required for all of them. That's so weird to me! It seems very outdated. But clearly my experience is not universal! Do teachers in other states really have no concern about telling their admin they're looking around without a job offer in hand?
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