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Post by freecharlie on May 21, 2019 1:08:03 GMT
The other teacher in my department is not being renewed (and she shouldn't be as she was not a good fit for high school) and she asked me for a letter. There were some good things about her so I told her yes and figured I'd try to write it in a neutral leaning positive tone.
Since last Monday, I don't think she has done much of anything with the students and I am pretty sure they've been watching movies. Then today, I had to take her class because she did not come to work on time and they were sitting in the hallway.
I don't want to write the letter now. I get being pissed off and dejected that you are essentially being fired, but I have a huge problem with the movies and missing a class and I've had it.
So now what? Wait it out and see if she asks me again? Write one with a neutral negative tone?
I could just tell her how it is, but there are only a handful of days left and I'd rather not deal with her.
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Post by christine58 on May 21, 2019 1:10:57 GMT
So now what? Wait it out and see if she asks me again? Write one with a neutral negative tone? I could just tell her how it is, but there are only a handful of days left and I'd rather not deal with her. I would not write one. The only ones I ever wrote as a teacher was for my student teachers. |
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seaexplore
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Post by seaexplore on May 21, 2019 1:13:16 GMT
I would tell her that based on how she is currently behaving in a unprofessional manner I am no longer able to write the requested letter.
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on May 21, 2019 1:16:09 GMT
I would tell her that based on how she is currently behaving in a unprofessional manner I am no longer able to write the requested letter. This. I’d be honest and say this. She really shot herself in the foot by not leaving on professional terms, involuntary termination or not. |
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Post by annabella on May 21, 2019 1:18:08 GMT
I would text her and ask if she’s not planning to finish the year out? She may have her side of the story. How administration treated her, that the learning schedule is over for the year, etc. at least hear what she says.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on May 21, 2019 1:29:39 GMT
I would text her and ask if she’s not planning to finish the year out? She may have her side of the story. How administration treated her, that the learning schedule is over for the year, etc. at least hear what she says. The learning scheadule may be done but OP had to take on her class, in other words, had to take on extra work. Her actions affect kids and colleagues. |
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Post by freecharlie on May 21, 2019 1:38:34 GMT
I would text her and ask if she’s not planning to finish the year out? She may have her side of the story. How administration treated her, that the learning schedule is over for the year, etc. at least hear what she says. she showed up, just 2 hours late. And I must say I am irked that she is getting paid for our contract time and isn't fulfilling her contract |
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samantha25
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Post by samantha25 on May 21, 2019 1:39:52 GMT
I would consider telling her that after witnessing the current situation the letter recommendation I write may be neutral and not glowing and she may want to consider another reference.
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Post by femalebusiness on May 21, 2019 2:01:38 GMT
I would tell her that based on how she is currently behaving in a unprofessional manner I am no longer able to write the requested letter. This, and I would add it is okay to be pissed and try to screw over the ones not renewing you but it is never, ever okay to shortchange the students. |
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Post by 950nancy on May 21, 2019 2:32:17 GMT
I feel for you. I have been asked to do the same thing in a similar (but not as bad) situation. I wrote a letter. I included her strengths. I did not include classroom management or attendance/promptness. My friend is a principal and she always says that what you don't say in your letter speaks louder than what you do say. I have also been called as a reference and have had to give pretty curt answers that also tip off the hiring principal without saying anything bad.
I'd say write the letter with same amount of effort she has given her class. My guess is she won't have the chesticles to challenge or use your letter.
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Post by mom on May 21, 2019 3:03:03 GMT
I would probably text her and say that after giving this some thought, that I am probably not the best person to write her recommendation. Then leave it at that.
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on May 21, 2019 5:24:54 GMT
My suggestion is to simply text her that due to an unexpected change in your schedule, you no longer have time to write a proper recommendation. If she pushes, express your regrets & wish her well in her future endeavors. No further explanation needed.
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Post by leftturnonly on May 21, 2019 5:51:21 GMT
It's the end of the school year. You might not like what she's done this week, but what about the rest of the year? If there's anything from the rest of the year that you can honestly include in a recommendation, write the recommendation and be done with it. If you don't think she should continue as a teacher, tell her that recommendations are typically written by people in a more supervisory position, you've reconsidered, you're sorry but you no longer think it's a good idea. |
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Post by leftturnonly on May 21, 2019 5:52:26 GMT
My suggestion is to simply text her that due to an unexpected change in your schedule, you no longer have time to write a proper recommendation. Or that! |
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Post by nlwilkins on May 21, 2019 7:11:38 GMT
If you write anything, some people may take that as a reccomendation. Even a neutral letter means you were willing to put yourself out there to help her get hired. Is that what you want? Do you think she is a good teacher and would be an asset to any school? If not, then don't write anything. Just tell her since her actions have added to your workload you no longer have time to write a letter.
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cycworker
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Post by cycworker on May 21, 2019 7:21:49 GMT
It's the end of the school year. You might not like what she's done this week, but what about the rest of the year? If there's anything from the rest of the year that you can honestly include in a recommendation, write the recommendation and be done with it. If you don't think she should continue as a teacher, tell her that recommendations are typically written by people in a more supervisory position, you've reconsidered, you're sorry but you no longer think it's a good idea. This. That said... is your concern that she isn't suited to high school or that she can't teach? I recall an acquaintance of mine got a reference saying specifically that she would be a great Educational Assistant, vs saying she'd be good in any of the para-support roles (she wanted a child & youth care job and the guy specifically didn't mention that role). You could share her strengths and where you think she would best serve. isnt it the last few days of school? If so, movies are normal here. Can't really teach new material - it's mark cut off. |
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Post by mustlovecats on May 21, 2019 11:46:30 GMT
My suggestion is to simply text her that due to an unexpected change in your schedule, you no longer have time to write a proper recommendation. If she pushes, express your regrets & wish her well in her future endeavors. No further explanation needed. I agree with this. |
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Post by disneypal on May 21, 2019 12:05:37 GMT
Wait it out and see if she asks me again? That is what I would do - I wouldn't write one or bring it up. If she asks again, and if you decide to write one, I would keep it generic, "I worked with Jane at XYZ school for X years, where she was a teacher that taught X" - just the facts. |
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peabay
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Post by peabay on May 21, 2019 12:16:18 GMT
I feel for you. I have been asked to do the same thing in a similar (but not as bad) situation. I wrote a letter. I included her strengths. I did not include classroom management or attendance/promptness. My friend is a principal and she always says that what you don't say in your letter speaks louder than what you do say. I have also been called as a reference and have had to give pretty curt answers that also tip off the hiring principal without saying anything bad. I'd say write the letter with same amount of effort she has given her class. My guess is she won't have the chesticles to challenge or use your letter. I agree. I would do the same. Damn with faint praise. |
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Post by freecharlie on May 21, 2019 12:47:29 GMT
It's the end of the school year. You might not like what she's done this week, but what about the rest of the year? If there's anything from the rest of the year that you can honestly include in a recommendation, write the recommendation and be done with it. If you don't think she should continue as a teacher, tell her that recommendations are typically written by people in a more supervisory position, you've reconsidered, you're sorry but you no longer think it's a good idea. This. That said... is your concern that she isn't suited to high school or that she can't teach? I recall an acquaintance of mine got a reference saying specifically that she would be a great Educational Assistant, vs saying she'd be good in any of the para-support roles (she wanted a child & youth care job and the guy specifically didn't mention that role). You could share her strengths and where you think she would best serve. isnt it the last few days of school? If so, movies are normal here. Can't really teach new material - it's mark cut off. she is not a good hs teacher. She used to be at elementary and maybe that would be better. Honestly I thought she sucked at teaching most of the year, but she did forge good relationships with my students and I appreciate that. Also staff that doesn't need to work directly with her like her. Those of us in the hallway or who have cotaught with her have the same opinion as me. Students are taking finals this week. Even if she isnt covering new material, she should be reviewing and helping them review for other classes (two classes are intervention type classes). I'm almost positive she wont be giving then finals. |
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Post by tentoes on May 21, 2019 13:12:35 GMT
If you write anything, some people may take that as a reccomendation. Even a neutral letter means you were willing to put yourself out there to help her get hired. Is that what you want? Do you think she is a good teacher and would be an asset to any school? If not, then don't write anything. Just tell her since her actions have added to your workload you no longer have time to write a letter. I agree with this one!! People write letters of reccomendation and it just takes a poor teacher and places them in another school. That school then has to accomodate a bad teacher. Our children need GOOD teachers. This lady doesn't sound like she has it in her! |
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Post by Merge on May 21, 2019 13:14:03 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you.
Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you.
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Post by auntkelly on May 21, 2019 13:25:37 GMT
I would text her and ask if she’s not planning to finish the year out? She may have her side of the story. How administration treated her, that the learning schedule is over for the year, etc. at least hear what she says. she showed up, just 2 hours late. And I must say I am irked that she is getting paid for our contract time and isn't fulfilling her contract Two hours late!!! I assumed you were talking about ten minutes! (It would still be unprofessional to be 10 minutes late, but not the end of the world if that is the only time it happened. There is no excuse for being two hours late unless it was a true emergency and the teacher could not get to the phone. i can be a pushover, but I wouldn’t write a letter of recommendation for a teacher who showed up to school two hours late without a valid excuse. I hope she did you a huge favor in return for covering her classes! |
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seaexplore
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Post by seaexplore on May 21, 2019 13:59:57 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. We just finished interviewing for a job at my school. 3 letters were required and the interview panel did read them. |
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peabrain
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Post by peabrain on May 21, 2019 14:03:29 GMT
What would you want her to do for you if you were in that situation?
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Post by Merge on May 21, 2019 14:26:48 GMT
Are letters of recommendation really a thing for teachers up there? I've never needed one. It's more common to be asked for references who are then either called by HR or asked to fill out an online survey about you. Even more common is for the hiring principal to call their friend, your current/previous principal, and ask what's up with you. Anyone can forge a letter, is my point. Perhaps your colleague doesn't realize that letters of recommendation aren't really a thing any more - and that might be your out. Let her know that you're sure her next interviewer will want phone/email references rather than a letter, and that they're most likely to want them from a former supervisor, and that's not you. We just finished interviewing for a job at my school. 3 letters were required and the interview panel did read them. Really? I'm curious. Wondering if this is a regional thing (I'm in Texas) or an urban/rural thing (my experience is in large, urban districts). Also wondering if the interview panel followed up with any of the letter writers to make sure they were, in fact, the writers of the letter. I've been working in education in Texas for 14 years and have never been asked to provide a letter of recommendation. Only names/emails/phone numbers for references. One problem with requiring letters of rec is that the applicant must inform his/her supervisors that they are looking for a new position before any position has been offered. That's something many teachers, at least, are not willing to do, especially in a right to work state where your principal can easily retaliate by non-renewing you - and then you may end up not getting offered the new job. Typically personal references are requested after an offer has been made, which removes the danger. There is also the issue that many districts have adopted policies that prevent principals from stating anything other that the applicant is eligible for rehire. That's not to say that more detailed, off-the-record references don't happen over the phone, but I don't know a single principal who would put more detailed information in writing. There is too much potential legal liability. |
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Post by annabella on May 21, 2019 15:08:06 GMT
she showed up, just 2 hours late. And I must say I am irked that she is getting paid for our contract time and isn't fulfilling her contract Did you ask if she had a doctors appointment? |
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Post by 950nancy on May 21, 2019 15:09:19 GMT
If you write anything, some people may take that as a reccomendation. Even a neutral letter means you were willing to put yourself out there to help her get hired. Is that what you want? Do you think she is a good teacher and would be an asset to any school? If not, then don't write anything. Just tell her since her actions have added to your workload you no longer have time to write a letter. I agree with this one!! People write letters of reccomendation and it just takes a poor teacher and places them in another school. That school then has to accomodate a bad teacher. Our children need GOOD teachers. This lady doesn't sound like she has it in her! People do get letters. What matters is what you say in them. I have had six student teachers and it is expected that I write letters of recommendations. What you say in them is really more important than just having written one. A mediocre letter means that a principal will call you and ask about the things you left off of the letter. I have had dozens of calls from principals asking about specifics. In our district, principals cannot go by letters of recommendations. They must make the calls to all of the people who wrote letters. |
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Post by 950nancy on May 21, 2019 15:13:36 GMT
If you write anything, some people may take that as a reccomendation. Even a neutral letter means you were willing to put yourself out there to help her get hired. Is that what you want? Do you think she is a good teacher and would be an asset to any school? If not, then don't write anything. Just tell her since her actions have added to your workload you no longer have time to write a letter. I agree with this one!! People write letters of reccomendation and it just takes a poor teacher and places them in another school. That school then has to accomodate a bad teacher. Our children need GOOD teachers. This lady doesn't sound like she has it in her! You can write a letter and leave out classroom management. That is the kiss of death around here. People won't even get interviews if their letters don't include strong praise about classroom management. The reason bad teachers get hired again (in some cases) is because there is a teacher shortage and better candidates just aren't applying. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 21, 2019 15:27:49 GMT
"Letter of recommendation? Sorry I was going to work on that Monday morning, but I had to take over your class when you didn't show up. I just can't squeeze it in."
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